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What a skydiving stunt and the public’s reaction says about insubordination and rule under Thailand’s new king.
The difference between royals and ordinary mortals is that royal bodies are highly charged, carrying serious political and cultural meanings.
Twenty-first century Thailand is a perfect storm of insanity as the new king and his subjects relentlessly push at mutually acknowledged lines of risk and insubordination. A near-comic junta leader mediates between the two, arbitrarily enforcing the kingdom’s lese-majeste laws, scaring the bejesus out of everyone.
Or nearly everyone.
The latest story to circulate in Bangkok society is that the king, afflicted with insomnia, headed for Don Muang Airport in the middle of the night to go tandem sky-diving with his latest “serving maid”; her naked, him not.
The supposed serving maid of the hour is a former representative of Thai Airways, a longtime hunting ground and sexual preserve of then Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn.
Instead of calming down and settling into his new role, the king formerly known as Sia O — a play on words and title that connotes a wealthy Chinese gangster — would seem to be taking ever greater risks, sexual and otherwise.
No sooner had he accepted the throne than Maha Vajiralongkorn, whose real name means “adorned with jewels or thunderbolts,” demanded two prerogatives exercised by Siamese despots of the past: the right to appoint the Supreme Patriarch of the Buddhist Sangha, and the right to determine the conditions of the regency.
More importantly, through the exercise of hereditary ritual prerogatives he implicitly claimed the right to name his own heir apparent and restructure his line of descent. In so doing, he reasserts his right to discard inconvenient wives and offspring at will: to determine which bodies are royal and which are not, treating royal and non-royal bodies alike with casual disregard — his calling card.
Equally doxic (unspoken, taken-for granted), he revitalised his harem, occupants of which in days past were aptly termed the “forbidden ladies” (nang ham) of the Inner Palace (wang nai). Sex and power being intricately linked, His Majesty’s persistent introduction of new “serving maids” (nang sanong) into his ritual entourage, smack in the face of a grieving nation, and the latest rumoured sexcapade say it all.
The exact purpose of his behaviour, no one knows. What is known is that speaking of the above incurs instant risk for everyone else. This is particularly true of members of his inner circle, who suffer from an alarmingly high mortality rate. Which is the point. However outrageous, the skydiving story rings true for a multitude of reasons.
First and foremost would be Maha Vajiralongkorn’s well-known affinities for sex, sport, flying and flight attendants, plus the near “absolute power” (amnat detkat) he exercises over Thai Airways, the parent company and dominant shareholder of which is the Ministry of Finance. Included therein would be his free use of the kingdom’s municipal facilities, particularly its airports.
Added to this is his degradation of women and royal servants in general, demonstrated by tales of Foo Foo, the mandatory “904” military haircuts in the royal household, and the political persecution of ex-wife Srirasmi and her family.
In Thailand, prostitution is a huge tourist draw; sexually suggestive images characterise tourist advertising in general. If golf caddies doubled as sex workers at the height of the golf craze, it is no huge leap to make similar assumptions about more contemporary (youth-associated) sports like tandem skydiving.
Much of the credence for the skydiving rumour rests on the tattoo incident of July 2016 in Munich. The at-first unbelievable photos from the airport show the prince in a skimpy t-shirt, covered in fake tattoos, accompanied by his similarly half-dressed high-heeled consort Nui (Suthida), a former flight attendant, boarding the royal jet for Bangkok.
No sooner had the Prayuth government screamed, “Photoshopped! Lese-majeste!” than a similar photo appeared, this time of the crown prince strolling through a high-end Munich shopping mall with Goy, his eerily twinned #2 serving maid, at his side. Her hair cut nearly as short as the prince’s, Goy was dressed in short shorts and a nearly transparent top. Her tattoos, like the prince’s, were on full display. Judging from more recent, equally bizarre photos taken in late-night Bangkok, Goy’s (or the king’s) preferred dress code continues to be barely clothed.
In both the airport and mall pictures, the prince, wearing low-slung jeans, comes perilously close to mooning any busybodies or stray photographers who might draw near. Stone-faced officials, saluting as he, Nui, and Foo Foo’s successor (anon) board the royal jet, are very nearly treated to a glimpse of the royal jewels.
As might be expected, the Munich photos drove the government mad, and the blogosphere crazy with speculation.
The tattoo incident, which occurred when King Bhumibol was near death and the kingdom was consumed with anxiety over the succession, perfectly illustrates the king’s propensity for personal risk to combat boredom. Or his mastery of the art of the royal insult. Or both.
Given his past lifestyle and residence abroad (for rumoured medical treatment), the tedium of state ceremonies coupled with the prospect of remaining indefinitely in the country would, for this royal, constitute the very essence of boredom.
The flip side to the above is the hot buzz of “gossip” (nintha, sup-sip) by his subjects: a deliciously risky behaviour charged with danger and excitement.
In Buddhaghosa’s The Path of Purification (Visuddhimagga), gossip or “tale-bearing” falls under the category of “belittling.” It is also identified with extortion. One explanation of the disgrace of the disappeared and newly reappeared (in police custody) Grand Chamberlain, Police General Jumpol Manmai, was that he gossiped with Thaksin about the king and the king heard about it.
The king’s outrageous behaviour and gossip about the same, provoking enforcement of lese-majeste laws, is the coin of the new realm, the essence of contemporary Thai politics. This dynamic comprises a unique political structure, reliable in its unreliability.
In the absence of law and a real government, constitution, and parliament, Thailand has evolved into a powder keg of gossip and risk. The king behaves in a shocking manner, his subjects retaliate with forbidden speech, and the military feeds off the dynamic. Long castigated for being uncharismatic and under-educated, inadequate, evil, and out of touch, Thailand’s as yet unconsecrated king is an expert at pushing these boundaries.
Adding even more spice to the above, it is inconceivable that the king’s sexual and other adventuring actually remains secret. Like Siamese kings immemorial, he travels with a notoriously large entourage in both official and “private” (suan tua) capacities. A trek across the city in the middle of the night would entail an escort of at least a dozen police vehicles. Tandem skydiving of the new Dhammaraja or Righteous Ruler would probably involve the entire high command of the Royal Thai Air Force, which is headquartered at Don Muang.
It is likewise inconceivable that Suthida is unaware of his activities since her duty as chief consort is to oversee the harem (the king’s pleasure) — a task at which his first three wives failed miserably. As commander of the household guards, recently promoted to the rank of full general, it is her responsibility to ensure his personal safety.
The whole point of military rule — the fearsome lese-majeste laws, the silencing of the press, secret military tribunals, the uncertain fate of political prisoners, missing members of the royal circle — is that everything is gossip, “whispered speech” (krasip krasap). Therefore everything is danger.
In the past, in Buddhist texts and in popular culture, gossip and similarly low forms of communication were identified with the incredulous and weak-minded: women, servants, rebels from the periphery and unruly monks. Today, journalists, bloggers, political activists and other riffraff regularly occupy the same space.
The king has taken the entire nation skydiving, and no one dares object.
Christine Gray, PhD, is a cultural anthropologist who writes about monarchy, ritual, gender and power.
Superb piece about the form of royal Thai lies and truth telling. Gossip actually is post truth but nevertheless full of risk and danger. Is everything permitted to those exalted but vile bodies ruling Thai society?
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Make sure that the writer of this article will ever come into Thailand as she is writing out of her fantasy and she is definitely unwelcome here.
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Yes deluded Thai person your monarchs are not vile venal base despots are they? Bumipol was a right wing fake sacred being who ordered the murder of many citizens…never forget 2010
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You are the first Thai person I have ever seen defend Vajiralongkorn in a online comment, in person, or anywhere else.
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The Duke of Edinburgh worked out how to combat boredom. He had had a promising military career which he was prevented from pursuing. He used his acerbic wit to help him deal with the situation.
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Bhumibol’s ability to manage the institution of monarchy skilfully has undermined his country in the longer term. Vajiralongkorn’s blatant abuse of the institution has given the country hope of ridding itself of it. The recent history of Thailand is a clear lesson to the world that monarchy is a curse on humanity. Monarchies the world over originate in the same way, when a population becomes accustomed to crawling to the family of a military dictator. They are founded on grovelling, one of mankind’s baser instincts.
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Perhaps these night exercises were a shoot for a Thai version of the excellent James Bond movie, Sky fall ?
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When Christine Gray suggests that “Thailand has evolved into a powder keg of gossip and risk”, she is conflating the high-so and wannabe high-so with the 70 million people who make up the actual Thailand that people actually live in.
It’s a false conflation, of course, just as when a year ago almost to the day this same contributor to the false news network on New Mandala referred to the citizens of Isan as “pedicab drivers, sex workers and so on”.
No doubt there are people who look forward to the day when posting butt crack photos on Facebook will in fact constitute political discourse and noodling endlessly about a few thousand people as if they represent a whole nation will constitute scholarship of some sort.
But we don’t have to pretend that that day has arrived quite yet, even though their avatar is now ensconced in the Oval Office generating butt crack after butt crack and calling it politics.
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Indeed, many would doubtless agree that the USA finally has a fit symbol representing what it has become. Many folk think that Trump represents the US of A very well, I certainly think that Vajiralongkorn very closely resembles the essence of ‘Thainess’.
Populations get the governments they deserve, so perhaps the same applies to their kings. And Presidents.
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“rebels from the periphery and unruly monks”. They are certainly at the heart of Thailand’s current crisis.
