Comments

  1. “Another degree for Lee? It has come to my attention that the University of North Carolina has also decided to confer an honorary degree on Lee Kuan Yew. Perhaps the public relations debacle at the ANU may make them think twice about this. New Mandala readers may want to make their views known to UNC Chancellor Jame Moeser.”

    This is where transnational blogging networks would come in handy.

  2. “If they made a long term commitment to the “hill tribes” as stewards of the forests (making them citizens would be a good start) they could grow back the forests which would ameliorate the cycle of flood and drought, as well as cut back on the highland burning and accompanying “haze”, and make Northern Thailand begin to represent paradise, again. Everyone loves paradise… even Chinese and Western tourists!”

    “Stewards of the forests” sounds like a good way for them to maintain their identity and self-respect.

    There needs to be a zero tolerance policy against hilltribe racism in Thai schools and government. An appreciation of individual “hilltribe” groups (Akha, Lisu, Lahu, Karen,…) and their cultures and histories should be part of the curriculum. Otherwise, they will just become fundamentalist Christians because those are the people who give them a positive identity and self-esteem.

    Buddhism in Thailand does not seem very intent on capturing them as hilltribes, they have to change their identities and become Thais first. Pretty soon everyone will look and behave like they come from Bangkok and then Thailand will no longer be a diverse and interesting place.

    In Burma, on the other hand, the Buddhist scriptures have actually been translated into Karen. In Keng Tung in the Eastern Shan states Akha’s maintain a strong identity, although mostly along Catholic lines with Christmas being the big annual festival.

  3. nganadeeleg says:

    I base my opinion that the king DOES want the best for the country on what I have seen & read (including Handley).
    If he doesn’t want the best for the country, he sure spends a lot of time making speeches about it & trying to offer advice!

    Back to lese majeste – I would like to see the king personally intervene and also reiterate his 2005 speech that the law should not be taken seriously. The best solution would be to keep the law on the books, but make it that only the palace can press the charges – That should keep the royalists happy and also remove all the frivolous claims.
    The authorities should just charge Oliver on vandalism charges instead.

  4. Sawarin says:

    Oh I wish there are mathematicians out there to decipher my meaning to the others (why is it that mathematicians always get what I said 🙁

    I’m no good at turning thoughts into words, but let me try:

    anon: What is my argument on the king’s pardons? I don’t think I’ve made any! All I expressed is other pardons are easier to be granted, but not the one for the sentence passed by the lese-majeste law. Do I need to elaborate what lese-majeste law is for. C’mon this is boring. Please read my comments again. I’ve no objection to your observation regarding Pendragon’s case btw.

    Srithanonchai: Anderson-Thongchai– etc etc. have provided excellent studies on the ‘nation’ but their work dealt with the ‘how’ and the ‘what’ question (what is nation? how do the powerful invented it?, eg.) I don’t think they’ve asked the question of ‘when’. I think this is an important question as you can see that the monarchy, or the king to be precise, is popularly understood and treated as same as the ‘nation’ by many many Thais (on this note we have the same understanding ok?). This belief can’t be rootless. It must begin somewhere. In fact, we can put this question in the times of Chulalongkorn too. Understanding the nation as a modern construct that sprang out of the 19th century is good (in fact I kinda like it) but how the hell some traditional/ antique dimensions of it are here with us in the 21st century society? The monarchy of Thailand has the durable pre-modern characterisitc that trancends modernity (and possibly globalisation?). Think about it. I’m not speaking of the classic nation-building study or the rhetoric of kings saving the independence of Thailand — that’s another bore. Besides, Anderson/Thongchai and the crypto-colonial school have walked away from it for quite a while now. I hope people don’t get me as a royalist (again) on this ‘argument’ (for this I admit to be an argument).

    I’m dissatisfied with all institutions of the Thai state, the British state, and the French state. But I’m relatively satisfied with their people. My mind has been on the political exile for quite some time, and a few years ago I’ve decided to join a class of Cicero.

    Thanks for your exchange everyone.

  5. anon says:

    Fall and Sawarin, surely your arguments fall apart in the face of last year’s pardoning of Bradley Pendragon, the Australian who raped three little girls (the youngest of whom was 8, and one of whom was a cripple) and producing child rape pornography. The animal never expressed remorse for his crimes, and he certainly wasn’t helped by the Australian embassy.

    It certainly set a standard for what the King was willing to pardon and what crimes he was not willing to pardon.

  6. Jason says:

    Life in Singapore is just like George Owell’s “Animal Farm”.

    It start good and then the pigs decided that they rule and that their should walk on 2 legs (copy everything western) and the rest of the people are useless scums.

    Many Singaporeans just like animals in the animal farm have not realised what’s going on. 60% of the economy is Govt or Govt owned. So, if they or their family have a job related to the govt of any Govt linked companies, they have a ok life.

