I had just found this yesterday. To claim that “The Journal Of The Siam Society, the oldest and most prestigious academic publication in Southeast Asia” is probably false on both counts.
At least the “Journal of the Straits Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society” was first published in 1878 and continues today as the “Journal of the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society”. It did cease publishing from late 1941 to June 1947 as a result of the Japanese invasion. Not sure if there are any older journals than this.
As to “most prestigious”, that might be debated for some time, and yet I think what is meant is “most royal”. The story of the royal connection to JSS and how it was used to develop some of the royalist ideology would be an interesting one.
As you say yourself, we can never really know whether a Thai athlete who holds an photograph of King Bhumibol on the podium is doing so voluntarily out of a genuine reverence for their monarch or because of the immense pressure from Thai society and Thai sports officials to do so.
Athletes are well aware of the ostracism and social media hate campaigns they may face if they do not proclaim their love for the king. Plus they could see financial and logistical support for their training suddenly start to evaporate.
Love and respect are only meaningful if they are freely given, and since we generally have no way of knowing whether Thai athletes are acting voluntarily and with genuine sincerity, the gesture of holding Bhumibol’s photograph has become essentially worthless.
It also reflects the insecurity and vanity of the royalist establishment. Plenty of British medal winners are (unlike me) proud royalists but they don’t feel a need to ostentatiously proclaim this at every opportunity, and nobody pressures them to do so. Were they to wave a photograph of Queen Elizabeth on the podium, most Britons (including most royalists) would rightly consider it a rather embarrassing and inappropriate thing to do.
It is true that not all Thais love their King. But for Pimsiri and many Thais, the custom of holding his portrait is still associated to the Thai nationhood in their thoughts.
If she is not pressed from the Thai authorities to do so (will we know for sure?), it is a personal act to be ‘herself’ and in a moment that she represented a nation and associated to the national constitution she hold to. Of course, this might not represent the concept of a nation preferred by some Thais (it would make them feel left out during Pimsiri’s celebration).
I am not saying, in the current context of Thai political climate, that the act is now apolitical but this needs, still, a set of interpretation. It doesn’t look like a direct political act. It might, in the case of the Black Power salute or if the Scottish or Aboriginal flags were displayed in celebration.
We should condemn if Thai authorities insist that all Thai athletes must act this way. But if it is a personal position, and as other athletes from other countries can display their national identities in ways that hide or resurface national conflicts, why this one should not be unyeilded?
As Andrew Walker says in 21: “there is wide-ranging, and often critical, discussion of Royal Project activities” as meaning that the discussion is published? “””
There are wide range discussions about the Royals taking place all over Thailand, I hear them all the time, but only if all of the people in the room are known, or you could join the old lady from Australia that “inappropriately gestured”, Da Torpedo, or Joe Gordon in the Bangkok version of the Hanoi Hilton.
Andrew Spooner #36: US sprinters Tommie Smith and John Carlos were stripped of their medals….
————
No, Andrew, they were never stripped off their medals. A look on the medal tables for 1968, will show that.
They were thrown out from the Olympic village/US delegation, period.
(wikipedia excerpt):
IOC president Avery Brundage deemed a political statement unfit for the apolitical, international forum the Olympic Games was supposed to be. In an immediate response to their actions, he ordered Smith and Carlos suspended from the U.S. team and banned from the Olympic Village. Many supporters, however, praised the men for their bravery. The men’s gesture had lingering effects for all three athletes, the most serious of which were death threats against Carlos, Smith, and their families. Although it has been reported that Carlos and Smith were stripped of their medals, Carlos has indicated this is not true and his medal is with his mother.
Andrew S, why do you interpret “there is wide-ranging, and often critical, discussion of Royal Project activities” as meaning that the discussion is published? Are the political opinions of farmers, local officials, RPF staff etc. not to be considered because they don’t publish them?
Removing the medal from this athlete would only be a massive PR coup for the royalists. Dumb move.
US sprinters Tommie Smith and John Carlos were stripped of their medals in 1968 – turned them, quite rightly, into folk heroes and they’ve now had a movie made about them. If this Thai athlete was stripped of their medal they’d instantly be compared to the Smith/Carlos – that would be appalling.
