We are all agreed (at least you and me are, anyway) that any use of racist language etc by the PAD is wrong and must be addressed, the same goes for the use of such language by any group or individual in any country.
Where, however, do you stand on the use of vile homophobic language? Where does this fit in your analysis? A case in point was the barrage of homophobic attacks that were launched against Gen Prem from the PAD stages. Jean-Marie le Pen would have been proud of such a repertoire of thuggish abuse, but where do you stand on this matter?
“But there are plenty of other ways to describe the PAD. As I’ve mentioned several times before, why not just use the PAD’s own publicly proclaimed agenda? They’re the ones saying “we want to destroy democracy”, not me. If “fascism” is too complex and dirty a word for the international media why not go with something like this?”
So now you are reneging on your insistence on the words fascist or fascism being used in describing the PAD on the news pages? …. Good……There are indeed plenty of other ways to ‘describe’ the PAD…. And those ways are often used, even if they don’t always get your seal of approval.
“It’s not “spin” either – it’s the accurate reporting of the PAD’s own self-proclaimed political position or a reference to an analysis provided by one of the region’s most respected human rights’ organisations.”
You approve of a human rights organisation?….. They must must be thrilled over at AHRC….. Is it an NGO?…. Are they ‘liberals’?…. Is a ‘Spooner Spring’ in progress?
#67 Greg Lowe (to Andrew Spooner)
“What is also curious is your odd attacks on NGOs, journalists and academics who don’t toe your ideological line. Why do you spend a lot of time doing this and virtually no time trying to hold the government of the day to account?”
The curious reality that launched a million words…… And then another million…. None of which answered the question…..
#66 John Wright
“Andrew Spooner’s beginning a dozen comments with “Dan …” when no “Dan” appears in any comment header is getting tiresome.”
Yes…. It’s a little tiresome, but not particularly offensive. Woof Woof has broad shoulders and can bare the abuse. As you may have realised someone was ‘cuckooing’ IDs on previous threads and then rabbiting away with abandon. This happened to three people…. Who does these kind of things?…. A buffoon quite clearly…. But the only surefire solution is to have been christened with a particularly silly name…. (Yours will take some work John)…. …. Pity New Mandala software doesn’t have a way to prevent this cuckooing of names, but they shouldn’t really have to be obliged to worry about it since it’s a childish abuse of the hospitality of the hard working moderators in the first place….
1. There are new participants, meaning Thaksin and his proxies are out of the picture, and most important …
2. People start focusing on policies to develop the country again for everyone including the red-shirts.
Reams and reams of postings like Jim Taylor’s without one mention of policy or concrete measures to alleviate poverty or develop the nation, literally tons of verbage devoted to political maneuverings with the hidden assumption that it will be some kind of revolution (reform is a much more humble affair) or sudden change in the system, brought about the saviour Thaksin presumably (and that is what the ruckus in parliament was about last week), through which Thailand will progress to some higher stage in which the people are finally liberated. All I can say is……. look around you at other Asian states, economic development is a gradual process that uses the institutions developed over decades or hundreds of years. Compare Thailand and Burma, Thailand chose to engage economically with the west and to develop its royal institutions and look where it is. Burma chose some socialist pipe-dream back in ’62 and look where it is.
“I’ve always said Thaksin should be opposed – but just by democratic means.”
No you haven’t. In fact you’ve spent a great part of the last couple of weeks expressly avoiding explaining why you your focus has shifted from defending the red shirts to first defining Thaksin’s PTP.
“In my view the solution to Thaksin was always more democracy, not less.”
Agreed. The Dems got trounced in the last election. The Thai people clearly support Thaksin/PTP to at least they can’t stand the Dems so much that they will hold their nose and vote PTP.
But I guess the bigger problem is how this “more democracy” is going to appear out of the ether. The PAD certainly aren’t going to magic it up, neither is Thaksin/PTP. There’s no point spending time here going into all of the efforts Dr T took to weaken constitutional checks and balances and curtail the freedom of the press, but can you answer this:
— How does the unity/autonomy bill which has been put together by the power elite in Thailand to support their own vested interests (old amart/landed aristocracy/establishment/military and new amart/new money/industrialists etc) etc help deliver a new, improved democratic system? Thaksin, the army, Suthep, Abhisit etc… all will get off for whatever they hay have done scott free. The dead UDD protesters and their families will never see justice. Surely the holding of power to account should be a key demand for such a defender of democracy as yourself.
