Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss 
Over the past 24 hours the stand-off between government forces and the Red shirts camped out in central Bangkok has, once again, taken a violent turn. The shooting of outspoken Red shirt commander Seh Daeng (Major General Khattiya Sawasdipol) and the death of another Red protestor adds further fuel to what was already a volatile situation.
Like at other times of significant tension in Bangkok we prefer to allow New Mandala commentators to share their views, information and analysis as comments. For the moment there won’t be substantial commentary from the New Mandala team but we look forward to learning from all of you.
It occurs to us that one issue which is probably crucial to the immediate outcome of this dangerous new phase is the capacity and willingness of the Reds to reinforce their numbers at the main encampment or to spread protests to other strategic sites in Bangkok, or throughout the country. Of course, they may not get such a chance. Word coming from central Bangkok right now is that more shooting and explosions can be heard.
Reader comments on this or other matters are, as ever, very welcome here.
UPDATE (14 May 2010): If you’re wondering “Who shot Seh Daeng?” then this analysis offers some suggestions. It includes a thought-provoking fragment: “How many Thais could have confidently executed this task without hitting any of the surrounding journalists? Perhaps a few hundred.”
At around 2 p.m. local time, local TV reports the shooting occurs around Lumpini Park. One protester’s shot dead, a foreign journalist ‘s shot around hip, Matichon newspaper reporter also got shot.
There’s some report from protesters saying there’s a military group helping the Red Shirt in the park, fighting with the government army.
Gunfire, explosion heard.
0
0
Spring News reports the shot journalist is now dead, it’s from Reuters. At 3 p.m.
Rest in peace.
0
0
Guess it’s not from Reuters, but TV France. He’s dead in hospital. Spring News also reports the police at Lumpini police station shot fires to soldiers.
This to be confirmed. Apologize for quick minute-to-minute report as it might be not 100% correct.
0
0
Athita, the “military group” are Saedaeng’s rapidly trained and increasingly angry NPC defence force; up til now the army and state control weapons and arsenal, but this could turn round…
0
0
Photo and report (in Thai) from late last night crack down at Lumphini Park, contains extreme graphic at the end.
http://www.prachataiwebboard.com/webboard/id/44453
you may need Google translation to read it.
Thank you Jim,
As I watching Spring News, it shows some flowers offering to Sae Dang at hospital, the sign reads “with concerns, from Pre-Cadet 11”. Guess his friends, like Army Region 4th commander, etc,
I doubt it would lead to more major fight backs.
0
0
Update of Bangkok Dangerous map here: http://twurl.nl/xpuo6l
0
0
Hi, I haven’t found anything about the protests and/ or gov crackdown in Northern Provinces… Does someone know any website in english ? International news are focused on Bangkok, but there’s no information about the situation in Chiang Mai for example…
0
0
A foreigner who happened to see the sniper assassination of Seh Daeng has made the following statement:
==============================
“I was at Sala Deang area near the MRT station. A group of us reported about noise coming from the the Dusit hotel. What looked like a long stick extended from the roof top. Within minutes, the general (Seh Daeng) was speaking to his supporters, offering water to an elderly lady and giving her a hug. Moments later, a shot was heard from overhead. The object had been pulled back and a man with a black hood stood up and walked away. About 5 min. later. A man wearing the same outfit was escorted out of the hotel into a black police van. Quickly, it took off and proceeded to go up Rama 4 and turned left to go towards MBK.
Military officers where seen smiling and shaking each others hands from this killing of this man.
Our party was told by an army officer.
You have seen nothing, go back to your hotel at once or you will be arrested and deported.
He repeated again and again. You’ve seen nothing, nothing to see here. Go back to your hotels.”
0
0
Some video from the Nation
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/home/video/?id=115415&top=1§ion=1
and this woman tried to take the rifle from soldier
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/home/detail/politics/politics/20100514/115400/р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕Щр╕╕р╕бр╕вр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╣Бр╕вр╣Ир╕Зр╕Ыр╕╖р╕Щр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣И.html
Chiang Mai and other provinces are quiet, except at Ubonratchathani (north east), these provinces were announced by the CRES to be under the Emergency decree. Some red shirts are on the way to Bangkok
0
0
Sporadic gun shots heard over Suan Santipab (Peace Park) near Pratunam area. Anybody knows what’s happening?
This is crazy! Am I living in Bangkok or Kabul???
0
0
From homefront in Ubon Rachathani, 2 men came to Bangkok Bank at Kilo Soon branch by motobike and sprayed AK-47 bullets early this morning as caught by cc camera. At noon to-day members of the Red Shirts chapter from Warin Chamrap closed bridge over Moon River. There are other bridges one can used over the Moon River. It’s obvious to notice the presence of a rather sizable hardcore Red Shirts group. Btw, Warin Chamrap is the twin city of Ubon city. Ubon Ratchathani is very much a Democrat stronghold. In my village of 400 + households there are only 4 known Red Shirts. A village northwest from mine, there are more Red Shirts according to my observation during their last “mor rum”, a rustic folk concert for rocket- for-rain festival. Rockets, fired by the Red Shirts at the Rajprasong protest site, are likely hand-made by Isarn folks. These little rockets don’t come with an explosive impact like those used the Palestinians against the Israelis.
0
0
Peter, it might have been better if you had attributed the source of this story which was a blog on the New York Times website by some one posting under the name of El Shaheen http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/world/asia/14thai.html?sort=oldest&offset=4 .
It is almost certainly a hoax. It’s unlikely that a sniper rifle on the dark top of the building would have been so visible from the ground. It is also highly unlikely that the sniper would have made himself visible as he stood up behind the parapet after firing the shot or that he would have appeared downstairs wearing the same black gunman chic outfit or had a brief celebration with military officers in front of a gaggle of tourists. Finally the van would have had a hard job getting to MBK, if it turned left after proceeding up Rama 4. Even if it had turned right, how would El Shaheen have been able to see that with the Japanese bridge blocking his view?
0
0
Portman: Agree, that story didn’t really make sense.
But if I were that witness I wouldn’t want to say anything officially either until I was out of the country.
0
0
At 5:44 p.m. local time,
At Sala Daeng intersection, fighting, shooting still going on. Medics team helps injured protesters. It appears the protesters has taken control at Sala Daeng again.
See photo
http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P9251573/P9251573.html
0
0
Sathorn South road was blocked off all the way from Narathiwas to Rama IV around 2pm. All traffic was diverted down Narathiwas.
Don’t know if the block is still in effect but Sathorn is pretty empty for this time of the day.
0
0
At around 6:30 p.m., tear gas was thrown to the Redshirt stage while Jatuphon speaking. Situation cooled off now.
