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The two banners displayed at the Shah Alam Stadium during the Himpunan Sejuta Umat (Gathering of a million faithful) assembly on 22 October 2011 read “Say no to apostasy, don’t challenge the position of Islam” and “Together let’s prevent apostasy”.
The chief organiser of the assembly, Mohd Azmi Abdul Hamid, remarked that the gathering is meant to gather Muslims together to make a stand against the threats of apostasy.
The organizers and the participants of the assembly saw apostasy as serious threat even though, according to the Islamic Renaissance Front, “there has yet to be any well researched agreement on the actual number of apostates in Malaysia. The suggested numbers have ranged anywhere from 135 (according to Ustaz Ridhuan Tee) to 260,000 (according to Tan Sri Dr Harussani Zakaria).” In addition, the population census provided by the Statistic Department indicates that there “has not been a single Malay convert or apostate.” If this is true, then it is obvious that there is no substantial threat of apostasy to the Muslim community in the country.
Nonetheless, I wonder whether apostasy is univocally forbidden in Islam, as we are so often told by local Muslim politicians.
To find out, we conduct a literature review of the question, “should apostates be punished and apostasy from Islam disallowed?
Some Muslims, by referring to Qur’anic passages (such as 5.33, 5.54, 9.11-12, 16.106, and 22.11) and the Hadith (i.e. Sahih al-Bukhari), tell us that apostates should be punished and apostasy from Islam should be forbidden. Is this the only Islamic understanding on the issue without alternative?
In response to this, Abdullah Saeed, the Sultan of Oman Professor of Arab and Islamic Studies at the University of Melbourne, and his brother, Hasan Saeed, the Attoney-General of the Maldives, comment that, “The overall picture that emerges from a variety of verses in different contexts in the Qur’an is that apostasy is a ‘sin’ for which there is no temporal punishment.” [i] These Qur’anic verses and Hadith passages are referring to criminals who waged war against the early Muslim community in the ancient Arab, and not to any apostates.[ii]
The former Secretary General of the International Union for Muslim Scholars, Salim el-Alwa, representing the guild of Islamic scholarship remarks similarly, “We do not find in the texts of the noble Qur’an related to apostasy any temporal punishment [specified] for the apostate. However we find therein repeated threats and strong warnings of punishment in the Hereafter. […] Apostasy in the view of the Qur’an is a major sin even though Qur’anic verses do not impose a temporal punishment.”[iii]
Shabbir Akhtar, who once lectured at the International Islamic University, writes in his recent book, “In Muhammad’s day, private apostasy was commonplace; the Quran specifies no worldly penalty for it.”[iv]
Specifically on the Hadith, Mohammed Hashim Kamili, the Founding Chairman of the International Institute of Advanced Islamic Studies who was also Professor of Islamic Law and Jurisprudence at the International Islamic University from 1985 to 2004, comments that, “Hadith makes clear that the apostate must also boycott the community (mufariq li’l-jama’ah) and challenge its legitimate leadership, in order to be subjected to the death penalty.”[v]
To these Muslim scholars, there is a world of difference between mere apostates who renounce Islam and those who actively raise military campaign against the ancient Muslim community. The injunction to punish ‘apostates’ in the Qur’an and Hadith are referring to the latter, not the former.
Such distinction has been noted by various Islamic intellectuals such as Al-Shawkani, the famous Yemeni Muslim scholar[vi]; Abdul Mouti Bayoumi from Al-Azhar University and the Islamic Research Academy (currently known as the Academy for Islamic Jerusalem Studies); Nurcholish Madjid, a prominent Indonesian Muslim intellectual[vii]; Subhi Mahmassani, the Muslim scholar who authored the significant study on Islamic law ‘The Philosophy of Jurisprudence in Islam’[viii]; Hasan Al-Turabi, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood (also known as the Society of the Muslim Brothers) in Sudan[ix]; Rashid al-Ghannushi, a Tunisian Islamist[x]; and Tariq Ramadan, HH Sheikh Hamad Bin Khalifa Al Thani Professor of Contemporary Islamic Studies at Oxford University.
So, does this mean that Muslims can renounce their faith if they want to?
The Grand Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gomaa, who was Professor of Juristic Methodologies at Al-Azhar University, is reported to have said that Muslims can leave Islam to embrace other religion. “[T]hey can because the Quran says, ‘Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion,’ [Quran, 109:6], and, ‘Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve,’ [Quran, 18:29], and, ‘There is no compulsion in religion.’ [Quran, 2:256].”
Initially some Muslims have doubted the Grand Mufti’s statement. And this has led the Grand Mufti to issue a subsequent clarification: “I have always maintained the legitimacy of this freedom and I continue to do so. […] I discussed the fact that throughout history, the worldly punishment for apostasy in Islam has been applied only to those who, in addition to their apostasy, actively engaged in the subversion of society.”
This understanding coheres well with Sayyid Tantawi, the late Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Mosque and Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar University. He is known to attest that “a Muslim who renounced his faith or turned apostate should be left alone as long as he does not pose a threat or belittle Islam.”The other prominent Muslim scholar who took similar stand was Mahmud Shaltut, the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University from 1958 to 1963.[xi]
The Council on American-Islamic Relations’ public statement–drafted with the consultation of the Fiqh Council ofNorth America–states the same position: “Islam advocates both freedom of religion and freedom of conscience, a position supported by verses in the Quran [10.99, 18.29, 42.48, and 2.256]. […] Religious decisions should be matters of personal choice, not a cause for state intervention. Faith imposed by force is not true belief, but coercion. Islam has no need to compel belief in its divine truth. As the Quran states: ‘Truth stands out clear from error. Therefore, whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks.’ (2:256)”
Irfan Ahmad Khan, the President of the World Council of Muslims for Interfaith Relations, who served as Professor of Philosophy at Aligarh Muslim University, points out that it is self-contradictory to bar Muslims from leaving Islam. Here is a lengthy quote from him: “[T]here are people who stand for freedom to change one’s religion only when someone is entering into their own faith community. These people would not allow the members of their own faith community to convert to any other religion–even if they would do so out of their own free will. From the perspective of ‘freedom to change religion’, their policy involves a double standard. A self-contradictory principle is inherent in this policy […] It is a matter of principle that in choosing one’s religion, every individual should be free of all external pressures and temptations. In fact, it is due to this freedom that one is responsible for what one believes. […] Therefore, no one has any right to use pressure of any kind to make a person change or stop from changing his/her religion. An individual out of his/her own free will should himself or herself do entering into a religion or coming out of a religion.”
