I disagree with Thanes Wonyannawa’s statement “Truth does not belong to everybody, but it belongs to a certain social class.” It simply sounds like a statement from those who try hard to show his/her sympathy to those from the poor socio-economic background. Truth does exist in all fabrics of society but it’s the matter if you dare to bring truth on the discussing table.
Sorry to cast a cloud over the general congratulations. For me the the whole thing is a disaster.
It was convenient to be able to read the whole article and then all the comments on the same page. Now it’s a question of of clicking here and clicking there.
It’s a real turn-off.
Is that Red art you’re inviting a critique Tukkae? In my opinion . . that Red art sucks.
I think I mentioned this before in some NM thread somewhere. The Reds are very deficient in artistic expression. The Red art it seems is limited to hoisting Thaksin’s photo at nearly every (violent or non-violent) Red event.
The Reds have yet to artistically bare their ‘souls’ so to speak.
And maybe with more artistic expression, the Reds could discover the toxicity of their idolatry of Thaksin and their ideology of hatred (of ‘us’ against ‘them’.
Certainly, brief and one-time only because ultimately you are probably not in a position to make changes so there seems little point in discussing what changes I believe are necessary.
The moderation of New Mandala has, I believe, evidenced a considerable bias in favour of ‘club members’, which have led to differing standards of moderation. In essence, whether a post is accepted or rejected has from time to time depended not upon the content but upon who posted it. And yes, I have had several posts never see the light of day without explanation, even though they were as on-topic, polite and relevant as others in the thread. This is not a problem unique to me, there are numerous others who have experienced the same bias and either left or done what is required (which invariably means paying obeisance to existing members and especially the management) and become ‘members of the club’ in their turn. Its a very widespread internet forum and probably has a lot to do with the type of people forming the bulk of the posters. Pick your internet cliche.
Forums which have more than a single tier of contributors, where some are favoured more than others or where some receive more latitude than others are doomed and all go the same way. Maybe it’s just a misplaced sense of professionalism on my part, but in my view, forums are more useful where moderation has a light touch, where explanations are given for rejected posts, and where the forum managers try harder to avoid giving the impression they regard themselves as having impunity and disregard for the plebs who actually make it all work.
Jaundiced? I would argue not. Harsh? Maybe, but since the forum is already in decline (content quality and post numbers) and since the management have decided to try and perk it up a bit with a face-lift anyway, it seems an appropriate time to express an opinion. A focus on appearance rather than substance is a particular Thai personality problem so perhaps its only fitting.
I’m not really up for debate about it, these are my opinions, if you don’t happen to share them, its up to you, good luck – you say tomahto, I say tomayto. I’m not obliged to adopt someone else’s opinion any more than you are mine. Maybe this won’t even get posted, which would rather prove the pudding…
Like I said, brief, and one-time only. Take it or leave it – oh, and you weren’t bothering me at all, if its productive then it’s worth the candle.
A small practical problem seems to be that, sometimes, one posts a comment that will not be shown but remain as “awaiting moderation,” while subsequent comments in the same thread are posted and listed already.
Sabai, Sabai – have a look at the language of Burma’s various military regimes – something that is fast changing. Like the Khmer Rouge, the Tatmadaw and SPDC/SLORC et cetera promote ideas of superiority and solidarity with ‘the people’. For example, ‘The People’s Desire’ billboards:
“Crush all internal and external destructive elements as the common enemy.”
Let me get this straight. The Thai middle class – which however you want to define it comprises several million people – has somehow formed a consensus forecast about how political and/or palace power struggles are likely to unfold. They have decided to keep this forecast secret from everybody else (and presumably from foreigners in particular) and not even a hint of it has leaked out so far. Not a single member of the middle class has broken ranks to publicly reveal this mysterious prediction about Thailand’s future.
You, however, have somehow managed to penetrate the veil of secrecy surrounding the notoriously tight-lipped Thai middle class and have won the confidence of a “privileged source” who trusts you enough to reveal the secret wisdom to you. You have also managed to corroborate the source, whatever that means. So you now believe you are one of the few outsiders – perhaps even the only one – privy to “the interpretation by the Thai middle class of the future direction of their nation”.
