Comments

  1. Moe Aung says:

    As I was saying when rudely rebuffed by “You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.”

    Sorry, Andrew. Missing the distinctive old look. What’s with the colour, or rather the lack of it? And pictures? Call me a child, though I’m just another old fogey who doesn’t incidentally wear Hush Puppies, I liked them in the masthead and the rest.

    No preview either? Very helpful that was too, getting a chance to edit typos, html links etc. unless I am posting them in too much of a hurry.

  2. Moe Aung says:

    And Muslims appear to believe that non-believers must be either converted or culled.

    The mullahs/imams have no opinion on other religions? What has the Qur’an to say? Any intention of Muslims living in peace and harmony like good citizens in a multicultural society?

    Yangon and Mandalay are full of mosques, some of those in Mandalay nearly as old as the city itself.

    Worth looking at Rick Heizman’s “History,Issues and Truth in Arakan/Rakhine State, Western Burma”.

  3. Moe Aung says:

    “You are commenting too quickly. Slow down”.

    I’ll be damned if I understand what that means.
    Don’t jab the Post Comment? Here we go.

  4. Robert Smith says:

    For all the little Nazis on the Thai Visa website, who say that the lese majeste law in Thailand is exactly the same as in all other monarchies, just watch the video link below ( starting at 06.01) of Robert Smith, leader of The Cure, saying just a few days ago on TV , that the British royals are just a bunch of fucking idiots who have never done anything in their life, and that he hates royalties.
    He is fine, no one is ever going to file charges against him and he will never spend 15 years in jail after a closed door trial , in which the defendant is guilty without without ever having to prove the offense.
    How’s that for a difference ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAObCHEjZrs

  5. Mr Damage says:

    Very interesting article, I believe all societies are feudal in nature as it is the nature of the species, some in an obvious way like those cited and those that are more devious. By the less obvious I refer to the western economies where feudalism reigns, Australia under Labor has union oligarchs, under the coalition company oligarchs. Take the US, regardless of who is in government the bankers are the oligarchs. Oligarchs have the government move the goalposts for them and achieve excessive wealth, they are immune under the law, they are a class to themselves. Everyone of them are parasites that suck the life from the economy and achieve success through connections, not brilliance or hard work. Progressives and Conservatives are both leeches.

    Avid politicos, choose your poison, but please don’t insult our intelligence by claiming yours is a purer system that actually benefits society, only stakeholders benefit.

  6. Srithanonchai says:

    Would join for sure if the venue was nearer to Laos/Thailand…

  7. Thanks Ane. Can you give us some examples that illustrate your concerns? AW

  8. Ane Thropic says:

    Can’t say I think appearance in a blog is a big thing anyway – maybe 10%. It seems to me that the content and moderation practices are much more important because New Mandala has already gone the way of poorly managed forums everywhere, it became ‘clubby’ some time ago, which is usually a sign of the onset of decline which managers will attempt to reverse by – say – revamping the appearance..

    The management ought to pay at least as much attention to content and moderation practices as they did to trivial layout issues because both are in need of professional attention, and this is not trivial. In my opinion.

  9. U Zaw Win says:

    “The international media have wrongly identified it as a religious clash between Muslims and Buddhists in Myanmar.” Wrongly? The Sangha has an opinion on feeding Muslims:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/krystina-friedlander/buddhists-monks-against-humanitarian-aid_b_1711737.html

  10. Maratjp says:

    Andrew MM,

    Interacting with you is always a treat. Your comments here are entertaining. I laughed several times.

    I have to speak like Deep Throat because I simply cannot betray my source, and yes, I would consider it a privileged source. And also a source that has been corroborated. The looks I have received from the Thais who I have spoken with about this have just given me this look of astonishment wondering how a farang would know such a private thing.
    (No, I’m not drawing conclusions about Thailand based on a few conversations. Just a bit of insight.)

    Never thought I’d get to a point where I felt I’m just knowing a bit too much.

    And please don’t make these comments out to be bigger than they are. I’m not talking about some single event. I’m merely talking about what I now believe is the interpretation by the Thai middle class, of the future direction of their nation.

    Two individuals, lese majeste, the middle class, and the ultra royalists. What a witch’s brew.

    What a time in history for Thailand. What a feast for Thai scholars…

  11. Ian Baird says:

    Please consider joining us!

  12. Srithanonchai says:

    Can’t say that I like color and font (although I am an elderly academic with hush puppies on his feet when outside). especially the brown hurts my eyes…

  13. Nothing wrong with Hush Puppies Kean. Nevertheless, will be experimenting with the header!

  14. Kaen Phet says:

    A brown homepage? On the aesthetic level at least, this aspect of the ‘upgrade’ has about as much style and panache as a middle-aged public servants’ Hush Puppies. The old site by contrast was very distinctive, though perhaps a little unwieldy. I fully understand your wish to improve on the original and present users with many more readily accessible choices on a single page. Still something has been lost in the transition. Superficially, it looks like just another run-of-the mill cluttered website. Having said that keep up the great work and good luck.