“I also think the casual way that so-called “liberal” anti-Thaksinites align themselves with neo-fascists to be a disgrace. ”
Your problem is you paint anyone who is strongly anti-Thaksin as a liberal, PAD-support or Abhisit fanboy. Quite pathetic really. In the real world it is possible for people to have complex views on a situation where they support neither side. It doesn’t have to be “two legs good, four legs bad” you know.
What is also curious is your odd attacks on NGOs, journalists and academics who don’t toe your ideological line. Why do you spend a lot of time doing this and virtually no time trying to hold the government of the day to account?
Jon Wright said: “Andrew Spooner’s beginning a dozen comments with “Dan …” when no “Dan” appears in any comment header is getting tiresome – this is not how comments should appear on a respectable website – and I’m not blaming Andrew Spooner.”
Jon, have you not noticed that AS uses about seven sock puppet identities on this and other threads. In general (90% of the time) these are used so he can discuss his ideas with himself and further his agenda. The use of anonymous IDs is fine when people want to comment on issues which may carry legal implications, of if they just want to remain anonymous. But it is pathetic and intellectually dishonest to do this all the time just to try and make it sound like some people agree with your given line of argument. It does perhaps explain why the poor chap is so confused.
Andrew, it is also notable that for some bizarre reason you dismiss
Dan as an orientalist who focuses on providing an endless stream of Buddhist imagery (that’s one book on temples), perhaps if you hadn’t had your head buried in “A Spartacist’s Guide to Agit-Prop: Junior School Level, Book 1” you may have noticed he has been round the block a bit covering a broad range of issues from the Poll Tax Riots, Post-Saharto Indonesia and all the uprisings there, the Lebanon (I think), Afghanistan (Soviet era), post-KR Cambodia, Asian Tsunami and a bunch of other stuff.
Not that it really matters, but maybe he has a slightly broader perspective/experience than you would like to portray.
As for Thai fascism: “Also PAD supporters have routinely expressed virulent racist and violent anti-Cambodian & anti-Burmese views…” That’s despicable and undefendable. But there’s a lot of nascent racism and nationalism across the political spectrum here, all of which should be attacked.
I was talking about Newin Chidchob with a red shirt taxi driver. His response: “Newin mai chai khon Thai, khao pen khon khmen.” So anti-Cambodian feeling isn’t the exclusive preserve of the PAD. Sames goes for the Burmese, ethnic minorities and southerners.
What would be interesting would be to see how nationalism and racism are used and manipulated by most political parties and movements here. But clearly you wouldn’t be doing that as it doesn’t fit with your agenda.
So falling out with or running away from Pol Pot is supposed to get your slate wiped clean? Note that returning to the country holding Vietnam’s coat tails does NOT constitute “fighting against Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge” – he was fine holding Phnom Penh and letting the Vietnamese conscripts fight the KR.
Hun Sen is definitely a monster, let’s not forget it. He has blood on his hands going back to the inception of the brutal policies that led to Killing Fields. Before the fall of Phnom Penh he was actually active in Mondulkiri/Ratanakiri – the area that was used as a test bed for those policies.
Andrew Spooner’s beginning a dozen comments with “Dan …” when no “Dan” appears in any comment header is getting tiresome – this is not how comments should appear on a respectable website – and I’m not blaming Andrew Spooner.
Quite sobering to see such assessment which are simply absent in these times of “irrational exuberance”. Thank you Ko Ko Thet.
This government is so adept at keeping the appearances backed up fully by false information, wilful deceit and fabrications. Like the defence minister saying the military will support democracy, doesn’t make sense but sounds good.
Not only crony capitalism but the whole military is more entrenched and their hegemonic actions are more open and blatant including the rapes and murders with not a murmur of objection.
Not having any real intellectuals and thinkers among the NLD though is not really a issue as Aung San Suu Kyi (hard to know why you think is visionary whatever it is) is not publicly at least reporting any issues to the people, ask opinions or help from any and with blithe neglect of fellow strugglers who she may take intellectually not quite par.