For similar reasons, Ibrahim B. Syed, the President of Islamic Research Foundation International, comments that, “[T]here is no bigger misconception–strengthened with misunderstanding of Islamic beliefs over the years–other than the belief that Islam doesn’t tolerate apostasy. […] The Qur’an is completely silent on any worldly punishment for apostasy and the sole Tradition that forms the basis of rulings is open to many interpretations.”
In his interview with the Prospect Magazine, Tariq Ramadan, Islamic professor from Oxford University, commented that, “Many around the Prophet changed religions. But he never did anything against them. There was an early Muslim, Ubaydallah ibn Jahsh, who went with the first emigrants from Mecca to Abyssinia. He converted to Christianity and stayed, but remained close to Muslims. He divorced his wife, but he was not killed. It is different for someone who becomes a Muslim during a war with the purpose of betraying Muslims. They are committing treason. This is why the context is so important because the Prophet never killed anyone because he changed religion. From the very beginning, Muslim scholars understood this. Islam does not prevent someone from changing religion because you feel that this is not right for you, or if you are not happy.”
The literature above are remarks made by some of the world’s top Islamic scholars. These are faithful Muslim intellectuals who affirm the truthfulness of the Qur’an and the Shahadah just like every other Muslims–they are not liberal scholars or secularists who have no commitment to the religion.
Of course, there are other Muslim scholars who disagree with those mentioned above. However, that is beside the point. The point is this: In view of these other voices that are no less Islamic, why do Malaysian Muslim politicians tell us only one perspective?
Do these politicians think that Malaysians, particularly local Muslims, are not intelligent enough to decide for themselves which perspective is correct?
Isn’t it more appropriate for every citizen, of every persuasion, to discern on religious matters for his or herself, as these are issues of utmost sensitivity and personal?
Politicians can certainly facilitate the process of discernment in this area. In fact, I would argue that they should. However, militantly enforcing their own preferred interpretation of Islam–to the extent of silencing other similarly valid interpretations–onto the people through threats of punishment is hardly facilitation. It is dictation.
Joshua Woo Sze Zeng is currently reading theology at Trinity Theological College, Singapore. He blogs at http://szezeng.blogspot.com and http://friendsinconversation.wordpress.com
[i] Abdullah Saeed and Hassan Saeed, Freedom of Religion, Apostasy and Islam (UK: Ashgate, 2004), p. 56. Emphasis added. See the discussion from page 59 to 66 on other implicated Hadith passages.
[ii] Ibid.
[iii] As quoted in Abdullah Saeed and Hassan Saeed, Freedom of Religion, Apostasy and Islam (UK: Ashgate, 2004), p. 81.
[iv] Shabbir Akhtar, Islam as Political Religion: The future of an imperial faith (USA: Routledge, 2011), p. 280, n. 5. See also Abdullah Saeed and Hassan Saeed, Freedom of Religion, Apostasy and Islam (UK: Ashgate, 2004), p. 96.
[v] Mohammad Hashim Kamali, Freedom of Expression in Islam (Malaysia: Berita Publishing Sdn Bhd, 1994), p. 93. Emphasis added.
[vi] Ibid, p.92.
[vii] Ibid.
[viii] Abdullah Saeed and Hassan Saeed, Freedom of Religion, Apostasy and Islam (UK: Ashgate, 2004), p. 95.
[ix] Ibid.
[x] Ibid, p.97-98.
[xi] Abdullah Saeed and Hassan Saeed, Freedom of Religion, Apostasy and Islam (UK: Ashgate, 2004), p. 95.
“Apostasy in the view of the Qur’an is a major sin even though Qur’anic verses do not impose a temporal punishment.”
Then why insist on “temporal” punishment? (sigh)
Best to stay out of it then and let god(s) take care of it!
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The Perkasa and other “rather extreme” Islamic groups make a lot of noise and get a disproportionate amount of air time compared to their actual support.
All their gatherings and protest have drawn only a handful of people. The “million” muslims gathering only manage less than 5000 of which 70% or more are children (percentage estimated from published photos)
I am not sure why they are given so much airtime… may have something to do with the BN govt “rattling sabres”.. vote us or else…
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I don’t think Malaysia is the only Islamic country which declares war on apostacy. Try to name one where someone would feel free to declare themselves a convert to Christianity. A few quotes from moderates doesn’t mean that Islam allows questioning of the Quran. Just ask Ayaan Hirshi Ali if you can get past her bodyguards.
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Those who said that riddah or apostacy is a punishment argues that treason or bughah is another category by itself that amounts to death. The debate is academic. Other concern that by large is the substace of syariah is the blessing part. Taking into consideration the background of what the muslim world is facing today the more urgent need is to educate muslims to hold fast to their believe, Islam cannot be seen punishing apostate in the midst of the muslims being weak themselves. Indeed I do submitt to freedom of faith so long as it does not surmount to hatred and challenging Islam.
Dr. Mujahid Yusof Rawa
MP of Malaysia.
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Most apostasy cases in Malaysia do not amount to challenging Islam. Just look at some of the cases; Hartina Kamaruddin, Lina Joy, M.Revathi and Soon Singh to name a few. However since the 1990s apostasy has become a favourite issue to attract gullible Muslim voters. And this has resulted in the current scenario. The truth is apostasy existed even during the times of the Malacca sultanate, as evident from the Baba and Chitty communities who are products of mixed marriages between Malays and the Chinese and Indians at that time. The politicizing of religion has left not only many apostates in miserable state due to inability to register marriages and births, but has also resulted in a generation of pseudo-Muslims, people who are officially Muslims yet profess other faiths. As for Sabah and Sarawak, refusal of the National Registration Dept (NRD) to allow Muslims to renounce Islam contravenes the Malaysia Agreement 1963. Yet not a single politician has raised this in parliament.