  15. Srithanonchai says:

    Doug:

    Your most recent comment goes well beyond the question of whether the peasantry’s political role has changed. So, I cannot easily respond on this in the present thread. Only briefly:

    I use the concept of “public sphere” in a non-normative way. Simply speaking, all communications that observe issues relating to collectively binding decisions, and that neither happen in the state nor in political parties (they constitute the other two sub-systems of politics and, in turn, observe the public sphere) comprise the public sphere. Thus, neither Habermas nor Cohen and Arato are involved here. In fact, I would prefer Luhmann’s earlier label of “audience,” but then people would complain that it sounded too passive. Besides, it does not take into account his later book on the political system of society (see the following paragraph). Moreover, as Luhmann tells us, we would need a concept of “public” that is sufficiently different from “mass media,” and “public opinion.”

    One might then look into how this public sphere (meaning something like general accessibility) is internally structured (although it is a single public sphere, this does not mean that it is in any way unified), and what factors impact on its shape and content. Then, again, this might rather refer to “public opinion,” that is, with Luhmann, the publicly accessible, stated opinion, the resonance of which with innumerable individuals and social systems is unpredictable. As he notes, public opinion rouses and guides attention, but it does not control how the audience uses what it hears or reads. In this sense, Luhmann continuous, a divided public opinion is still public opinion, with the special characteristic that the differences in opinion and the corresponding need of attribution play a role in subsequent communication. This certainly reminds us of the current situation in Thailand, but it also leads us away from the original issues.

    Alternatively, one might adopt (as you seem to do) a normative view asking whether the Thai public sphere is “modern” (this seems to require a concept of modernity, and thus a theory of society), “inclusive,” or “rational” (this is a difficult concept, partly leading back to Habermas’ domination-free discourse), and what could be done to improve it. Maybe, this connects to the literature on deliberative democracy (which is largely an insubstantial normative discourse). Before one sets the standards too high for the political performance of ordinary citizens in Thailand (and other countries in Southeast Asia), some sobering lessons can be learned from research on public opinion formation and voting behavior in western countries.

    With your second paragraph, you jump straight into questions regarding events, processes, structures, and ideational themes of current Thai politics. This, of course, is a little too much for this comment to answer (it has become long enough already). However, I might mention that referencing “the state” as having to accept this (the Red Shirts) or that (the Yellow Shirts) might not really be the issue here. Anyway, regarding the questions of whether the opposing camps need to talk with each other, and what the main issues are regarding current Thai political structures, the following links might help to a certain extent.

    http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/bueros/thailand/09280.pdf

    Stent, James. 2010. “Thoughts on Thailand’s Turmoil.” http://poppyfieldjournal.blogspot.com/p/thoughts-on-thailands-turmoil-by-james.html A revised version appeard as “Thoughts on Thailand’s Turmoil, 11 June 2010.” In Bangkok May 2010: Perspectives on a Divided Thailand, eds. Michael J. Montesano, Pavin Chachavalpongpun, and Aekapol Chongvilaivan, pp. 15-41. Singapore: ISEAS.

    http://www6.cityu.edu.hk/searc/Data/FileUpload/331/WP125_12_MNelson.pdf

    However, you might well have come across these sources already.

    No, sorry, I will not take part in this conference. Good luck in your studies, and enjoy the conference!

  16. soe myatt says:

    Having a dream is not meant that away from reality. Have you heard about Martin Luther King who said “I have a dream”. And when we say voices, why can’t we hear the voices of both sides, U Zaw Win?

  17. BKK lawyer says:

    The new layout is nice.

    What do you call that color? Not so sure I like that.

  18. Nattavud Pimpa says:

    The 2nd Thai Studies Conference in Melbourne has launched the call for papers now. Please go the the website or contact me directly.

  19. Viroj NaRanong says:

    While NSO’s data are useful/informative, we have to be careful when using them. Like Andrew has pointed out in one of his earlier posts, often a significant part of a Thai farmer’s/peasant’s income come from off-farm or non-farm activities. NSO has at least a few regular surveys (LFS & SES) that touch upon these figures. I think the 40% figure come from the usual definition of farmer (which include ones who work not so many hours on farm but spend more time on farm than on other economic activities). More than a decade ago, when almost 50% of the labor force was categorized as “farmers”, I processed a few surveys using a definition of farmer as one whose main income was drawn from farm/agricultural activities, the percentage of farmers was down to less than 30%. I believe that now the percentage of farmers under the definition I used would be even less than that.

