The democrat MPs did it again yesterday (31 May) for the second day in a row.
After trying to remove House Speaker Somsak’s chair earlier, these MP’s again focused their attacks on Somsak by throwing books and paper documents at him to the point that police had to escort him out.
Meanwhile, Chirayu Huangsap, a first-time Pheu Thai MP and former tv broadcaster, was grabbed in the neck and strangled by democrat MP Thanee Theuksuban (familiar family name?) after Chirayu tried to record the book-throwing incident with his hand-phone.
Have you confused the threads. It was the one on LM which you were using to attack AI/HRW in order to try and paint PTP in a favourable light. You never answered why you thought Chiranuch’s sentencing the other day was “lenient” and why you asked if PTP should be praised for such leniency, when HRW, Google and other people concerned with free speech were condemning the sentence and the chilling precedent which it set.
Again why the personal attack on Sunai/HRW? You were already shown in the other thread to have selectively quoted from the Wikileaks cables in a fairly crude attempt to smear these NGOs for your propaganda purposes. In the above context, does Sunai/HRW really play a catalytic or leading role in the PAD/Dem alliance?
Remember the Feb 2012 statement from 2012 when HRW said pre-trial detention for red shirts on LM charges was being used as a form of punishment. That release compared the case of yellow shirt leader Sondhi Lim who was charged and bailed on the same day. HRW pointed out the double standards here. An odd thing to do for a group which you allege are pro-PAD stooges, no?
Why are you trying to shift focus from key actors such as the Democrats/PAD and the call by some Dems to support the PAD. — a move which demands and deserves staunch criticism — on to NGOs? Or how about discussing how the return of the 111 banned politicians will likely affect the current situation, which is what the thread is about?
I can’t deny that I found Nick’s early input about the red shirts partisan but I’ve always appreciated his eye level view of things. And over the years I’ve been impressed by his increasingly professional journalistic stance.
He’s not an academic. He’s not an analyst. He’s not a PR man.
Nick is a GREAT photo reporter and it will be our loss should he actually relocate to Germany.
Yangon certainly remains the real political and economic hub so whoever controls Yangon will control the country. Make no mistake.
Naypyidaw, even with its secret underground tunnels, will ultimately be a bunker and foxhole at best as the generals’ infamous last stand. Let’s turn them into a grand incinerator.
I had an interesting but brief twitter exchange with Bangkok Pundit today.
I asked him “do you think we’re seeing the old 2006-style anti-Thaksin alliance of PAD/Dems and politicised human rights NGOs re-emerging?”
He replied
“No. PAD crowd yesterday was 3k ( The Nation). In 06, they got 100K+. Back then, intellectual opinion was very anti-TS. Nowadays, there is great diversity in intellectual and NGO opinion & would estimate running 50/50”
This is a big improvement since the days when both HRW and Amnesty were openly/secretly supporting the 2006 coup and/or the PAD.
I hope this time that HRW’s Sunai Phasuk manages to keep his “anti-Thaksin activism” in check and just report on events in an impartial fashion without skewing facts, figures or maintaining secret support for the army.
However, the recent and very curious incident of Phasuk/HRW and the Democrat Party simultaneously releasing statements bemoaning the fact the Pheu Thai government had actually begun to investigate the army for May 2012 was certainly eyebrow raising and didn’t go unnoticed.
But, will the old alliance re-emerge? In my view, some, like Phsauk, are likely to remain “active”. Others may be having second thoughts as they see the actions of the Dems in parliament and the neo-fascist rabble of the PAD re-emerge onto Bangkok’s streets.
One result of the Dem/PAD’s recent actions could be to push the broad coalition of the Red Shirts, progressives and Pheu Thai back together as they realise the reactionary forces arrayed against them.
Greg @ 101: Thanks, but you appear to have missed the question, which was: which human rights NGOs have expressed concern regarding Surachai Danwattananusorn’s sentencing? I am interested in sentencing a la the comments by HRW, AI and others on Chiranuch.