0
0
As the army is sealing the area around the protest sites with razor wires and small groups of soldiers across the streets, small but growing groups of motorcyclists are gathering around the army blocks. I drove around and saw similar situations in Rama IV road, Silom, and Sathorn. I stopped in Sathorn, at the entrance of Suan Phlu. The atmosphere is surreal. The normal traffic has transformed into an empty space filled with air of imminent violence, ready to crack open. The motorcyclists i talked to, most of them motortaxi drivers say that “the population is not accepting the actions of the army and government”. Rumors run into the crowd of people being killed and their body being hidden by the army. In front of the Australian Embassy, right in front of the U-turn military in full gear stand in the heat facing the small crowd of motorcycles, most of them motorcycle taxis wearing their vest, that is growing at the entrance of Suan Phlu, horning and shouting to the soldiers from afar. The military side is even more tense that the other one, prohibiting people from taking pictures and shooting videos. They move frantically and keep changing the position of the razor wire while the other soldiers hide, with their weapons pointed at whatever moves close to them. Behind them fighting are going on at the Rama IV intersection, the center of confrontation now, as noise of loud explosions come from the direction of Silom, grenade deflagrating and echoing in the empty streets. The side of the motorcycle grows moment after moment as the action of the military push more people into the streets. This is the perfect recipe for a really nasty ending. Everybody there stands on their motorcycle in the middle of the street watching carefully every movement of the soldiers, ready to react or just cover somewhere. Soi 1 of Sathorn is completely close to the traffic and one motortaxi says the army is shooting rubber bullets at motorcycles between Ngan-Dumplhi and Rama IV. An older motortaxi, sitting inside Suan Plu on his bike, half looking at the situation and half picking up clients who go in the direction of Narathiwat tells me tonight they are going to set on fire buildings all over the city. This is a nightmare for the army now surrounded by the this small but growing crowd of young man mostly that are forming all around this area and growing steadily. In the meanwhile news arrives that another groups of red shirts are gathering in Kloeng Thoei, ready to pull an attack to the army. The situation now looks like concentrical circles of alternating red shirts and army, decreasing in density as you go out, at least for now.
0
0
The shooting by at least one policeman from Lumphini Police Station, back at troops carrying out the crackdown has been confirmed by Reuters :
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE64D0BJ20100514
One has to go back a long way in Thai history to find something comparable.
In the mid-1950’s (date from memory) police and soldiers fought it out in central Bangkok.
During May’92 there was talk this might happen, but it did n’t.
I’m pretty certain also that it did not happen in ’73.
0
0
Re. Who Shot Seh Daeng ? postscript :
Other questions are :
1) Why was he shot in front of reporters ?
2) For maximum publicity / intimidation impact ?
0
0
chris beale #19
or dumb opportunity
0
0
Just speculation here, but my thoughts are that the current thai leadership is too hamstringed or incompetent to pull off what seems like an effcient assassination on SD. Me thinks that it must have been US involvement or Red Shooting Red.
0
0
It is time for people revolution. All citizens must stand up and use their hands and feet to defend their rights. It’s time for everyone to take the matter into their own hands and unite into one. Whoever treat their own citizens as enemy, that kind of people cannot rule. They must be kicked out or stay in jail. It’s time for a payback.
0
0
Who shot Sae-Dang?
well, to me, there are two possible groups:
1). Army Chief, and those Queen’s guards who lost life, injured on 10th April. They have motive to think that Sae-Dang was behind the attack. However, I don’t think these people would do much as Anupong doesn’t hate Sae-Dang that much.
2). Sae-Dang used to threaten Col. Sansern, the army spokeman and Sansearn used to say he also got power to fight back. Also, Col. Apirat, the commander of Inf. 11, who had word splash with Sae-Dang, some said today raid is his responsibility as some source said at around 4 p.m. today, he commanded the raid at Chaopraya Massage, nearby.
According to mil. expert, the weapon used to shoot Sae-Dang was a riffle (can’t remember the name) using .308 bullet, light version. There are two fragments inside Sae-Dang head (removed already), and one stuck on his life-vest.
He was being interviewed by IHT journalist and the light spot him making him visible.
0
0
The basic role of the Thai government and the armed forces, as in any country, is to maintain public order so everyone can work, travel and live in his own home in security. Whilst Thai democracy is far from perfect, the authorities must now execute a clear and decisive plan to fulfil that purpose. What Asian democracy is perfect? You tell me. Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, China? Don’t pull my leg. Thaksin is paying for this campaign of disorder and violence, no one else is. And he wants his martyrs. His goal is to be the first President of Thailand. Make no mistake of that. I would far rather live in a ‘managed democracy’ in Thailand than in a land of Thaksinistas. Have you forgotten what Thaksin did? 2,500 dead without trial in the drug wars. Sacking workers in his own TV channel and refusing to pay compensation. Extorting the issue of a NTC regulation increasing foreign ownership in telcos from 25% to 49% the business day before he sole the Shin Group to Temasek. Prevailing on the head of the Revenue Department to issue him with a declaration of no tax liability on the Shin share sale. Suing a NGO protestor for millions of Baht for criminal defamation (thank God the Thai courts shot that one down). Planning to use Thai public money to buy a UK football club. Procuring a Thai Exim Bank guarantee so that Myanmar could but Shincorp products. Procuring that his goodfornothing son’s company got the sole contract for all the advertising space at the Underground line stations. I could go on. Thaksin is no different from Mussolini, Hitler or Peron, a wicked, vicious, egotistic, unprincipled, immoral, powerhungry dictator who will not shirk from doing anything to achieve his ends. Thailand is well rid of him. And foreign governments who give him a passport should be denounced for the paid whores that they are. We will have our election in Thailand whether it is next year or this. And rather than the US Government talking to the Redshirts and telling the Thai government what to do, it would be preferable if they talked to the prostitute countries that issued a passport to Thaksin to revoke it, and not refund his “application fee”
0
0
Re: Portman and Who Shot Seh Daeng
You might be correct in your analysis that the “eyewitness account” is not accurate.
However I still think it was worth noting the account and whether or not it was authored by an actual “eyewitness” or not, the question of who shot Seh Daeng and why was he shot while standing two feet from a New York Times journalist interviewing him rather than in a less “public” media centric setting is a question that seems to me will never be answered definitively but a probable answer is that it was the work of a highly trained and skilled Thai Army sniper using first class sniper equipment.
0
0
http://twitter.com/TAN_Network: Sondhi Limthongkul steps down as New Politics Party leader, says party no longer need to rely on him.