For example, one would think that it is a vital asset and a great opportunity to talk to the people in border area with well organised lobbying eg. Khin Ohnmar, Ko Bo Kyi, Dr Cynthia, etc. Blaming the Thai or Thein Sein for missing such opportunity is sad loss.
We now got a person who is an institution herself. That is dangerous for Burma as all the decisions thus far has been totally dependent on her and she has not been quite a shining example of either understanding the pressing issues or managing them.
That is especially bad as there are really evil forces at work centering on Burma in particular and she has been going along with those players as one.
It is no secret that all the so -called advanced economies have debts – private, public, institutional- they are never going to honour. Simply to stay afloat thre is a tremendous need for as cheap a labour force as possible, and new consumer markets for the surplus products of variable usefulness.
ASEAN together with China and India is the current target of this scheme and Burma is smack in the centre as Thant Myint-U wrote.
The last WEF is like class master checking the pupils how deligent and industrious they are with Laos, Cambodia and Burma coming out with shining accolade not because of the personality of any particular “Leader” but because they all have been obedient and eager to please the multinational companies and their agents
for their trade routes, relinquishing their sovereignty for roads, rails and ports in a primary school theme of “Connection”.
ILO now puts a ton of lies in this year’s country assessment, that will be used by EU for full opening with fake dignity with call for as much jobs as possible for the time bombs- youths of Burma- by Aung San Suu Kyi will pave way for millions of one dolar day jobs for them arranged by no less than the Cronies with industrial practice clearly seen in Hlaing That Yar today.
The youths will then be trapped for perpetual work/ strike cycles as they are useful for nothing else and owns nothing for their own earning in the future. And they are NOT regarded as “resources” which the government is preserving even though how it translate is open to question.
The escalation of fightings and human right abuses well documented are of totally no concern for the government and their eager investors which is well expected but by Aung San Suu Kyi which is destabilizing.
Above all, the worst aspect of present day Burma with this headlong ill -advised, devastating rush for membership of the decadent world trade community which itself is moriband is TOTAL lack of information, consultation and ASKING for the opinion of the PUBLIC of Burma.
The western wiseguys will in due course find that owning Thein Sein and Aung San Suu Kyi is NOT synonymous with owning Burma, but by then damages will be done on both sides.
Andrew Spooner: Well color me surprised! I take it this wasn’t an eye-witness account, however? You know they could have been saying Mae Kok? Thirtyish miles would be Chiang Saen or thereabouts – any there’s no rolling green on the other side of Highway 1. Also, no part of Burma will appear on the other side of the Mekong (yes I just opened the CNN story).
I got to admit I don’t like how the 3 amigos told their supporter to centered their movement around them. Much to my disgust, Veera (Veerakarn) was there also, he had disgracefully abandon them in the middle of the fight why on earth do they want to keep him around??
However, nice to hear the name Chupong came around, the mainstream media don’t give him much attention.
Trying hard as you might to detract from the topic at hand:
1) The ongoing campaign against the Kachin by this regime reflect the historical failure of the Kachin to grasp the opportunity as the WA did brilliantly and other ethnic groups to a certain extend, opportunities that were orchestrated by Khin Nyunt on behalf of SPDC during it weakest moment.
Presently bemoaning the consequences of that very failure at best express ‘buyer’s regrets’ at worst unacceptable equating ‘a segment of continuing Myanmar shameful legacy’ as the overall plight of the Citizenry.
2) So called racism 2┬║ to ‘diminished economic opportunity’, validate your very original ‘what the use attitude’ that will revamp another cycle of “useless careless policy” within Myanmar this time initiated not by he West but rather by so called caring expats !
The links between Thai-style fascism and 1930s Japanese-style statism/fascism are historically explicit. Prem, Sarit etc fought with the Japanese, after all.
Anti-semitism, wasn’t as prevalent in Italian Fascism as it was German Nazism and Mussolini didn’t pass the anti-semitic Manifesto of Race until he’d been in power for 16years and under pressure from Hitler. Certainly Mussolini was an anti-Semite but Nazism was always a particular brand of fascism. Also PAD supporters have routinely expressed virulent racist and violent anti-Cambodian & anti-Burmese views (plus they spouted some pretty appalling anti-Semitic stuff directed at Robert Amsterdam – I’ve noticed some expats do the same).