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The comment about Jumpol Manmai “gossiping” with Thaksin? (where did that come from?) as the two parted long ago, Jumpol was former National Intelligence Director when T was in govt. The issue of his falling from grace as I understand is about illegal activities catching him up, in this case land encroachment building a 16 rai (2.6 hectare) grand residence at Thap Lan National Park.
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Since when did illegal activities necessitate a fall from grace (in Thailand)?
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One English-Language newspaper in Thailand certainly referred to an alleged ímproper (but unstated) relationship with Thaksin. The Nation if memory serves me, horrible rag that it is.
A local rag in Thailand (not the Nation as I recall), speculated today that Vajiralongkorn appears to be doing his best to ensure the monarchy in Thailand has a very limited future, certainly, if he becomes King at coronation and that doesn’t happen until lats this year, then I think there is every chance of the old Monks prophecy of there being no 10th king in the Chakri dynasty will prove to be true. I may laugh at Thais (in fact I do laugh at Thais), but they are not completely witless and V does not enjoy good esteem among what appears to be a majority of his people.
If indeed he has chosen his bed-fellows to be Prem, Prayuth and Prawit, then he appears to have very poor judgment and I’m surprised he hasn’t noticed the international reaction to them. If he cares.
Personally I rather hope he jumps from aeroplanes as often as possible, and that he makes sure all his parachutes are packed by Thais. Either malice or incompetence are highly likely to bring about a definitive conclusion to the problem he represents, though hopefully not just yet. We need to give widespread distaste and embarrassment every opportunity to turn into universal hatred and loathing, a course he seems already to have charted for himself.
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The price Jumpol Manmai has paid – perhaps for ” gossiping” with Thaksin – is well reported in current edition of The Economist. As are the particularly heightened tensions mounting this year, towards Thailand’s always tough annual September military reshuffle.
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It is currently Sky fall – but Sky FALL is on the horizon.
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Thank you so much, I laughed like a drain.
It shouldn’t be funny of course, it should be sad – tragic even. Still, in the entire absence of knowing what shame is, Thais’ll just have to get on with funny.
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Morgan – I have in my possession a copy of The Economist, from Thailand’s May ’92 uprising which makes the very point that what had started out as very “funny” demonstrations – that ever so-important “sanook” in Thai culture – had turned to tragedy. This time, I fear much worse.
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Hopefully. A major change is well overdue in the Land of Scams.
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Nonetheless – a coup is
coming. It may be hours away. It may be days away. I doubt it is months.
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Chris- why do you feel a coup is on the horizon? Who do you suspect has reason and power to organize one?
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Mark – because SO MANY previous pre-coup signs are there. Eg. “banquet Cabinet” corruption and nepotism, long-standing inter- military tensions and rivalries (the Chulachomklao coup-conveyor belt), the obviously still simmering Royal succession problems, widespread economic / ethno-socio-economic malaise, massive media discontent, almost universal student discontent ( including among Thai students here, in Australua, who complain : “Prayut is too strict”.).The list goes on, and on. And now even Yellow Shirt discontent – eg Somkid’s episode. It’s time
for the re-set
button.
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Is this what Thai Studies expends its intellectual capital on?
Zero impact, outside of pure titillation, is what recounting unsubstantiated rumours of royal private life achieves.
Instead of, for instance, bolstering the study of public health, education or law and society issues in Thailand, all of which remains in its infancy.
As a day to day journalist, I find that essential background information in these areas is not available to inform the public.
But who cares!
Cultural anthropology will follow in the footsteps of viral social media.
String the intellectuals along with titillating tidbits and plot, as if we were in the Roman Coliseum.
And now the PhD gossip columnist has become a Pali scholar?
“In Buddhaghosa’s The Path of Purification (Visuddhimagga), gossip or “tale-bearing” falls under the category of “belittling.” It is also identified with extortion.”
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And PitBull just played Bangkok, Jon Fernquest. While Mor Lum music reigns supreme in Isaarn, and it’s’ diaspora. Few things better illustrate how Isaarn and America’s stupid celeb culture “Thailand” are almost two completely different countries.
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Jon Fernquest – Christine’s piece here, and all her others – OBVIOUSLY bolster the study of “Thai law and society”. And even of public health and education – given that ALL these issues depend heavily on the Royal Family. And indeed, are often PAID FOR, by the Royal Family. God bless them.
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Christine Gray – have you got any photographic, conclusive proof of
this skydive – especially of the ” naked” consort ? If NOT, you – and others – may have fallen into a
well-laid trap.
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Without evidence (photos) this story doesn’t really fly. Or perhaps the entourage, wisely, all left their mobile phones at home on this day.
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Very interesting article on gossip among the rich and powerful of Bangkok. As for the “naked skydiving”, I’m not so sure that I can take that seriously. I’m going to put it in my “believe it when I see the pictures file”
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What next ? Caligula’s horse ? All A Hard Days Night.
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We had this already with the air-marshal FooFoo.
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Come on New Mandala. You can do better than this. This is pure ‘grade D’ gossip.
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Very interesting piece, wish to read more of this kind of articles regarding the issue. It seems to be really hard to find any good articles in the subject except on new mandala and the economist
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While taking your point, if Christine was reporting on what is common gossip among Thais, then given the draconian impact of 112, it must be considered to be an important and widespread perception among Thais.
It would be less important if it was against the general grain of behaviour by the new guy, but we all know it isn’t, and therefore, a common acceptance that it *may* be true represents an important dynamic in Thai society and politics that I personally support Christine in commenting on.
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indeed , given what we know is true there is nothing left that commands any large element of surprise .
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An insightful article on what’s transpiring in the palace in recent days, esp. since it’s only been a few months that Rama X ascended to the throne. I do hope this is the “beginning of the end” for this Chakri dynasty. The powers that be–elites, royalists, military– have tried to prop it up for too long, which has been extremely detrimental to the Thai people, to whom Thailand belongs. I do believe now the end is in sight.
Having been strictly enforced for the past several decades, Article 112 has made Thais extremely fearful, even at times, paranoid of what is said and where it is said. It’s being spoken of behind closed doors and comes across as gossip. Sadly, it is the truth and no matter how much the palace PR machine tries to keep it under wraps, it does get out in due time. This is a horror story unfolding before our eyes, with this dude on the throne, we will continue to see his shenanigans being talked about across Thailand, even at this site.
Sia O has been reckless and ruthless for decades and is not going to change. I do hope for the sake of the Thai people, this sad saga comes to an end. He does not care one iota what the world thinks, see or talks about him. He has a coterie of military men, who grovel at his feet, who do his bidding.
Pol. Gen. Jumpol Manmai is the latest to suffer his wrath, as he “shuffles the deck” in the palace and replaces all the old-timers with his hand selected individuals. It was just a matter of time, as Jumpol was Thaksin’s “bagman” who delivered bags of money from lottery sales to Sia O, and who was the go-between Sia O and Thaksin. The same Jumpol Manmai that Sia O wanted to put in place as Police Chief. Now he is spending time behind bars, and sadly, will likely end up dying of a sudden illness or brutally beaten to death, like many before him, who have “crossed the line” with Sia O.
His newly appointed and promoted consort, Gen. Suthida, is in for a rude awakening. Sia O will continue his escapades and she will wake up to this nightmare, although I believe she has no say as he does as he pleases. It is a well known fact what he’s done to this ex-wives and ex-mistresses. We can only shake our heads as his perverse behavior will only get worse.
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Indeed, you express my own feelings precisely, though you do so rather better than I would.
The new guy had an opportunity to reverse his pitiable reputation among Thais, and put himself in a position where he might actually do himself and the monarchy in Thailand some good. Alas I think that has now been squandered away and he will doubtless end up going the same way as Prem, Prayuth and Prawit will all go.
Good riddance is my opinion, it’s becoming clear that the Chakri dynasty is in the process of blowing itself up, ably assisted by the armed forces, the police and the judiciary in Thailand. What is truly remarkable is that none of them appear to be aware of what damage they’re doing to themselves day after day, and now they’re even going after Thaksin’s money again. I’m not sure how wise that is and I think they would have been smart to let that sleeping dog lie..
These Augeian stables are going to need a bit more than the usual superficial Thai job. The usual BS just isn’t going to cut it any more.
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Good riddance is my opinion, it’s becoming clear that the Chakri dynasty is in the process of blowing itself up
And yet, après lui, le déluge. The proverbial Augeian stables will eventually be washed away with the blood of many innocent Thais. It may be a necessary cleanser, but concerning the gravity of this possibility, it is still distasteful to read suchRobespierreian cheerleading on web fora by individuals who most likely will not be involved, or at least, insulated from its effects.
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If unsubstantiated gossip is “insightful” then stupidity is wisdom.
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Many people do not recognise that in a primitive country such as Thailand, where the mean intelligence is very low and communications are hampered by incompetence and a lack of social responsibility, then gossip is one of the major means of communications, and it is remarkably effective, according to my own observation anyway.
Not recognising this means that the importance and often-times the benefit of ‘word-of-mouth’ passage of information/news/nintaa/krasip in primitive societies passes one by which is not so clever for anyone commenting on the politics of those societies.
Gossip, substantiated or not, provides a valuable insight into culture and often, represents a large slice of what is, or what becomes, history in the absence of documents – a large hole in unsophisticated societies like Thailand.
Further, what constitutes ‘substantiated’ and indeed ‘stupidity’, is not a matter of blacks and whites but a sliding scale of greys.
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“If unsubstantiated gossip is “insightful” then stupidity is wisdom.”