  20. Andrew MacGregor Marshall says:

    Maratjp’s intriguing and enigmatic comments, which tantalizingly hint at some kind of privileged access to information and deep insight into how future events will unfold, are typical of one of the key genres of discourse about the Thai royals – bogus insider intelligence. An easy way to signal high status in Thailand is to make throwaway comments that give the impression one has special access to esoteric information about the highest elites and the monarchy.

    In fact, of course, the speaker is almost always as clueless as everybody else – even people within the palace mostly struggle to know what is really going on, as Eric John’s now-famous cable 09BANGKOK2967 notes: “Even Thai relatively close to royal principals treat purported wishes conveyed by other royal associates with caution, given the tradition of self-serving ‘ang barami’.” But the beauty of bogus insider intelligence is that if you follow a few simple guidelines, nobody will challenge you, and you can keep pulling off the same trick for decades.

    The key thing is to be as vague as possible, because obviously if you make specific predictions in unambiguous language, your credibility will rapidly be depleted when they turn out to be wrong. So those wanting to deploy bogus insider intelligence to win respect and admiration among the Thailand Tatler set or at the FCCT bar should follow the example of Maratjp and say something portentous and gnomic like: “The issue is not whether or not Thaksin is on the side of the monarchy. There will be an interesting turn of events soon. An ironic turn of events.” Everybody else is totally baffled by such comments, but to admit this would be to signal that they are lower status and not privy to such lofty knowledge, so usually they all just not their heads sagely to try to signal that they, too, are within the circle of special knowledge. If anyone does ask impertinent questions, you can usually silence them by revealing a few more impenetrable details. Again, Maratjp is playing a textbook game here, adding “The question to ask is who will be supporting the lese majeste law and who will be opposed to it and why in the near future.” The implication is that if you don’t know the answer you are clearly an idiot, and so usually everybody agrees vehemently while exchanging knowing looks.

    Bogus insider intelligence works on the same principle as the weavers’ swindle in The Emperor’s New Clothes – people are reluctant to challenge it for fear of seeming ignorant and out of the loop.

    Michael Connors skewers this behaviour very accurately in Democracy and National Identity in Thailand, in a chapter 6 discussion of “the use of an informal and highly skewed body of knowledge about the king within academic and elite circles”:

    “Essentially, a number of royalist liberals are in a position to informally and formally highlight their interpretations of the king through anecdote and oямГcial versions of history. This provides the interpretation with some authority. Such interpretations emerge from what may be called the ‘insider knowledge complex’. Interviewers are often at the receiving end of this informal production of royal mythology. Many will be asked to turn oямА tape recorders during interviews so as to hear of the king’s positive interventions in politics and the like. Note, here, that even positive insider knowledge cannot be entrusted to the impersonal record of a tape recorder; rather it is dispatched for public consumption in a cautious and controlled way. When the insider puts it on public record, moving it from the level of privileged knowledge to public knowledge, it then becomes part of the staple of democratic justiямБcations about the present monarch. The insider knowledge complex basically valorizes those close to the monarchy as being able to interpret the role of the king, while outsiders, Thai and foreign, are seen as incapable of presenting authentic accounts of the role of the monarch. However, the tenability of insider knowledge is highly dubious… Insiders are not so much privileged observers of the real, but ideological proponents of skewed interpretations of the informal political role of the royals. It is, one might say, the hearsay of the ‘nudge and wink’ school.”

    One can understand the necessity of being vague and enigmatic sometimes when discussing the monarchy in Thailand – it’s essential if you want to stay out of jail. But New Mandala is a forum where even the most taboo royal issues can be discussed, and Maratjp is posting under a pseudonym. So there is really no reason to be so mysterious.

    So can you tell us in plainer and more straightforward language, Maratjp, what exactly you are talking about?

    Is it simply that Thailand’s royalists hate Vajiralongkorn and plan to sabotage his succession, while Thaksin’s network wants the crown prince to become Rama X, and so when Bhumibol dies the traitorous Thaksinites will be backing the legitimate heir to the throne while the royalists will be doing their utmost to undermine him? If so, this is a fairly obvious point and could have been made simply and without the theatrics.

    Or do you have inside knowledge of some crucial impending development? If so, just tell us what it is. If you are worried that doing so could put you in danger, you and anyone else with dramatic insight into future events would be welcome to e-mail it privately to me and I will be delighted to post it here without giving away your identity, for the benefit of the wider community. That way, we can start to shift discourse about the royal family out of the realm of hints and whispers and bogus intelligence, and into the light.