No, I didn’t support Margaret Thatcher in way, shape or form and find your segue into that a bit odd. Luckily I moved to Norway at 19 and didn’t return until she’d gone. But I wouldn’t have supported a coup against her either or a neo-fascist mob storming the British parliament in an effort to destroy democracy.
Dan, you might find this odd but I’ve always said Thaksin should be opposed – but just by democratic means. In my view the solution to Thaksin was always more democracy, not less. I also think the casual way that so-called “liberal” anti-Thaksinites align themselves with neo-fascists to be a disgrace.
As for your “no responsible news desk would use these very European references to an Asian situation” – the AHRC are an exclusively Asian organisation and they had no problem calling the PAD fascist.
But there are plenty of other ways to describe the PAD. As I’ve mentioned several times before, why not just use the PAD’s own publicly proclaimed agenda? They’re the ones saying “we want to destroy democracy”, not me. If “fascism” is too complex and dirty a word for the international media why not go with something like this?
““The PAD openly espouse a political programme that seeks to “destroy democracy”.””
It’s not “spin” either – it’s the accurate reporting of the PAD’s own self-proclaimed political position or a reference to an analysis provided by one of the region’s most respected human rights’ organisations. And I can’t see any reason or rationalisation which would prevent the media doing that.
And Andrew, in your linked piece it says this of Golden Dawn, “But its rhetoric is anti-Semitic, anti-Roma and anti-immigrant.”…… In a European context describing a European party these parallels have some direct resonance with regards to the policies of Fascist parties of the mid 20ieth Century and far right groups across Europe today….. The shared history being European in a European context.
The PAD, although they are very sinister, are not anti semitic particularly, nor is immigration a major issue and nor do they advocate the persecution of Roma….. This is Asia…. They are violent, deeply nationalistic and xenophobic. Having said that, no responsible news desk would use these very European references to an Asian situation and an Asian political group on the news pages as you, a European, would wish them to be used…. It’s fairly imperialistic, simplistic, euro centric and absurd for you to expect news organisations to impose European definitions and European historical political pigeon-holing on Asian people and an Asian situation on the news pages…..
Oped and analysis perhaps…. But that is not what you, incredibly naively, seem to be requesting they do….. You want the Spooner spin on the news pages….. Loopy quite frankly.
In 1982 Mrs Thatcher took the BBC to task for referring to British Forces about to engage Argentinian forces in the Falkland Islands (Las Malvinas) as ‘British Forces’….. She would have preferred the BBC to refer to them as ‘Our boys’….. Obviously the BBC did not bow to the pressure since it was absurd and intimidatory…. Nor should they have done
You, in the same way although from avastly more lowly position, lambast the international media for not writing the reports as you wish them to be written and to echo the views you hold regarding the PAD…. I actually largely share your assessment of the aims of the PAD…. But I do not hold with politicians or their lobbyists or cheerleaders strong arming media organisations into spin… You, quite clearly, are an activist blogger and not a journalist (as you have admitted previously)…. So your position makes some kind of cyclical sense in activist terms…. It also makes absolute cyclical sense for news journalists doing a job of work to comepletely ignore you and your ilk…. As they did with pressure from Mrs Thatcher’s conservative party in 1982.
You quite clearly think differently….. As you may remember Mrs Thatcher at that time was in a precarious position. In the 1983 election she won a landslide political victory. She then took on the National Union of Mineworkers and destroyed them largely….. I supported the mineworkers despite Mrs Thatcher’s astronomical electoral success…. I guess you didn’t…. What with you immense reverence for people winning lots of votes in polled elections, whoever the demagogue is who won them ……
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Reconciliation games
Vital, what you see is all there is (WYSIATI), coverage by Nostitz again.
The end, the beginning
Andrew, an additional question.
We are all agreed (at least you and me are, anyway) that any use of racist language etc by the PAD is wrong and must be addressed, the same goes for the use of such language by any group or individual in any country.
Where, however, do you stand on the use of vile homophobic language? Where does this fit in your analysis? A case in point was the barrage of homophobic attacks that were launched against Gen Prem from the PAD stages. Jean-Marie le Pen would have been proud of such a repertoire of thuggish abuse, but where do you stand on this matter?