Yes, but you have to understand that these people all “know” things that the rest of us don’t.
Just don’t ask how the “know” what they “know” cuz if they told us no doubt they’d have to kill us.
The simple fact of the matter is that most of the clickbait that this site now publishes on Thailand is the online equivalent of the apocryphal Special Forces/former CIA Operative one hears about meeting on bar stools in Pattaya.
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It one is looking at evolving patterns of power in the interregnum, and the production of viable heirs is the major dynamic of a monarchy, not only are the connections between gender and power (and Swiss medical clinics which promise “rejuvenation” in its many aspects) worthy of consideration, but also the interplay between Article 112 and Article 44 of the interim constitution.
Because a society operates via different political and cultural dynamics does not mean that it’s backward or its people are stupid: that is the basis of colonial and post-colonial thought, which got Thailand into this position in the first place. Where would the Thai military, or the former king or crown prince, for that matter, be without 20th century American patronage in rooting out state enemies, real or imagined?
The king’s resurrecting medieval practices as a form of privilege, national identity and resistance is odd, but worthy of note.
Because the behavior of national leaders provides “clickbait” does not mean the content is irrelevant. Au contraire. The U.S. is looking pretty backwards now; both the ascension of Rama X and the rise of Donald Trump reveal very dark aspects of their respective societies.
Both leaders are similar in their despicable treatment of women and their approaches to power; each has pushed abuse of both to the limits of their respective societies.
Given their respective attacks on democratic institutions, secrets and the revelation of secrets is currently a driving force in both societies where quite robust attempts are being made to discredit and frighten the populace at large through the denial of basic civil rights and the violation of basic human rights.
Equally fascinating is the shifting composition of their inner circles, and the fate of their various members.
Suthida’s position is no more enviable than that of Melania Trump, the difference being, of course, that Suthida could end up disappeared, not just divorced and stripped of assets. Both have already been humiliated to the max. The interesting point is Suthida’s extraordinary military promotions as strategy. At some point, her position becomes dangerous, indeed. The ambiguity is what makes the move so powerful.
For both Donald Trump and King Maha Vajiralongkorn fidelity towards wealth and power far overrides any form of family loyalty; their children can be discarded as easily as their spouses. The relationship between “clickbait” and policy is frightening, indeed.
The attitudes of powerful and not-so-powerful men towards women as spouses, mistresses, daughters, heads of ministries, prime ministers or scholars says a lot. It’s information. Imagine political analysis with it and without it. One of the former is the norm.
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Christine – have you got ANY evidence of “Swiss medical clinics” ?
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Morgan – why do you lump Prem with Prayut and Prawit ?
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Because Prem, the great meddler has been behind the last 2 coups and half a dozen other anti-democratic actions in Thailand. He is the instigator behind the ‘network monarchy’ (or ‘deep state’ if you prefer). His responsibility for treasonous actions is greater than Prayuth and Prawit who are merely the not-very-bright patsies. The front men. He is the one who created the monster of Thaksin, and the one who subsequently created the myth that Thaksin wanted to supplant the King in the country’s affections.
Do I really have to be explaining this Chris?
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You give Prem to much credit. While he is a gifted politician we should never forget that he was/is nothing more than the servant of Rama lX and now of Rama X.
While it is true that Prem was a primary player in the 2007 coup, he was a bystander for the 2014 coup d’état. I suspect the seeds of the 2014 coup were planted by the dowager Queen, before her 2012 stroke, in order to ensure a smooth succession to the throne for her son. If She weren’t a mental vegetable she would probably be very pleased with how well her wish was carried out by Prayuth.
It’s also possible that you may be underestimating the political skill of Rama X. If you recall, before the death of his father, there was much speculation that Prem would ensure his sister succeeded to the throne instead of him. It would appear that Vajiralongkorn and Prayuth proved to be more than a match for Prem.
I have little doubt that the palace PR Machine is very busy promoting a good image for Rama X. With the considerable resources at its disposal ( not to mention the cultural, political and religious capital of the monarchy ) it’s quite possible that they will succeed in promoting that image. Image is, after all, more about perception that reality.
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Well, it’s a view. It isn’t my view but my view is formed from a number of things that are not available to most. Doesn’t make it right of course, but it does explain why it isn’t the same as yours.
All of the points you make are reasonable, but have other interpretations – and I don’t agree with yours. In particular, I believe Prem abandoned the Angela option because he knew it wasn’t going to fly. At about the same time, Prayuth began to perceive that he was winning the loyalty of the Clown Prince in his multi-colored (and ever-changing) coat. Voila…
Rama X (elect) is, in my view, already finished. He had a chance to make something of the opportunity but blew it on the blandishments of Prayuth and Prawit and the lure of a few dollars more. I think that (as opposed to what I thought was the case no more than a few short weeks ago), the opportunity of a clandestine tryst with Thaksin has now disappeared, though I believe it became known to and frightened the cr*p out of Prayuth, which explains the recent resurgent interest in taxing and penalising the Shinawatra name into oblivion – an example of the immoderate and megalomaniacal zeal the man is capable of.
Time will take care of the (in my view) thoroughly unwholesome and repugnant Prem. I suspect the Thai people will take care of the other players and their absentee monarch, and I say that from the viewpoint of having a very dismal assessment of Thais in general and their ability in general to get off their bottoms where matters of principle are concerned.
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Morgan – your very good analysis is marred by the way you look down on Thais. These are an incredibly brave people, when pushed to a point where they have to stand up. I saw this during May ’92’s uprising. I will never, for the rest of my life, forget and cease to respect the immense courage of those who refused to cower to brutal, terrifying force.
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This is pure orientalist garbage.
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This is an interesting question: Given the life history and personal predilections of Rama X, his near limitless wealth, and his control of the royal regalia (which, ahem, are assumed to have magical properties), how much can the palace PR machine do to promote his image? And what image would that be? He wants to be a military king. He grew up experiencing the realities, not the ideologies or fantasies, of the Ninth Reign. He is, in the manner of Rama V, systematically expanding his power and influence. The difference is, he’s old, not young. It’s a new global era.
One point of this article is that everyone is afraid, or nearly everyone. It’s worth noting the difference.
These are unique, nearly unimaginable, cultural and political dynamics.
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‘ how much can the palace PR machine do to promote his image? ”
A thousand times more than the PR machines of any other institution or official in Thailand. They have already done his image worlds of good by potraying him (on an almost daily basis via TV, Radio, the print media and the internet ) as a dutiful, loyal and loving son to his much revered father. And make no mistake, whether this portrayal is true or false, millions of Thais are swallowing it whole. Symbols are power and the palace has stage-managed the symbolism and rituals of morning and secession almost perfectly.
The King’s New Years message to the nation is another example of his positive branding. His plea to all sides of the political spectrum to seek comman ground and reconciliation was almost pitch perfect. He looked and sounded like the quintessential modern head of state. In today’s media driven world perception is, sadly, reality.
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Christine – HOW do you know the new King ” wants to be a military king” ? At this very early stage, probably even HE does not know exactly what type of King he becomes. I hope he follows the best of Spain’s King Juan Carlos – I.e. helps the country back to democracy.
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Monster of Thaksin!! Thaksin is the heir of Pridi and proponent of popular barami …besides the unfortunate murder of drug pushers.The Queen ordered the murder of Malay Muslims in 2004.
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Pridi was a man of principle and the founder of Siamese democracy. Thaksin was an opportunist much like Trump. It was necessary to defend the legitimacy of Thaksin’s régime, just as it is necessary to defend Trump’s presidency. Both held/hold office by virtue of rules that are vastly more important than those individuals could ever be.
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I’ve heard similar things about Pridi though I’m not a historian. Agree about Thaksin too – an opportunist as you say. Yet, in order to gain electoral leverage, he had to get a lot of Thais on side, and he chose the rural poor(er), It was a shrewd choice, and the fears of the amaat that he would supplant their figurehead king in the affections of the people were well founded. The prosecution was a stitch-up, this much is widely accepted about an even more widely corrupt judiciary, and of course he was allowed to go into exile via the Olympics in China as I recall.
Since then, as I have noted before, the red-shirts have become little more than a talk-fest with the possible exception of the so-called ‘assassination plot’, widely seen to be a misdirection from the dreadul rollocking Thailand got from the UN, Sadly, that’s all the UN can do, it’s hampered by being eunuch-like in its virility and much of its usefulness, and is obliged to work within diplomatic convention, which the Thais effectively take no notice whatever of. They give the middle finger to the world and they get away with it time after time. Remarkable really.
I liked the comparison with Trump, but Thaksin was at least basically smart and minimally competent despite his misjudgments about people. I’m not so sure the same can be said of the Donald in any sense
.
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R.N. England – the REAL ‘founder of Thai democracy” was King Chulalongkorn. There is NO GREATER democratic act than freeing slaves. Which Chulalongkorn fought long and hard for, and eventually achieved.
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Chris Beale,
Chulalongkorn realised he was a pipsqueak compared with Queen Victoria. He just wanted to be a bit more like her. That involved more somewhat more civilised behaviour than normal Chakri traditions. But unlike her, he would never have tolerated any challenge to his power by elected representatives of “his” people. In that respect the Chakris have not changed.
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Being from the USofA, in some meaningful ways, I see similarities between Rama X and Mr. Trump. The greatest danger of a Trump presidency may not be a turn towards authoritarianism, but a power vacuum caused by weakness.