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Mujahid #4,
Love it when someone says “submit to freedom…but or as long as”
Reminds me of the joke..”You can choose any color you want, as long as it is black!”
Your Perkasa and Islam defender lads have been threatening to “kill” “maim” and other sorts of “uncivilised” actions against people of other believes. No one else has threatened muslims, especially in Malaysia. Please go read a book
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@ Neptunian #6
Dr. Mujahid Yusof Rawa is from the Islamic Party of Malaysia and in my understanding, is from the progressive school. Hence , should not be associated with PERKASA, UMNO or conservatives.
We should ask Dr. Mujahid to define what he means when he says: “… so long as it does not surmount to hatred and challenging Islam…”
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Malaysian muslim looovveeee to claim that they are more muslim than singapore, indonesian and even arab muslim. They think they know more about islam than other muslim in other country. While for the politicians, They loooovvveeee to use the religion as one of their agenda to gain more support from the malays. In the end, the apostates are being the victim in this situation.
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I believe that nothing undermines the faith of a believer more than hypocrite, who display their religion externally but their hearts are corrupted.
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Guess I owe Dr.Mujahid an apology.
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It all depend on what premise we are talking here. This is about apostasy and the issue at stake is whether Islam permits or not, and if it does, on what circumstances? if it doesn’t why? In relation with the issue is also other factors surrounding the apostacy cases as to give justice to the problem we are discussing. This is not about black or white, this is about faith which Islam holds so dear. Please do not simplify matters and please do not rest argument by putting Perkasa in this picture.
Yes, surmounts to treason and threat to Islam is the common ground that all scholars agree. To understand that, one has to understand the seriousness of Islam in defending its faith. The faith is so dear that one cannot simply renounce against it happily as it implies mockery to the faith. The law on apostacy is simply to protect the faith and to keep other system of Islam intact. If no serious law is regulated on apostacy the beauty of Islam will go to waste as it declares itself as religion for mankind.
The backrop of the Islamic history must also be present when we discuss the question of apostacy because the backdrop that we have today may be different. The basis of judgement is a variable factors in determining what is original judgement and the environment surrounding it.
Again do not simplify, we need to discuss it in an academic manner with an open mind.
Tq
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This article is a simplified version of a lengthier and more academic article published elsewhere. In that article, I’ve discussed the socio-political matrix from which Islam emerged and passed down in the way it did since the sixth century common era. I also touched briefly on the three juristic categories (hadd, qisas, or ta’zir) that approached apostasy differently, and the early Islamic schools of thought (Shafi’is, Zhahiris and Hanbalis).
For those interested to read it, here is the URL:
http://www.wrfnet.org/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=PUB.1.52&p_p_id=56_INSTANCE_6Gau&p_p_action=0&p_p_state=normal&p_p_col_id=column-3&p_p_col_pos=1&p_p_col_count=4&_56_INSTANCE_6Gau_groupId=1&_56_INSTANCE_6Gau_articleId=427&_56_INSTANCE_6Gau_version=1.0
Peace & Regards.
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Sorry, there is a typo in my previous comment. I mean “the seventh century common era.”
Peace & Regards.
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#11,
Agreed that this issue should be discussed academically.
I shall put it to you the “the beauty of Islam has already gone to waste” The waving of Krises, the threats to “anyone else” and the “forced practice” being demonstrated so clearly in Malaysia has demonised Islam in the eyes of most thinking people (brains afforded by Allah and should be used as such). Beauty should be demonstrated and revealed in its glorious truth. Beauty is not “declared” and then shoved down someone else’s throat. However the latter is more evident in “minority” and official” practice in Malaysia.
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Faith could only manifest itself and grow in an environment of love, compassion, charity, respect, kindness, justice and peace. On the other hand, faith will surely die under threatening conditions of hatred, intimidation, cruelty and violence. There is only one way to promote faith and that is through the soft approach, through the heart and never by force.
If apostates speak badly of the faith they are leaving, we must ask ourselves why. Are they been badly treated by the adherents? Are they been threatened with punishment, harm and even death? No apostate would insult the religion if they are allowed to leave in peace. If leaving the faith is considered as treason by itself and if leaving happily is considered as a mockery, what else could one say? You might as well admit that there is indeed compulsion.
If a faith is strong and confident enough of its own doctrine or teachings, no amount of insults, ridicle and mockery could be able to shake it. Think about it. If any adherent of any religion is worth his salt and is true to his faith, no amount of insults would make him retaliate in kind. Only men of little faith would act in a way unbefitting of his own faith.
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Dr.Mujahid
Mockery of Islam? People are just leaving Islam or criticising it. They may not consider Islam has beauty. If you are not open to robust debate about your religion, the injustices done in the name of Islam will continue. Answer your critics, don’t silence them.
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So the nuanced view of apostasy among scholars is a version of “don’t ask, don’t tell” (‘private apostasy’). So the individual is still subject to arbitrary external control of whom/what he can/cannot openly insult, hate, reject etc. And this is a desirable state of affairs?
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Dr. Mujahid #11,
I’m still not clear with your clarification on “..as long as it does not surmounts to treason and threat to Islam..”
Allow me to pose the question in a positive approach:
In your view, under what condition can a Muslim in Malaysia leave Islam?
I believe this a better way for me to understand your view.
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Joshua #13,
You note in your essay (link HERE) that ““it is not the business of the Christian to tell Muslims how they should hold their beliefs.”
However, the larger issue is whether the Malaysian Federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land.
And in situations when there are contradictions between the Fed. Const and Islamic laws in Malaysia, what do Malaysians do?
NOTE: Dr. Mujahid, I’m still waiting for your views on the conditions that Malaysian Muslims can leave Islam?
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Hi,
Sorry for the late reply. Our discussion evolves around what Islam says about apostacy. Therein lies the question of whether it amounts to death penalty or not. In whatever cases, condemnation to apostates in the hereafter is not disputable.
Then there is the aspect of preventive measures. A muslim should hold dear their faith and preserve the belief in any way they can. To do that all manupulating factors that could lead a muslim to leave the islamic faith must be attended to such as poverty and ignorance.