Also not sure the world cares much if a Thai athlete holds up a picture of the king or anyone else – and not sure this has been reported in UK or anywhere else. International image changed? Nah, as I’m not sure too many people have even noticed. Biggest Thai-angled Olympic story in international media has been last night’s dodgy boxing result.
Another interesting Olympic fact is that the Juan Antonio Samaranch who was boss of the Olympics for 30years was once a card carrying member of Franco’s fascist party. There’s a photo here which claims to be of Samaranch making a Nazi salute at a commemoration for Hitler. Nice.
You said “there is wide-ranging, and often critical, discussion of Royal Project activities.”
I previously politely asked you to point me and other readers to where we can read this kind of discussion. You didn’t publish the comment. Not sure why.
I’ll ask again. Where are these critical discussions taking place and where can we read them and possibly take part in them?
My last comment on this subject.
The companies advertising at the Olympics advertise to make more money and to show the world how good they are when they treat workers in the third world like scum and pollute everything they touch. If companies can make political statements to hide the truth, why not the main players, the athletes? Politics and sport have mixed since the Greeks first thought up the Olympic games and will continue until someone decides to blow up the world.
What about when Cathy Freeman did her lap of honour in 2000 , She had Aborginal Flag on displayed , do you consider this political statement? Olympic Game never be free from politic , “Cold War” boycott in Moscow 1980 and in LA 1984 , “Black power” statment in 1968 , Taiwan flag controversy in 2000 , and Tibet protest against China in 2008.
The motto “he who has been working hard for the country” was formulated in the 70s-80s by the CIA in order to counter the communist threat. Its a irony that you stated it as a “fact” and not “propaganda”. However, the monarchy is smart enough to act “apolitical” to preserved its legitimacy throughout its resurgence to power since Salit coup of 1957 . Taken that into consideration the monarchy has been “politicized” itself heavily since 2006 coup. As AMM said, the image of the monarch has changed dramatically and was not held to the same regard.
And as a side note, not all Thais love their king, that statement is a delusion and you should woke up and face the truth.
” . . . whether you personally love the king or not, you cannot be taken seriously in a debate about Thai politics in 2012 if you pretend the debate about the monarchy is not taking place at all.”
Oh the debate about the monarchy is indeed taking place and by Thais and maybe on a near daily basis. But that is another matter . . . and come reckoning time (HMK’s passing) the Thais will settle it their way, awkwardly as usual, but their way, AND, has nothing whatsoever to do with the Olympics medal HMK-photo-hoisting-gesture.
Andrew MacGreggor Marshall had waded into the ridiculous and the absurd to suggest that there is something ‘solemn and sublime’ about ‘hoisting a Thaksin (a Thai figure of unaldurated derision) photo’ in an Olympic medals award ceremony.
But hey the Reds could hold their own Esan athletics . . . the hoist every Thaksin silly photos at every event.
1. Pimsiri’s behaviour was intentional; she chose to hold the photo of the king at that particular moment, when million of people around the world were watching. The fact that the king himself is a political actor, powerful and yet divisive, allows one to question if Pimsiri’s act could be intepreted as political propaganda.
2. Another fact: the King is not loved by all Thais.
3. “We” should not be used to refer to all Thais.
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Siam Society online
I had just found this yesterday. To claim that “The Journal Of The Siam Society, the oldest and most prestigious academic publication in Southeast Asia” is probably false on both counts.
At least the “Journal of the Straits Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society” was first published in 1878 and continues today as the “Journal of the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society”. It did cease publishing from late 1941 to June 1947 as a result of the Japanese invasion. Not sure if there are any older journals than this.
As to “most prestigious”, that might be debated for some time, and yet I think what is meant is “most royal”. The story of the royal connection to JSS and how it was used to develop some of the royalist ideology would be an interesting one.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
A Korean athlete deemed to have made a political statement at these Olympics was excluded from an award ceremony.