Sadly, a nation gets what it deserves and we have a “hot potato” occupying the White House and center of power, (as is the case of Rama X), and no one knows what he will do or say or act upon or blurt out, without realizing or giving much thought to his words and actions, which do have major consequences.
The ancient Greeks knew why: A Man’s Character Is His Fate. In that case, Trump’s presidency may be doomed. Just as Rama X’s day of reckoning (including Prayuth and his gang) is fast approaching.
The Chakri Dynasty is doomed, and Prayuth and his gang, are desperate to plug the many holes in the bucket using Article 112 and 44 to coerce, threaten, and instill fear in most Thais. Yet Sia O keeps doing the “unthinkable” and keeps pushing the boundaries (Does he even know what a boundary is?) and collectively, we keep shaking our heads in disbelief, wondering how low will be go? Well for someone who has no control over his impulses, anger and rage, and has shown an appalling sense of disregard for decency, and has a lot of free time on his hands, the old adage is true: An idle mind is the devil’s workshop. How unlike his father, who at least cared enough to build a “good public image” of himself, with the help of the well financed palace PR machine.
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Ryan K – re. Bumiphol, I am struck by how all Thai communities I’ve seen in Australia STILL have adoring photos of the late King, and very many Thais STILL wearing black. I have n’t seen a single example of such adoration for the new king. Not one.
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This is interesting. In some towns in America, Thai restaurant owners responded to X’s reputation and activities in the last century by featuring only pictures of the king, or of the king and queen. Some took pictures of royals down entirely. Many Thais will not speak publicly of politics out of fear for family still in country. Certainly they will not speak publicly criticizing royalty — especially “beloved” royalty. That culture of fear is deeply ingrained. Billions of dollars goes a long way. In a culture of intimidation, what are ya gonna do? …. speak in whispers
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In Oz also , there are Thai’s who will not speak publicly of politics out of fear for family still in country.
Quite probably the same Thai’s whom Chris has mentioned as having the obligatory pics …..
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To alleviate some of the angst over gossip as an analytic category …
Gossip is a culturally-specific speech form that offers interesting if not necessary insights into Thai political dynamics for the reasons laid out in the article.
Which type of gossip will get you killed?
An important distinction, one might think.
What of the vicious gossip about his second and third wives set about by infuriated former in-laws of the crown prince, or Vajiralongkorn’s playing off same (releasing pornographic photos) to escape one mistress and move on to the next? What of gossip as deliberate misinformation set about by the power elite like the Pramoj brothers and the Democrats after King Ananda’s death?
If it influences the succession, it’s relevant.
With regard to the circumstances of Ananda’s death, the intent of the gossip (misinformation) disseminated by royalists and their police allies (funded by the United States and the CIA) was to destroy once and for all any chance of a comeback of democratic rival Pridi Phanomyong. It also functioned as a form of blackmail for the Mahidols.
What if the police focused on a different suspect?
The collateral damage was the lives of three innocent men — two hereditary palace retainers and a royal secretary involved in rice deals counter to royal interests. The execution of known innocents after a ridiculous show trial was a blemish on everyone who participated. The trials and consistent mangling of fact and interpretation exposed the Thai justice system for the farce that it is.
Making such a mockery of the justice system damaged Thailand’s reputation as a modern nation-state in the eyes of the international community. For select royals and their police and business associates, however, it was well worth the risk.
One apparent goal of this reverse dynamic — whereby X does something outrageous, insiders gossip (tell the truth) as a form of social control, and the junta retaliates via article 112 — is to totally extinguish — to make null and void (mokha) — the power and influence of former Prime Minister Thaksin, his followers and associates.
For farang commentators on NM, the word “gossip” is used to discredit journalists critical of the monarchy. By focusing on inessentials and female-related personal things — tattoos, improper dress, adultery and the like — it is implied, they are not real reporters.
In reporting gossip about royals — as opposed to manly man things like drug murders, arms deals, suspected insider trading on the stock market and the like — these men are like girls.
OMG!
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A small and real question. The CIA was formed in late 1947. Was there much CIA or OSS funding going to the Thai police in 1946 and 1947?
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Are you having a laff? Pau totally funded and supported
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In 1946 and 1947? That’s the question. There’s plenty of information for later, but the question is about specific dates.
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Seems unlikely really that the CIA was helping Thai police when the CIA wasn’t created until 1947. Might have been the OSS but as I recall the transition from OSS to CIA wasn’t smooth and I imagine nobody was paying much attention to Thailand at all except to scupper the war reparations that Churchill was determined to levy. He lost.
As I recall, the CIA really only exerted its improper influence in Thailand after it became militarised during the Vietnam war. The good ole Americans were determined not to get kicked out of SE Asia again so set about creating a safe haven under puppet kings and governments. Hence the preferred treatment under the Amity treaty and others.
Of course, Thais, being the bright and culturally sophisticated people they are fell for the CIA-assisted propaganda campaigns hook line and sinker. Has to be a reason USA chose Thailand, and the susceptibility of the populace was inevitably a major consideration.
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When the trials were going on,
In the 1950s
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Okay, I see, you did not mean 1946-47, when the inquest was on and when the Democrats or Progressives were shouting about Pridi, but later, when the fake trials were on.
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There’s a fair amount of literature on the OSS during and immediately after the Pacific War, and CIA involvement with police in the 1950s. The latter tends to repeat itself, however. OSS was totally a creature of the American and Thai elite. There are quite fascinating questions about royals’ activities during the war, because many emerged quite wealthy, clustered around major commercial banks, after the war.
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You are certainly right that OSS was of the US elite and so was the CIA in early days. The Thai connection probably needs more work. The CIA files for the OSS are open but still redacted, including for the royal family.
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Ralph – could you provide a link, or if not, at least a citation, for the CIA files being “open” ?
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Ralph – pages 88-9, 91, 126-7,, 132-33, and further in Alfred McCoy’s still seminal “The Politics of Heroin In Southeast Asia”, gives some indication of an answer to your question. But, given the danger, would anyone publish more brave than that ?
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https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
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I have a PDF of McCoy, without page numbers… But I think the references you helpfully suggest are to post-1950 events. That period is pretty well known. I was asking about 1945 to 1949 and was “fishing” to see if there was any recent material that had been revealed.
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Ralph – if you check those pages carefully, in McCoy’s PRINTED original you will see he’s QUITE CLEARLY refering to the mid-late 1940’s, as well as the 1950’s. But he does n’t go into detail. Obviously he probably would not have lived to tell the tale, had he crossed that boundary.
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“Gossip is a culturally-specific speech form”
With respect that is either nonsense or poorly-worded. Gossip is a human characteristic, the gossip mechanism is not specific to any culture.
It’s human nature.
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Nonethless, gossip takes different forms in different cultures, and has different dynamics. “Gossip Girls” was an American tv show about wealthy young socialites in NY … not quite the same thing as disorderly monks carrying tales and disrupting villages in Buddhaghosa or rumors of monks with magical powers sweeping the northeast at the turn of the 20th century, response to Chulalongkorn’s new system of taxation. A Dhammaraja does not gossip; it’s the speech form of lesser beings in the Buddhist cosmos. Journalists in Thailand are often portrayed by the military as persons with “bad intentions” (which produce bad karmic outcomes) and are warned to tow the government line or not to waste their time with …
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Depends how you look at it and how you categorise it. I see no merit in drawing distinctions between gossip in various cultures, to me it’s all much the same and any categorisation is superficial not to say bogus.
People gossip, it’s an important part of [the evolution of] our psychology. Women do it more than men and there are perfectly good and practical reasons why that is so as well.
I agree that gossip is an important means of communications, especially where communications are repressed or the means of communications is incompetent and privacy undermined, but I don’t see any evidence for a useful proposition that gossip is culturally specific, not is it intuitively satisfying – probably in part down to my own academic profile.
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Morgan – Christine was surely referring to the SPECIFIC Shape and Content of “gossip”. You have missed her point.
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‘Surely’?
No, I don’t think I missed the point, I think the point was unsupported and highly speculative without any real substance.
‘SPECIFIC Shape and Content of “gossip”‘?
You have to be joking. Gossip has a shape? The content of gossip is culturally determined? Gimme a break, Chris. It was a bad piece, end of.
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Morgan – you should brush up on Chomsky’s linguistics – especially syntax. Yes, of course gossip is common to all languages, just as language is common to all human beings – and underlining it all is a common, basic syntactic structure. But equally ALL languages have their own individual, identifying structure – eg. Persian is different from Arabic simply because it has a DISTINCT “p” sound, whereas Arabic does not. Ditto with gossip – a variable subset of common language, often mixed with slang. Gossip has its’ own syntactic structure – and conveyed MEANING – specific to the culture it is grammatically transformed in. Christine is more on the ball (such a gossipy term, that), than you. It’s not that you are totally wrong – it’s’ simply that you miss the point. I would love to hear Christine’s current gossip – syntactically structured in Thai. THAT WOULD BE SOME EVIDENCE. Does she have an audio-recording ?
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Hmmm. Maybe.
I don’t brush up on or remain current with linguistics, and have felt that it is at best an imprecise and and at worst a much abused endeavour. Perhaps my view is jaded, having spent some time with John Grinder (try not to laugh) and more recently trying to pull the useful teeth out of some posts by another self-promoting linguistics man.
What you seem to be saying is that every national culture has it’s own gossip ‘shape’ and syntactical structure, because each gossip is undertaken in it’s own language. So it isn’t the gossip that is uniquely influenced by culture at all, but the precise words and language used in that gossip. OK if you think that’s a useful distinction to make – personally I’m not so sure its merit flies well. Or at all. It seems like stating the perfectly obvious to me.