0
0
Well, what a day reconnoitering the protest site. Early in the afternoon Ratchadamri, the main thoroughfare of the protest, was barren. I immediately thought that it was the end. I discovered later that most of the protesters were concentrated on Ratchadamri between Ratchaprasong and Silom. I did see several kids and many women. Some women were holding bamboo spears right next to the Red Guards at the barricades.
This afternoon I saw two barricades set up next to Pratunam on Ratchaprapop with red shirts pouring gasoline into containers for molotov cocktails. The military had established itself at Sri Ayyuttaya and Ratchaprapop. A grenade went off near the soldiers and then I decided to get away and check out the other side near Soi Rangnam/Ratchaprapop. Soldiers had control of this intersection and were firing at protesters further up Ratchaprapop near the Siam City Hotel. It was quite dangerous there for a while at Ratchaprapop/Din Daeng/Ratchwatii roads hearing bullets hit metal near me. I got out of there too as I watched the red shirts push an army vehicle that they had taken control of beating it for all to see. Later I returned to learn the soldiers had backed off to Sri Ayuddaya/Ratchaprapop.
I then went to check out the main protest site and what a surreal experience it was riding my bike down Phayatai and then Petchburi almost along in such eerie silence. As I approached the barricades at Pratunam and Ratachaprapop it was just silent and I saw no people. No soldiers. It was really weird. I learned that the red shirts had backed away into their encampment relinquishing their perimeters in the area. I walked into the main protest site fully expecting to be just a mere remnant of the dynamism I had seen there for almost two months. I was wrong. It was filled with people.
I then rode my bike down to Rama IV and again it was just eerie being on those roads that were so empty. I tried using my cell but the network was down. I saw, as I have for months, a scattering of soldiers, but that’s all. I got one block away from Saladaeng but sensed that it was just too dangerous listening to that deathly calm; I turned back home.
My sense is that there is not going to be any crackdown tonight because there are simply too many protesters at Ratchaprasong. If the military is going to starve these protesters they will have to shut down many streets for a long time causing horrific transportation issues. Again, who knows what’s going to happen?
The few conversations I had with these red shirts were different than the ones I have had with these protesters at this rally before. Today I actually got a sense that these last reds holding out were the stereotypical red shirts I’ve heard of before from pro government people: a bunch of illiterate people who don’t know what they are fighting for. This feeling was unsettling for me because I have been so supportive of their cause.
I now feel that the reds are leaderless and have ceded the initiative in addressing the much larger issue of what kind of constitutional democracy Thailand needs. This past week has been such a heartbreak for me. God I would have loved to have heard a Jefferson, or a Thomas Paine, or a Churchill on the stage two weeks ago. Instead it comes to this.
Does the army have the stomach to shoot 300 people to stop this rally?
0
0
@ Erewhon
Thanks for reciting the PAD’s version of “democracy” for us champ. Anyways, good that you mentioned the other Asian democracies. The ones that come to mind are Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore (since when were China and Vietnam democracies?). Can’t recall any of the governments in those countries needing the military and various sky deities to legitimize their right to govern. All of them were perfectly capable of winning free and fair elections.
Even in weaker democracies like Malaysia or Singapore, most of the monkey business of the ruling party is conducted within the legal sphere.
0
0
Erewhon #24
“The basic role of the Thai government and the armed forces, as in any country, is to maintain public order so everyone can work, travel and live in his own home in security. ”
sounds OK except that its not “armed forces”, its police forces
the term armed forces normally applies to the military and they, in any reasonable society are more or less strictly limited to action against external enemies not internel
its the police job to manage (not suppress) internal crime and crowd issues
also, normally military and police are not permitted to be involved in business and politics, for conflict of interest reasons and to preserve their status as servants of the public, without fear and favour
seems Thailand has been taken over by a military that, by using protection of the monarchy as cover, is completely out of anyones control. they are in control and treat everyone else as puppets and prai.
pity, the basic Thai people are beautiful
0
0
Andrew #25 – something very strange seems to be happening.
I’ve been trying for several hours to log on to The Nation –
every effort to no avail, no matter how long I wait.
Is anyone else having this difficulty ?
0
0
Sporadic clashes between motorcyclists and soldiers reported by sopranz #17 at sathorn/suan phlu also took place in nearby places such as Bonkai/Rama IV/Wireless Rd and were well reported by govt-controlled tv stations today.
North of Rajprasong, namely at Raj-prarob/Pratunam area, similar clashes were also reported by the govt tv stations. It is worth noting that the areas mentioned earlier are full of small soi where motorcycle taxis are abundant. They have showed acts of defiance by burning old tyres and throwing small molotov cocktail bombs. Besides, Pratunam is always known as a hotbed of red shirts as can be seen from the fact that local food/fruit vendors blaring red radio broadcasts all day.
0
0
I have been informed by a friend who is a resident of Ubon Ratchathani that a large number of red shirts gathered today in the streets of Ubon Ratchathani in reaction to the recent events in Bangkok. She supported what denyzofisarn said in his post that the Red Shirt supporters forced the closure of the bridge connecting Warin and Ubon Ratchathani.
They then went on to protest at the Ubon Ratchathani Town Hall in an attempt to pressure the Democrat Mayor, Chuan Sirinanphon. She reports that support for the red shirts in Ubon is high. Many locals waved and cheered to the protesters as they passed, and while she observed the group many people left their places of work to join the protest as they made their way to the Town Hall in the center of Ubon.
I have not been able to find any news articles in English about Red Shirt protests in the provinces, however, if they are protesting in Ubon I would not be surprised if there are protests elsewhere. If this is the case, and the situation keeps escalating in Bangkok civil war seems to becoming ever more likely.
0
0
Seems more likely that Sondhi no longer feels he needs to rely on electoral politics to force his fascist views on Thai society.
Coup in the offing?
0
0
update from Suan Phlu:
the situation got increasingly tense. The crowd of red shirts supporters in Soi Suan Phlu grew in size. About 50-60 bikes are parked around the corner of Suan Phlu and many other people gathered there, out of curiosity or support for the red cause. The public lights have been cut off from the whole of Sathorn until the Narathiwat intersection and the cars and bikes coming out of Suan Phlu are asked to put on the lights for their own security. The crowd is tense (i almost got into a fight for a picture i then deleted), some tires have been put in the middle of the street in front of the Shell petrol station (probably not the best place) and set on fire giving to the street a gloomy look and smell. The motortaxi drivers are now taking care of organizing the traffic out of Suan Phlu as a small crowd of farang living in the area walks around. The soldiers, still located in the proximity of the Australian Embassy is shooting at the protesters side once in a while but mostly pointing at the air. Every round of shoots is met with a loud noise by the cheering crowd. Down Suan Phlu the echoes of the shoot makes an uncommon background for the apparently normal daily life of the local dwellers eating at street vendors. At the front of Suan Phlu some younger protesters shout to the others to change their shirts and dress in black as a middle-aged man shoots fireworks at the army side. A young taxi drivers is listening with a small red transmitter to the hospital radio, feeding people informations about injured and on-going fightings. On the back sounds of rounds fill the air. Now the numbers in the crowd are quite stable and seems like everybody is waiting for something to happen. This is going to be a long night, even in a peripheral area of the confrontation.
