there are calls from progressives, notably the Khana Nitirat, to abolish the law
Technically, this is true; Nitirat do suggest that 112 be scrapped. But they also propose a replacement which still detain special law for protection of King, Queen, Crown Prince for libel. Overall, I think most people (even Nitirat themselves) would characterize Nitirat’s proposals as not abolishing the law, but amending it.
Prajak’s take on the “three worlds”, while interesting, could be said to be misleading; no other issues “restrain academic work” like the monarchy issue. Not even close.
Thanks, Peter, for having hit the nail on the head. I, too, see that Thailand has always been colonized, mostly by the Thais’ own doing. Look around you and you will see my Thai compatriots stand ready to ape what comes from abroad. Things from other countries get us Thais excited and ready to imitate. When we are faced with some tough problems, we import experts from abroad to tell us what to do. We Thais are lucky that there are Americans, Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans in this world, so that Thais can turn to them when problems come up in Thailand. And I pity my American friends, who can turn to no one but themselves when they have problems. Yes, sir, we in Thailand are permanently colonized!
Dear Tul: You’d be a lot better off going back to treating patients amidst the severe shortage of doctors in the country. You are not equipped to deal with politics, which brings you down and down for sure.
Thai elites are in a sense cultural primitives. It’s as if you took feudal European aristocrats from the thirteenth century and put them in modern Paris. They would still believe their attitudes and behavior were proper, and would still feel innately superiority to the common man, while those around them would view them as bizarre. Still, these feudal aristocrats, with horse and sword, would be thuggish and dangerous
In Thailand the elite, confident in their own superiority and fitness to rule, look down their noses at peasants who are demonstrably more developed culturally and intellectually that their erstwhile masters. And as long as the thugs have the guns, the primitives will rule.
Somsak Jeamteerasakul: 112 can be abolished. Then you and your kind can take off with .358s. I don’t want to listen to any explanations from you anymore.
Observations – gotta read his entire drivel to catch the whole gist, but so far he has said nothing that fellow Thais would find unusual. According to the raison d’├кtre of Thainess his words were simply those of someone a bit upset against someone who stepped over the line and kind of deserves a little corrective social criticism. Note that there was likely a great deal of semi-silent acclamation over the threat-not threat.
Many people have a problem with trying to reconcile apparent dichotomies between what a person is and what he does. In Thailand such as with a physician seemingly threatening someone the dichotomy does not exist. The culture really also possesses nothing akin to hypocrisy as moral and ethical values are totally unrelated to actual essence of what a person is. Well, they are taught otherwise but in fact doctors do not require any sort of higher plane of social responsibility – in Thailand.
Recall that shortly after brave Worachete of Enlightened Jurists came out and suggested modifying or repealing 112 that he was summarily punched around by two guys who did not like what he stood for. By all rights they should have then immediately punched each other to a senseless pulp for what they stood for.
The recent release of police officers convicted (con vict ed) of murder, and refusal to release Ah Kong on bail, which contributed to his death, does not an iota disturb the collective Thainess ether that we all live in here.
An old film today on TV (In Time) carried a line, paraphrasing, “We can have whatever we want in this society…all we have to do is nothing interesting.” Now imagine an entire culture, such as the one we are amongst, brought up, inculcated, brow-beaten, cajoled, bribed, deluded and educated to hold all this as semi-sacred, then you have a little idea of how difficult it will be to steer thinking like that of the good doctor toward any moral bearing.
Examples of speech and deed spiraling out of control are numerous among all participants in this conflict. Righteous anger seeking retribution (not reconciliation) is more likely to be found these days than the process of rational debate, self-control, compromise and consensus as found in the drafting of the 1997 constitution for instance, but what exactly is the point in revealing only half the picture over and over again? Selectively citing only examples from one side, which in turn are picked up and broadcast by the international media only to return to Thailand and cause loss of face, just helps keep the conflict and enmity going, round after round, adding fuel to the fire of anger or as the Pali scriptures say: through enmity is further enmity born.
‘He insulted me,
hit me,
beat me,
robbed me’ –
for those who don’t brood on this,
hostility is stilled.
Hostilities aren’t stilled
through hostility,
regardless.
Hostilities are stilled
through non-hostility:
this, an unending truth.
Unlike those who don’t realize
that we’re here on the verge
of perishing,
those who do:
their quarrels are stilled.
Dhammapada Verse 5
Kalayakkhini Vatthu
Na hi verena verani
sammantidha kudacanam
averena ca sammanti
esa dhammo sanantano.