The end, the beginning
#64 Andrew Spooner
“But there are plenty of other ways to describe the PAD. As I’ve mentioned several times before, why not just use the PAD’s own publicly proclaimed agenda? They’re the ones saying “we want to destroy democracy”, not me. If “fascism” is too complex and dirty a word for the international media why not go with something like this?”
So now you are reneging on your insistence on the words fascist or fascism being used in describing the PAD on the news pages? …. Good……There are indeed plenty of other ways to ‘describe’ the PAD…. And those ways are often used, even if they don’t always get your seal of approval.
“It’s not “spin” either – it’s the accurate reporting of the PAD’s own self-proclaimed political position or a reference to an analysis provided by one of the region’s most respected human rights’ organisations.”
You approve of a human rights organisation?….. They must must be thrilled over at AHRC….. Is it an NGO?…. Are they ‘liberals’?…. Is a ‘Spooner Spring’ in progress?
#67 Greg Lowe (to Andrew Spooner)
“What is also curious is your odd attacks on NGOs, journalists and academics who don’t toe your ideological line. Why do you spend a lot of time doing this and virtually no time trying to hold the government of the day to account?”
The curious reality that launched a million words…… And then another million…. None of which answered the question…..
#66 John Wright
“Andrew Spooner’s beginning a dozen comments with “Dan …” when no “Dan” appears in any comment header is getting tiresome.”
Yes…. It’s a little tiresome, but not particularly offensive. Woof Woof has broad shoulders and can bare the abuse. As you may have realised someone was ‘cuckooing’ IDs on previous threads and then rabbiting away with abandon. This happened to three people…. Who does these kind of things?…. A buffoon quite clearly…. But the only surefire solution is to have been christened with a particularly silly name…. (Yours will take some work John)…. …. Pity New Mandala software doesn’t have a way to prevent this cuckooing of names, but they shouldn’t really have to be obliged to worry about it since it’s a childish abuse of the hospitality of the hard working moderators in the first place….
Thaksin, reform and political crisis
This whole thing will not end until:
1. There are new participants, meaning Thaksin and his proxies are out of the picture, and most important …
2. People start focusing on policies to develop the country again for everyone including the red-shirts.
Reams and reams of postings like Jim Taylor’s without one mention of policy or concrete measures to alleviate poverty or develop the nation, literally tons of verbage devoted to political maneuverings with the hidden assumption that it will be some kind of revolution (reform is a much more humble affair) or sudden change in the system, brought about the saviour Thaksin presumably (and that is what the ruckus in parliament was about last week), through which Thailand will progress to some higher stage in which the people are finally liberated. All I can say is……. look around you at other Asian states, economic development is a gradual process that uses the institutions developed over decades or hundreds of years. Compare Thailand and Burma, Thailand chose to engage economically with the west and to develop its royal institutions and look where it is. Burma chose some socialist pipe-dream back in ’62 and look where it is.
The end, the beginning
And you might add that OWWB keeps replying to posts addressed to Dan.
The end, the beginning
Andrew
“I’ve always said Thaksin should be opposed – but just by democratic means.”
No you haven’t. In fact you’ve spent a great part of the last couple of weeks expressly avoiding explaining why you your focus has shifted from defending the red shirts to first defining Thaksin’s PTP.
“In my view the solution to Thaksin was always more democracy, not less.”
Agreed. The Dems got trounced in the last election. The Thai people clearly support Thaksin/PTP to at least they can’t stand the Dems so much that they will hold their nose and vote PTP.
But I guess the bigger problem is how this “more democracy” is going to appear out of the ether. The PAD certainly aren’t going to magic it up, neither is Thaksin/PTP. There’s no point spending time here going into all of the efforts Dr T took to weaken constitutional checks and balances and curtail the freedom of the press, but can you answer this:
— How does the unity/autonomy bill which has been put together by the power elite in Thailand to support their own vested interests (old amart/landed aristocracy/establishment/military and new amart/new money/industrialists etc) etc help deliver a new, improved democratic system? Thaksin, the army, Suthep, Abhisit etc… all will get off for whatever they hay have done scott free. The dead UDD protesters and their families will never see justice. Surely the holding of power to account should be a key demand for such a defender of democracy as yourself.