Thanks anonymouse for your several comments. I agree that it appears that Surachai’s sentencing (and his case in general) has been downplayed or overlooked by media, with remarkably little attention by the foreign media.
Surachai seems to have received the record LM sentence to date and he is sick and old (a decade older than Amphon), and Somyot’s case is due for a verdict shortly. Will his verdict garner media attention in the way that Chiranuch’s case has?
Amusing cliche question (#13) but only repeats Thaksin’s b/s lament – the others too are corrupt. I won’t even ask Mr. Damage to substantiate because he couldn’t.
But thanks for the compliment ‘evangelical’. I like it.
Vichai N, hmm, if you jailed all the corrupt politicians then who would be left? Of course there would be new faces coming forth, inspired, eloquent and enthusiastic to have their turn to rape and pillage the national treasury.
But…What changes? What progress is achieved? What difference does it make? Being evangelical about politics generally is as useful as choosing between a Honda or Toyota, same outcome with a different fascia.
The bigger the government and bureaucracy then the more people that are involved in corruption and theft, if for no other reason that is a rational for minimal government and public service.
Marteau, head over to Thai Visa, if not already a regular, anti-red, pro establishment rants are actively encouraged, political correctness is enforced…
Nick has a done a great job of reporting in a difficult atmosphere where it is nice to actually see unmandated viewpoints.
I am opinionated and find ideologies constricting albeit convenient for shallow thinkers, but am willing to be proven wrong so enjoy reading differing perspectives, objectivity in the MSM worldwide sadly seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs.
interesting that Amnesty made no comment regarding imprisonment of Da Torpedo either. many feel zawacki’s comments at the time actually showed support for imprisonment.
interesting that both Amnesty and HRW ramped up their anti-LM campaign when govt changed to PT even tho’ analysts of calibre of Streckfuss state actual prosecutions were lower than during Dem Party time.
“maybe thought of their maids and pool cleaners actually having a say in who runs the country is just too terrifying for them?”
I am an expat these days…. I have neither a maid, nor a pool nor a person to clean it…. Am I too, complicit in this terrible conspiracy with HRW and AI to deny “democracy & social justice” to the downtrodden people in Thailand….. All in order that I can imperialistically put petrol in my amart-like moped?
All good points. Perhaps I should have made more explicit the fact that the people I spoke to at HRW/AI/ICJ [this was about four years back] said they could not confirm outright but had no personal knowledge of any other country which had a law where political parties could be dissolved and the entire executive banned, due to the actions of a single member of the executive. They said the criminal code has all the legal legislature necessary to deal with these criminal acts. A special laws was neither necessary nor productive.
Please do pull me up if I again descend into cutlery-induced invective.
Nick’s reporting and his perspective of Thailand politics and its people will be missed. His street level reporting of various events has been greatly appreciated.
I can remember many years ago, before he achieved his current fame, his postings on a Thailand forum about his life in a Bangkok slum and his insights into that life were very interesting. It was too bad that his attitude that only he knew anything about it and his intolerance of any other viewpoint and his disagreement with the owner about that intolerance caused to him withdraw. At least now, Nick has learned to moderate that fanaticism, though he does have a few moments at times.
What I have learned about Nick’s reporting is he tends to leave out certain pertinent aspects when they become a bit uncomfortable with his personal viewpoint. He always has a ready answer that to sidestep that when confronted, and I guess that is ok, but it needs to be kept in mind when reading his accounts.
I do hope you will still publish your book that you say will include what you have found out about the armed elements within the UDD protests in 2010. I have little doubt that it will be no-holds regardless of your findings. Your recent postings have made it clear that the armed element existed and you disagree with the reason for its deployment and actions.
Maybe it is better that is done when you don’t live here anymore.
Here’s another statement from HRW issued after Ah Gong’s sentencing.
(New York) – A Thai court’s sentencing of a 61-year-old man to 20 years in prison for sending four text messages illustrates the misuse by successive Thai governments of laws intended to protect the monarchy, Human Rights Watch said today. Thailand’s lese majeste laws should be amended to prevent unnecessary restrictions on freedom of expression.