    Those that realised and try to do something were put to shame and at least more than 100K of them migrated to Australia over the last 10 yrs.

    It’s really unfolding like animal farm. Some animals escaped and they just import more indians & chinese to dilute the votes.

  7. Thai News says:

    In Thailand some people stopped TV from airing after all…

  8. Srithanonchai says:

    Asia watcher’s “In my opinion you simply cannot assume that the king even wants what’s best for the country – kings want what is best for kings!” combined with Sawarin’s puzzlement with the concept of nation. > One might remember that Ben Anderson called into question the standard version of King Chulalongkorn’s actions as being motivated by his desire to save the nation from being overtaken by colonial powers. Wrong, said Anderson. Chulalongkorn rather was motivated by securing the existence and future of the Chakry dynasty.

    See Anderson, Benedict R. O’G. 1978. “Studies of the Thai State: The State of Thai Studies.” In The Study of Thailand, ed. by Eliezer B. Ayal, pp. 193-247. Athens, Ohio: Ohio Center for International Studies, Southeast Asia Program. (Comments by Sulak Sivaraksa, pp. 248-252, and Clark Neher, pp. 253-257)

    This piece is still very much worth reading. In any case, it’s a classic. The latest translation was prepared by р╕Фр╕▓р╕гр╕┤р╕Щ р╕нр╕┤р╕Щр╕Чр╕гр╣Мр╣Ар╕лр╕бр╕╖р╕Щ with some assistance from Benedict Anderson. р╣Ар╕Ър╕Щр╣Ар╕Щр╕Фр╕┤р╕Др╕Чр╣М р╕нр╕▓р╕гр╣М. р╣Вр╕н. р╕Ир╕╡. р╣Бр╕нр╕Щр╣Ар╕Фр╕нр╕гр╣Мр╕кр╕▒р╕Щ. “р╕ир╕╢р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╣Др╕Чр╕в: р╕зр╕┤р╕Юр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╣Мр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕ир╕╢р╕Бр╕йр╕▓.” р╕Яр╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕Фр╕╡р╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ 1 (3):98-147, 2003.

  9. Srithanonchai says:

    Sawarin:

    Perhaps, the “nation” also needs to be put into the context of the ideological trinity of “nation, religion, monarchy.” Just as an illustration from the Sondhi protests that figured the nation as the highest good–thus the battle cry of the protests: ku chat (save the nation). At one of his addresses to his followers (here reported according to a DVD), Sondhi, an accomplished demagogue, aroused the audience by stating, “The people must be strong so that they can protect the King (phrachaoyuhua)! Chai rue mai chai? (Yes or no?) Audience: Chai! The people must be strong in order to prevent another person such as mister Thaksin from occurring again! Chai rue mai chai? (Yes or no?) Audience: Chai! When the people are strong, the Monarchy (phramahakasat) is strong. When the Monarchy is strong, then the religion (satsana) will be strong as well! Chai mai phi nong? (right?) Audience: Right! And when the religion is strong, then the nation (chat) will also be strong!” At this point, Sondhi’s voice almost cracked, and he banged his flat hand on the lectern. His rhetorical question of “chai rue mai chai phi nong” (yes or no) was met with a thunderous “Yes!” by the audience.

    As I see, your dissatisfaction with some sectors of Thai society doesn’t include the pub scene!

  10. Asia watcher says:

    Nnganadeeleg it was not my intention to suggest that no one in Thailand really likes the king only that it is extremely difficult to deduce this from the mere presence of pictures and so on. Similarly, if one were allowed to openly discuss the role of monarchy in Thailand today it is likely that many would not be so pleased about what they might find out. The king for example encourages self sufficiency whilst having a fortune amassed from businesses and so on that are anything but about self sufficiency.

    There will never be any serious political reform in Thailand while royal absolutism is part of the process. In my opinion you simply cannot assume that the king even wants what’s best for the country – kings want what is best for kings! Lèse majesté stays because without it the monarchy itself would have to go through a massive transformation or face the dustbin of history.

  11. John Francis Lee says:

    ‘ Admittedly, it’s too bad that he’s saying they spent too much. The wells have dried up completely around Chiang Rai this week, as they do before Songkran every year recently. ‘

    We have floods in the rainy season and drought in the hot season. If only we had some means to buffer the rainfall. To soak it up instead of letting it run off so precipitously when the skies open, and then to let it out when the hot season comes and it all dries up.

    What we need is a forest!

    I see that the present regime has cancelled the 10 year reforestation project of the previous regime. Said it had only planted 20,000 rai in its first 3 years and it didn’t look like it would meet its goal of millions of rai (3,000,000?) replanted at the rate it was going. CMU was called upon to come up with a new plan.

    The problem, of course, is follow through. They plant a bunch of trees and then let them die.