“I also think the casual way that so-called “liberal” anti-Thaksinites align themselves with neo-fascists to be a disgrace. ”
Your problem is you paint anyone who is strongly anti-Thaksin as a liberal, PAD-support or Abhisit fanboy. Quite pathetic really. In the real world it is possible for people to have complex views on a situation where they support neither side. It doesn’t have to be “two legs good, four legs bad” you know.
What is also curious is your odd attacks on NGOs, journalists and academics who don’t toe your ideological line. Why do you spend a lot of time doing this and virtually no time trying to hold the government of the day to account?
Jon Wright said: “Andrew Spooner’s beginning a dozen comments with “Dan …” when no “Dan” appears in any comment header is getting tiresome – this is not how comments should appear on a respectable website – and I’m not blaming Andrew Spooner.”
Jon, have you not noticed that AS uses about seven sock puppet identities on this and other threads. In general (90% of the time) these are used so he can discuss his ideas with himself and further his agenda. The use of anonymous IDs is fine when people want to comment on issues which may carry legal implications, of if they just want to remain anonymous. But it is pathetic and intellectually dishonest to do this all the time just to try and make it sound like some people agree with your given line of argument. It does perhaps explain why the poor chap is so confused.
Andrew, it is also notable that for some bizarre reason you dismiss
Dan as an orientalist who focuses on providing an endless stream of Buddhist imagery (that’s one book on temples), perhaps if you hadn’t had your head buried in “A Spartacist’s Guide to Agit-Prop: Junior School Level, Book 1” you may have noticed he has been round the block a bit covering a broad range of issues from the Poll Tax Riots, Post-Saharto Indonesia and all the uprisings there, the Lebanon (I think), Afghanistan (Soviet era), post-KR Cambodia, Asian Tsunami and a bunch of other stuff.
Not that it really matters, but maybe he has a slightly broader perspective/experience than you would like to portray.
As for Thai fascism: “Also PAD supporters have routinely expressed virulent racist and violent anti-Cambodian & anti-Burmese views…” That’s despicable and undefendable. But there’s a lot of nascent racism and nationalism across the political spectrum here, all of which should be attacked.
I was talking about Newin Chidchob with a red shirt taxi driver. His response: “Newin mai chai khon Thai, khao pen khon khmen.” So anti-Cambodian feeling isn’t the exclusive preserve of the PAD. Sames goes for the Burmese, ethnic minorities and southerners.
What would be interesting would be to see how nationalism and racism are used and manipulated by most political parties and movements here. But clearly you wouldn’t be doing that as it doesn’t fit with your agenda.
Reconciliation games
Thanks for the comprehensive account and contextualization and especially for the account of the (light) blue shirts.
Reconciliation games
Great detail, great on-the-ground reporting and photos, without Nick, we would all be in a very hazy fog……….
Surprise? A CPP victory
So falling out with or running away from Pol Pot is supposed to get your slate wiped clean? Note that returning to the country holding Vietnam’s coat tails does NOT constitute “fighting against Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge” – he was fine holding Phnom Penh and letting the Vietnamese conscripts fight the KR.
Hun Sen is definitely a monster, let’s not forget it. He has blood on his hands going back to the inception of the brutal policies that led to Killing Fields. Before the fall of Phnom Penh he was actually active in Mondulkiri/Ratanakiri – the area that was used as a test bed for those policies.
The end, the beginning
Andrew Spooner’s beginning a dozen comments with “Dan …” when no “Dan” appears in any comment header is getting tiresome – this is not how comments should appear on a respectable website – and I’m not blaming Andrew Spooner.
Getting real about Myanmar’s development
Quite sobering to see such assessment which are simply absent in these times of “irrational exuberance”. Thank you Ko Ko Thet.
This government is so adept at keeping the appearances backed up fully by false information, wilful deceit and fabrications. Like the defence minister saying the military will support democracy, doesn’t make sense but sounds good.
Not only crony capitalism but the whole military is more entrenched and their hegemonic actions are more open and blatant including the rapes and murders with not a murmur of objection.
Not having any real intellectuals and thinkers among the NLD though is not really a issue as Aung San Suu Kyi (hard to know why you think is visionary whatever it is) is not publicly at least reporting any issues to the people, ask opinions or help from any and with blithe neglect of fellow strugglers who she may take intellectually not quite par.