Other form of preventive measures is continous effort of promoting and propagating the islamic way of life in order for a muslim to live and appreciate the beauty of Islam that he or she would not leave the faith without any strong reasons.
Upon knowing apostacy is taking place the preventive measures consists of the cooling period to a given time for the would be apostate to repent. If or when the repentive period fail to convince the apostate then the issue of punishment of which we are debating now takes its course.
In my opininon the issue of punishment for apostacy is determined by the surrounding and periodical factors as been stipulated by the syariah itself. The provision of repentance period to my humble opinion must be indefinite to allow a healthy discourse and debate over the issue of faith not only to the apostate but also to the community on the whole.
#Greg Lopez, I cant really answer the issue of when a muslim can leave his or her faith without your goodself understand first what i have said in the preventive measures. Giving you the answer as to when a muslim can leave the faith in itself could be a misleading statement by me. But as far as theMalaysian Islamic Enactment is concern, apostacy is provided in the syariah criminal law. Negeri Sembilan has a more detailed manner of the procedural aspect on how someone can leave the faith.
We’ll discuss the legal aspect of it in future. I would like to know myself how does Christian provides their beleivers to stick to their faith.
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Hi Greg #19,
You are right that the issue is larger than interreligious subversion. If the issue concerns whether the Malaysian Fed. Const. is the supreme law of the land, then it is an issue concerning ‘power’: which group or individual should be given the power to enforce their preferred interpretation of the Const. in spite of the existent of other interpretations?
If that’s the case, then one may point to democratic processes to facilitate the delegation of such power. Yet, this merely bring upon another concern: should power be only in the hand of the majority, which eventually means the marginalization of the minority?
Then we realize that we are back to the first concern, how should power be facilitated vis-a-vis dissent?
These are questions that I’m not able to address.
Peace & Regards.
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Mujahid # 20
“I would like to know myself how does Christian provides their beleivers to stick to their faith.”
BY preaching to them the beauty of the faith and the rewards “in the hereafter” I guess
One thing is certain .. they do not punish or threaten to harm them in any way….. that mode of keeping the faithful went out in history, along with the crusades, inquisition and the like. That is so middle ages.
Sad to say, Islam is just going thru the “middle ages” of its development, so persuasion and teaching falls second to threats and punishments.
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[…] Joshua Woo Sze Zeng’s “Apostasy in Malaysia: The Hidden View,” has showcased the scholarship of some renowned Muslim scholars and leaders, their perspective […]
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I wonder the degree to which science teachers in Malaysia dare not teach their subject honestly. In countries where there is no risk of persecution due to godlessness statistics seem to show that an understanding of evolutionary biology and modern genetics tends to cause atheism. It isn’t total – there are a few who hold apparently contradictory views simultaneously – but not many.
It would seem that at the very least, acceptance of the evidence that man is an evolved animal would require a “non-standard” form of belief. What peril does this put an ordinary science teacher at should he or she chose to present the evidence for evolution as it is?
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Islam is a religion and to Muslims it’s a way of life. Its about having faith and living every seconds of your life in it. Islamic teachings stressed on a life after death – the Hereafter. To understand the concept of the hereafter is another issue. But, it correlates to most of the Islamic law and how you live your life in the world today. I believe it is simply not enough to discuss apostasy in an academic way without understanding the whole truth in Islam; the pillars of Islam; the concept of ‘ibadah’ and how all these finally relates to the Judgment Day. To discuss only specifically on apostasy is like a blind man holding an elephant’s tail and trying to describe how big the animal is. Thank you for those who tried to learn and understand on the apostasy issue; but clearly there is still a lot more to understand first in Islam rather than only looking at the end of it.
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Yang bernama Muhammad,
OK, so go on living like a Muslim then, no one is stopping you, but why poke your nose into someone else’s believe… whether that someone is Muslim or not.
Where does it say in the Koran that one Muslim can dictate to another how they should lead their live? Let Allah be the judge, if you so believe. Aren’t you usurping Allah’s authority when you dictate what Allah is suppose to say?!?
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I’m curious about the notion of apostasy discussed here and I wonder if anyone can answer these questions.
I was brought up as a Catholic Christian. After much consideration and thought about the doctrines of my church, over years and years and years, I found myself simply unable to believe in those doctrines. I did not declare this inability to believe for some years. I continued to go to church and take the sacraments but without any belief in them.
I wanted to believe. I just couldn’t.
Then I was an apostate but also a hypocrite.
Now I’m an apostate but no longer a hypocrite.
Which is better?
How can it benefit the world or a religion by a person who does not believe having to pretend to believe.
There is a statement from Proverbs or Psalms which I think both Christians, Muslims and Jews agree with: “The fool says in his heart there is no god”.
Ok, call me a fool – I can deal with that but don’t kill me or persecute me.
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Neptunian sir,
Thank you for your interest in the issue.
When you said -“Where does it say in the Koran that one Muslim can dictate to another how they should lead their live? Let Allah be the judge, if you so believe. ..”- Well Islam and the Holy Koran stipulated it as the concept of ‘da’wah’.
There are differences in opinions in the issue of apostasy even in most Sunni school of thought. Today as we speak, there are thousands of Muslims who living their lives not as a true Muslim anymore; they do not fast in Ramadhan, they take their ‘solat’ very lightly, but they still call themselves as a Muslim. In one of the Prophet (pbuh) hadith it was said that – ‘When the world becomes close to the end, the Muslims will be like bubbles at the sea, they are many but they burst easily.’ One part of the sharia law is the maslahah of the ummah. That is why Islam draws a line to what is punishable at the maximum. To carry a marijuana in 0.25gm is maybe just a 1 or 2 year prison sentence, but to carry 25kg, that is totally to the gallows.
One Islamic scholars may view that an apostate should be punishable for a death sentence, and one may view the other. Why? One may have a slightest disbelief, then the death penalty is not for him. There are many Muslims who might have lost faith in Islam, for several thousands reasons, and if they keep that for themselves, no one will knew. They dont get the punishment. But if you declare publicly that is another issue, Why? The jamaah will loosen. That is sort of degrading in another way, some might get insulted. We don’t see ourselves as -“usurping Allah’s authority when you dictate what Allah is suppose to say”, instead that is the concept of ‘amar maa’ruf and nahi munkar’. When counsel or da’wah will bring them back to the straight path.