I have no doubt that Christine is more on the ball (though you don’t state which ball) than I am, but consider this – it’s her job. Her chosen profession. It would be a poor old day if she wasn’t more on the ball’ than me, even if she did sound a bit psychedelic for a moment there – I do sympathise with that though, it’s really hard to disguise an insult when you know the moderators are watching. The piece itself was pure scuttlebutt, with nothing whatever to substantiate it and from which there was no useful conclusion. Academically dubious – must have been a quiet day. AMM had the measure of it when he stated that ít wasn’t [her] best piece. I agree but I’m not looking for a fight with you, if you think it was the bees knees then good luck to you, and of course you’re perfectly free to rank posts and comments according to whatever criteria you choose.
I don’t believe I missed the point Chris, I think I got exactly the point – which was that there wasn’t really a point at all; which appears to be why she (and perhaps you) feel so uncomfortable with my comments, though it does seem like it’s de rigeur to try and impute some usefulness to it. Nature abhors a vaccuum.
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All these observations on the Thai monarchy are way beyond me, but I rather doubt whether Chomsky’s theories on syntax offer a route to greater understanding of the issues.
You can study move alpha or argue for the maximal projection of NP till the cows come home, but you won’t find the truth in regard to whether V skydived with a naked hussie (For a good introduction to minimalist syntax could I in passing, recommend the recent texts by Radford?).
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On the contrary, Christine, “by focusing on inessentials”, posters here are acting exactly the way real “reporters” are paid to act by their corporate masters.
The focus on the folks who “get their ritual ducks all lined up” is as relevant to Thai political reality as the focus on Trump as Putin’s puppet is to American political reality.
Your jejeune suggestion that there is something “sexist” about thinking that gossip about who skydives naked amongst the billionaires of the world is irrelevant to political discourse reminds me that folks who opposed Hillary were sexist in her loss to Obama, in her victory over Sanders, and in her destruction of the Democratic Party in handing the White House to Trump. Bad sexism! Bad!
It heartens me to recall your classist and sexist description of Thailand’s working class Isanites as “pedicab drivers, sex workers and so on” because, even more than your wildly off-the-mark assertions about what is happening in Thailand based on rumors, that litany exemplifies just exactly how out of touch you are with the realities of Thailand in 2017.
As Giles pointed out in the introduction to the pamphlet that led to his exile, this tendency to focus exclusively on the “elite”, and the obscurantist mumbo-jumbo they use to titillate each other when they aren’t swanning it in a European resort, is “worthless”.
Except as clickbait of course.
And as is clear from comments on this site, it also draws a lot of fanboys from the “all Thais are stupid” crowd that tends to populate the local expat forums.
Congratulations?
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Michael,
Why the vitriol? Giles himself came from an elite family, I believe, and is embittered, as many are, at what’s going on in the country. I’m sure NM would welcome a piece from you, under your real name, if this isn’t it, with an exact focus of what you think is worthy of comment in these strange times. Otherwise, the vitriol would just seem to be aimed at preventing new ideas and new contributors from posting on this site as a means of enforcing the status quo. If you are a fan of Giles, by all means post an update on the Thai labor movement, its sources of energy and funding. Feel free to explain exactly what are the realities of 2017. There is excellent work out there on motorcycle taxi drivers, etc. and their role in 21st century politics as well as regional political dynamics in and after the Thaksin era. There is little or no work on gender and gender dynamics as it pertains to palace and junta politics. There is, however, a hecka lot of advertising…
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Not sure where you detect “vitriol” in that response but I’m sure that one woman’s vitriol is another’s “angry trolling”, so there is that.
Giles may or not be “embittered” by the political winds that have blown him out of Thailand, but he has maintained consistently his contempt for the gossip-mongers who time and again work to create the impression that elite ritual and the soap-operatic “succession struggle” are or have been central to the “evolving patterns of power” in Thailand’s ongoing political crisis.
In that, I am in 100% agreement with him.
As for my aiming to “prevent new ideas and new contributors from posting” here, you have got to be kidding.
The stale old emphasis on the monarchy would simply bore me to tears if it weren’t so indicative of a general tendency to distort the nature of Thai politics and utterly erase the Thai people from the narrative, both in pseudo-academic and mainstream “journalism”.
I have been looking around for a paper I wrote back in the day on “gendering evil” in Buffy the Vampire Slayer but am pretty sure it has gone the way of the notes I made when I was noodling toward proposing a Lacanian reading of “pronoun slippage and gender” in the poems of Emily Bronte to my thesis supervisor.
One was pure eighties grad stuff and the other was early millennial gonzo feminism.
Thai politics and society are neither Emily Bronte nor Buffy, and neither are they served by the playful application of intellectual constructs that are perfectly respectable in the realms of imagination that are the proper objects of such speculative play.
I mean, can you say “Oriental Despot” one more time with feeling?
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Giles may or not be “embittered” by the political winds that have blown him out of Thailand, but he has maintained consistently his contempt for the gossip-mongers who time and again work to create the impression that elite ritual and the soap-operatic “succession struggle” are or have been central to the “evolving patterns of power” in Thailand’s ongoing political crisis. In that, I am in 100% agreement with him.
I suspect Giles’ contempt for the gossipping classes (elsewhere called the chattering classes for good reason) stems from his contempt, not so much for the people doing the gossiping (which I’m not convinced he really feels), but for the people who ONLY do the gossipping. And nothing else.
In that sense I agree with him completely. It seems to me that there are far too many people in Thailand who have become accustomed to gathering together for a little harmless (and ineffectual) middle-class activism with their coffee. In this sense, most Thais should be absolutely ashamed that much of the real political activism is being done by students. I’ve talked with a number of red-shirt ‘pooyay’ in the past few years and have invariably been dismayed at their ability to whine and grumble, but contrastingly complete inability to get off their bottoms and do something other than just whingeing.
In my view, history shows very clearly that for any defining change in the political systems, which usually involves getting the feudal barons ejected, a blood sacrifice is required. In this respect my wishful thinking that the Thai people would actually throw off a yoke which has brought repression but also a certain amount of comfort to a good few, has proved so far to be just that – wishful thinking.
It may be a better approach, certainly for me a more productive one, to just get on with making my own life fulfilling and let the Thai people get on with their own problem without choosing to endure more of the incessant whining. To qote the ole maxim… either poop or get off the pot.
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Frankly this was far from your best work, Christine, but nevertheless it was interesting and thought provoking, and I suggest you just ignore the ranting of people like Michael Wilson.
Constructive criticism and debate are really useful, but Michael prefers to make moral judgments about those whose views he disagrees with, and never misses an opportunity to telegraph his “contempt” for anyone with a different opinion to his own. He also loves conspiracy theories, as we can see in this discussion, where he once again shares his tinfoil hat theories that people with views that don’t chime with his are not stating their sincere opinions, but rather have been bribed or brainwashed by some shadowy evil coalition of baddies.
The irony is, of course, that this kind of angry white male conspiratorial aggressive mansplaining is rife nowadays, most notably in the circle of people around Donald Trump, whom Michael claims to hate despite the obvious similarities in their behaviour and inability to debate in an open minded and respectful way.
As somebody who has wasted many hours I can never get back arguing with angry troubled men online, I would advise you to learn the same lesson I have learned: if somebody is not capable of debating you without rancour and abuse, just ignore them. They are not worth it.
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Indeed, it was one of Christine’s better pieces.
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Andrew MacGregor Marshshall – this may not be Christine’s “best work” (indeed it is marred by lack of hard evidence). But judging by the hornets nest of commentary she has provoked – it’s a pretty good piece !
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Andrew:
Thank you for your advice and your comments. I will strive to live up to your standards.
You were and remain the chief journalistic force in rooting out what’s going on behind the scenes in Thai politics. Please, do not stop.
The situation in Thailand just seems to get worse and worse. As we know, it burns out and embitters many people. The reason for the burnout is evident on this site and in the careers of Thai scholars and journalists, even more evident in the number of Article 112 detainees in Thai prisons, secret or otherwise.
While some of the comments are useful, messages (and subtexts) to me and others who post on this website are often You dare! — an enraged crown prince’s rumored message to the imprisoned Srirasmi. (Hmm. Dare what? Produce a flawed heir? Slap the mistress in the face at a European airport? Think that she was anything apart from him? Encourage her relatives to enjoy the ordinary perquisites of the royal in-laws [the family that provides the throne with a mother to the heir apparent], particularly police prerogatives? Yes, check out the activities of the Svasti and Sucharitakul relatives).
The Emperor IS clothed… well… sort of … He did go tandem sky diving in the middle of the night. Nooo! He did not! Prove it! She was naked. Nooo! They both were.
However, I disagree with your point about silence: The angry men brouhaha is precisely the point, as well as the sources and expressions of that discontent. It is hard not to descend into [s]ex-patriate hell. Very hard.
As I have suggested before, the worst expressions and insults on this site would seem to derive from life in a society that has normalized prostitution. As with the new king and his harem, what’s actually being transacted is flattery/entitlement/debasement of self and others. This, in turn, produces a kind of rage towards people who have actually accomplished something, particularly women.
One suspects the more negative commentators on this site, particularly the anonymous trolls, are not in much danger from the junta. There is an implied social contract for enjoying Oriental delights for which the country is famed, and for getting those special 10-year resident visas : not criticizing the monarchy, the military, and human rights violations.
