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Today Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul (р╕Шр╕▒р╕Щр╕вр╣Мр╕Рр╕зр╕╕р╕Тр╕┤ р╕Чр╕зр╕╡р╕зр╣Вр╕гр╕Фр╕бр╕Бр╕╕р╕е, details on his case are here) learned his unlucky fate: he was sentenced to 13 years for transgressing Thailand’s draconian lese majeste law and breaching the Computer Crimes Act. A previous New Mandala post on his predicament, with a relevant picture, is available from the archive. And this article highlights the disappointments of the day.
Perhaps Thai authorities have yet to notice that their stern efforts to lock up political opponents come at a price. Hefty sentences for lese majeste provide ample argumentative fodder for those countless Thai citizens who resent the post-coup political landscape and cry foul at their persistent inability to have their voices heard.
I expect that many who would otherwise find little common cause with radical Reds will be deeply perplexed, and even angered, by this decision. If there is a government strategy at play here then, as I have written in the past, it is “…a strategy for criminalising, and thus alienating and radicalising, political discussion”.
Do Thai authorities imagine that these years-long sentences go un-noticed?
Of course not. They hope that discussions, both at home and abroad, will be further contrained once everyone digests this latest attack on political speech.
At the same time, and much more significantly, does somebody out there really think this will prove the best way to “protect” Thailand’s monarchy?
I expect that many who would otherwise find little common cause with radical Reds will be deeply perplexed, and even angered, by this decision.
I might be a bit pessimistic here, but I have to disagree with you on this. Not many Thais will notice about Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul 13 years sentence since most news outlet will never report about the case thus very limit number of people will even know about it. Worst, some might actually despite him.
However, I do agree with it will previde ammunition for those who against the law and thus word of mouth will have to be the only mean of spreading the news.
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What’s there left to say about Thailand’s “Democrat Party” led by the Eton/Oxford UK citizen Abhisit……….poor showing, poor form, dragging the Thailand brand into the sewer…..making Thaksin in retrospect look like a “shining beacon of hope”.
Thirteen years hard prison time for a family man and father who neither posted the supposed LM comments or even administered the website in question.
It’s is shameful…..too bad Mr. Abhisit appears to have no shame….
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Sentencing Kenny and his young son to 13 years of mysery is a crime in itself. Shame on those who think this is justice. We love you Kenny!
Always with you Kenny.
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“Not many Thais will notice about Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul 13 years sentence since most news outlet will never report about the case thus very limit number of people will even know about it. Worst, some might actually despite him.” It’s been reported by The Nation, Manager, Prachatai and Daily News at least, that I’ve seen. Notably most comments by Thai Nation readers I’ve seen are celebratory. It’s quite sickening really, I mean it’s one thing to argue the law is necessary to protect the King, but it’s another thing to be delighted about the sentence and seeing a man’s life destroyed. Although if you argue that these laws are necessary, then I suppose it follows that you’d be satisfied to see that the laws are working properly and people are being jailed & silenced.
Anyway, as Nick notes, the law does nothing to protect the King and is just another step towards a republic, I’d suggest.
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Its highly ironic when Thai politicians are sworn into office and promise to serve King and country but yet commit treason through the rampant bribery and corruption that runs through their ranks.
People are imprisoned for their words yet Thai politicians can steal from the nation and continue on with impunity.
Stealing from the nation brings more shame to the monarchy than words in blogs . The government is meant to serve King and nation yet they blatantly do the opposite.
The laws should be changed to cover treasonable acts of bribery and corruption that ultimately fail to protect not only the reputation of the nation but that of the King who endorses governments who are elected into office. That they lie to his face should be reason enough for them to receive lengthy prison sentences as their actions are far more destructive than those of words on the net .
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As commented above, Abhisit and the Democrats can take no pride in the way the LM law is being used on their watch. Of course this also applies to the Palace and the Privy Council.
Having said that will either the Puea Thai protest about this during the no confidence debate, or the UDD leadership speak out in support of their supporter? How about ex-PM Thaksin, safe in exile, will he make any comments about the LM law or does he think it may come in handy if he returns.