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Dear Tom Hoy,
“I wanted to believe. I just couldn’t.
Then I was an apostate but also a hypocrite.
Now I’m an apostate but no longer a hypocrite.
Which is better?”
-If you ask me, between an apostate and a hypocrite,
I think a hypocrite is a little bit better. Why?
To belief, to have a faith is a journey. It’s not as simple as Google or completing a post doctoral thesis. It’s about involving thought and perception. Today you might find your neighbor next door is very irritating and rude; but it can turn out one day your perception or your views to him/her might be changed. You might feel your partner today is your true love forever, to share happiness and joy until ever after, but it can be the opposite after for whatever reason there is. So does your faith and beliefs. There are many couples who lost their trust and love towards their partner, but still keep the marriage afloat. They don’t file a divorce because for some reason it may affect others – children, parents etc. etc. They sleep in the same bed every other night hoping their spouse will change one day.
It does benefit the world or a religion by a person who does not believe having to pretend to believe- because your action might have impact on others when you don’t realize that.
It might be no god today but even a person living minutes of his/her life, dying in a hospital bed can change his beliefs, or when left deserted with no one to rescue.
So at least, when you’re hypocrite you still have a chance to turn back.
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Malays in Malaysia, are brought up from kindergarten age till Uni with Islam as a pillar of insruction. Religious classes from age of 4 or something. YET, statistics shows that… a)drug addicts, b) Mat Rempits.. c) rapes and molestation by relatives.. d) etc etc are largely pepetrated by Malays.
Please explain to me how all the religious instructions has help people to be better (as people)? OR , as you said, being a hypocrite is better, then, being a religious (moslem), pious rapist is better than being a compassionate Atheist who helps the needy?
I really doubt that Allah would share the same view as you…. maybe it is just me talking!
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Neptunian,
1) “Malays in Malaysia, are brought up from kindergarten age till Uni with Islam as a pillar of insruction. Religious classes from age of 4 or something. YET, statistics shows that… a)drug addicts, b) Mat Rempits.. c) rapes and molestation by relatives.. d) etc etc are largely pepetrated by Malays.” – It is simply because Malays are the majority in Malaysia. If in Thailand the Siamese would be championing all of the statistics as well. And on what base do you relate those offenders i.e- drug addicts, mat rempits, incest and etc. are the people who receives Islamic education from kindy to uni? It might be those people are school drop-out. So what statistics are you using here?
2) “Please explain to me how all the religious instructions has help people to be better (as people)? OR , as you said, being a hypocrite is better, then, being a religious (moslem), pious rapist is better than being a compassionate Atheist who helps the needy?” – If a person is a rapist, then how on earth can you call him pious anymore? Well maybe in Neptune or any other planet, but not from planet earth I reckon 🙂 . Plus, by wearing a white ‘kopiah’ or ‘songkok’, doesn’t make a person pious, its simply an act to get the sympathy from the judge, to show that he repented. Can you judge a piousness or religious from physical appearance? On what scale? Same goes with a priest who molested a boy or sexually abused him, it does not mean he is a pious priest. He might be just another man who has been lured by the devil.
That’s what I think. Allahu a’lam bissawab.
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@ Neptunian #30
Statistics/empiric should be used cautiously.
Causation and correlation are entirely different matters altogether.
Moreover, social phenomena are multifaceted with religion, culture, socio-economic status being one of the many explanatory variables.
However, at the same time, we should question if religion or culture is a force for good or bad.
In Catholicism, the debate on safe-sex on containing AIDS is a good example.
@ Namaku Muhammad
In you view, considering the issues raised (corruption, social issues, failure of the rule of law, etc) has Islam been a force for good or bad in Malaysia?
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Hai Greg,
I am not implying religious education makes one a criminal etc. All I am saying to Muhamad, is that religious education alone does not make one god, neither does being a Moslem.
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Mr Lopez,
Considering the issues raised (corruption, social issues, failure of the rule of law, etc) has Islam been a force for good or bad in Malaysia?
From my humble opinion, Malaysia as any other countries in the world is facing a sort of social dilemma. These issues of corruption, moral and ethics are always being referred as the negative impacts of developing countries. Religion was not a factor in other countries when a person commits a crime. When a 5 year old child was hit several times by vehicles passing by in a street in China, no one relates it towards religion. People are discussing the law that had loopholes that might hit back towards people who are helping the child, but don’t they have a religion? Don’t they have any beliefs? Why and how could they let the child lying around helplessly?
In England, when a 9 year old boy has become a father, or in another case of Baby P- who was ruthlessly bruised to death, people do not have any judgments or relates the act towards the perpetrator’s religion? But it is a totally different case if a case happen within a Muslim community. The reaction given and the attention are more focused on the religion itself rather than the act itself. At least that is what I feel and observed.
Can it be related with the 9/11 attacks? Yes and no. Yes in the sense that the media attention with the issues related in Islam is sensationalized and being looked in different way. As in Malaysia, any issues arise with Islam in its headline is being politicized from my point of view. Certain quarters in Malaysia especially are using Islam as their tools to gain support. Apostasy is one of the issue. That is why there are no official numbers given by the authorities. In other way around, to say no towards the issue is because Islam is considered as the fastest growing religion in the world. People becomes more interested to study Islam comparatively, not entirely because of the 9/11 itself.
I am not a genius in any field, nor a person who reads several books in a month, but sincerely I feel without Islam presence today in Malaysia and without the strict guidelines given, the Malays could be much, much, much worst.
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“without Islam and its strict guidelines, Malays would be much much worse”
Somehow I am incline to disagree. I grew up in the fifties and sixties in a “kampong” environment before all the girls were required (peer pressure, religious zealots etc) to wear the tudung (head covering) Islam was practised but not with jais etc peeping behind bushes waiting to pounce.