Post Thaksin politics
I get a server not available message, but presumably that has to do with a problem at CMU, hopefully temporary.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
Winyu #40
As you say yourself, we can never really know whether a Thai athlete who holds an photograph of King Bhumibol on the podium is doing so voluntarily out of a genuine reverence for their monarch or because of the immense pressure from Thai society and Thai sports officials to do so.
Athletes are well aware of the ostracism and social media hate campaigns they may face if they do not proclaim their love for the king. Plus they could see financial and logistical support for their training suddenly start to evaporate.
Love and respect are only meaningful if they are freely given, and since we generally have no way of knowing whether Thai athletes are acting voluntarily and with genuine sincerity, the gesture of holding Bhumibol’s photograph has become essentially worthless.
It also reflects the insecurity and vanity of the royalist establishment. Plenty of British medal winners are (unlike me) proud royalists but they don’t feel a need to ostentatiously proclaim this at every opportunity, and nobody pressures them to do so. Were they to wave a photograph of Queen Elizabeth on the podium, most Britons (including most royalists) would rightly consider it a rather embarrassing and inappropriate thing to do.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
It is true that not all Thais love their King. But for Pimsiri and many Thais, the custom of holding his portrait is still associated to the Thai nationhood in their thoughts.
If she is not pressed from the Thai authorities to do so (will we know for sure?), it is a personal act to be ‘herself’ and in a moment that she represented a nation and associated to the national constitution she hold to. Of course, this might not represent the concept of a nation preferred by some Thais (it would make them feel left out during Pimsiri’s celebration).
I am not saying, in the current context of Thai political climate, that the act is now apolitical but this needs, still, a set of interpretation. It doesn’t look like a direct political act. It might, in the case of the Black Power salute or if the Scottish or Aboriginal flags were displayed in celebration.
We should condemn if Thai authorities insist that all Thai athletes must act this way. But if it is a personal position, and as other athletes from other countries can display their national identities in ways that hide or resurface national conflicts, why this one should not be unyeilded?
Developing the monarchy
As Andrew Walker says in 21: “there is wide-ranging, and often critical, discussion of Royal Project activities” as meaning that the discussion is published? “””
There are wide range discussions about the Royals taking place all over Thailand, I hear them all the time, but only if all of the people in the room are known, or you could join the old lady from Australia that “inappropriately gestured”, Da Torpedo, or Joe Gordon in the Bangkok version of the Hanoi Hilton.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
Andrew Spooner #36: US sprinters Tommie Smith and John Carlos were stripped of their medals….
————
No, Andrew, they were never stripped off their medals. A look on the medal tables for 1968, will show that.
They were thrown out from the Olympic village/US delegation, period.
(wikipedia excerpt):
IOC president Avery Brundage deemed a political statement unfit for the apolitical, international forum the Olympic Games was supposed to be. In an immediate response to their actions, he ordered Smith and Carlos suspended from the U.S. team and banned from the Olympic Village. Many supporters, however, praised the men for their bravery. The men’s gesture had lingering effects for all three athletes, the most serious of which were death threats against Carlos, Smith, and their families. Although it has been reported that Carlos and Smith were stripped of their medals, Carlos has indicated this is not true and his medal is with his mother.
Developing the monarchy
Andrew S, why do you interpret “there is wide-ranging, and often critical, discussion of Royal Project activities” as meaning that the discussion is published? Are the political opinions of farmers, local officials, RPF staff etc. not to be considered because they don’t publish them?
Megatrends at Malaysia’s 13th general elections
Dr. Bridget Welsh comments on the upcoming Malaysian elections [13th General Elections].
http://youtu.be/-dSMurydoEk?hd=1
Thailand’s silver snatched?
Removing the medal from this athlete would only be a massive PR coup for the royalists. Dumb move.
US sprinters Tommie Smith and John Carlos were stripped of their medals in 1968 – turned them, quite rightly, into folk heroes and they’ve now had a movie made about them. If this Thai athlete was stripped of their medal they’d instantly be compared to the Smith/Carlos – that would be appalling.