Thais with whom you have discussed this secret middle class prophecy have given you a “look of astonishment”, stunned that “a farang would know such a private thing”. And in fact, such is the enormity of the bombshell with which you have been entrusted that you think you maybe even know “‘a bit too much” – presumably because, rather like the Mob, the Thai middle class may decide to drop you into the Chao Phraya wearing a pair of concrete boots to ensure that you can never spill their secrets.
Maybe even now, in a smoky backroom somewhere in a suburban mooban, middle class godfathers are holding an urgent conclave to decide how to respond. “The farang, Maratjp. He cannot be allowed to live. He knows too much.”
Understandably in the circumstances, you cannot reveal the full details of what you know to the ignorant masses here on New Mandala – the risks to you and your privileged source would be too great. But you have courageously decided to “speak like Deep Throat” and give us a few cryptic clues, despite the danger.
These hints are as follows: The prophecy foretells that something interesting will happen soon; it will be ironic; it concerns who will be supporting the lèse majesté law and who will be opposing it in the near future; two individuals in particular will be involved, plus the middle class and the ultra-royalists; it will be a witch’s brew and a feast for scholars.
And this, alas, is all you can reveal.
Please correct me if I misunderstood any of your revelations but I think that’s a pretty accurate summary. Many thanks for sharing – people will now be able to draw their own conclusions about your credibility and the value of your insights.
I’m not surprised that Thais with whom you discussed your secret wisdom gave you a look of astonishment. I have one on my face right now too. I’ve met plenty of people trying to peddle bogus insider intelligence that they pretend comes from within the palace, but this is the first time I have ever encountered somebody trying a similar stunt with an alleged secret prediction known only to the insular and mysterious cabal known as Thailand’s middle class.
I am not AW (and thus don’t know what’s on his mind), and I might be a bit dumb (and therefore not worthy of a response), but I still imagine myself as being able to grasp the meaning of a simple explanation. So, could you perhaps be kind enough and explain the above sentence in terms simple enough for me to digest?
“the future direction of their nation” >> Don’t you make things bigger than they really are? Surely, monarchy and succession are important issues. But what do they have to do with the “future direction” regarding a unit as huge as the “nation” (provided we will find a way of determining what this thing–the “nation”–actually is)?
“The looks I have received from the Thais who I have spoken with about this have just given me this look of astonishment wondering how a farang would know such a private thing.”
Oh please… a look of incredulity based on their wondering how a farang could know such things, would be hard to distinguish from a look of incredulity that reflects their believing the farang is raving mad.
“Never thought I’d get to a point where I felt I’m just knowing a bit too much. “
Don’t believe this either, most people who cast themselves in this role spend a lot of time admiring the extent of their own knowledge and perspicacity.
In my opinion, responding in the way you did to AMM’s comments was counter-productive for you. A foot-shot.
You have brought a real picture of the reality check but my one observation is that the fudal norms are not as equal to be generalized; they are specific.
The posting problem has been described by me, someone else and a colleague who gets it 100% of the time. A blank page with the notification ‘You are posting too quickly. Slow down’, followed by the disappearance of the comment down what is presumably a black hole or the ‘moderators oblivion’.
As to the management issues, you already know what they are – with respect, it’s not my job to explain it to you, you already exist within and apply those practices so you know perfectly well what they are for good or ill. If you really were always keen to find ways to improve, then you wouldn’t need me to tell you how. Personally, I don’t that smug asides solely for the consumption of others really do very much constructive but it’s up to you..
It’s a forlorn strategy to disspipate justified critique by interminably asking for clarifications and details. This strategy means that all the effort by well-meaning contributors goes into providing what you never really wanted in the first place, thereby avoiding further critique at the same time as avoiding the need to address the issues yourself. Sorry, I’m not playing, I was playing those self-same games when I was just out of uni myself, when I thought they were ever so clever.
My comments are merely observations, up to you whether or not you take them seriously, I have seen many blogs come and go and I understand the psychology of those who run them pretty well. One more demise won’t be more than a ripple on the water and the contributors will {be driven to} find alternative pastures to canter around in so it won’t matter to them. Or me, I’m just trying to help.
That would make Thai Deputy PM Chalerm Yubamrung a ‘big Nazi’ then because he pursues LM infractors with such zeal and purpose. And Chalerm’s bosses Yingluck and Thaksin would be what then . . . Nazi Supremos, right?