While many NM discussants simply could not address the main point of the article, many people, including scholars, could, and thought it was spot on.
Thailand’s lucrative tourist and prostitution industry perfectly reflects the example set by the new king. Ironically, through opposite example — by pursuing a mostly asexual, saintly path that attempted to endow the monarchy, the nation and its ruling elite with high moral tone — his father normalized the trade by ignoring it, all the while enjoying profits that accrued to royal properties linked to the trade.
For those habituated to it, this atmosphere allows some farang men to behave towards women, or people in general, in a way that would make them outcasts in their own societies, certainly in polite society. Some seem to view this site as a format for expression of those entitlements. Note that Thai commentators, for the most part, do not engage in this type of response.
I’ve heard from many non-posters, including human rights activists and scholars, who not only understood the main point of the article, but thought it was both useful and thought-provoking.
One goal with this piece was to re-set political theory to include gossip (as a subset of free speech) and retaliation (in its various forms) as a critical social and political dynamic. Another is to normalize discussion of the monarchy in relation to politics, power, the economy, etc. (No, I did not say that the monarchy was the only or singularly most important institution in society, but that it needs consistently to be addressed.)
This piece took weeks to write and involved a cast of thousands (ok, perhaps the sustained efforts of at least a dozen people who, by necessity, must remain anonymous.)
As for less important matters:
Andrew, I am now developing a fierce interest in FiFi, the king’s new poodle. Did your sources confirm the name, or is that ironic or satirical on your part? Has there been a definitive check on FiFi’s sex? Can you confirm the identity of his or her groomer?
Also, what is your source on that Swiss clinic that the king supposedly visited. http://villa-medica.com/ This is hilarious.
Of course, no one can PROVE the king left Thailand to undergo stem cell treatment [whatever] for his [blank] ailments, although he does seem to have sailed off in a new $96 million Boeing jet gifted him by the RTAF. Given his lifestyle and preoccupations, the king may actually have no interest at all in rejuvenation or in state-of-the-art medical treatments available to his global peers — like the rock stars and business executives who attest to the miracles performed by such clinics.
Unless, of course, he views his latest rumored serving maid — of royal lineage and more “pure blood” than the bar girls, nurses and flight attendants who populate his harem — as a last chance to produce a viable male heir. That truly has alarmed Bangkok high society.
Nah. That’s just silly. Urged on by Goy or one of the serving maids charged with enhancing his virility and keeping excitement in his life, he’s probably experimenting with painting his toenails blue, with spangles, or some such thing. Resting up from all that unfair gossip, or planning to jail, torture and disappear anyone who displeases him.
Meanwhile, for the serious of mind or people who are into gossip big time, check out McCoy’s still seminal “The Politics of Heroin,” which is not identified with “Thai studies” per se. Next, integrate relevant information into mainstream scholarship on politics, history and economics [that’ll take about a decade]. Third, try and write women back into the equation, particularly in areas like banking and real estate. Finally, to figure out how this information disappears from the record, check out key concepts from feminist studies like erasure, trivialization, the powers of the weak, etc.
After which you, too, may need to visit that Swiss clinic.
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The “main point” of the article, like all of the articles detailing the ins and outs of palace life, is to create the impression that the palace is where the power lies in Thailand.
That is simply not the case. No evidence is ever offered for this assumption/assertion, but the “arguments” (such as they are) simply assume the truth of it.
This is known as “begging the question”. Treat the assumption as if it needs to be proved or somehow validated and all this just goes away.
And as we see in Trump’s America, stating a falsehood as if it were true, and then running it through a rinse and repeat cycle, is just as effective as having an argument, but only when your audience is inclined to believe what you are claiming in the first place.
Take away the assumption and you have nothing left.
That would explain why rather than argue for the validity of the viewpoint, we get these royalist gossips saying such edifying things as “angry troll” and “sexist”. And at such length!
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Michael Wilson is right. The wealthiest family and conglomerate in the country can’t possibly have any power.
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Well, Ralph, if I’d ever suggested such a thing, I suppose your withering sarcasm wouldn’t be directed at a straw man.
But I never have.
There are a number of wealthy families in Thailand and a few of them I have no doubt wield considerable power, political and otherwise. I think this is a fairly uncontroversial belief.
There are any number of “power centers” in Thailand, as there are in any modern nation, democratic or otherwise. That is why it is so fantastic to attribute so much power to one man, never mind to the one institution that he operates within.
Christine Grey, in another of her articles on NM, says this:
“How is it that Thailand, such a tiny country, has produced so many billionaires who operate on a global scale, many of whom are designated as “self-made”?”
Just as Thailand is not facing a sudden descent into some imaginary hell determined by the character of one individual, Thailand is not “a tiny country”.
“If it were in Europe, Thailand would be that peninsula’s 3rd largest country, falling between France and Spain. It is the third largest country in SE Asia and the 14th largest country in all of Asia. It is the 51st largest country in the world.
By population, Thailand is the 21st largest country in the world. If it were in Europe, it would be that peninsula’s 3rd most populous country after Germany and France. It is 4th by population in SE Asia and 10th in all of Asia.
In terms of its economy, Thailand is the 28th largest in the world. It is the world’s 9th largest producer of motor vehicles, 2nd largest producer of HDD, 6th largest rice grower and 2nd largest producer of shrimp for the world market. It is the 10th most visited country in the world, with the 6th highest tourism receipts.”
Whenever the various magazines and websites that provide endless tidbits of information about the wealthy make lists of the countries with the most billionaires per capita or millionaires per capita, Thailand never makes it into the top 10 or even 20.
Singapore usually comes near the top of the list and even Malaysia has more by some measures.
So it would appear that the suggestion that there is some nefarious connection between Gray’s favorite whipping boy and unusual concentrations of wealth in tiny Thailand is just that- a suggestion. And it is one that rests on a falsehood and does not stand up to any sort of empirical test at all.
This constant promotion of Thailand as somehow being exceptional rather than characteristic of the region of the world it is located in is worthy of study in my opinion. It does seem to attract “haters” in a way that Vietnam and Singapore and Indonesia or Malaysia just don’t, regardless of human rights violations and limitations on freedom of speech etc being much the same in all of ASEAN.
In this article, we hear that Thailand’s new monarch “demanded two prerogatives exercised by Siamese despots of the past: the right to appoint the Supreme Patriarch of the Buddhist Sangha, and the right to determine the conditions of the regency.”
I would ask for some smidgeon of proof that the first “demand” came from the king.
It seems far more likely that the junta saw this as a convenient way out of the tangle that has bedeviled various Thai administration since the days of Thaksin and the first coup against him.
The constitutional history of this particular prerogative is an interesting one, but in no way indicates a return to the medieval or to “Siamese despots of the past”.
If we could get some indication of the source of this counter-intuitive claim without a long preamble on the psychological propensities of foreign men who live in Thailand it would be great. But if not, I’m sure no one will be surprised.
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Oh dear, Michael Wilson, I was agreeing with you when you said: “The main point of the article, like all of the articles detailing the ins and outs of palace life, is to create the impression that the palace is where the power lies in Thailand. That is simply not the case.”
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And as is clear from comments on this site, it also draws a lot of fanboys from the “all Thais are stupid” crowd that tends to populate the local expat forums.
As opposed to those who think that all Thais are noble savages, possessed of some secret that magically transforms the inadequate into the superman. Great.
My friend, take a look at the numbers. Average IQ in Thailand – 89 – has been for at least 12 years.
Now have a look at the national averages for other countries and ask ‘how can this be?’Then look at the culture in detail, beyond the mor lam and tuneless Chinese singing and the pop songs that all sound the same.
Then perhaps the seeds of understanding will take root. Real news isn’t about what the parasites at the top are doing, its ALL about what the people are saying between themselves when nobody with a gun is listening. To that extent those who comment on the inessentials’ are closer to what’s really going on that any of the ‘noble savage’ fanbois are.
As for local ex-pat forums, most are populated by elderly fat sex-addicts and young barstool cowboys who couldn’t make it back home and won’t make it anywhere else either. Pay attention to what they say if you want, but I won’t be.
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As someone who works in the field of the psychometrics of language acquisition, I can confidently say that claim utterly false.
Taking a look at several large surveys of national IQ one can see the following results for the mean:
Thai Institute of Public Health (1998): 89.9
Ruangdaraganon (2004): 85.3
Sukhatunga et al. (2006a): 95.6*
Sukhatunga et al. (2006b): 104.6*
Aekplakorn (2009):87.9
Thai Department of Mental Health (2011): 96.5
(*The two Sukhatunga et al. studies used different instruments, both being variants of Raven’s Progressive Matrices.) Now, a crude meta-analysis with the assumption that the findings of the 6 studies are equally robust, etc. etc. would yield a mean IQ of 93.3 over a 13 year period.
Furthermore, regardless of what the mean IQ of the Thai population is, your premise that there is some correlation between IQ and the propensity to gossip is absurd. In fact, scholars like Robin Dunbar have “theorized that gossip played a fundamental role in the evolution of human intelligence and social life” (Rosnow & Foster, 2005).
Just as you look down upon the denizens of sexpat forums, I sneer at laymen cranks who stridently inflict their crackpot theories in the comment sections of academic blogs.
In the vernacular of the last decade, you’ve just been ethered, son.
References:
Aekplakorn, W. (2009). Report on the Fourth National Health Examination Survey: 2008-2009. Bangkok, Thailand: National Health Security Office.