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“The laws should be changed to cover treasonable acts of bribery and corruption that ultimately fail to protect not only the reputation of the nation but that of the King who endorses governments who are elected into office”
It’s not only elected governments that he endorses, and pointing out that fact is probably illegal based on the way the LM laws are currently administered.
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Disgusting. The aphichon/ammat really seem to be intent on provoking a revolt against them.
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What Les Abbey said:
I kind of agree, maybe PT and mrT should say something about the resurgence of LM charges, at least it will offer a differing standpoint.
More importantly when John #5 commented above, I remembered what Frank Anderson had written here a while back:
Given that politicos, military men, and police have ‘pledged’ to the King to do their jobs honestly –> they should be then charged with LM for all types of extortion and corruption. <– because what they are doing is real LM
Agreed?
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c6
“Having said that will either the Puea Thai protest about this during the no confidence debate, or the UDD leadership speak out in support of their supporter? How about ex-PM Thaksin, safe in exile, will he make any comments about the LM law or does he think it may come in handy if he returns.”
Plainly, PT and UDD and Thaksin all have their focus on PT achieving success in the promised* election. Whatever may be their views on LM (and the CCA), it’s clear that there are precious few votes to be gained in opposing it – and plenty to lose when any principled stance against it is portrayed by opponents as further evidence of being anti-monarchy (does anyone here seriously believe they wouldn’t portray it as that?).
It ain’t pretty. It is embarrassing – though not to many Thai voters (or even most redshirts, I suspect). It’s also realpolitik.
As to whether Thaksin thinks those laws “may come in handy if he returns”….. it wouldn’t surprise me if he did. Under current circumstances, I doubt he’d go further than Abhisit and his panel to regulate the application of LM laws. Unlike Abhisit, he just might follow through on the fine words by actually doing something.
* Until the election actually happens, I’ll go on referring to it as “promised” rather than “upcoming”.
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BTW, as I see it hasn’t yet been mentioned here, I should point to FACT’s comment on the judgment:
[FACT comments: Let’s get something straight–Tantawut was not the NorPhorChorUSA’s webmaster which makes his conviction spurious in the extreme. We attended some of Tantawut’s trial last month and, from our own commonsense observation, we find his conviction beyond belief. In the trial sessions we attended, Tantawut’s defence clearly proved he was not the webmaster for the NorPhorChorUSA website–he had no administrator or password access to the site. Tantawut was only hired as the website’s designer and provided no content to the site. Police and govt witnesses proved no evidence to the contrary.
However, Tantawut’s real crime was living in Thailand, making him an easy target, unlike the NorPhorChor’s real webmasters who all lived overseas. After all, someone needed to be punished to send a clear message to Thai netizens not to cross the imaginary lèse majesté line. 98% of those charged with lèse majesté in Thailand are convicted simply because of blind justice. As he sought to prove his innocence, even after 10 months in gaol without bail, rather than cave in and plead guilty out of fear and shame, Tantawut received no dispensation from the courts. Shame on Thailand!]
http://facthai.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/web-designer-sentenced-to-13-years-for-lese-majeste-bangkok-post/
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The lese majeste law should be abolished right away. It is one of the most inhumane law which should not have existed in any society. It is used as a tool to forbid or suppress those who think and see differently. No democratic country uses this outmoded law any longer.
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Here’s a link to a post on Political Prisoners Thailand blog detailing the scandalous lack of any actual evidence presented in the prosecution’s “case” against Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul.
Imagine 13 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, with no credible evidence presented in court.
The “Thailand Brand” is transforming into the “Police State Brand”…….”Land of Smiles” is turning into the “Land of Frowns”.
The incompetence is staggering, the ethics are non-existent and the “legal process” has become a joke.
https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/more-on-tanthawuts-lese-majeste-conviction/
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Thailnd has suffered this insane and atrocious law for so long. It must be done away with completely or democracy will never prevail against all odds.
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You’ve got to hand it to some of the amart dolts – they certainly know how to embarrass their King, and America’s President – who has been planning a Thai visit towards end of this year.
Now Obama is certain to face highly embarrassing questions, especially as the web master just sentenced did not post those comments posted by others in the US – beacon of Free Speech.
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The “lack of any actual evidence” should be highlighted by the fact that there was no interruption in the presence of “Red Eagle” on NorporchorUSA at the time of Khun Thanthawut’s arrest.