Verily, never is enmity appeased by returning enmity.
Only by amity is enmity appeased.
This is an ancient truth (or eternal Law)
Pali chants etch this into the mind:
р╕Др╕▓р╕Цр╕▓р╣Бр╕Ьр╣Ир╣Ар╕бр╕Хр╕Хр╕▓р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕кр╕гр╕гр╕Юр╕кр╕▒р╕Хр╕зр╣Мр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в (Mett─Б bh─Бvan─Б) – spreading loving kindness to all beings
р╕кр╕▒р╕Юр╣Ар╕Ю р╕кр╕▒р╕Хр╕Хр╕▓ р╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╕╡ р╣Вр╕лр╕Щр╕Хр╕╕ – (р╕кр╕▒р╕Хр╕зр╣Мр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕вр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Ыр╕зр╕З р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕Вр╣М р╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Ф р╣Бр╕Бр╣И р╣Ар╕Ир╣Зр╕Ъ р╕Хр╕▓р╕в р╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕вр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕кр╕┤р╣Йр╕Щ р╕Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╣Ар╕Цр╕┤р╕Ф)
Sabbe satt─Б Sukh─л hontu – May all beings subject to birth, aging, illness, and death, be happy.
р╕кр╕▒р╕Юр╣Ар╕Ю р╕кр╕▒р╕Хр╕Хр╕▓ р╕нр╕░р╣Ар╕зр╕гр╕▓ р╣Вр╕лр╕Щр╕Хр╕╕ – р╕Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╣Ар╕Цр╕┤р╕Ф р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╣Ар╕зр╕гр╣Бр╕Бр╣Ир╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Ар╕ер╕в
Sabbe satt─Б Aver─Б hontu – May all beings be free from enmity, ill-will, …
(Source: CMS won’t accept links but source of texts can easily be found with Google)
While in most of the developed world, educated middle-class professionals would feel awkward and even ashamed of holding and acting on extreme rightwing or even fascist attitudes and views, what is odd about the Thailand situation is how proud and open middle-class professionals are to hold and act on such views. Thai Royalism seems to be a magic cloak that makes whatever these people say and do respectable and virtuous, after all they are providing service to their god, the reincarnated Vishnu.
Andrew @8:
‘”Farmer” is clearly inadequate to describe rural people who, in
the majority of cases, earn most of their income off farm’.
Sorry, but I don’t agree. Where I live the majority do earn their living by
farming. Usually it is not enough to live on and their incomes are
supplemented by their sons and daughters who are no longer rural people.
They are urban people working as construction workers, taxi drivers, sex
workers, etc or even working abroad, South Korea being the favourite country at present.
I certainly would describe those living in my village as farmers. Whether you
then describe them further as small scale or otherwise is a separate issue.
I think that it is important that the term “peasants” does carry a negative weight with connotations of backwardness and feudalism etc. Clearly, the Bangkok establishment and middle class regard Thailand’s farmers, peasants, agriculturalists or whatever you want to call them as peasants in the negative sense of the word.
By calling them “political peasants” with the implication that they are aware and savvy rather than backward and feudal but that there is still backwardness and feudalism in play , I think Andrew uses and overturns the negative connotations of the word. A clever and appropriate choice in my opinion.
Why not call them village farmers or smallholder farmers? In my 30 years of working and living in northeast Thailand I have never heard the word peasant farmer. In all of my research papers I either use the terms smallholder farmer or village smallholder farmer.
From this additional post, it looks as if the key issue concerns the supply (state), demand (people), and intermediary (politicians) side mechanisms/processes that have led to the expansion of the Thai political system’s component of public or audience (the other two being politics, and administration), thereby making it more inclusive.
Using the expression “political society” evokes other adjectives that might be paired with “society,” such as “economic,” “mass media,” “judicial,” “medical,” or “educational.” So, do the peasants, farmers or whatever one might call them not only constitute a political sphere that is somehow separate from the national level’s “political society” (although the peasants’ “political society” is said to have evolved in interaction with the national-level state), but are the other spheres also separate/different from the provincial/rural-level societal structures?
Or is the expression of “political society” merely another way of saying that large sections of the rural population have developed a new set of political attitudes towards the state and the politicians, with brings them more in tune with more urban sectors of the population?
Though I’ve interviewed Partha two months ago but still wondering about his idea of political society. Anyway, it’s very keen to wait to read your next post that appropriated his idea to Thai’s situation. Maybe I would leave comments later.