Rosnow, R. L. & Foster, E.K. (2005). Rumor and Gossip Research [Blog] Retrieved from http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2005/04/gossip.aspx
Ruangdaraganon, N. (2004). Growth development and intelligence of Thai children. Songkla, Thailand: Hat Yai Press.
Sukhatunga, K., Kowasint, C., Phatthrayuttawat S., Chantra, J., Chaiyasit, W., Bunnagulrote, K., & Imaroonrak, S. (2006). Norms of the Coloured Progressive Matrices (CPM) in Thai students age 6-11 years old. Journal of Thai Clinical Psychology, 37, 9-22.
Thai Department of Mental Health (2011). Survey of the intellectual level of students in Thailand: 2010. Bangkok, Thailand: Thai Department of Mental Health, Thai Ministry of Public Health.
Thai Institute of Public Health (1998). The Second National Health Examination Survey: 1996-1997. Nonthaburi, Thailand: Thai Institute of Public Health.
Sukhatunga, K., Kowasint, C., Phatthrayuttawat S., Chantra, J., Chaiyasit, W., Bunnagulrote, K., & Imaroonrak, S. (2006). Norms of the Advanced Progressive Matrices (APM) in Thai students age 12-18 years old. Journal of Thai Clinical Psychology, 37, 1-10.
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Well, there you go. The mean IQ in Thailand appears according to the statistics which you use, not to be 89 at all but a towering 93. Excellent. According to the statistics you use. It can quite easily be demonstrated using some of the same selective statistics you use, the mean IQ in Thailand is actually less that 88. As with all things statistical, it requires a certain honesty not to selectively use or manipulate numbers.
You then go on to say that I claim a correlation between IQ and the propensity to gossip, but I doubt you can show where I said that. Please don’t make things up, it makes you look even more dishonest.
“Just as you look down upon the denizens of sexpat forums, I sneer at laymen cranks who stridently inflict their crackpot theories in the comment sections of academic blogs.
In the vernacular of the last decade, you’ve just been ethered, son.”
Oh please. Try to retain some semblance of dignity at least. If you’re going to get all rappy on us, than at least try to accurately reflect what I actually wrote in amongst your verbal gesticulations. Duh. And please don’t call me son, that just takes away whatever credibility was left in the rant, little though it already was and identifies you as just another sullen baby-boomer who never quite managed to find the right sqyare hole. If you don’t agree, then it’s better to just say Í don’t agree’, rather than voluntarily identify yourself with sexpats, barstool cowboys and other human flotsam and detritus in the mistaken belief that someone might be impressed.
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The mendaciousness expressed in your reply is breathtaking in its scope. At no point to you actually point to any sort of empirical data to support your claims or deflate mine. It was just four paragraphs of whiny deflection and unwarranted assumptions. Baby Boomer? Nice try, I was born in 1977. Selective statistics? I provided every major survey of intelligence conducted in Thailand for the past decade, with links to the original study, and I defy you to find another.
Additionally, I don’t have to “show” where you claimed a correlation between low IQ and gossip, it’s right their in your own words up-thread, and I quote, “Many people do not recognise that in a primitive country such as Thailand, where the mean intelligence is very low and communications are hampered by incompetence and a lack of social responsibility, then gossip is one of the major means of communications, and it is remarkably effective, according to my own observation anyway”. To anyone who is a native speaker of English implicature contained in that statement is clear, and only someone arguing in bad faith, like you, would deny it.
Finally, being the humorless misanthrope you are, you respond to a quip with such strident wailing that it is impossible to parody. Thus, I’ll just hang you on your own words again:
Let me give you a lesson in implicature, son. You are implying that only you can take a particular rhetorical tone and that anyone who gives you a taste of your own medicine is “human flotsam and detritus” who hasn’t accomplished anything in their life.
And since pedigree is so important to you, Morgan, allow me to re-introduce myself: Dr. Lleij Samuel Schwartz, Assistant Professor of Applied Linguistics and TESOL at Southern New Hampshire University. Department chair before the age of 40 and co-director of an institute that employs over 30 faculty members, including a laboratory devoted to the study of adult second language acquisition. Among other projects, I am currently working with my friend and colleague, Dr. Saeed Aden of Harvard University on the final draft of an article comparing the challenges facing educational administrators in the south of Thailand with those in post-conflict Somalia, of which we were debating providing a summary for this very site.
I await your dropping the mask of anonymity, “Morgan,” so that we can all marvel at the sublime breadth and depth of your intellectual contributions. I, mean, surely, you can’t be just some crank on the Internet, can you, Morgan?
At this point, I would like to speak to Nich and company. New Mandala makes a big deal out of the fact that it is an “academic blog” and in a private correspondence, Nich once wrote to me that he envisions that the comment section is akin to the question-and-answer section at an academic seminar. As such, I would imagine that comments containing reference to empirical data and attempt at rational argumentation are valued over comments expressing unsupported claims and outright bigotry. While individual scholarly disciplines vary in the leeway given to express learned wit in one’s authorial voice, a fact in which I take full advantage, I ask that a bon mot or two, in the service of a bit of fun in the midst of an honest attempt to address an extremely flawed argument not be confused with the unscholarly tone of “Morgan,” which contributes nothing useful to the greater conversation on the topic. In the future, I ask that the editors pay more attention to Nich’s vision and judge a potential comment as the moderator of a Q&A session at an academic conference would. Would a moderator allow a “Morgan” to dominate the allotted time with his or her crackpot theorizing and personal sniping, much less to do so under cover of a nom de plume? I seriously doubt it. I ask that such courtesies be taken with my good-faith contributions, and that you will not allow “Morgan” to continue his or her spit-flecked rant.
Thank you.
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Keep it civil chaps and chapesses, scholars don’t need (or shouldn’t need) to have weeing contests, and dodgy arguments don’t help anything or anyone. As for psychometrics, that field has enough detractors on a good day, probably better not to shout it from the rooftops… I wouldn’t be boasting about it anyway.
Nobody expects everyone to agree, but having formal qualifications ought to mean they everyone is at least civil, even if robust – so long as you aren’t Richard Dawkins that is. And in respect of the last comment posted, in Thailand, where matters affecting face are concerned (and IQ is most definitely one of those), you can’t – or shouldn’t – state anything with confidence, or that anything else is false, utterly or otherwise, this isn’t amateur hour.
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Oh? If there are so many detractors than perhaps it should be shouted from the rooftops. Isn’t the whole purpose of the empirical research tradition to use data to falsify premises? If you have such data to falsify Stephen Pinker’s claim that IQ is the most empirically supported construct within all of the social sciences, I’d love to read it.
That is a good point, actually. Which is why I provided links to the actual studies so that one may examine them for his or herself to identify any methodological flaws. Barring that, a charge of malfeasance on the part of the researchers is a serious one; unless you have actual evidence of the researchers of the study manipulating data, you have no leg to stand on when dismissing their findings, particularly, under cover of anonymity. Indeed, only “amateurs” would claim that findings which do not support their preconceived notions were a result of de facto cultural bias on the part of the researchers or participants.
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Dear Lleij Samuel Schwartz:
Thank you so much for your additional comments. As a consequence of those, the appeal to Nick Farrelly embedded in one of your posts, and an unsolicited email received, I have spent some time looking into the self-history which you posted, and explored some other of the altercations you have got into over time on NM.
It’s been interesting, thanks for your comments. I shall not be responding to any more of your posts. Ever. I wish you well personally and academically. Good luck to you.
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Ones suspects the Magic I.Q. Machine was pointed backwards.
An article on gossip and danger with regard to king and junta raises charges of Oriental Despotism (v. Oriental Nice); I am More Revolutionary than Thou (Or I know someone who is more revolutionary than thou, and let me tell you what is relevant … blank); Why I Know More than the Author (or anyone) about Thailand (blank); Any More Mention of *** or *** Girlie, and You’re Really Gonna get a Dose of Uncle Professional Creepy!; No, It’s Uncle Civil Creepy!; Your Piece is Irrelevant to the Lives and Beliefs of 70 Million Thai People, Whom I Really Represent (blank); Tell Me Those Sources (and I’ll get them killed).
Occam was Idiot AND he had a low I.Q.!
Prostitution as part of dominant culture? Royal abuse of bodies, male or female, connected to the junta’s abuse of same? Gossip as entrenched and unanalyzed political dynamic?
Balderdash!
I am not a troll.
Signed,
Anonymous
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There is new gossip … https://www.strategypage.com/qnd/thai/articles/20170316.aspx … which I relay courtesy of Political Prisoners in Thailand. Is it interesting that this new gossip calls on an Andrew MacGregor Marshall skill set for picking through? Rather than Christine’s? Note the way that Taksin figures in this story and how much greater the stakes seem to be that are being negotiated.
I have looked several times for hints that Google can find corroboration that Christine’s tandem skydive is an active rumor. I don’t find anything. But if the King is playing in both realms, the salacious and the high-stakes political, then the salacious gossip may well be something he is manipulating, and we are … not trolls, but bait swallowers. … And the gossip is still all that has been said of it.
(Sorry if that has all been said above.)
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“Giles comes from an elite family” – yes. But his British mother was a left- wing socialist. The fundamental problems with Gile’s views / “analysis” are that they are hard-core classic ’70’s UK Trotskyist, which place ALL emphasis on the Thai “working class” as vanguard. NOT ONLY is Thai Royalist “gossip” rejected as TOTALLY “irrelevant” – despite it being an indicator of important power plays – but so ALSO is the HIGHLY important question of REGIONAL identity. THIS is a MAJOR explosive issue – not only in relation to the vexed question of whether Thailand’s majority Isaarn remains part of “Thailand”. But also regarding ethnic minorities such as the Lahu. Eg. teen Lahu rights activist has just been murdered
by Prayut’s military.