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Let us all remember how the current Arab revolutions started – when finally, a poor man in Tunisia said :
I’ve had enough – and set himself, and the region on fire.
Thailand is now, very close to that.
One more – outrageous LM charge – will likely be the trigger.
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“One more – outrageous LM charge – will likely be the trigger.”
I don’t know whether this will be the “trigger” — but does anybody care about what will happen when it is Khun Chiranut’s turn to disappear in prison for decades?
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The law is made to hide the elephant in the room. The fact that something stinks fiercely in the land of lies, says much about the elephant, no?
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Chris Beale @17 said, “One more – outrageous LM charge – will likely be the trigger.” Chris Beale on 12 March commentend (on the post “Tej Bunnag shows the way”) that “defamation of the Head of State needs to be avoided, and penalised.”
Same Chris Beale? Are you saying a LM charge is okay as long as it’s not “outrageous”. Where do you draw the line? Whom do you appoint to draw the line?
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Some do labor under the delusion that there ever has been the ideal of democracy in Thailand, an ideal that invariably falters everywhere, regardless the abstract notion is attractive even if not unattainable. Human greed and corruption makes it a pipe dream.
Thailand is ruled by the military, democracy is the facade they sell the populace as any “elected” government that wants to survive keeps up army budgets.
By eschewing their cynical allegiance the PTB demonstrate publicly their loyalty, as such the lives of innocent serfs are destroyed to propagate the careers of the power brokers. Best to shut up and keep saluting.
The Reds tried rebellion, they were gunned down like dogs, just like every previous time. Change may come but it will be bloody and in all likelihood would be usurped by a face lift of the same old guard.
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BKK Lawyer # 20 :
I don’t think my different comments are inconsistent, nor incompatible.
1) in this case :
“Tantawut’s defence clearly proved he was not the webmaster for the NorPhorChorUSA website–he had no administrator or password access to the site. Tantawut was only hired as the website’s designer and provided no content to the site”.
2) Personally I think Thailand would do well to copy Indonesia – where the maximum penalty for “insults” to the Head of State is 3 years jail. Rarely applied.
Realistically – unless there is a revolution – I think a reform going some way towards the Indonesian model, is the best that can be hoped for.
Perhaps some sort of hybrid will be the eventual outcome – i.e. rich Thais who “insult” the Head of State would pay Singapore-style huge defamation costs, but poor Thais unable to pay, end up with 3 years jail. That would be a massive improvement on the thoroughly unjust sentences currently handed out.
There IS a problem in the Thai case – in that the Head of State, unlike an ordinary individual – has no right of reply to defamation.
Surely you as a lawyer – BKK Lawyer – can see the injustice in this.
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@22
“There IS a problem in the Thai case – in that the Head of State, unlike an ordinary individual – has no right of reply to defamation.
Surely you as a lawyer – BKK Lawyer – can see the injustice in this.”
^^^
You mean the King cannot respond to his critics?
First of all that is not true. People around him (Prem, Sumet, etc) constantly defends him in public. Plus the King himself makes regular speeches at several occasions, criticizing the government and such. While this actually violates the constitution, it is still assumed in the country that the King has the right to say anything.
Second, even if the King really cannot say anything, why is that specifically a problem in the Thai case?
Pardon me but as I see it Thai monarchy has way more privileges than any other royals.
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Paul #23 :
This is unfair.
I challenge you to cite ONE example where HMK has been able to respond DIRECTLY to what has clearly been direct defamation of
Him ?
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chris beale – 22
There IS a problem in the Thai case – in that the Head of State, unlike an ordinary individual – has no right of reply to defamation.
The article 112 is there to make all the criticism impossible, which mean anyone can go and defense the king, willingly or not, that is totally out of bound of “rule of law” (the plaintiff didn’t file the charge). Furthermore, I don’t see any other country’s head of state (except N.Korea and maybe Burma) having issue with being criticize or defamed. Its that weird for “democratic” country like Thailand to be living in atmosphere similar to N.Korea (although not as extreme.)
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@Chris
No, you are unfair.
I cannot provide any example of defamation because doing so, I would violate the lese majeste myself, and I’m not prepared to do that.