I would like to call them Thailand’s liberals, but then perhaps that wouldn’t antagonise, or at least shift the consciousness of those who still persist with an outlook on livelihoods ‘out in the sticks’ (not that towns like Ban Tiam can really be out in the sticks ala Heart of Darkness) as being feudal. ‘Peasants’ strikes me as a term that has been used throughout history, and one that doesn’t necessarily have to be associated with negativity – but that it is, even here, more reflects the associations of those who disown parts of language because contemporary prejudice is better expressed with more neutrality.
Thanks Grant. Happy to be romantic on this one. When I was at school, my best friend had to give a presentation on peasants. But he accidentally prepared his talk on pheasants. Mistakes can be the best learning experience and “peasant” has stuck with me ever since. AW
My understanding of the economic difference between peasants and farmers (in what is a longstanding debate) is that peasants become farmers when the balance for the reproduction of their farms shifts off-farm. This is now the case in Thailand, and is beginning to become the case in Laos. It has long been the case in Australia, USA, Canada, and elsewhere.
It’s nice to able to label Andrew a ‘romantic’ once in a while, and I think his attachment to ‘peasant’ is such.
Like most people, I have not yet read Andrew’s justification for persisting with the term though.
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Thai Studies in the Shadow of (Self) Censorship
Just one or two quick points:
Khun Preedee writes:
there are calls from progressives, notably the Khana Nitirat, to abolish the law
Technically, this is true; Nitirat do suggest that 112 be scrapped. But they also propose a replacement which still detain special law for protection of King, Queen, Crown Prince for libel. Overall, I think most people (even Nitirat themselves) would characterize Nitirat’s proposals as not abolishing the law, but amending it.
Prajak’s take on the “three worlds”, while interesting, could be said to be misleading; no other issues “restrain academic work” like the monarchy issue. Not even close.
Review of Land and Loyalty
Thanks, Peter, for having hit the nail on the head. I, too, see that Thailand has always been colonized, mostly by the Thais’ own doing. Look around you and you will see my Thai compatriots stand ready to ape what comes from abroad. Things from other countries get us Thais excited and ready to imitate. When we are faced with some tough problems, we import experts from abroad to tell us what to do. We Thais are lucky that there are Americans, Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans in this world, so that Thais can turn to them when problems come up in Thailand. And I pity my American friends, who can turn to no one but themselves when they have problems. Yes, sir, we in Thailand are permanently colonized!
Threatening violence and the end of logic
Dear Tul: You’d be a lot better off going back to treating patients amidst the severe shortage of doctors in the country. You are not equipped to deal with politics, which brings you down and down for sure.
Thai Studies in the Shadow of (Self) Censorship
The answer is: no answer as usual.
Threatening violence and the end of logic
Thai elites are in a sense cultural primitives. It’s as if you took feudal European aristocrats from the thirteenth century and put them in modern Paris. They would still believe their attitudes and behavior were proper, and would still feel innately superiority to the common man, while those around them would view them as bizarre. Still, these feudal aristocrats, with horse and sword, would be thuggish and dangerous
In Thailand the elite, confident in their own superiority and fitness to rule, look down their noses at peasants who are demonstrably more developed culturally and intellectually that their erstwhile masters. And as long as the thugs have the guns, the primitives will rule.
Threatening violence and the end of logic
Re-translation –
“р╕кр╕бр╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕┤р╣М р╣Ар╕Ир╕╡р╕вр╕бр╕Шр╕╡р╕гр╕кр╕Бр╕╕р╕е р╣Ар╕ер╕┤р╕Б 112 р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Бр╣Зр╣Др╕Фр╣Й р╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕зр╕бр╕╢р╕Зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╣Ар╕нр╕▓ .358 р╣Др╕Ыр╕Бр╣Зр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ р╕Бр╕╣р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕нр╕вр╕▓р╕Бр╕Яр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕│р╕нр╕Шр╕┤р╕Ър╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕Фр╣Жр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕бр╕╢р╕Зр╕нр╕╡р╕Бр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з”
Somsak Jeamteerasakul: 112 can be abolished. Then you and your kind can take off with .358s. I don’t want to listen to any explanations from you anymore.
Observations – gotta read his entire drivel to catch the whole gist, but so far he has said nothing that fellow Thais would find unusual. According to the raison d’├кtre of Thainess his words were simply those of someone a bit upset against someone who stepped over the line and kind of deserves a little corrective social criticism. Note that there was likely a great deal of semi-silent acclamation over the threat-not threat.