On November 23, 2011, a Bangkok criminal court sentenced Ampon Tangnoppakul, 61, to 20 years in prison for sending four SMS messages in 2010 that were considered offensive to the Queen and the institution of the monarchy. The messages were sent to a secretary of Abhisit Vejjajiva, who was then the prime minister. Ampon was arrested by Crime Suppression Division police on August 3, 2010, after a complaint was made by Somkiat Krongwattanasuk, the secretary who received the message.
“The severity of penalties being meted out for lese majeste offenses in Thailand is shocking,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “The new government seems to be responding to questions about its loyalty to the monarchy by filing countless lese majeste charges.”
It goes on to give a brief history of recent LM charges and highlights the crackdown on freedom of expression under Abhisit’s administration.
From Amnesty International’s press release on November 23, 2011:
“This sentence clearly infringes on freedom of expression,” said Benjamin Zawacki, Amnesty International’s Thailand researcher. “Amphon is a political prisoner.”
Amnesty on Thammasat Uni’s initial ban on Nitirat meetings:
Thammasat University’s decision to ban from its campus an academic group working on reform of the lèse majesté law constitutes a violation of the human rights principle of academic freedom and should be revoked, Amnesty International said today.
If you scroll down this page, you’ll see AI statements demanding the release of Chiranuch, the need to respect human rights, a call for the military to “stop the use of reckless violence” against anti-government protesters, etc. http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/thailand?page=1
That the Democrats are allied, once again, with the neo-fascists in the PAD, is no great surprise. That they are encouraging a violent storming of parliament as Rangsima did on TV yesterday, reveals themselves as unfit for any kind of office.
Thankfully, the Thai electorate have already deduced how unfit the Dems are and reduced, in the last election, the number of MPs they hold. The Dems’ recent behaviour is also likely to reduce their electoral power further in any coming election.
And here is the main reason why the Dems are never dissolved – they are not a threat to the “dual state”. In fact they are supporters and beneficiaries of it and are unlikely to have the kind of popular mandate that actually creates a threat to the “amart.”
I’ve also been following Korn’s tweets as he claims that the act that led to the PAD protests will financially benefit Thaksin and Yingluck.
What Korn fails to state is that the Thai legislative process is bicameral. Surely any act has to go before the Senate for approval, amendment or rejection? So why the Dems alliance with the neo-fascists? Anyone would think they share the same anti-democratic interests.
The “Democrat” Party Thailand is disgraceful in this attack on the Speaker in the Parliament which was obviously coordinated with the PAD/Yellow threats and attacks going on simultaneously outside the Parliament. Clearly their hope is to create enough “illusion of chaos” to nudge the Thai military into a coup and once again take power via the military route, all, of course with complete backing from Thailand’s assorted “royals” and their comical frontmen, Sondhi and Chamlong.
And what about the millions of Thai citizens who voted in the present Parliament and government in the recent election? In the view of the “Democrat” Party Thailand, since they have, can and never will actually win a nationwide election, elections and the supposed will of the voters have no meaning and are of no consequence. What counts is the one vote at the top of the pyramid and the state-of-mind of the person who has the power and position to give the green-light for the next coup.
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The end, the beginning
The democrat MPs did it again yesterday (31 May) for the second day in a row.
After trying to remove House Speaker Somsak’s chair earlier, these MP’s again focused their attacks on Somsak by throwing books and paper documents at him to the point that police had to escort him out.
Meanwhile, Chirayu Huangsap, a first-time Pheu Thai MP and former tv broadcaster, was grabbed in the neck and strangled by democrat MP Thanee Theuksuban (familiar family name?) after Chirayu tried to record the book-throwing incident with his hand-phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjsErJye804
Question now is why these people who call themselves democrats are so desperate at this stage ? What will happen today on the third day?
The end, the beginning
Andrew,
Have you confused the threads. It was the one on LM which you were using to attack AI/HRW in order to try and paint PTP in a favourable light. You never answered why you thought Chiranuch’s sentencing the other day was “lenient” and why you asked if PTP should be praised for such leniency, when HRW, Google and other people concerned with free speech were condemning the sentence and the chilling precedent which it set.