Thanks Simon. Can you, or someone else, describe the comment posting problem for me. I have tried to replicate it but cannot. And keen to get some detail on the management problems you are referring to. Always keen to find ways to improve.
Unusable. “You are posting too quickly’ every time, posts not appearing. Just about every time.
Unusable. hardly an improvement even before noting the obvious New Mandala management issues someone else rightly referred to.
Sorry to say that in my book, it’s a pretty major foot shot. NM has bigger problem than the colour of the masthead, it might have been better to address those first.
This article should be renamed as The curse of centralization. It will explain better the problem of many developing countries.
At least in a Feudal system, a local lord cannot use heavy handed approach without having pitchforks poking at his back. If he raised an army against the serfs, it is the serf, whom he will armed.
In centralized system, local elites such as bureaucrats do not need to fear the local because they owe their positions to power resides in the capital. Military that is needed to keep the local down do not come from the local but from distance provinces who have no direct relationship with the local.
Just as Europe had its problems with centralization such as under the Tudor after the Wars of the Roses, or under Louise XIV after he got all the feudal lords under his control and he advocated the divine right of kings, so as many other developing countries.
I think it’s fine, except for the toffee, which I’m sure youre addressing! I do miss the distinctive and colourful signature mastheads of the previous site; can we have them back? Back in the day you also used to highlight the odd quirky aspect of SE Asia – not necessarily political. These seemed to have dropped off in recent times; more’s the pity. Your passion for NM is as evident as ever. Great work, Nick and Andrew.
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Thai Studies in the Shadow of (Self) Censorship
I disagree with Thanes Wonyannawa’s statement “Truth does not belong to everybody, but it belongs to a certain social class.” It simply sounds like a statement from those who try hard to show his/her sympathy to those from the poor socio-economic background. Truth does exist in all fabrics of society but it’s the matter if you dare to bring truth on the discussing table.
New Mandala site upgrade
Chris, if you click on the article it appears, together with comments, all on the same page. Just like before!
New Mandala site upgrade
Sorry to cast a cloud over the general congratulations. For me the the whole thing is a disaster.
It was convenient to be able to read the whole article and then all the comments on the same page. Now it’s a question of of clicking here and clicking there.
It’s a real turn-off.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
Is that Red art you’re inviting a critique Tukkae? In my opinion . . that Red art sucks.
I think I mentioned this before in some NM thread somewhere. The Reds are very deficient in artistic expression. The Red art it seems is limited to hoisting Thaksin’s photo at nearly every (violent or non-violent) Red event.
The Reds have yet to artistically bare their ‘souls’ so to speak.
And maybe with more artistic expression, the Reds could discover the toxicity of their idolatry of Thaksin and their ideology of hatred (of ‘us’ against ‘them’.
New Mandala site upgrade
internet forum should have been internet problem.
New Mandala site upgrade
Certainly, brief and one-time only because ultimately you are probably not in a position to make changes so there seems little point in discussing what changes I believe are necessary.
The moderation of New Mandala has, I believe, evidenced a considerable bias in favour of ‘club members’, which have led to differing standards of moderation. In essence, whether a post is accepted or rejected has from time to time depended not upon the content but upon who posted it. And yes, I have had several posts never see the light of day without explanation, even though they were as on-topic, polite and relevant as others in the thread. This is not a problem unique to me, there are numerous others who have experienced the same bias and either left or done what is required (which invariably means paying obeisance to existing members and especially the management) and become ‘members of the club’ in their turn. Its a very widespread internet forum and probably has a lot to do with the type of people forming the bulk of the posters. Pick your internet cliche.
Forums which have more than a single tier of contributors, where some are favoured more than others or where some receive more latitude than others are doomed and all go the same way. Maybe it’s just a misplaced sense of professionalism on my part, but in my view, forums are more useful where moderation has a light touch, where explanations are given for rejected posts, and where the forum managers try harder to avoid giving the impression they regard themselves as having impunity and disregard for the plebs who actually make it all work.