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Christine – I kinda get what you are saying about sexism, etc.! Or what Giles says re. class. But it seems to me the OVER-RIDING issue is now NOT EVEN ROYALISM : it is REGIONALISM. This country is going to blow itself apart – what is happening in Patani, is about to spread.
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Agree. Though I think that the tipping point has now been passed. After proclaiming that the government is NOT broke, and maintaining the fatuous claim that submarines are any more use than a feather hat, the government is now discussing and proposing serious new taxes, like 100THB on a packet of fags and 1000THB on a soapie (that’ll really tick off the barstool brigade).
I think the process we both appear to believe will happen, is now inevitable. I for one will shed no fears if Thailand blows itself into small pieces, and I doubt the world would scarcely notice. Law and order has already broken down, and juxtaposing that with the corruption and incompetence of the police and armed forces makes for a certain amount of inevitability. IMHO.
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@ Michael Wilson:
“That is why it is so fantastic to attribute so much power to one man, never mind to the one institution that he operates within.”
Hmmm. Not sure you’re right about this. The amount of power wielded by any person is a function of how many people will do his bidding if push comes to shove – and of course how many of those have guns, ridiculous hats (especially the dopey ones that look like cycling helmets, they always make me snigger) – or big boots.
The absentee landlord, by this measure, probably does wield more power than any other person in Thailand.
To Thailands, eternal shame.
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“One suspects the more negative commentators on this site, particularly the anonymous trolls, are not in much danger from the junta.”
Not all anonymous posters are trolls and it would be a mistake to make that equation. Not an uncommon mistake, but a mistake non-the-less.
Anonymous posters probably are not in much danger from the junta, and that is precisely because they are anonymous and take care to conceal their identity. Failing to do so in a forum known to be surveilled by or which can reasonable be suspected to be surveilled by the government or representatives of the government (as NM definitely is) is folly, to think otherwise is naive, even though the IT capability of Thais is extremely moot.
Unconscious behaviours are generally obvious to the trained eye. Some folk find security in a hazardous world by using an alias, others by obfuscating their meaning in arcane or nearly impenetrable (without a key) language and symbolism. In my opinion, the former is generally the more appropriate – and, I would argue, reflects better upon the author where cleverness is sought to be implied rather than a necessary selectiveness of audience achieved; otherwise it’s a crude cryptography at best.
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In what way is Christine’s article “Orientalist” ? Please define what you mean by that term. Under current definitions, it seems she is NOT.
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I was responding to Morgan’s comment, his comment is the epitome of racist and orientalist.
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I can’t agree.
Gray’s “anatomy” of what constitutes the “essence of contemporary Thai politics” is a perfect example of contemporary orientalism, replete with “essential ideas about
the Orient – its sensuality, its tendency to despotism, its aberrant mentality, its habits of inaccuracy, its backwardness”. (Orientalism, p.205)
Morgan Le Fey, on the other hand, represents the distillation of farang expat racism as it is smeared all over discussion forums dealing with Thailand.
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Now, now, Michael, if you can’t be pleasant, then it’s better to be silent.
It’s a feature of political correctness nowadays, to exploit the natural tendency among most people to want to be liked. Personally I don’t care either way, but most people do, and the politically correct brigade is able to bully people using this simple principle – and if they don’t share the very bigoted and not very bright ideas that underlay political correctness, they try to make vulnerable people toe the line by abusing them and causing them to feel they aren’t liked.
It’s a primitive strategy, the result of a a primitive response when confronted with more diverse opinions they don’t understand, but hey, we all do what we feel is right.
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Allow me to correct you on a couple of minor points Michael: Firstly, I am not a man, I am the other thing. Secondly, my name is not Morgan Le-Fey, it is Morgan, though I understand why you erred. I’m not actually sure who Le-Fey is.
If I were of the politically correct persuasion, I would probably have to wax all euphemistic and semi-intelligent and say ‘you were nearly right (duh!)’.
Since I am not a PC person though,life is altogether simpler, so I can just say you are wrong. On both counts.
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There’s a difference between being a racist and refusing to be cringeworthily politically correct.
I am the latter, it’s a question of dignity, and I refuse point blank to term people who have a different view to mine as racists. Probably makes me dismissive of sub-average IQ’s though.
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“Cringeworthily politically correct” is a dog whistle for a racist and you are. Obviously you aren’t going to be taken seriously. Hope this helps.
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I shall not try to abuse or insult you because you don’t share my view, viva la difference. One of the most obvious lunacies of the politically correct brigade is that it’s actually racist to observe that black people have dark skin. Crazy huh?
It’s a useful reflection that many (perhaps most) people who are lamentably politically correct are that way (as is the case with many psychological affectations) because they’ve learned that it delivers a feel-good reward of feeling superior to other, less enlightened folk. It’s bogus of course, but I suppose that hardly matters.
Still, if it floats your boat then it’s good – right? We all do what makes us feel good.
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So, Morgan, what is your IQ? Or your EQ? Checking the Mensa registry.. your full name?
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IQ and EQ are related, which you doubtless know.
I think checking the mensa registry would be a very good idea. My IQ (like many) has been variously measured over my lifetime. I have no intention of saying what it has been measured at because that’s just a weeing contest and I don’t feel the need to engage in any of those. It’s higher than the admission threshold for Mensa Int, but I’m not going to say what that is either, you can look it up.
Individually, IQ doesn’t necessarily mean very much, some years ago, the person with the highest IQ in Britain was a dustman, who was quite a lot brighter than most University professors and academics, and me, I’m not in his class.
IQ is a broad measure of intellectual ability but there are many tests because intellectual ability takes different forms. Statistically, it’s a useful indication of the intellectual capacity of a population, otherwise there’d be no point in measuring it, but it usually fits with informal perceptions of a population if they’re impartial, and does have ramifications across all societies.
I do not publish my name or any other personal details on the internet. Nor should you.
I regret that my opinions (which it is my habit to express honestly and forthrightly) have ruffled one or two feathers on NM.
Actually, that’s not true, I don’t actually give a toss, though I grant that opinions are often more readily accepted if they are presented in a manner which strokes the ego of the recipient. There are many branches of academia and management (if there is a difference between those two things) which absolutely depend on ego-stroking, as well as a few which do not. That reflects society as a whole though, so it can hardly be controversial. Not what I do though. A spade is a spade and there’s no merit in calling it a long-handled digging implement unless you have some kind of hang-up with the word ‘spade’, which I don’t.
Enjoy your day, I won’t be responding to any more comments if I think they’re drifting or are off-topic – as this is. Even though I acknowledge the satisfactions that sometimes come from slagging off the messenger rather than the message, it doesn’t speak highly of the intelligence of the slagger-off.
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“I would like to serve the nation, religion, and the monarchy, which I revere and worship, until my life ends, wherever I am on this Earth,”
Thaksin Shinawatra’s lastest statment on the monarchy.
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Thaksin saying what Thaksin believes his audience would like to hear. Thaksin was (and probably still is) a very dishonest man, but let’s be honest, Thailand is a very dishonest country by western standards – or they’re not very skilled at hiding it, that could be true.
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This is an ignorant, silly – almost stupid – stereotyping of Thaksin’s latest statement. It could equally be read as encouragement of Thailand’s new King’s behind-the-scenes reconciliation efforts, which everyone knows are on- going. Thaksin here is probably staking out his bargaining position. For someone of your self-congratulatory high IQ Morgan – it is surprising you have n’t figured this out. Or are you simply a “dustman” ?
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Morgan – if so many Thais have such “sub-average IQs” – how come so many Thais are so adept at scamming so many of your IQ-superior farang ?
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Your real opinion of Thais is wonderfully expressed in your own post:
“how come so many Thais are so adept at scamming so many…”
Sometimes you can’t believe what people write when slagging off the legitimate opinions of others, which they don’t choose to share. But I do not try to insult you just because I don’t happen to share your opinions Chris, it’s an education thing. Many people, when deciding to accept evidence of low IQ – and other characteristics, compare the IQ with themselves – this is human nature and it’s a useful mechanism for ensuring that, in general, birds of a feather flock together, an evolutionary advantage.
Still, your comment was very revealing of what you really believe, and by extension, what your actual experience of Thais has been, I’m just sorry it had to be so painful a learning experience for you.
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Hi everyone. Associate editor Mish here. The comments section is getting ridiculously inflammatory and I am not going to approve any further comments that are simply keyboard warrior attacks against other commenters. Come on. Please be examples for the many young scholars like myself who read this website to educate ourselves about the Southeast Asian region. This is simply getting out of hand; I don’t ask for all discussion to be 100% pleasant 100% of the time because given the serious themes of many articles on New Mandala friction and tension is bound to arise, but how you choose to manifest that IS up to the adult readers who actively comment and participate on this forum. If you have any complaints or concerns please contact me at mish.khan@anu.edu.au and justify why you think getting the last round of personal abuse in against another user is so important. Otherwise, keep it directly relevant to the article.
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Dear All,
Can we all at least agree that the skydiving dalliance is just a load of nonsense? I mean, really, it is just too far fetched and ridiculous to be true. This much really should be more than self-evident to just about anyone with their wits about them.
There are, of course, no end of more credible incidents that attest to V’s “intemperate” behavior. The guys a disgrace, plain and simple.
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