Again why the personal attack on Sunai/HRW? You were already shown in the other thread to have selectively quoted from the Wikileaks cables in a fairly crude attempt to smear these NGOs for your propaganda purposes. In the above context, does Sunai/HRW really play a catalytic or leading role in the PAD/Dem alliance?
Remember the Feb 2012 statement from 2012 when HRW said pre-trial detention for red shirts on LM charges was being used as a form of punishment. That release compared the case of yellow shirt leader Sondhi Lim who was charged and bailed on the same day. HRW pointed out the double standards here. An odd thing to do for a group which you allege are pro-PAD stooges, no?
Why are you trying to shift focus from key actors such as the Democrats/PAD and the call by some Dems to support the PAD. — a move which demands and deserves staunch criticism — on to NGOs? Or how about discussing how the return of the 111 banned politicians will likely affect the current situation, which is what the thread is about?
Nick Nostitz interviewed by Matichon
I can’t deny that I found Nick’s early input about the red shirts partisan but I’ve always appreciated his eye level view of things. And over the years I’ve been impressed by his increasingly professional journalistic stance.
He’s not an academic. He’s not an analyst. He’s not a PR man.
Nick is a GREAT photo reporter and it will be our loss should he actually relocate to Germany.
Alles Gute fuer Dich und die Familie,
Max
Thant Myint-U on Yangon
Yangon certainly remains the real political and economic hub so whoever controls Yangon will control the country. Make no mistake.
Naypyidaw, even with its secret underground tunnels, will ultimately be a bunker and foxhole at best as the generals’ infamous last stand. Let’s turn them into a grand incinerator.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
Chut Wutty: Tragic casualty of Cambodia’s dirty war to save forests
Fantastic post, thank you.
Nick Nostitz interviewed by Matichon
I very much enjoyed living vicariously through Nick’s posts here. I hope he continues to post!
The end, the beginning
I had an interesting but brief twitter exchange with Bangkok Pundit today.
I asked him “do you think we’re seeing the old 2006-style anti-Thaksin alliance of PAD/Dems and politicised human rights NGOs re-emerging?”
He replied
“No. PAD crowd yesterday was 3k ( The Nation). In 06, they got 100K+. Back then, intellectual opinion was very anti-TS. Nowadays, there is great diversity in intellectual and NGO opinion & would estimate running 50/50”
This is a big improvement since the days when both HRW and Amnesty were openly/secretly supporting the 2006 coup and/or the PAD.
I hope this time that HRW’s Sunai Phasuk manages to keep his “anti-Thaksin activism” in check and just report on events in an impartial fashion without skewing facts, figures or maintaining secret support for the army.
However, the recent and very curious incident of Phasuk/HRW and the Democrat Party simultaneously releasing statements bemoaning the fact the Pheu Thai government had actually begun to investigate the army for May 2012 was certainly eyebrow raising and didn’t go unnoticed.
But, will the old alliance re-emerge? In my view, some, like Phsauk, are likely to remain “active”. Others may be having second thoughts as they see the actions of the Dems in parliament and the neo-fascist rabble of the PAD re-emerge onto Bangkok’s streets.
One result of the Dem/PAD’s recent actions could be to push the broad coalition of the Red Shirts, progressives and Pheu Thai back together as they realise the reactionary forces arrayed against them.
Human rights and lese majeste
Greg @ 101: Thanks, but you appear to have missed the question, which was: which human rights NGOs have expressed concern regarding Surachai Danwattananusorn’s sentencing? I am interested in sentencing a la the comments by HRW, AI and others on Chiranuch.
Thanks anonymouse for your several comments. I agree that it appears that Surachai’s sentencing (and his case in general) has been downplayed or overlooked by media, with remarkably little attention by the foreign media.
Surachai seems to have received the record LM sentence to date and he is sick and old (a decade older than Amphon), and Somyot’s case is due for a verdict shortly. Will his verdict garner media attention in the way that Chiranuch’s case has?