The Malays then placed more emphasis on “Adat” then Islamic practices. The children were well brought up. “samseng” behaviour was frowned upon and generally people get along very well. Differences were accepted not just tolerated… as Najib seems to think. One buys groceries from the “China Pek” shop and paid $1/- to pick fruits from the “Melayu” trees, with no racial overtones attached. Malay kids came to our house during “Chinese New Year” and ate without any qualms. (pork was kept away… obviously. Everyone knew to do that. No need for Jais Halal cert)
Somewhere along the way, some politicians and some Islamic zealots decide to usurp the role of “ADAT” and replaced it with “Islam” and things began to unravel. As things got worse, everything became “sensititive” and most required a strong response to “defend Malays and Islam!?
What gives? How can one say this is better?
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Hi Namaku Muhammad #25,
Thank you for sharing your comment here. Please bear with my response to what you have wrote.
You wrote,
“I believe it is simply not enough to discuss apostasy in an academic way without understanding the whole truth in Islam; the pillars of Islam; the concept of ‘ibadah’ and how all these finally relates to the Judgment Day. To discuss only specifically on apostasy is like a blind man holding an elephant’s tail and trying to describe how big the animal is.”
It seems to me that you are here assuming that the conclusion given by those faithful Muslims I have quoted in my article have no sufficient understanding of the whole truth in Islam, the pillars of Islam, and concept of ‘ibadah’, and how all these relate to the Judgment Day. If this is the case, then I think you may not have given these fellow Muslim brothers of yours the benefit of doubt. They are not, so to speak, any Muslims on the street, but faithful servants of Allah who spent their lifetime studying and teaching the way of Islam. To assume that their conclusion on apostasy is discussed (in your words) “in an academic way without understanding the whole truth in Islam, the pillars of Islam,” and etc is not only doubting their intellectual credibility but also denying their servanthood to Allah in this area which they are serving.
Perhaps, you could spare the benefit of doubt not only due to their intellectual credibility but also for their standing as faithful Muslims who no less submit to the same God and Prophets as you.
In your comment #28 & #29, I noticed that you were making a case that the reason why apostates should not declare their apostasy publicly in the present context in Malaysia (I assume you are referring to M’sian context since this article is about M’sian) is because such declaration would (in your words) “have impact on others”, loosen the community (Jamaah), and “some might get insulted”.
To address this case of yours, let me raise an illustration and then end with asking you a question.
Let’s say you live in a context where polytheism is the religion of the majority and serves as the official religion of the country. Most of the politicians and citizens of the context are polytheists. Much of the social structure is influenced by polytheism in one way or another. For that, there is a law that forbids polytheists from publicly declaring their apostasy from polytheism.
Now, let’s say you have converted to Islam, a monotheistic religion, within such context. And since the law of the land forbids apostasy from polytheism, you have no other choice but to be an apostate in silence. The only identification of your identity (i.e. your Identity Card) states that you are a polytheist. That means when you pass on, your body will be buried through a polytheistic ritual which invokes the names of various gods and supernatural beings to claim ownership of your life and spirit. Everyone you know will remember you as a polytheist who affirm polytheism all your life.
Being a good and faithful Muslim who worship and serve only one God, you are utterly dismayed by such arrangement. So you apply to officially change your religion from polytheism to Islamic monotheism. But you are being told that your application will not be entertained and processed because such public declaration would have impact on other polytheists that you are not aware of. Besides, such public declaration would loosen the polytheist community and insult other polytheists.
This is the end of my illustration.
Now here is a question that I would like to ask you: Do you think that the illustrated arrangement, that forbids you from being who you really are and how you want yourself to be identified and known, truthful and just to your Muslim identity, your Islamic belief, and your person as a whole?
If you think that such arrangement is truthful and just to you, your Islamic religion, and the Islamic way of life that you have chosen, then that means we differ over the characteristic of “truth” and “justice”.
If you think that such arrangement is not being true and just to you, your Islamic religion, and your Islamic way of life, then we agree on the characteristic of “truth” and “justice”.
Peace.
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Thank you Joshua,
When I said “I believe it is simply not enough to discuss apostasy in an academic way without understanding the whole truth in Islam; the pillars of Islam; the concept of ‘ibadah’ and how all these finally relates to the Judgment Day. To discuss only specifically on apostasy is like a blind man holding an elephant’s tail and trying to describe how big the animal is.” – is referring to the other responses and commentators of the articles; not in any way is referring to the individuals you quote in the article. The article that you wrote was academically justified with the citations and references given; more or less I am agreeable to your point that Muslim jurisprudence have different view if to talk on the apostasy issue.
There is no problem in differences of opinion within the Islamic scholars as long it is not about the ‘usul’ (the fundamental issue). What is punishable up to what extent is always debatable because there is always ‘maslahah’ (public interest) in it. The situation 100 years ago in ultimately not the same as today. Islam is progressive in nature and remain relevant even if the ozone layer is thinning.
Given your illustration and your question, again that is a different issue. As I still remember a case in Penang which took place somewhere in 2008, where a Chinese woman (Siti Fatimah Tan) who converted to Islam and married an Iranian guy who then after a couple of years left her. She file for a divorce which was granted and later after that files to renounce Islam. Her lawyer at that time was Ahmad Jailani Abdul Ghani and together they file the case in Sharia’ Court. After going through the case facts and hearing the woman reason for leaving Islam (she told that she no longer practice solat, she continues eating and drinking what is not permissible in Islam), and the Sharia Court Judge permits her application as she was no longer a Muslim.
As for Lina Joy case, she files her case in the High Court which told that they had no power in saying who is Islam or who is not.
Again, Islam is always truth and justice to the followers. If you or any other reader knows any person who no longer wanted to take Islam as his/her religion, go file a case with the Sharia Court. They already had a preceding case with Siti Fatimah Tan. No fuss, even her status in myKad was changed. Again.
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@ Namaku Muhammad #34
Thanks for your detailed views but I think you have wrongly assumed attack on Islam/Muslims.
You give the example of China and England of moral decay and note that no one blames the religion of these countries.
There is very good reason for this.
Neither in China nor England is any religion promoted as superior. Furthermore, in both these countries religion is not a key factor in deciding public policy. There is a clear separation of religion and state.
This is not the case in Malaysia where Islam is promoted as “the national religion” and influences public policy although Malaysia is a Constitutional democracy in the Westminster tradition.