0
0
Athita, the link you posted (http://www.prachataiwebboard.com/webboard/id/44453) now appears to be blocked. Translation:
“Access to this information. Suspended temporarily
By virtue.
Emergency Decree on Public Administration.
In emergency situations, BE 2548.
The command center of the emergency situation.”
Don’t suppose you, or anyone else, took a screen-shot of it?
0
0
Maybe it is not all going the governments way : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rGqZDvRa_U&feature=player_embedded
0
0
Ike #33:
Google translation of the censored prachathai page
0
0
@sopranz I lived on Suan Phlu for years and take motorcycle taxis all the time – I actually know the guys down there still, a lot of them are really nice and funny guys to talk with.
There are a large group of people sympathetic to the red shirts, but there are also a large group of anti-Thaksin motorcycle guys in that area. I’m not sure how the general populace breaks down, but I’m guessing it’s pretty split. There’s one old guy in particular down by soi 8 with a big fu manchu moustache who is quite a character and rides around handing out anti-Thaksin and anti-red shirt fliers to this day I think. He’ll talk your ear off all day about the corruption under Thaksin and hates the man with a passion.
It makes sense for the pro-red demographic to be out tonight as a response to the Army crackdown and surely there’s not a lot of love lost for either the Army or the police in Bangkok, but I don’t think it’s a one-sided story at all at least in that area when it comes to the populace.
0
0
From the Sydney Morning Herald:
0
0
We’ve just witnessed an unarmed civilian (red-shirt) killed outside our apartment. This is in at 18 Rajaprarop, in between Soi Rangnam and Rajavithi- just prior to the Din Daeng intersection. Live rounds are being used despite any government reports to the contrary.
We saw him and other red-shirts crouched by the entrance to our complex, a shot rang out and one of the red-shirts stood up and stumbled a few feet into our driveway entrance. He was quickly moved to the side and blood was everywhere. After about 30 minutes it became clear that he is dead, and it was confirmed by the security guards at our building when we went downstairs to see if anything was being done for him. They are telling us to stay inside. No ambulances can get down our street as it is blocked on either end – one end is a red barricade and the other a military barricade. Looking out on the street it is like a war-zone. Shooting and bombs are constant.
Repeat: when we witnessed the red-shirts in the complex’ driveway, they did not appear to have any weapons, when he was shot he did not drop any weapon of any kind…he was unarmed and looked to be a teenager.
*note, after 45 minutes an ambulance has arrived.The lights have been cut to the driveway so that we can no longer see what is happening.
0
0
More self defense from the King’s army: http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2010/05/14/rivers.thailand.mayhem.cnn.html
0
0
@ somchai
funny you talk about that guy, i have talked to him many many times, he does in fact have big issues with Thaksin but he speaks of the red shirts as fighting for a cause he supports but doesn’t agree completely with because they are too soft for his point of view. May he be one of the many examples of people who discern, or came to discern since you talked to him last, better than many highly educated observers the distinctions between the Thaksin’s views and actions and the red shirts’?
0
0
Is there any way to stop this government from taking the violent action against the protesters?? I was extremely disappointed by Abhisit’s ultimatum. He called it the national reconciliation plan and yet he allows no man to negotiate on the terms. To humiliate himself even more, he came out and said to the protesters that as you did not accept my good will then be prepared for the bullets and fires.
0
0
Video of a red shirt shot dead, (graphic advised)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCKfGBT_8ys
0
0
so where are all my academic Thai studies colleagues (both Thai and non-Thai) who defacto and openly supported the fascist regime over the past four+years and vilified me for my comments and were so keen to defend the status quo? is it not time to come out and denounce this criminal act by the illicitly emplaced Democrat Party-Amaat-Military Alliance and its anti-Thaksin propaganda machinery: the “party” has only just started, while Thaksin’s democratisation rights-based process that he put in place has opened doors that cannot be closed now
0
0
Update:
At 2:48 am local time,
– Earlier (midnight) At Din Daeng area, (near Century Hotel), protesters set fire along the road. Some smashed glass windows of Bangkok Bank. Police officers just watched. Scattering gunfire heard, huge explosion guess it’s M79 from unknown side. Local witness said 5 dead, all protesters. Only 3 were pulled out. The soldiers shot any body entering their area.
That, source said, because there are not so many soldiers there.
– At Rajprasong stage, situation is calm, Jutuphon, Nuttawut made some talk encouraging the protesters. All entrances are blocked. Many red shirts can’t reach the camp at Rajprasong, so they are roaming around the city with cautious (in small group). Message sent asking those outside to gather at Puea Thai Party building located on Rama IV to break in.
lke
You can try http://www.proxybrowsing.com, paste the link there.
0
0
Update:
Source said it’s quite clear about the shooter to Sae-Dang. The guy is the army Private. Source even mentioned the name. However, this needs double check. The shooter is now hiding at Army Communication Division, it sounds to me there would be some revenge.
– 10 people dead (one woman), and dozens injured for tonight (14 may) clashes. One dead is a medics from Wachira Hospital who tried to help injured protesters. He was shot by army and rescued by redshirt. See extreme picture here
http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P9253830/P9253830.html
0
0
Dailynews newspaper reports a ten years old boy got shot at his stomach, badly injured.
See picture
http://www.dailynews.co.th/newstartpage/index.cfm?page=content&categoryId=627&contentId=65910
0
0
[…] […]
0
0
Tim Johnston of the Financial Times made this conclusion about Friday’s violent incidents:
“Friday was not the most violent day of the nine-week protest — that was April 10, when 25 people, including 19 protesters, five soldiers and a cameraman, were killed — but it marked a troubling low point. At best, the violence showed that the protesters’ claims to be a peaceful movement were seriously flawed. At worst, it suggested that the movement has been hijacked by militants who believe that their road to victory lies through chaos.”