Nick Nostitz interviewed by Matichon
“Srithanonchai”, “Greg Lowe”:
“If you want to tease “Nick,” call him by his full name: Nikolus Moritz Georg Karl Freiherr von Nostitz! Old German nobility…”
… and i would have to say that my name is Nikolaus (!), not Nikolus… 😉
The end, the beginning
Amusing cliche question (#13) but only repeats Thaksin’s b/s lament – the others too are corrupt. I won’t even ask Mr. Damage to substantiate because he couldn’t.
But thanks for the compliment ‘evangelical’. I like it.
The end, the beginning
Vichai N, hmm, if you jailed all the corrupt politicians then who would be left? Of course there would be new faces coming forth, inspired, eloquent and enthusiastic to have their turn to rape and pillage the national treasury.
But…What changes? What progress is achieved? What difference does it make? Being evangelical about politics generally is as useful as choosing between a Honda or Toyota, same outcome with a different fascia.
The bigger the government and bureaucracy then the more people that are involved in corruption and theft, if for no other reason that is a rational for minimal government and public service.
Nick Nostitz interviewed by Matichon
Marteau, head over to Thai Visa, if not already a regular, anti-red, pro establishment rants are actively encouraged, political correctness is enforced…
Nick has a done a great job of reporting in a difficult atmosphere where it is nice to actually see unmandated viewpoints.
I am opinionated and find ideologies constricting albeit convenient for shallow thinkers, but am willing to be proven wrong so enjoy reading differing perspectives, objectivity in the MSM worldwide sadly seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs.
Human rights and lese majeste
ralph k
interesting that Amnesty made no comment regarding imprisonment of Da Torpedo either. many feel zawacki’s comments at the time actually showed support for imprisonment.
interesting that both Amnesty and HRW ramped up their anti-LM campaign when govt changed to PT even tho’ analysts of calibre of Streckfuss state actual prosecutions were lower than during Dem Party time.
Human rights and lese majeste
# 102 Andew Spooner
“maybe thought of their maids and pool cleaners actually having a say in who runs the country is just too terrifying for them?”
I am an expat these days…. I have neither a maid, nor a pool nor a person to clean it…. Am I too, complicit in this terrible conspiracy with HRW and AI to deny “democracy & social justice” to the downtrodden people in Thailand….. All in order that I can imperialistically put petrol in my amart-like moped?
The end, the beginning
John
All good points. Perhaps I should have made more explicit the fact that the people I spoke to at HRW/AI/ICJ [this was about four years back] said they could not confirm outright but had no personal knowledge of any other country which had a law where political parties could be dissolved and the entire executive banned, due to the actions of a single member of the executive. They said the criminal code has all the legal legislature necessary to deal with these criminal acts. A special laws was neither necessary nor productive.
Please do pull me up if I again descend into cutlery-induced invective.
Human rights and lese majeste
ralph k
can;t find any comment from HRW or AI about recent prison sentence of surachai.
some stuff from feb though. maybe they missed verdict?
Nick Nostitz interviewed by Matichon
Nick’s reporting and his perspective of Thailand politics and its people will be missed. His street level reporting of various events has been greatly appreciated.
I can remember many years ago, before he achieved his current fame, his postings on a Thailand forum about his life in a Bangkok slum and his insights into that life were very interesting. It was too bad that his attitude that only he knew anything about it and his intolerance of any other viewpoint and his disagreement with the owner about that intolerance caused to him withdraw. At least now, Nick has learned to moderate that fanaticism, though he does have a few moments at times.
What I have learned about Nick’s reporting is he tends to leave out certain pertinent aspects when they become a bit uncomfortable with his personal viewpoint. He always has a ready answer that to sidestep that when confronted, and I guess that is ok, but it needs to be kept in mind when reading his accounts.
I do hope you will still publish your book that you say will include what you have found out about the armed elements within the UDD protests in 2010. I have little doubt that it will be no-holds regardless of your findings. Your recent postings have made it clear that the armed element existed and you disagree with the reason for its deployment and actions.