Jaundiced? I would argue not. Harsh? Maybe, but since the forum is already in decline (content quality and post numbers) and since the management have decided to try and perk it up a bit with a face-lift anyway, it seems an appropriate time to express an opinion. A focus on appearance rather than substance is a particular Thai personality problem so perhaps its only fitting.
I’m not really up for debate about it, these are my opinions, if you don’t happen to share them, its up to you, good luck – you say tomahto, I say tomayto. I’m not obliged to adopt someone else’s opinion any more than you are mine. Maybe this won’t even get posted, which would rather prove the pudding…
Like I said, brief, and one-time only. Take it or leave it – oh, and you weren’t bothering me at all, if its productive then it’s worth the candle.
New Mandala site upgrade
A small practical problem seems to be that, sometimes, one posts a comment that will not be shown but remain as “awaiting moderation,” while subsequent comments in the same thread are posted and listed already.
How the Khmer Rouge dehumanised their “enemies”
Sabai, Sabai – have a look at the language of Burma’s various military regimes – something that is fast changing. Like the Khmer Rouge, the Tatmadaw and SPDC/SLORC et cetera promote ideas of superiority and solidarity with ‘the people’. For example, ‘The People’s Desire’ billboards:
“Crush all internal and external destructive elements as the common enemy.”
There are more.
Thaksin and the palace
Maratjp
Let me get this straight. The Thai middle class – which however you want to define it comprises several million people – has somehow formed a consensus forecast about how political and/or palace power struggles are likely to unfold. They have decided to keep this forecast secret from everybody else (and presumably from foreigners in particular) and not even a hint of it has leaked out so far. Not a single member of the middle class has broken ranks to publicly reveal this mysterious prediction about Thailand’s future.
You, however, have somehow managed to penetrate the veil of secrecy surrounding the notoriously tight-lipped Thai middle class and have won the confidence of a “privileged source” who trusts you enough to reveal the secret wisdom to you. You have also managed to corroborate the source, whatever that means. So you now believe you are one of the few outsiders – perhaps even the only one – privy to “the interpretation by the Thai middle class of the future direction of their nation”.
Thais with whom you have discussed this secret middle class prophecy have given you a “look of astonishment”, stunned that “a farang would know such a private thing”. And in fact, such is the enormity of the bombshell with which you have been entrusted that you think you maybe even know “‘a bit too much” – presumably because, rather like the Mob, the Thai middle class may decide to drop you into the Chao Phraya wearing a pair of concrete boots to ensure that you can never spill their secrets.
Maybe even now, in a smoky backroom somewhere in a suburban mooban, middle class godfathers are holding an urgent conclave to decide how to respond. “The farang, Maratjp. He cannot be allowed to live. He knows too much.”
Understandably in the circumstances, you cannot reveal the full details of what you know to the ignorant masses here on New Mandala – the risks to you and your privileged source would be too great. But you have courageously decided to “speak like Deep Throat” and give us a few cryptic clues, despite the danger.
These hints are as follows: The prophecy foretells that something interesting will happen soon; it will be ironic; it concerns who will be supporting the lèse majesté law and who will be opposing it in the near future; two individuals in particular will be involved, plus the middle class and the ultra-royalists; it will be a witch’s brew and a feast for scholars.
And this, alas, is all you can reveal.
Please correct me if I misunderstood any of your revelations but I think that’s a pretty accurate summary. Many thanks for sharing – people will now be able to draw their own conclusions about your credibility and the value of your insights.
I’m not surprised that Thais with whom you discussed your secret wisdom gave you a look of astonishment. I have one on my face right now too. I’ve met plenty of people trying to peddle bogus insider intelligence that they pretend comes from within the palace, but this is the first time I have ever encountered somebody trying a similar stunt with an alleged secret prediction known only to the insular and mysterious cabal known as Thailand’s middle class.
Thanks for making my day.
Human rights and lese majeste
As a German, I would appreciate if you left the “Nazis” out of your comments. This usage is very offensive indeed.
New Mandala site upgrade
Simon:
“what you never really wanted in the first place”
I am not AW (and thus don’t know what’s on his mind), and I might be a bit dumb (and therefore not worthy of a response), but I still imagine myself as being able to grasp the meaning of a simple explanation. So, could you perhaps be kind enough and explain the above sentence in terms simple enough for me to digest?
Sorry to bother you on a Sunday.