0
0
Ike stay indoors and keepya head down man! Australia won the cricket and i had a clean run back from the office bar to home, round rama 3. I’m sure the death count from the past 24 hours will be up there with 92. The fact that the aus embassy has been under seige is a result of a red offensive move. Has anybody seen reds down satorn this month?Having a servo next door is the no1 reason why they have been tryin to relocate since 2001.( The roof is flat for a reason too!) Peter no8 came out with the seh dang eyewitness report ,30 people say yeah! 17 mi di. Portman no 12 says this is crap 33 people say yeah, 2 say midi! how many people voted for both posts?? we will never know whats goin on but in the clear light of morn hopefully enough blood has been shed do finish it all! oct 73/76, may 92 sad but true but the head count counts.. Funny how Taksin is now talkin some weird sociopathitic form of, do everything i want and make peace! Love you Marajtp 26 for seeing through the fog!! Some westerners thought the khmer rouge were good until april 75 too..
0
0
Tim Johnston’s article is not fair to the protesters.
Of course,The Redshirts are not Khandhi’s way of peaceful, sit down and let officers take them down or even shoot them!. Most of them are unarmed and some of them want to protect their base using homemade weapons to stop the military, these weapons are practically nothing compare to MP5 M16 rifles machine gun that military fired into protester.
Why Abhisit want to fight these people which want him to just dissolve the parliament and let people decide again.
Or it’s just one time thing for him!!!
0
0
Meanwhile, Thailand wins a seat on the Human Rights Council
http://bangkokpost.com/news/local/37337/thailand-wins-human-rights-council-seat
0
0
Perhaps this is the dangerous new phase?
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs542.snc3/29720_117273181645638_100000888708683_95940_5585725_n.jpg
o_O Protestors stripping down is indeed a worrying prospect.
0
0
Remember red-shirt protesters shot during the Songkran demonstrations in April last year? Recall the expose later in the year when Abhisit was found to have ordered the killing of demonstrators in a secretly taped audiotape at the army barracks where he had been directing events in his bunker? Fiction many cried, even though it was clearly Abhisit’s voice. The biased Thai media killed that one quickly with counterclaims of it being a fake. Now perhaps folks will realize the element of truth behind this expose. The current action on the street and Abhisit’s orders through CRES and other pro-fascist (Thai falangist) interests are not ambiguous. Let’s hope all skeptics last few years will start to see the truth.
0
0
The army hasn’t even approached the red camp area let alone tried to breach the barricades.
Reds are not defending themselves, they are attacking the advancing army, well outside their own perimeter.
Dudes who trow molotov cocktails or fire home made rockets at the soldiers should expect being shot back.
Soldiers are allowed to use live ammo after they’ve tried rubber bullets and shot live rounds in the air. Of course they can cheat because no one can ever prove they didn’t but the attacking reds should be aware of that, too.
After April 10 the army also announced a new rule – no hand to hand combat, anyone approaching closer than 30m will be shot, following the same rubber-air-live sequence. They didn’t reiterate it in yesterday’s announcement but from all the reports it’s clear the army still follows it – they never came in close contact with reds anymore.
Despite emotional outrage here, the army appears to follow the approved rules of engagement. The government called them “international standard” and no one contested them so far.
Personally, I find it disgusting red shirts taunting, challenging and provoking the soldiers and then screaming their “knock out” punch – army shoots people! army shoots people!
Some motorcyclists deliberately drove close to the army line, one guy even took his pants off.
I wouldn’t blame some pissed off soldier if he decided to shoot him in the balls. The war is ugly, guys with guns are not always rational.
Those might have been isolated incidents and reds generally engage soldiers in straight shootouts without any extra taunting, but those are still SHOOTOUTS, even if their weapons are homemade.
0
0
The sticking point for the red shirt leaders with the government’s road map was on whether they would get bail once arrested. Some like Veera were not prepared to have lives lost on pure self-interest of the leaders and left the protest site. Now start adding up the deaths and damage done, all to keep less than couple of dozen men out of prison. Are they worth it? They certainly can’t be called very brave can they?
0
0
Shooting continues this morning on Rajaprarop between Rangnam and Ding Daeng intersection. At least two are dead across the street- blood trails can be seen from them. People who are trying to crawl over to help are being shot at.
0
0
The underwear protester:
http://www.daylife.com/photo/03uOehwdoPccG
Look at his face and his f-signs. What did he expect in return?
0
0
StanG – 55
Yes of cause the soldiers were not trying to breach the red’s defense, they simply firing their gun into the barricade.
0
0
16 dead , no soldiers among them .
Who is shooting who Stan G ?
You are a disgrace to the whole local farang community
0
0
Tarrin, soldiers ARE NOT firing in the barricades, you can’t even see the barricades from the sites of major battles – Wireless, Sathorn, Ding Daeng or Rangnam.
Over& Out, there have been multiple M79 explosions, at BTS station and Rajprarop, and some grenades fired at the army post, too.
I guess now the soldiers treat every potential attack group as carrying a grenade launcher, too.
0
0
From yesterday’s clashes, we can see a pattern here, namely whenever the military approaches any red defensive line, local youths and taxi motorcyclists rise up and resist (without being asked by red leaders at Rajprasong). This will be the permanent pattern because these guys do not like the military who invade their “territory”. These young guys are rather reckless (remember Songkran annual festival’s death toll where motorcyclists always top the list) n don’t care about dying. See Bkk Post’s version of death toll here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/177936/16-killed-157-injured-in-clashes
I think I can read the military’s mind here — so far they try to attack from the south/southeast (see clashes in Silom intersection, Wireless, Klongtoey, Satorn, Suanphlu, etc) and the north (clashes in Pratunam, Rajprarob, Soi Rangnam, Dindaeng intersection. Wonder why they have not tried to attack from the east (Ploenchit/Sukhumvit) or the west (MBK, Siam Paragon, etc). Is it because there are many commercial buildings or expat residence there ? But I can assure you that resistance will appear from local people in the area, especially youths.
StanG, # 55, you are right these youths throw molotov cocktails or fire homemade rockets at the advancing troops. You expect them to fly white flags and kowtow to the well-armed soldiers ? Last night, when I listened to Panitan, former Chula lecturer, now top CRES official, speaking in perfect English on tv, I thought it was you speaking.
0
0
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1273822369&grpid=&catid=02
Who try to kill Seh Daeng?
0
0
If you defend their right to fight the army, don’t cry about casualties.
0
0
@StanG
You obviously don’t comprehend what is going on here. The Red Guards are trying to prevent the army from locking the rally site down completely. They want to prevent the army from getting too close to the main rally site. Their tactics to use small mobile teams to attack the army from different sides with a hit and run approach is a good way to avoid even heavier casualties. The result is that there is quite some chaos among the soldiers and they always leave some small sois unprotected. The rules of engagement applied by the army are clearly criminal and show the utter disrespect for human life and human rights by the government. Shooting live ammunition into civilians without firearms approaching closer than 30 meters is absolutely never acceptable by any standards. It’s already illegal to use an army trained for war and to fight a foreign invading army against unarmed civil countrymen.