For example, one would think that it is a vital asset and a great opportunity to talk to the people in border area with well organised lobbying eg. Khin Ohnmar, Ko Bo Kyi, Dr Cynthia, etc. Blaming the Thai or Thein Sein for missing such opportunity is sad loss.
We now got a person who is an institution herself. That is dangerous for Burma as all the decisions thus far has been totally dependent on her and she has not been quite a shining example of either understanding the pressing issues or managing them.
That is especially bad as there are really evil forces at work centering on Burma in particular and she has been going along with those players as one.
It is no secret that all the so -called advanced economies have debts – private, public, institutional- they are never going to honour. Simply to stay afloat thre is a tremendous need for as cheap a labour force as possible, and new consumer markets for the surplus products of variable usefulness.
ASEAN together with China and India is the current target of this scheme and Burma is smack in the centre as Thant Myint-U wrote.
The last WEF is like class master checking the pupils how deligent and industrious they are with Laos, Cambodia and Burma coming out with shining accolade not because of the personality of any particular “Leader” but because they all have been obedient and eager to please the multinational companies and their agents
for their trade routes, relinquishing their sovereignty for roads, rails and ports in a primary school theme of “Connection”.
ILO now puts a ton of lies in this year’s country assessment, that will be used by EU for full opening with fake dignity with call for as much jobs as possible for the time bombs- youths of Burma- by Aung San Suu Kyi will pave way for millions of one dolar day jobs for them arranged by no less than the Cronies with industrial practice clearly seen in Hlaing That Yar today.
The youths will then be trapped for perpetual work/ strike cycles as they are useful for nothing else and owns nothing for their own earning in the future. And they are NOT regarded as “resources” which the government is preserving even though how it translate is open to question.
The escalation of fightings and human right abuses well documented are of totally no concern for the government and their eager investors which is well expected but by Aung San Suu Kyi which is destabilizing.
Above all, the worst aspect of present day Burma with this headlong ill -advised, devastating rush for membership of the decadent world trade community which itself is moriband is TOTAL lack of information, consultation and ASKING for the opinion of the PUBLIC of Burma.
The western wiseguys will in due course find that owning Thein Sein and Aung San Suu Kyi is NOT synonymous with owning Burma, but by then damages will be done on both sides.
Kuomintang in northern Thailand
Andrew Spooner: Well color me surprised! I take it this wasn’t an eye-witness account, however? You know they could have been saying Mae Kok? Thirtyish miles would be Chiang Saen or thereabouts – any there’s no rolling green on the other side of Highway 1. Also, no part of Burma will appear on the other side of the Mekong (yes I just opened the CNN story).
Thaksin, reform and political crisis
I got to admit I don’t like how the 3 amigos told their supporter to centered their movement around them. Much to my disgust, Veera (Veerakarn) was there also, he had disgracefully abandon them in the middle of the fight why on earth do they want to keep him around??
However, nice to hear the name Chupong came around, the mainstream media don’t give him much attention.
Thant Myint-U on Yangon
@#22
Trying hard as you might to detract from the topic at hand:
1) The ongoing campaign against the Kachin by this regime reflect the historical failure of the Kachin to grasp the opportunity as the WA did brilliantly and other ethnic groups to a certain extend, opportunities that were orchestrated by Khin Nyunt on behalf of SPDC during it weakest moment.
Presently bemoaning the consequences of that very failure at best express ‘buyer’s regrets’ at worst unacceptable equating ‘a segment of continuing Myanmar shameful legacy’ as the overall plight of the Citizenry.
2) So called racism 2┬║ to ‘diminished economic opportunity’, validate your very original ‘what the use attitude’ that will revamp another cycle of “useless careless policy” within Myanmar this time initiated not by he West but rather by so called caring expats !
Thant Myint-U on Yangon
“….crucial that local communities benefited from preservation efforts.”
This is similar to Aung San Suu Kyi saying she will change the Nargis constitution.
File it under Father Christmas and Fairy Godmother.
The end, the beginning
It’s a shame that this is important, because it is really boring.
The end, the beginning
Dan
The links between Thai-style fascism and 1930s Japanese-style statism/fascism are historically explicit. Prem, Sarit etc fought with the Japanese, after all.