    If they made a long term commitment to the “hill tribes” as stewards of the forests (making them citizens would be a good start) they could grow back the forests which would ameliorate the cycle of flood and drought, as well as cut back on the highland burning and accompanying “haze”, and make Northern Thailand begin to represent paradise, again. Everyone loves paradise… even Chinese and Western tourists!

    This is exactly the sort of project that ought to taken up regionally, locally. The central government, the entrenched political class, will never do anything about such problems, other than allocate money for their solution… and then steal it.

  12. John Francis Lee says:

    ‘ Of course, if decisionmaking and financing was more decentralised and localised, and the project was not eaten clean by corruption, people could help themselves and central government help wouldn’t even be needed. ‘

    Amen.

  13. Srithanonchai says:

    Should be “cosmecratic”.

  14. melvin Lim says:

    Hi Pig Latin, I see your point. Protests, petitions are definitely good mediums to drive certain messages across. I agree with you and kl on that totally. I will not deny our lack of liberty in that aspect, even on blogs! Anyway, this ruling has become more or less a general sentiment ready to explode once PAP screws up something of major importance. I will take what you say into stride for sure. However, I also hope you understand what I meant when I mentioned a kind of ‘focus group polarity’ present in the atmosphere described in the above post. The diverse voices become polarized into an extreme one, spearheaded by certain charismatic leaders. haha … a whole load of theoretical bull huh? Nevertheless, if this is about politics and grabbing headlines etc … then perhaps the above protest is justifiable ..

  15. […] Stephen McCarthy in his book, The Political Theory of Tyranny in Singapore and Burma: Aristotle and the rhetoric of benevolent despotism, provides a good explanation on the Junta s promotion of Buddhism being a fear byproduct of … – more – […]

  16. Srithanonchai says:

    But before Sarit entered the scene, the monarchy certainly had lost a great deal of its “popularity”, no? Whose government actually introduced the policy of hanging the pictures of king and queen in shops, and what would happen to shopowners who did not do it, and who do not follow this practice today? It is not easy to tell honest admiration from tactical opportunism. The picture clearly is very mixed, and the imagined homogeneity of admiration rather seems to be an ideological product. As Asia watcher said, as long as only positive views are permitted, and criticism is suppressed, how can we know the “true” situation concerning what people really think and feel?

  17. “Apparently he still may be. The Thai people are very poorly served, as are the people around the globe, by their entrenched political classes.”

    Hopefullly the new Finance Minister will deliver on his promise:

    “He said the Finance Ministry would also look to assist low-income residents through state support to ease the impact of the slowing economy.”

    “I don’t want to concentrate on the overall economic growth figures. It’s more important to think about who has been affected [by the downturn],” Dr Chalongphob said, adding that state-owned banks would be encouraged to accelerate their lending programmes while maintaining overall credit quality.

    “During the Thaksin Shinawatra governments, the state gave too much [to the grassroots]. Now we have pulled back, but perhaps too quickly,” he said (Full article: )

    Admittedly, it’s too bad that he’s saying they spent too much. The wells have dried up completely around Chiang Rai this week, as they do before Songkran every year recently.

    TRT did promise public water but it seems to be the end of that dream. Of course, if decisionmaking and financing was more decentralised and localised, and the project was not eaten clean by corruption, people could help themselves and central government help wouldn’t even be needed.

  18. Pig Latin says:

    Furthermore, Chee Soon Juan was sacked by NUS for allegedly misappropriating research funds. This ruling quite controversial… What sort of university does the ANU want to associate itself with exactly? One that’s interests are impartial or gahmen driven? Haha…

  19. nganadeeleg says:

    Asia Watcher: Whilst I agree the lese majeste law should be removed, I think you are way off in your thinking regarding the feeling most Thai’s have for the king.
    Even Handley documents the admiration Thai’s have for the king – Handley also shows that this popularity for the royals goes back to before his coronation, as witnessed by the large crowds when the young Ananda & Bhumiphol visited Thailand for the first time.

    You don’t count pictures of the king and queen everywhere with loving him – are you implying they are somehow forced to show the pictures?
    How do you account for the large percentage of Thai’s outside the country also having a picture of HMK on prominent display in their homes?

    I am not brainwashed into loving the king – he is not perfect (no one is), but it is clear that he wants the best for his country and it is a shame the politicians continue to be such disappointments.

  20. Pig Latin says:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/t3htarik/244501235/

    ^ Protesting in Singapore ^

    Melvin, if your aware of them and your not doing anything then do you feel any of the guilt of Dr. LKY and son’s actions?

    I haven’t said Lee is a dictator, I am saying that he’s a tyrant. It’s not hip at all to attend protests here anymore… Haven’t you been to Australia for a while? We’re just as cosmocratic as Singapore!