0
0
local youths and taxi motorcyclists rise up and resist (without being asked by red leaders at Rajprasong).
Hogan, it may be worth asking who controls the motorbike taxi stands. Do you know the answer because if not there are plenty here that could tell you.
0
0
Stan G ,
Your cheap rethoric cannot hide the fact that 16 civilians have been killed last night and zero soldiers.
From the pictures I saw , they were all head shots consistent with sniper fire ( like Saeh Daeng).
Who, except the Army, has the sniper rifles and qualified sharpshooters ?
I wonder what a guy like you has to win in the perpetuation of the Thai anachronsim ?
0
0
StanG I was on rama 4 yesterday, and soldiers definitely were attacking the red camp.
The 30m story is funny, but many people were shot from very far, some by snipers like seen on CNN footage. None I saw had firearm.
What about the 3 journalists injured ? I suppose they provoked the army ? The canadian was shot 2 more times while he was injured lying on the ground.
What about the medic who was shot dead while attending a wounded ? Disgusting taunting too ?
And what about the video showing soldiers shooting inside Lumpini ? They were not attacking ? Who provoked them ?
0
0
From Rajaprarop again – according to our security guard at least 5 are dead from the 8am outburst of gun-shots; one of whom we can see and apparently 4 are on the other side. There is no way to tell if these are red-shirts or simply residents seeing what was happening this morning. The person we can see looks like a woman, but it is too far to tell clearly. The military is positioned further down the street and appears to be shooting at anything or one that moves.
0
0
So says you.
It’s a wall of people with rocks and molotov cocktails and sharpened bamboo sticks that can easily pierce a body.
Who says the army must fight them only with batons and shields?
Try approaching any american army checkpoint that way, see what happens.
0
0
StanG, you made your point. We have both – who propose and oppose the crackdown. We understand where you come from. But frankly does this forum be consumed by these discussions? These were meant to be posted last week.
By the way Nation reports that Din Daeng expressway exit is blocked by red shirt taxis. Does it mean that clashes are also occuring outside the main area?
0
0
On his Twitter page Alastair Leithead (BBC BKK correspondent) asks –
“Saturday challenge. Can anyone, in one Tweet, explain who the red shirts are and what they want in a fair, balanced and accurate way? “.
Alastair, I don’t have a Twitter account. My reply is ” these are a big part of Thailand and they want RESPECT from the establishment”
0
0
As happened in 92 the motorbike boys will take casualties. Running on testosterone like young men everywhere they will take more chances than their older sponsors and leaders. The young conscripts will running on the same testosterone and getting more dangerous.
When it’s all over the blood will be on many hands and not just the government, the army, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders. It will also be on the academics, both local and expats, who gave the red shirt movement respectability it didn’t earn and tried to convince the world that this was a class struggle not the ambitions of the richest Thai man trying to buy a revolution.
So guys after this is all over, just sometimes look at your hands and see if you can see the blood. Unfortunately I suspect you will not see it and you will sleep well.
0
0
“When it’s all over the blood will be on many hands and not just the government, the army, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders. It will also be on the academics, both local and expats, who gave the red shirt movement respectability it didn’t earn and tried to convince the world that this was a class struggle not the ambitions of the richest Thai man trying to buy a revolution.”
No Sir! The cold red blood will be on the hands pulling the triggers, and the hands pulling the strings that control the hands on the triggers.
0
0
Tiptop: “And what about the video showing soldiers shooting inside Lumpini ? They were not attacking ? Who provoked them ?”
And the soldiers were shooting through the iron fence! It was hardly self-defense.
0
0
LesAbbey, is Thaksin REALLY the richest person in Thailand? Try googling a list of the 10 riches people in thailand.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/09/24/business/business_30112988.php
You must actually believe the establishment media of Thailand who writes as if Thaksin has “Spirit Money” that is unlimited (more than Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and the entire GDP of Thailand itself combined x 1,000,000,000) and can bribe anyone and everything (citizens, journalists, 1st world foreign governments) that doesn’t agree with the Thai right wing perspective.
0
0
Totally agree with ya LesAbbey! I nearly pissed myself whilst laughing when seeing one of the red leaders in a “Ghandi” t-shirt 2 days ago, I think his actually said “Khandi”! These guys have been chuckin bombs around for months, or is it years? Songkran/ASEAN! I also recall Taksin wearing a designer anarchy symbol shirt back in the day and wondering does he even know what that sign means, and what type of people are usually seen sporting such fashions? Seeing how at the time he was an ex copper, billionaire, PM. Normally not the type of person one suspects of being a fan of the Dead Kennedy’s, Misfits etc.. But then again he has had a few “Holidays in Cambodia” recently!555 Looking back now I really think he bought the anarchy shirt himself and didn’t just get his washing mixed up with Oaks.
0
0
Tiptop (68) “And what about the video showing soldiers shooting inside Lumpini ?” (I assume Tiptop means “into” Lumpini).
This one? BBC’s Alastair Leithead reports on a squad of Thai soldiers firing successive M16 rounds through the metal bars of a tall fence – at protesters “about half a mile away” across the park: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8682051.stm
Poorly-trained, edgy troops firing at what they perceive to be an approaching threat to them is one thing. A “stray” bullet hitting an already wounded Canadian journalist lying on the ground (as per the CNN video) – arguably that’s also attributable to wild firing….. an accident.
But sustained firing from behind a 4- metre fence – and the protesters are half a mile away? Self-defence? Panic? Taunting? Can’t wait to see the rationalisation for that scenario…..
0
0
“When it’s all over the blood will be on many hands and not just the government, the army, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders. It will also be on the academics, both local and expats, who gave the red shirt movement respectability it didn’t earn and tried to convince the world that this was a class struggle not the ambitions of the richest Thai man trying to buy a revolution.”
Don’t for a minute assume that people like myself who “support” the Reds, whatever that may mean, are not constantly reevaluating that support in the light of events. The more people die, the more I wonder if it isn’t better for the Reds to simply go home. And considering that no one, and I mean no one, is going to come out of this episode a “winner”, it becomes more and more difficult to abstractly define what purpose might be served by continuing the protest.
But when I talk to the few Reds I know, and hear the strength of their commitment to fighting on, I have to acknowledge that my moral quandary really has little to do with the “real” situation.
Those Reds are not being paid by anyone and neither are they passively accepting of all the rhetoric that pours forth from the stage at Rajprasong; they are angry that they have been disenfranchised, angry that they are characterised as stupid, brainwashed peasants who are willing to die for 500 Baht, and now they are angry that they are being killed by a government headed by a cowardly hypocrite who is hiding out in a barracks as he and his representatives claim to be “in control”.