Islam’s influence pervades all aspects of Malaysian life through the public sector, through state support for Islam and Malay culture. This is not the case in China or England.
And this is the context that I asked if Islam has been a force for good or bad in Malaysia.
More specific questions:
(1) Would Malaysia (and its Muslim citizens) be a better country simply by following the rule of law instead of relying on Islamic norms?
(2) Would Malaysia (and Muslim citizens) be better of if the best Malaysians were chosen to lead or employed in the GLCs, public sector, politics rather than only Muslims?
(3) Has Islam made Muslims in Malaysia weak?
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I’d suggest the state-sponsored narrative of Islam, which has strong emphasis on fiqh and religiousity, has led to the harsh and simplistic way many muslims in Malaysia think now.
A nostalgia for ‘adat’ I feel is misplaced, because Malay customs and traditions, give or take a few exceptions, are still widely practiced today. The Malays are still a very traditional society, even post-urbanisation.
Some writers have gone on to suggest that the speed at which the bulk of the new malay middle class gained their wealth (thanks to the NEP), has not allowed the time to learn the literacies of plural urban society. Id go on to say that this is a society with a clear living recollection of its simple rural past, that has to figure out how to live in a, pardon the cliche, a globalised present.
To paraphrase a line from Sidney Poitier’s character in Guess Whos Coming For Dinner, many malays still view themselves as poor, deprived kampong folk, despite what theyve achieved, but there are those who think themselves simply as a men capable to face challenges.
To lay the blame on islam for the malays’ present dysfunction would be a gross simplification of the complexities of both islamic thought and malay development
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Hi Namaku Muhammad #37,
Thank you for clarifying that your comment is on those who are not familiar with Islam yet want to talk about apostasy in Islam. This means that the argument in the article and its conclusion are valid.
On the illustration that I have given, although you are right to note the implicit reference to Lina Joy’s case, yet that is not the point of the illustration. Allow me to explain.
The point is to investigate the validity of your claim that a person cannot publicly declare (include changing of one’s religion on IC) his or her apostasy because such declaration would (in your words) “have impact on others”, loosen the community (Jamaah), and “some might get insulted”.
The illustration presupposes a tension between your cited reasons to prevent public declaration of one’s apostasy vis-a-vis Islam being truthful and just. That is to say if Islam is truthful and just to the individual apostate, then it should allow public declaration of apostasy despite the reasons you have given (have impact on others, loosen the Jamaah, and insult others). If this is true, then that means your reasons to forbid apostasy are not valid.
It seems that your suggestion in your last paragraph (“If you or any other reader knows any person who no longer wanted to take Islam as his/her religion, go file a case with the Sharia Court”) confirms that you yourself agree that individual apostate should be allowed to apostasies. That means you sided with the notion that Islam is truthful and just also to the apostates. If this is the case, then it casts questions on the validity of the reasons you have previously raised in comment #28 & #29. This means that your given reasons to forbid apostasy in your previous comments are very weak, if not invalid.
Peace.
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I understand that scholars of the religion want to debate the legality of apostasy according to Islam. I am no expert on the subject matter and do not offer an opinion. It is fairly obvious however that the learned experts here and elsewhere do see it as a debatable question.
It is a fact ( assuming the citations above are accurate ) that religious courts in Malaysia allow apostasy in some cases and in others they don’t, regardless of the individual’s wishes.
Do any of the experts here think apostasy is legal sometimes but not others? If so, how does a court go about deciding which cases are which?
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Dear Namaku Muhammad #37,
Your example of the blind men and the elephant is a good one but it should not be applied to such a basic issue as apostasy. It should be applied to religion. Our creator is omnipotent and we could never hope to envisage fully His greatness in the scheme of things. So, like the blind men, we could only touch the surface and like the blind men, all of us could be partially right. We should never condemn nor belittle the faith of others as long as they do not cause harm. I would accept someone who believes in a stone (or the spirit within) if it could inspire him to do good. The moment he uses it to hurt others, it becomes unacceptable.
On the issue of apostasy, we have to get the basics right. If you believe that everyone should be given the freedom of belief, then it has to apply both ways, in and out of any religion. You could not have it one way and not the other. All religions would surely prefer their adherents to stay. So, we have to find other ways to prevent believers from leaving while maintaining the basic right. We could persuade, we could appeal, we could even beg them to stay. But we should never threaten them with punishment and harm. The intimidation would only confirm that the religion is indeed not good for them and they would want out even more so.
And one swallow does not, a summer make. Not even the few cases of apostasy being allowed would indicate freedom to disbelief. If Lina Joy were to appeal to the Syaria courts, I am pretty sure she would be like Makcik Kamariah Ali, who has been in and out of the courts for the past umpteen years without being given the right to apostasize. She was also reportedly imprisoned for 20 months in 1992, presumably for apostasy. (Ref: http://legitexpect.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/kamariah-ali/ )
How and why, in heaven’s name, could a person be subjected to so much anguish, pain and suffering and yet not be given proper closure? I personally do not believe that Islam would allow it. And the ultimate irony is that, while the courts still consider her a Muslim, when she dies, she would most likely be buried somewhere other than a Muslim cemetry, like one of her Sky Kingdom members. How sad and how tragic.
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Hello everybody.
#35 – I don’t know which kampong you’re from, but the last time I check my kampung in Durian Tunggal Melaka, they do more or less living like your kampong in the fifties and sixties which you’re describing. In fact my in laws in Kampung Pasir Raja in Dungun Terengganu where the Malay community strictly adheres to Islamic teachings, was still having the same atmosphere as you described, except the chinese neighbours now are paying Rm10 to pick the fruits from the fruits orchards.
#38 – Very true indeed. Good point. I try to answer your question briefly as I can.
(1) Would Malaysia (and its Muslim citizens) be a better country simply by following the rule of law instead of relying on Islamic norms?
A: I don’t know. There are a lot countries that are following the rule of law, take the Phillipines for example. Are they any better than us?
(2) Would Malaysia (and Muslim citizens) be better of if the best Malaysians were chosen to lead or employed in the GLCs, public sector, politics rather than only Muslims?
A: Yes. I strongly believed that those positions should be given based on eligibility and not preferences, like when they give Malaysia Airlines (MAS) to Datuk Idris Jala once. (note: Idris Jala is a non-muslim).