Thaksin and the palace
“the future direction of their nation” >> Don’t you make things bigger than they really are? Surely, monarchy and succession are important issues. But what do they have to do with the “future direction” regarding a unit as huge as the “nation” (provided we will find a way of determining what this thing–the “nation”–actually is)?
Thaksin and the palace
“The looks I have received from the Thais who I have spoken with about this have just given me this look of astonishment wondering how a farang would know such a private thing.”
Oh please… a look of incredulity based on their wondering how a farang could know such things, would be hard to distinguish from a look of incredulity that reflects their believing the farang is raving mad.
“Never thought I’d get to a point where I felt I’m just knowing a bit too much. “
Don’t believe this either, most people who cast themselves in this role spend a lot of time admiring the extent of their own knowledge and perspicacity.
In my opinion, responding in the way you did to AMM’s comments was counter-productive for you. A foot-shot.
The curse of feudalism
You have brought a real picture of the reality check but my one observation is that the fudal norms are not as equal to be generalized; they are specific.
New Mandala site upgrade
hi Andrew.
The posting problem has been described by me, someone else and a colleague who gets it 100% of the time. A blank page with the notification ‘You are posting too quickly. Slow down’, followed by the disappearance of the comment down what is presumably a black hole or the ‘moderators oblivion’.
As to the management issues, you already know what they are – with respect, it’s not my job to explain it to you, you already exist within and apply those practices so you know perfectly well what they are for good or ill. If you really were always keen to find ways to improve, then you wouldn’t need me to tell you how. Personally, I don’t that smug asides solely for the consumption of others really do very much constructive but it’s up to you..
It’s a forlorn strategy to disspipate justified critique by interminably asking for clarifications and details. This strategy means that all the effort by well-meaning contributors goes into providing what you never really wanted in the first place, thereby avoiding further critique at the same time as avoiding the need to address the issues yourself. Sorry, I’m not playing, I was playing those self-same games when I was just out of uni myself, when I thought they were ever so clever.
My comments are merely observations, up to you whether or not you take them seriously, I have seen many blogs come and go and I understand the psychology of those who run them pretty well. One more demise won’t be more than a ripple on the water and the contributors will {be driven to} find alternative pastures to canter around in so it won’t matter to them. Or me, I’m just trying to help.
Have a nice day.
Human rights and lese majeste
‘Little Nazis’ indeed!
That would make Thai Deputy PM Chalerm Yubamrung a ‘big Nazi’ then because he pursues LM infractors with such zeal and purpose. And Chalerm’s bosses Yingluck and Thaksin would be what then . . . Nazi Supremos, right?
New Mandala site upgrade
Thanks Simon. Can you, or someone else, describe the comment posting problem for me. I have tried to replicate it but cannot. And keen to get some detail on the management problems you are referring to. Always keen to find ways to improve.
New Mandala site upgrade
Unusable. “You are posting too quickly’ every time, posts not appearing. Just about every time.
Unusable. hardly an improvement even before noting the obvious New Mandala management issues someone else rightly referred to.
Sorry to say that in my book, it’s a pretty major foot shot. NM has bigger problem than the colour of the masthead, it might have been better to address those first.
The curse of feudalism
This article should be renamed as The curse of centralization. It will explain better the problem of many developing countries.
At least in a Feudal system, a local lord cannot use heavy handed approach without having pitchforks poking at his back. If he raised an army against the serfs, it is the serf, whom he will armed.
In centralized system, local elites such as bureaucrats do not need to fear the local because they owe their positions to power resides in the capital. Military that is needed to keep the local down do not come from the local but from distance provinces who have no direct relationship with the local.
Just as Europe had its problems with centralization such as under the Tudor after the Wars of the Roses, or under Louise XIV after he got all the feudal lords under his control and he advocated the divine right of kings, so as many other developing countries.
New Mandala site upgrade
I think it’s fine, except for the toffee, which I’m sure youre addressing! I do miss the distinctive and colourful signature mastheads of the previous site; can we have them back? Back in the day you also used to highlight the odd quirky aspect of SE Asia – not necessarily political. These seemed to have dropped off in recent times; more’s the pity. Your passion for NM is as evident as ever. Great work, Nick and Andrew.