I take that anger to be a healthy “political” emotion, and not some irrational expression of a failure of “jai yen”. And I respect that far more than I do my own ethical quibbling.
What is happening in Bangkok now is the clear result of one man’s refusal to surrender his illegitimate power in the face of a sustained protest that is evidence, if any more were needed, of his “government’s” illegitimacy.
The blood is on his hands and his hands alone, if that phrase is to have any real meaning. And when subsequent analysis begins to show that Abhisit was acting as a front for the cabal of usual suspects, there will be blood on more hands. And it won’t be on the hands of those who tried to help the world see that the Reds were more than just paid lackeys in the service of a billionaire.
0
0
[…] Mandala writes about the prospect of the Red Shirt protest It occurs to us that one issue which is probably crucial to the immediate […]
0
0
For the media report of all the casualties and injuries, note the lack of explanation on the causes. No news reports explain what are the causes of those injuries and death.
Guess the protesters just drop down and died en mass.
0
0
77barnsybkk ,
Interesting you mention the dead kennedys “holiday in cambodia. It is actually a picture from THAILND! The cover picture of the single is taken from the 6 October 1976 Massacre in Thailand, and depicts a member of the rightist crowd beating the corpse of a student protester with a metal chair.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_in_Cambodia
0
0
Steve I was thinking about this one: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2010/may/14/thai-troops-fire-on-redshirts
And on this one we can see the canadian journalist shot, and a red shirt shot probably by a sniper: http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2010/05/14/rivers.thailand.mayhem.cnn.html
I saw myself a sniper shooting from Dusit hotel yesterday.
And here the picture of the dead medic: http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P9253830/P9253830.html
0
0
Steve I am not sure the canadian shooting was an accident. He has been shot 3 times: leg, hand and abdomen. That’s 3 consecutive “accidents”.
0
0
Rama IV/ Soi Ngan Dumphli
In the morning Suan Phlu is restored to normalcy and the small crowd at the beginning of the soi is gone. Sathorn Soi 1 first remains closed around Lumpini Tower with about 20 soldiers resting in the shades cast by the walls around the building. Soi Ngan Dumphli, differently from Suan Phlu, is transformed by the on-going fights. The soi is relatively empty and the large majority of motor-taxis, normally sitting at every corner. seems to be gone, not clear where. As I get closer to the Rama IV intersection a small crowd of people, about 50, sits on their motorcycles and on the ground, in front of a burning plastic rubbish bin. Rama IV looks like a post-war zone. A garbage collection truck is smoking in the middle of the street in front of the side entrance to Suan Lum night bazar. Behind the truck the army has set a small protection wall with black sand bags. A tense silence fills the huge empty road covered in debris, burning tires, and broken glass from small hand-made Molotov and shatter phone boots. Sporadically a man walks out of the small crowd and shouts, amplified by an orange traffic cone,”buffalos” or “animals” to the army to which the soldiers reply with a short rounds of rubber bullets in the air. The silence is restored by the soft sounds of rubber bullets falling on the ground. On the other side of Rama IV, toward Klong Toei, four big truck tires are burning filling the air with thick black smoke. Inside Soi Ngan-Dumphli, back from the crowd a small group of motortaxi drivers drinks beers and show me the signs of bullets on the walls around the area. As I talk to them a younger man in black gear walks pass me carrying a small plastic bag filled with empty small red bull bottles. A hole has been carved on the top, from which small pieces of cloth come out. The guy sits on the sidewalk at the entrance of the soi and start filling the bottles with petrol.. The scene is grotesque. The Molotov keeps smashing on the ground with no effect as the crowd voices its disappointment and laugh. The guy keeps making them trying to find a working mixture. They seem all but highly trained paramilitary forces. In the middle of this an older Australian man walks slowly in the middle of Rama IV trying to take pictures with his small self phone. He walks toward me asking if I know how to do them and after I show him he walks back happily, ignoring my call to be careful, as some people hide behind the smashed phone boots throwing small stones at the police with slingshots.
0
0
Seems like some bad sh-t went down (and continues) nr. Rajprarob. There are Facebook images ( http://bit.ly/acAET9 ) from an apartment in the area of 4-5 people lying, shot on the sidewalk. And further reports ( http://twitter.com/neilbkk1) of the army preventing inured from leaving the area to hospital.
Either no control within the ranks or they have been instructed to shoot anyone THEY judge as “red.”
0
0
Very well spotted MichaelBKK, I only ever had it on tape not vinyl! The same pic has also been used by “Pink Man” as seen on this very site!
http://www.newmandala.org/2007/11/13/horror-in-pink/. Interesting to read the man in pinks feelings about the chef back when he was the gov. I’m sure he was shocked by the irony of the chef ending his days as PM serving in a party that is the political wing of the current “Red Shirts”. We all know Samak had such a soft spot for leftest demonstrators over the years! What were the words he used back in 76 to kill UNARMED students, “communist vietnamese dogs”? or some such. Amazing how marriages of conveniances can form and the most unlikely of bedmates can get together. I wish he was still alive acting as Taksin’s nominee and defending the reds right to protest555!! Keep up the good work Pink Man!
0
0
On the reference to a certain “cowardly hypocrite who is hiding out in a barracks,” see the following quote:
Saturday, April 24, 2010
Abhisit vs Abhisit
Prachatai has translated a Matichon Weekly article entitled “Abhisit vs. Abhisit”. Short excerpt:
On 31 August 2008, Abhisit spoke in Parliament to then Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej who was under attack by the yellow-shirt People’s Alliance for Democracy, asking him to dissolve the House.
‘For the people, just one person or a hundred thousand, to come out to make demands of the government is not against the principles of democracy, especially when there are suspicions that the administration of the country has violated the law and the rights of the people, or is corrupt. In developed countries, these issues do not need to be dealt with by the law, but by a political sense of responsibility.
‘In Korea, when [the government] recently came up with a free trade policy to import beef, hundreds of thousands of people rose up. The government resigned. It has to be admitted that the PAD protests result from frustration which the people have long been harbouring.
‘Even if [the government] deals with [the protesters] once and for all, it will never be able to destroy the concept of resistance.’
‘Today, I have to say what displeases the ears of members of my party and other MPs, who always dislike the idea of a House dissolution. But a House dissolution is part of the show of spirit. If the PM does not want to take responsibility alone, the whole Parliament will take the pain together’.
0
0
Tiptop – 83 & 84
Yes, same footage in that Guardian compilation (most media use “pooled” content) but the BBC version shows more and includes the reporter’s description for context as I quoted.