(3) Has Islam made Muslims in Malaysia weak?
A: No. As a matter of fact, Islam made Muslims in Malaysia much stronger and navigates them to a better way. The progression can be reflected by looking into the financial world – Islamic banking. It began with the establishment of the first Islamic bank in 1983 and in the year that followed, the first Takaful operator. We have never looked back since then to evolve a comprehensive domestic Islamic financial system operating alongside the conventional financial system, comprising the Islamic banking institutions, the takaful industry, the Islamic money and capital markets. These respective components have been progressively liberalized over the years, allowing for more foreign presence in the market to become internationally more integrated. This has led to diversity in market players, and the increased competitive forces now provide the impetus for increased innovation in the market. The dynamism in the market has been supported by a robust regulatory and supervisory framework, reinforced by the legal and Shariah framework, the payment and settlement systems. The Shariah framework in particular is distinctively robust, through the consultative role of the Shariah Advisory Council of Bank Negara Malaysia and Securities Commission, complemented by the Shariah board of individual Islamic financial institutions.
#40 – My point was based on the originality and the discussed ‘hukum’ , not what is implemented. The words “have impact on others”, loosen the community (Jamaah), and “some might get insulted” is what the strict Islamic scholars dictates. It’s like the hudud law; stealing as per say. Not every person who steals will get their hands chopped off. It must be within certain strict requirements. And in the apostasy issue, from my opinion, just present the case to a Sharia Judge, and let him/her decides.
#42 – In 21st July 2005, Puan Kamariah Ali stated that she was no longer a Muslim by confessing in front of Justice Wan Abdul Malik Wan Sidek at 12.50 pm upon being interviewed in Mahkamah Rendah Syariah Besut. She wanted to rejects the acquisition face by her of preaching and heretic, so she applies to apostate. The case then goes to Mahkamah Tinggi Syariah Kuala Terengganu and in March 2008, she was given a 2 year sentence after the Justice Mohamad Abdullah found her guilty for apostasy. In reading his judgment, Justice Mohamad said that the reasons being given by the defendant was not concrete and there is confusions in her affidavit. She do believes in Allah and Muhammad but in addition she believes Ayah Pin is also a Messenger from Allah to brings all religion together. The case continues when they brought up the case to Civil High Court. Later the court rejected her case as reported in Malay Mail dated July 18th 2011 which reports :
“Justices Datuk Seri Abu Samah Nordin, Datuk Azhar Ma’ah and Datuk Clement Allan Skinner agreed with the decision of the then High Court judge Tan Sri Md Raus Shariff (now Federal Court judge) that the matter was within the sole domain of the Syariah Court by virtue of Article 121 (1A) of the Federal Constitution. Article 121 (1A) of the Constitution gives the exclusive jurisdiction to the Syariah Court to determine matters relating to Islam.”
In conclusion for all these, let’s stop all the blaming and hatred towards other religion. Islam can always co-exists with other religion and the non-Muslim should never fear of their rights in a Muslim world. Issues related to creed or religion like apostasy, are often being orchestrated by the politicians in the media for whatever reason that they might have. The issues are often sensationalized to cover up certain issues. What I really wanted to see is that more scholars and academicians in Southeast Asia focusing more on bringing a new knowledge to the world. To test if a theory really works and can be applied in the real world. Not dancing to a nasty-hidden-politician’s rhythm.
To understand Islam is to be Islam.
Peace, love and empathy.
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Hi Namaku Muhammad,
It is precisely in the case of apostasy that I have pointed out how such dictation by strict Islamic scholars is invalid. (Not about stealing or other case, but apostasy.)
So if this dictation is invalid, then the Sharia judge who presides over such apostasy cases should not even consider such invalid “hukum” dictation, whether it is implemented or not. Implementation does not mean valid.
I agree there should not be blaming and hatred towards religion. I hope none of the commenters here are like that. The blaming and hatred is towards invalid dictation that is untruthful and unjust, regardless whether it is a religion or not.
Peace.
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To Namaku Muhammad #43
Article 121 (1A) of the Federal Constitution is an amendment which is against the spirit of our original constitution and it shouldbe declared null and void as per Article 4. Our FC is supposed to be the supreme law of the land but this amendment has taken out it’s supremacy and is therefore invalid, whether passed by Parliament or not.
It is the same catch 22 situations Muslims find themselves in, in most areas. Kamariah wanted to apostatize but not allowed to and when she practised her belief, she was charged for deviant preaching and the like. Muslims have been preaching that their religion is most compassionate and peaceful but their actions do not portray those values when it matters most.
The controversial laws and amendments aside, do you personally think that the actions against Kamariah, Lina Joy, Revathi and other similar cases are justified and morally right? Your stance would indicate your humanity and how strong your faith is as well.
May good sense prevail.
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[…] article was first published at New Mandela on 10 November 2011. Photo courtesy of Ashgive.com Tags: Apostasy, PAS, […]
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[…] “Apostasy in Malaysia: The Hidden View”, de Joshua Woo Sze Zeng http://www.newmandala.org/2011/11/10/apostasy-in-malaysia-the-hidden-view/ […]
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The people quoted in this article have clearly never read the hadith:
“While the Koran merely describes the punishments that await the apostate in the next world (Koran 3:86-91), the hadith is emphatic about the justice that must be meted out in this one: ‘Whoever changes his religion, kill him.’ No metaphor hides this directive, and it would seem that no process of liberal hermeneutics can brush it aside. We might be tempted to accord great significance to the fact that the injunction does not appear in the Koran itself, but in practical terms the hadith literature seems to be every bit as constitutive of the Muslim worldview. Given the fact that the hadith is often used as the lens through which to interpret the Koran, many Muslim jurists consider it to be an even greater authority on the practice of Islam. It is true that some liberal jurist require that the apostate subsequently speak against Islam before sanctioning his murder, but the penalty itself is generally not considered ‘extreme.’ The justice of killing apostates is a matter of mainstream acceptance, if not practice.”
– Sam Harris, The End of Faith
But no, let’s keep pretending that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance that doesn’t condone killing apostates and non-believers.
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