You cannot deny the fact that the Thai King makes autonomous, uncensored speeches without the government(s)’ approval, which sometimes (and to some, always), have influences in politics. Somsak Jiamtherasakul (pardon my Romanization) illustrated this on the seminar on 10th December 2010.
Even more, you were defending lese majeste under the excuse of protecting the ‘head of state’. Most lese majeste charges are applied ppl criticizing his role as a monarch, not as the mundane, powerless Mr Bhumibol. Sumet, Prem, the whole privy council, and whatever officer that directly serve him, is part of the institution itself. Sumet’s recent spin on the ownership of the CPB, therefore, should count as the Monarchy’s own defense to criticism.
Why would I bother doing anything so ungraceful that would bring me even more criticism myself if I can have my servants do it for me? How else do you maintain the image of being kind, benevolent, and undisturbed by your subjects’ ‘childish, naughty, and uninformed lash outs’ while in fact, you possibly are not?
I challenge you to demand the King to respond to defamation himself instead of having lese majeste law arresting people for it. Many people and I will be much happier that way.
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Tarrin #25 – yes : I agree – article 112 is a very unjust law, which should be revoked.
It is also a very stupid law – not least in that it is wide open to cyber-attack, via a bot-net massive overload of the Thai LM system.
But what can replace it ?
It is highly unlikely Thai conservatives – who may well be the majority of the population – will agree to reform, unless there are strong safeguards protecting the Head of State.
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Paul #26 Re:
“@Chris
No, you are unfair.
I cannot provide any example of defamation because doing so, I would violate the lese majeste myself, and I’m not prepared to do that.
You cannot deny the fact that the Thai King makes autonomous, uncensored speeches without the government(s)’ approval, which sometimes (and to some, always), have influences in politics.”
1) Paul – they would have to identify you. I wish them luck, searching through all the “Pauls”. Start with McCartney.
then go onto St. Paul, etc.
2) I can not deny that Britain’s Prince Charles makes autonomous, uncensored speeches about talking to plants, about
London’s architectural “carbuncles”, about the Dalai Lama, about all sorts of things “without the government’s approval”, which may or may not have an influence on politics.
I can not deny that Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth instead seems more interested in corgies and horse-races. So what ?
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Plainly no more than a sidebar to the matter of LM in Thailand, but it does look as if LM in Europe is well on the way to being officially a thing of the past:
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2011/03/end-of-lese-majeste-in-europe.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/15/spain-wrongly-jailed-basque-leader
http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/2372
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chris beale – 28
1) Paul – they would have to identify you. I wish them luck, searching through all the “Pauls”. Start with McCartney.
then go onto St. Paul, etc.
The prosecutor fail to even prove that Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul is in fact the webmaster of NorPorChorUSA, and still he was found guilty. You seems to forget that the article 112 is so broad that actually they can found you guilty simply my skimming trough your face.
But what can replace it ?
First, do we even need to replace it? Second, can’t we replace it with something milder like 1-3 months jail term and not 3-10 years and more definite meaning of “defaming”?
I think majority of Thai public is impartial (meaning they are neither conservative or liberal) as long as you get to governing power you can pretty much do anything (look at the palm oil scandal)
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Some of the thread followers may be interested in a new book:
Dangerous Talk: Scandalous, Seditious, and Treasonable Speech in Pre-Modern England by David Cressy. I quote from Amazon:
“Royal regimes from the house of Plantagenet to the house of Hanover coped variously with “crimes of the tongue” and found ways to monitor talk they deemed dangerous. Their response involved policing and surveillance, judicial intervention, political propaganda, and the crafting of new law. In early Tudor times to speak ill of the monarch could risk execution. By the end of the Stuart era similar words could be dismissed with a shrug. This book traces the development of free speech across five centuries of popular political culture, and shows how scandalous, seditious and treasonable talk finally gained protection as “the birthright of an Englishman.” The lively and accessible work of a prize-winning social historian, it offers fresh insight into pre-modern society, the politics of language, and the social impact of the law.”
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LM is a relic of absolutism. In a democracy you don’t get punished for criticising the leader. In Acton’s words: “All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Almost all great men are bad men.” Telling the truth about leaders, even the best ones, almost always involves criticism. LM means the truth gets punished, and stupid, grovelling ignorance prevails.