Anti-semitism, wasn’t as prevalent in Italian Fascism as it was German Nazism and Mussolini didn’t pass the anti-semitic Manifesto of Race until he’d been in power for 16years and under pressure from Hitler. Certainly Mussolini was an anti-Semite but Nazism was always a particular brand of fascism. Also PAD supporters have routinely expressed virulent racist and violent anti-Cambodian & anti-Burmese views (plus they spouted some pretty appalling anti-Semitic stuff directed at Robert Amsterdam – I’ve noticed some expats do the same).
No, I didn’t support Margaret Thatcher in way, shape or form and find your segue into that a bit odd. Luckily I moved to Norway at 19 and didn’t return until she’d gone. But I wouldn’t have supported a coup against her either or a neo-fascist mob storming the British parliament in an effort to destroy democracy.
Dan, you might find this odd but I’ve always said Thaksin should be opposed – but just by democratic means. In my view the solution to Thaksin was always more democracy, not less. I also think the casual way that so-called “liberal” anti-Thaksinites align themselves with neo-fascists to be a disgrace.
As for your “no responsible news desk would use these very European references to an Asian situation” – the AHRC are an exclusively Asian organisation and they had no problem calling the PAD fascist.
But there are plenty of other ways to describe the PAD. As I’ve mentioned several times before, why not just use the PAD’s own publicly proclaimed agenda? They’re the ones saying “we want to destroy democracy”, not me. If “fascism” is too complex and dirty a word for the international media why not go with something like this?
““The PAD openly espouse a political programme that seeks to “destroy democracy”.””
It’s not “spin” either – it’s the accurate reporting of the PAD’s own self-proclaimed political position or a reference to an analysis provided by one of the region’s most respected human rights’ organisations. And I can’t see any reason or rationalisation which would prevent the media doing that.
The end, the beginning
And Andrew, in your linked piece it says this of Golden Dawn, “But its rhetoric is anti-Semitic, anti-Roma and anti-immigrant.”…… In a European context describing a European party these parallels have some direct resonance with regards to the policies of Fascist parties of the mid 20ieth Century and far right groups across Europe today….. The shared history being European in a European context.
The PAD, although they are very sinister, are not anti semitic particularly, nor is immigration a major issue and nor do they advocate the persecution of Roma….. This is Asia…. They are violent, deeply nationalistic and xenophobic. Having said that, no responsible news desk would use these very European references to an Asian situation and an Asian political group on the news pages as you, a European, would wish them to be used…. It’s fairly imperialistic, simplistic, euro centric and absurd for you to expect news organisations to impose European definitions and European historical political pigeon-holing on Asian people and an Asian situation on the news pages…..
Oped and analysis perhaps…. But that is not what you, incredibly naively, seem to be requesting they do….. You want the Spooner spin on the news pages….. Loopy quite frankly.
The end, the beginning
#61 Andrew Spooner
“accurately inform the public ”
In 1982 Mrs Thatcher took the BBC to task for referring to British Forces about to engage Argentinian forces in the Falkland Islands (Las Malvinas) as ‘British Forces’….. She would have preferred the BBC to refer to them as ‘Our boys’….. Obviously the BBC did not bow to the pressure since it was absurd and intimidatory…. Nor should they have done
You, in the same way although from avastly more lowly position, lambast the international media for not writing the reports as you wish them to be written and to echo the views you hold regarding the PAD…. I actually largely share your assessment of the aims of the PAD…. But I do not hold with politicians or their lobbyists or cheerleaders strong arming media organisations into spin… You, quite clearly, are an activist blogger and not a journalist (as you have admitted previously)…. So your position makes some kind of cyclical sense in activist terms…. It also makes absolute cyclical sense for news journalists doing a job of work to comepletely ignore you and your ilk…. As they did with pressure from Mrs Thatcher’s conservative party in 1982.
You quite clearly think differently….. As you may remember Mrs Thatcher at that time was in a precarious position. In the 1983 election she won a landslide political victory. She then took on the National Union of Mineworkers and destroyed them largely….. I supported the mineworkers despite Mrs Thatcher’s astronomical electoral success…. I guess you didn’t…. What with you immense reverence for people winning lots of votes in polled elections, whoever the demagogue is who won them ……
Kuomintang in northern Thailand
Jon Wright
Yep, from the top of the hill by temple you can see it on a clear day. About 30ishmiles away in a straight line.
Easy.