Maybe it is better that is done when you don’t live here anymore.
So, Nick, good luck and you will be missed.
Human rights and lese majeste
Here’s another statement from HRW issued after Ah Gong’s sentencing.
(New York) – A Thai court’s sentencing of a 61-year-old man to 20 years in prison for sending four text messages illustrates the misuse by successive Thai governments of laws intended to protect the monarchy, Human Rights Watch said today. Thailand’s lese majeste laws should be amended to prevent unnecessary restrictions on freedom of expression.
On November 23, 2011, a Bangkok criminal court sentenced Ampon Tangnoppakul, 61, to 20 years in prison for sending four SMS messages in 2010 that were considered offensive to the Queen and the institution of the monarchy. The messages were sent to a secretary of Abhisit Vejjajiva, who was then the prime minister. Ampon was arrested by Crime Suppression Division police on August 3, 2010, after a complaint was made by Somkiat Krongwattanasuk, the secretary who received the message.
“The severity of penalties being meted out for lese majeste offenses in Thailand is shocking,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “The new government seems to be responding to questions about its loyalty to the monarchy by filing countless lese majeste charges.”
It goes on to give a brief history of recent LM charges and highlights the crackdown on freedom of expression under Abhisit’s administration.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/12/02/thailand-end-harsh-punishments-lese-majeste-offenses
From Amnesty International’s press release on November 23, 2011:
“This sentence clearly infringes on freedom of expression,” said Benjamin Zawacki, Amnesty International’s Thailand researcher. “Amphon is a political prisoner.”
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/thailand-%E2%80%98repressive%E2%80%99-20-year-sentence-text-message2011-11-23
Amnesty on Thammasat Uni’s initial ban on Nitirat meetings:
Thammasat University’s decision to ban from its campus an academic group working on reform of the lèse majesté law constitutes a violation of the human rights principle of academic freedom and should be revoked, Amnesty International said today.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA39/001/2012/en/87c9f233-dfd9-410d-8ade-d2a56456cde9/asa390012012en.html
If you scroll down this page, you’ll see AI statements demanding the release of Chiranuch, the need to respect human rights, a call for the military to “stop the use of reckless violence” against anti-government protesters, etc. http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/thailand?page=1
Not quite the silence Andrew has claimed.
The end, the beginning
That the Democrats are allied, once again, with the neo-fascists in the PAD, is no great surprise. That they are encouraging a violent storming of parliament as Rangsima did on TV yesterday, reveals themselves as unfit for any kind of office.
Thankfully, the Thai electorate have already deduced how unfit the Dems are and reduced, in the last election, the number of MPs they hold. The Dems’ recent behaviour is also likely to reduce their electoral power further in any coming election.
And here is the main reason why the Dems are never dissolved – they are not a threat to the “dual state”. In fact they are supporters and beneficiaries of it and are unlikely to have the kind of popular mandate that actually creates a threat to the “amart.”
I’ve also been following Korn’s tweets as he claims that the act that led to the PAD protests will financially benefit Thaksin and Yingluck.
What Korn fails to state is that the Thai legislative process is bicameral. Surely any act has to go before the Senate for approval, amendment or rejection? So why the Dems alliance with the neo-fascists? Anyone would think they share the same anti-democratic interests.
The end, the beginning
The “Democrat” Party Thailand is disgraceful in this attack on the Speaker in the Parliament which was obviously coordinated with the PAD/Yellow threats and attacks going on simultaneously outside the Parliament. Clearly their hope is to create enough “illusion of chaos” to nudge the Thai military into a coup and once again take power via the military route, all, of course with complete backing from Thailand’s assorted “royals” and their comical frontmen, Sondhi and Chamlong.
And what about the millions of Thai citizens who voted in the present Parliament and government in the recent election? In the view of the “Democrat” Party Thailand, since they have, can and never will actually win a nationwide election, elections and the supposed will of the voters have no meaning and are of no consequence. What counts is the one vote at the top of the pyramid and the state-of-mind of the person who has the power and position to give the green-light for the next coup.