Many people have a problem with trying to reconcile apparent dichotomies between what a person is and what he does. In Thailand such as with a physician seemingly threatening someone the dichotomy does not exist. The culture really also possesses nothing akin to hypocrisy as moral and ethical values are totally unrelated to actual essence of what a person is. Well, they are taught otherwise but in fact doctors do not require any sort of higher plane of social responsibility – in Thailand.
Recall that shortly after brave Worachete of Enlightened Jurists came out and suggested modifying or repealing 112 that he was summarily punched around by two guys who did not like what he stood for. By all rights they should have then immediately punched each other to a senseless pulp for what they stood for.
The recent release of police officers convicted (con vict ed) of murder, and refusal to release Ah Kong on bail, which contributed to his death, does not an iota disturb the collective Thainess ether that we all live in here.
An old film today on TV (In Time) carried a line, paraphrasing, “We can have whatever we want in this society…all we have to do is nothing interesting.” Now imagine an entire culture, such as the one we are amongst, brought up, inculcated, brow-beaten, cajoled, bribed, deluded and educated to hold all this as semi-sacred, then you have a little idea of how difficult it will be to steer thinking like that of the good doctor toward any moral bearing.
Threatening violence and the end of logic
This is the same Dr Tul who likes to appear so reasonable – e.g. http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2012/06/20126127231108801.html (from about 13.50) and http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Historic-round-table-confronts-lese-majeste-30187420.html
Threatening violence and the end of logic
Examples of speech and deed spiraling out of control are numerous among all participants in this conflict. Righteous anger seeking retribution (not reconciliation) is more likely to be found these days than the process of rational debate, self-control, compromise and consensus as found in the drafting of the 1997 constitution for instance, but what exactly is the point in revealing only half the picture over and over again? Selectively citing only examples from one side, which in turn are picked up and broadcast by the international media only to return to Thailand and cause loss of face, just helps keep the conflict and enmity going, round after round, adding fuel to the fire of anger or as the Pali scriptures say: through enmity is further enmity born.
‘He insulted me,
hit me,
beat me,
robbed me’ –
for those who don’t brood on this,
hostility is stilled.
Hostilities aren’t stilled
through hostility,
regardless.
Hostilities are stilled
through non-hostility:
this, an unending truth.
Unlike those who don’t realize
that we’re here on the verge
of perishing,
those who do:
their quarrels are stilled.
Dhammapada Verse 5
Kalayakkhini Vatthu
Na hi verena verani
sammantidha kudacanam
averena ca sammanti
esa dhammo sanantano.
Verily, never is enmity appeased by returning enmity.
Only by amity is enmity appeased.
This is an ancient truth (or eternal Law)
Pali chants etch this into the mind:
р╕Др╕▓р╕Цр╕▓р╣Бр╕Ьр╣Ир╣Ар╕бр╕Хр╕Хр╕▓р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕кр╕гр╕гр╕Юр╕кр╕▒р╕Хр╕зр╣Мр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в (Mett─Б bh─Бvan─Б) – spreading loving kindness to all beings
р╕кр╕▒р╕Юр╣Ар╕Ю р╕кр╕▒р╕Хр╕Хр╕▓ р╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╕╡ р╣Вр╕лр╕Щр╕Хр╕╕ – (р╕кр╕▒р╕Хр╕зр╣Мр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕вр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Ыр╕зр╕З р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕Вр╣М р╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Ф р╣Бр╕Бр╣И р╣Ар╕Ир╣Зр╕Ъ р╕Хр╕▓р╕в р╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕вр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕кр╕┤р╣Йр╕Щ р╕Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╣Ар╕Цр╕┤р╕Ф)
Sabbe satt─Б Sukh─л hontu – May all beings subject to birth, aging, illness, and death, be happy.
р╕кр╕▒р╕Юр╣Ар╕Ю р╕кр╕▒р╕Хр╕Хр╕▓ р╕нр╕░р╣Ар╕зр╕гр╕▓ р╣Вр╕лр╕Щр╕Хр╕╕ – р╕Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╣Ар╕Цр╕┤р╕Ф р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╣Ар╕зр╕гр╣Бр╕Бр╣Ир╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Ар╕ер╕в
Sabbe satt─Б Aver─Б hontu – May all beings be free from enmity, ill-will, …
(Source: CMS won’t accept links but source of texts can easily be found with Google)
Threatening violence and the end of logic
While in most of the developed world, educated middle-class professionals would feel awkward and even ashamed of holding and acting on extreme rightwing or even fascist attitudes and views, what is odd about the Thailand situation is how proud and open middle-class professionals are to hold and act on such views. Thai Royalism seems to be a magic cloak that makes whatever these people say and do respectable and virtuous, after all they are providing service to their god, the reincarnated Vishnu.