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Chris. You clearly never listened to the King’s speech. You probably never heard of sufficiency economy as well. Your comparison is just way off.
Whether they can or cannot identify me is not really a factor. The real point is that since it is illegal, finding example of defamation alone is hard enough already, let alone one that the King personally reply to. It just won’t be circulated around. Hence your challenge is unfair, and does not prove or disprove anything.
Anyway, I believe my last reply already covered everything mentioned so far.
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Why would anyone find common cause with the Red shirts when it is just red shirts getting locked up? “Countless Thais,” no, you can count them, 30,000 to 60,000 – in a city of 12 million show up for these Thaksin rallies – which isn’t even 1% of Bangkok’s population, not to mention how much smaller this percentage is compared to Thailand’s 65 + million population. This is ochlocracy, not a people’s movement.
Just read the UDD’s propaganda –
http://2bangkok.com/09/RedPublications.shtml
– it is overtly subversive and treasonous and when you consider they are quite openly led by Thaksin Shinwatra who is has been supported by foreign interests ranging from Kenneth Adelman of Edelman PR, Robert Blackwill of BGR, James Baker’s PR firm, and now Robert Amsterdam, all who are tied to Western political and corporate interests, it most certainly does amount to treason punishable by at least imprisonment.
Thais and foreigners are figuring this out, which, in combination with the grotesque and continuous displays of violence, have wrung out the last drops of legitimacy the “red shirts” might cling to.
Academia’s job here at New Mandala seems to be to lend legitimacy to what is otherwise a paid lobbying effort with a street-presence.
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Thanks John Lilburne for the reference. I note it is to “pre-modern” England. That in itself is a commentary on Thailand’s current use of this draconian law.
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By the way, Political Prisoners in Thailand reports another case of lese majeste: http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/yet-another-lese-majeste-arrest/
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Tony, unless you don’t live in Thailand. I very much doubt you haven’t seen any REDs. Your estimation is very much delusions for a falling regime. Hoping that the reds dwindled.
Sadly, the opposite is true. I moved to a new neighborhood in the past year, and yet I still see more REDs than ever. It’s the yellows that are run hiding. Did you see their number on the telly?
Propaganda? We’ve been seeing it for the past 30+ yrs. On free TV, every effin’ day. In fact, I’d bet it’d be a guinness book world record, if anyone were to dare to report it in!
Ralph Kramden, the new case tells us that the ABC program & Wikileaks documents are lese majeste material. And the bail is half a mil? I still can’t believe the idiocy of this regime.
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“But what can replace it”
The simple amendment that most Thai’s should have no trouble accepting would be to make it that only the palace can make a LM charge. That would be a significant improvement
(and trials should be transparent, not secret).
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Tony – 34
Suddenly the “number” argument start to matter, where were you when TRT won 17 million vote? btw your 63 million population not going to work here since there were about 30 million legible voters.
Furthermore, “continuous displays of violence”? I mean you could be ghadism, I don’t know but looking else where, violence doesn’t seem to problem. There is literally a war in Libya now I dont see people complaining about “Those that go against Gaddafi lost legitimacy because they pick up arms”. Somehow, peaceful protest is only entitle to the red. (I’m not pro-violence btw, I just want to make a point)
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Nganadeeleg 38
“The simple amendment that most Thai’s should have no trouble accepting would be to make it that only the palace can make a LM charge. That would be a significant improvement”
That is unconstitutional in most societies (and in Thailand since 1932)
Be careful what you wish for….
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“That is unconstitutional in most societies (and in Thailand since 1932)”
Unconstitutional or not, it would still be a vast improvement on the current ‘system’.
(and it’s a relatively simple change that those ‘still in love’ would find difficult to argue against IMO)
btw, what’s a constitution worth in Thailand, other than toilet tissue?
(please don’t blame me – I’m just stating the obvious)
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Nganadeeleg 41
Do you prefer the executioners axe or a more modern “ciwilai” method such as a firing squad?
Perhaps in this enlightened era you’ll get a choice?
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[…] 15 marzo scorso il webmaster thailandese Tanthawut Taweewarodomkul e’ stato condannato a 13 anni di galera per aver violato la “l… e per aver offeso la […]
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