Also not sure the world cares much if a Thai athlete holds up a picture of the king or anyone else – and not sure this has been reported in UK or anywhere else. International image changed? Nah, as I’m not sure too many people have even noticed. Biggest Thai-angled Olympic story in international media has been last night’s dodgy boxing result.
Another interesting Olympic fact is that the Juan Antonio Samaranch who was boss of the Olympics for 30years was once a card carrying member of Franco’s fascist party. There’s a photo here which claims to be of Samaranch making a Nazi salute at a commemoration for Hitler. Nice.
http://www.transparencyinsport.org/The_IOCs_Favourite_Fascist/the_iocs_favourite_fascist.html
Developing the monarchy
Andrew Walker
You said “there is wide-ranging, and often critical, discussion of Royal Project activities.”
I previously politely asked you to point me and other readers to where we can read this kind of discussion. You didn’t publish the comment. Not sure why.
I’ll ask again. Where are these critical discussions taking place and where can we read them and possibly take part in them?
Or will you delete this comment as well?
Thailand’s silver snatched?
@joe_jitti (31):
What part of “Article 5o of the Olympic Charter (in force as from 8 July 2011)” don’t you understand?
RV
Post Thaksin politics
The book is available online, free!, here
http://www.cras.soc.cmu.ac.th/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=95&lang=th
In case you still could not download it please contact us.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
My last comment on this subject.
The companies advertising at the Olympics advertise to make more money and to show the world how good they are when they treat workers in the third world like scum and pollute everything they touch. If companies can make political statements to hide the truth, why not the main players, the athletes? Politics and sport have mixed since the Greeks first thought up the Olympic games and will continue until someone decides to blow up the world.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
What about when Cathy Freeman did her lap of honour in 2000 , She had Aborginal Flag on displayed , do you consider this political statement? Olympic Game never be free from politic , “Cold War” boycott in Moscow 1980 and in LA 1984 , “Black power” statment in 1968 , Taiwan flag controversy in 2000 , and Tibet protest against China in 2008.
Post Thaksin politics
please provide a link so we can order this book
Thailand’s silver snatched?
#22: “Perhaps if Pimsiri Sirikaew was educated with a PhD I would be much harder upon him, but I only see him as a product of his culture”
Sounds like a very mixed up culture to me 🙂
Thailand’s silver snatched?
Areepan Zielonka – 23
The motto “he who has been working hard for the country” was formulated in the 70s-80s by the CIA in order to counter the communist threat. Its a irony that you stated it as a “fact” and not “propaganda”. However, the monarchy is smart enough to act “apolitical” to preserved its legitimacy throughout its resurgence to power since Salit coup of 1957 . Taken that into consideration the monarchy has been “politicized” itself heavily since 2006 coup. As AMM said, the image of the monarch has changed dramatically and was not held to the same regard.
And as a side note, not all Thais love their king, that statement is a delusion and you should woke up and face the truth.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
” . . . whether you personally love the king or not, you cannot be taken seriously in a debate about Thai politics in 2012 if you pretend the debate about the monarchy is not taking place at all.”
Oh the debate about the monarchy is indeed taking place and by Thais and maybe on a near daily basis. But that is another matter . . . and come reckoning time (HMK’s passing) the Thais will settle it their way, awkwardly as usual, but their way, AND, has nothing whatsoever to do with the Olympics medal HMK-photo-hoisting-gesture.
Andrew MacGreggor Marshall had waded into the ridiculous and the absurd to suggest that there is something ‘solemn and sublime’ about ‘hoisting a Thaksin (a Thai figure of unaldurated derision) photo’ in an Olympic medals award ceremony.
But hey the Reds could hold their own Esan athletics . . . the hoist every Thaksin silly photos at every event.
Thailand’s silver snatched?
I have minor points to make.
1. Pimsiri’s behaviour was intentional; she chose to hold the photo of the king at that particular moment, when million of people around the world were watching. The fact that the king himself is a political actor, powerful and yet divisive, allows one to question if Pimsiri’s act could be intepreted as political propaganda.
2. Another fact: the King is not loved by all Thais.
3. “We” should not be used to refer to all Thais.