Neither am I sure about the Canadian reporter’s shooting(s) being accidental – there is always cause to consider whether such events are the result of wild/indiscriminate shooting or a deliberate policy to discourage independent media from seeing/reporting what someone doesn’t want them to see/report. And, without wanting get too “CSI” about it, the hand wound and one other could be from the same bullet. Still, whether it’s two or three hits, the CNN video shows that the final one struck someone who was already incapacitated and lying on the ground; if not a ricochet, that makes it at least the result of wild/indiscriminate shooting.
In passing, I’ll note that someone elsewhere has already queried Nelson Rand’s decision to wear black in those circumstances – even if just a black T-shirt and dark jeans. It’s also disturbing to read that some of the protesters involved in clashes are changing to dark/black clothes as night-time protection from snipers. Of course I see their logic, but I have an uneasy sense that we’re heading for something self-fulfilling if that continues….
0
0
Rajaprarop is again a battleground. Two barricades were set up by red shirts. Shortly thereafter shooting began, with some injuries. The military has just overtaken the first barricade. No doubt there will be more casualties when this is over. They have posted signs that this is a “life rounds” zone.
0
0
Can anyone shed light on the rationale for prevalent use of slingshots, bottle rockets, bamboo spears by the protesters? Given that rifles and hand guns are present in many households, are the crude arms being used as part of a political communications strategy? This mis-match in the weaponry between UDD and the army makes for powerful media imagery…but at what price?
0
0
How people die of stupidity:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1278378/Thai-protester-shot-head-taunting-armed-troops-laser-pointer.html
Some dude decided that pointing a laser at troops position was a fun thing to do. He obviously forgot that lasers were used to direct grenade fire on April 10, or he thought it was one big joke anyway. Or was he testing the army response and accuracy?
What is a better way to attract fire? Bring in a replica RPG launcher?
0
0
We are hearing a lot from a government spokesman and CRES. Where is the Prime Minister? When was the last time he made any public pronouncement or appearance? This may be normal for Thailand, but where I come from the nation’s leader would be expected to assume a prominent leadership role during times of national crisis. It’s been several days now since mayhem erupted in the capital. Come to think of it, we’re not hearing much from Suthep either.
No, I am not suggesting that they have been incapacitated, have fled the country or anything equally absurd, but it does seem odd.
0
0
So guys after this is all over, just sometimes look at your hands and see if you can see the blood. Unfortunately I suspect you will not see it and you will sleep well.
Obviously a comment not appreciated by the academic community as it’s just been voted off the page. Ah well if they don’t want to hear so be it. Just remind me though, how many expat university professors have been among the killed so far? OK any Thai professors? None, I wonder why that is? Aren’t they the ones that have been calling for this? A bunch of motorbike kids have just been given 6 month jail sentences. Not any university professors in that bunch either. Nothing like walking the walk is there?
0
0
LesAbbey #94 I don’t get it. You support the status quo. That is the people
who have given the ok to the military. Have you had a look at those head
shots. Have you seen the photos of the snipers. Hint, they are not red
shirts. Who is responsible for all this blood? This is your team. Thats right
you have allied yourself with these sociopaths. Though you are brave
enough to attack and smear academics. Now where have I seen these tactics
before?
0
0
Evidently trucks have been bringing in tyres all day long. Saw one nutter on thaipbs with 3 on fire in front of a shell servo. He also had a pile of about 30 next to him! Any interest in starting a book on when the first servo / mall / hotel goes up? I’m prepared to say before the sun comes up on mondi! What we saw in the south pacific over the past few years will pail in comparison compared to what the reds will do for their encore. I’m not talking Dili 99; year zero kind of thing, more like jakarta 98 x10 ! Girlfriend just told me Chavalit has skipped the country. I hope he was wearing his fresh new uniform! ps. Les like the ‘Notthenation’ Dr Weng glasses story, i suspect that the Dons would be concidered very suspect by the “Red Guards” and in need of re-education! Sorry i couldn’t resist the pun555
0
0
Les Abbey (94):
No, they aren’t. Can you cite anything that suggests they have? I do recall Ajarn Chai-anan promoting assassinations, but he is of course an ideologist for the PAD. Is that who you had in mind?
“..how many expat university professors have been among the killed so far? OK any Thai professors? None, I wonder why that is? Aren’t they the ones that have been calling for this?”
0
0
LesAbbey #94.
Clearly, I can only speak for myself, but I come regularly to NM because I am struggling to understand what’s happening in Thailand. I have lived here for only 18 months with the intention of remaining as long as possible, and I am doing what I did when I immigrated to New Zealand from the UK 37 years ago – finding out as much as I can about my new environment. Thailand’s political upheavals are obviously an important aspect of this. For me NM is a place where the contributors seem to be much better informed than on many other forums, the level of analysis is much less superficial and the debate is more rational and far less abusive.
I have felt sympathy for the red-shirt movement for what I perceive to be huge social and economic inequalities , basically between the people around Bangkok and those in the northern parts of the country. I do my homework and recognise all the time that I could be wrong in which case my opinions will change.
I have never been a ‘Thaksinist’ and, while I have been actively involved in various protest movements during my life, I have never supported or taken part in violent protest, although I have taken part in acts of civil disobedience and occasionally put myself at high risk of arrest. I am not a coward or a wimp, and I have no idea how I would react if I was ever called upon to defend my family or fight for my country. I just prefer the Gandhi way of satyagraha or forceful non-violence.
As the past two months of protest have progressed, I have watched the UDD make increasing use of violent language and become more involved in violent action. I can understand their gradual abandonment of peaceful protest, but I think it was badly mistaken. My support for the form of their protest has considerably dwindled, but I still strongly endorse what I currently believe are their reasons for wanting social change and for initially taking a non–violent action to achieve it.
However, who knows what I will think next week or next year – as the Buddhist dharma teaches, all things are impermanent.
0
0
Erawan Centre death toll: 24
0
0
[…] Mandala parla delle prospettive delle proteste delle Camicie Rosse: Riteniamo che quella che probabilmente è la chiave per […]
0
0
B Edward #92
Just curious, where are you from? I can assure you that not a single farmer, street hawker, factory worker, admin workers, drivers I know have rifles and hand guns in their house in Thailand (granted they are a miniscule proportion of the Thai population). None of my relatives have rifles in their house. One distant cousin who worked as a police has a handgun. Several friends in the military have access to rifles, but I am not sure if they were allowed to take those home.
They don’t have it, that’s why they are using slingshots
“Can anyone shed light on the rationale for prevalent use of slingshots, bottle rockets, bamboo spears by the protesters? Given that rifles and hand guns are present in many households , are the crude arms being used as part of a political communications strategy? “
0
0