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Andrew @8:
‘”Farmer” is clearly inadequate to describe rural people who, in
the majority of cases, earn most of their income off farm’.
Sorry, but I don’t agree. Where I live the majority do earn their living by
farming. Usually it is not enough to live on and their incomes are
supplemented by their sons and daughters who are no longer rural people.
They are urban people working as construction workers, taxi drivers, sex
workers, etc or even working abroad, South Korea being the favourite country at present.
I certainly would describe those living in my village as farmers. Whether you
then describe them further as small scale or otherwise is a separate issue.
Review of The Art and Architecture of the People’s Party
Here is a set of photos I took of this monument some years back
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11401580@N03/sets/72157621305098337/with/3719374409/
Peasant political society
Interesting and I look forward to your new book. As an aside I have just begun to readTyrell Haberkorns book ” Revolution Interrupted”
Thailand’s Political Peasants
I think that it is important that the term “peasants” does carry a negative weight with connotations of backwardness and feudalism etc. Clearly, the Bangkok establishment and middle class regard Thailand’s farmers, peasants, agriculturalists or whatever you want to call them as peasants in the negative sense of the word.
By calling them “political peasants” with the implication that they are aware and savvy rather than backward and feudal but that there is still backwardness and feudalism in play , I think Andrew uses and overturns the negative connotations of the word. A clever and appropriate choice in my opinion.
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Why not call them village farmers or smallholder farmers? In my 30 years of working and living in northeast Thailand I have never heard the word peasant farmer. In all of my research papers I either use the terms smallholder farmer or village smallholder farmer.
Peasant political society
From this additional post, it looks as if the key issue concerns the supply (state), demand (people), and intermediary (politicians) side mechanisms/processes that have led to the expansion of the Thai political system’s component of public or audience (the other two being politics, and administration), thereby making it more inclusive.
Using the expression “political society” evokes other adjectives that might be paired with “society,” such as “economic,” “mass media,” “judicial,” “medical,” or “educational.” So, do the peasants, farmers or whatever one might call them not only constitute a political sphere that is somehow separate from the national level’s “political society” (although the peasants’ “political society” is said to have evolved in interaction with the national-level state), but are the other spheres also separate/different from the provincial/rural-level societal structures?
Or is the expression of “political society” merely another way of saying that large sections of the rural population have developed a new set of political attitudes towards the state and the politicians, with brings them more in tune with more urban sectors of the population?
Thailand’s Political Peasants
So Andrew, did you mistake my contribution as being one about pheasants?
Peasant political society
Though I’ve interviewed Partha two months ago but still wondering about his idea of political society. Anyway, it’s very keen to wait to read your next post that appropriated his idea to Thai’s situation. Maybe I would leave comments later.
Thailand’s Political Peasants
I would like to call them Thailand’s liberals, but then perhaps that wouldn’t antagonise, or at least shift the consciousness of those who still persist with an outlook on livelihoods ‘out in the sticks’ (not that towns like Ban Tiam can really be out in the sticks ala Heart of Darkness) as being feudal. ‘Peasants’ strikes me as a term that has been used throughout history, and one that doesn’t necessarily have to be associated with negativity – but that it is, even here, more reflects the associations of those who disown parts of language because contemporary prejudice is better expressed with more neutrality.
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Thanks Grant. Happy to be romantic on this one. When I was at school, my best friend had to give a presentation on peasants. But he accidentally prepared his talk on pheasants. Mistakes can be the best learning experience and “peasant” has stuck with me ever since. AW
Thailand’s Political Peasants
My understanding of the economic difference between peasants and farmers (in what is a longstanding debate) is that peasants become farmers when the balance for the reproduction of their farms shifts off-farm. This is now the case in Thailand, and is beginning to become the case in Laos. It has long been the case in Australia, USA, Canada, and elsewhere.
It’s nice to able to label Andrew a ‘romantic’ once in a while, and I think his attachment to ‘peasant’ is such.
Like most people, I have not yet read Andrew’s justification for persisting with the term though.