Comments

  1. anonymouse says:

    ralph k

    not sure if HRW or AI have done any press release on Surachai. Bangkok’s media have gone missing on his case as well.

    HRW have distorted numbers on War on Drugs for a long time and failed to mention the royal and wider elite support for that. some sources suggest the war on drugs was initially ordered by King himself. This may explain why no proper investigation on war on drugs took place when Thaksin was removed from power and army, Dems, had power to investigate.

    HRW/AI have done some good work in South but have failed to mention Thai Queen’s role there. in 2005 she called for buddhists to arm themselves against local Muslims, & tried to implement plan to force Muslims off their lands. her action greatly inflamed the situation and upset local people.

    then we could get to who directly benefits from war in South. all soldiers there are on full, 24-7, overtime. & presence of an armed conflict means that army retain a relevance with senior officers taking their regular cut on arms procurement and like. The fake bomb detectors were obvious example of this with many of these bogus devices being employed in South & with senior officers taking a nice hefty slice of proceeds.

    these documented widely known aspects rarely get mentioned as some of it might be LM and rest of it don’t fit in with agenda of committed anti-Thaksin activists such as HRW’s Sunai Phasuk and Amnesty’s pro-royalist, Ben Zawacki. Other expats, whose privileged existence is completely dependent on lack of democracy & social justice in Thailand, eagerly join in with pushing this line as it fits their self-interest. maybe thought of their maids and pool cleaners actually having a say in who runs the country is just too terrifying for them?

  2. John Smith says:

    It’s ridiculous that every party but one was dissolved as all parties buy votes and engage in other nefarious activities

    4 out of the 6 political parties represented in Parliament in 2008 were banned. Sanoh’s Phracharaj and it’s one MP seat was not.

    they did all say that had themselves never heard of such a law being used elsewhere.

    I think many countries have dissolution laws for various transgressions. Korea comes to mind first.

    From a quick Google check the following quote from the Korean Constitution comes up:
    If purposes and acts of a political party go against the democratic basic order, the government can bring the case to the Constitutional Court, and the party is dissolved by the decision of the Constitutional Court.”

    I believe the Unified Progressive Party is being investigated right now with dissolution expected due to rigging of primary elections.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.

    I don’t think Thailand is unique in this approach, though saying so certainly sounds good and appeals to a certain political leaning.

    It’s daft and infantile. I’m sure that you would agree John

    I would not use “daft and infantile” to describe Article 237 or Article 66 of the Political Party Act, but instead would characterize as them both as too open for abuse and an overreaction and an incorrect solution to an ongoing, well acknowledged problem with Thai political parties and their leadership. But maybe that is because I try to keep the hyperbole and demagoguery to a minimum when discussing Thai politics.

    You were said party dissolution and bannings was a product of the 2006 coup and I was showing that even before the 2007 constitution is was being used as political tool open to abuse. Who knows what would have happened if the Constitutional Court had had a chance to rule on the EC recommendations made 3 months before the coup for dissolution of both the TRT and Democratic Party for their behavior in the 2006 election?

    Certainly the fact that a TRT deputy leader paid somebody to change the EC’s database could be considered “contrary to law or public order or good morals” as defined in the Political Party Act. I think this goes a bit beyond paying people to run (or not) in an election.

    There is actually a theory that strict political party law such a in Thailand and Korea are counterproductive as they tend to force the behavior underground and make criminals out of politicians just trying to raise money or win elections in what is often a normal manner.

    But my central point remains the saying things like “daft and infantile”, “nowhere else in the world has party dissolutions”, “dissolutions are a product of the 2006 coup” are not productive, intelligent discussion or debate. You are engaging in what might be referred to as Andrewspoonerisms.

    I do agree that the 2008 dissolution cases contributed to the ongoing political conflicts and show how such laws can be counterproductive to the development of democratic processes. I just think they can be discussed in a rational, fact based manner.

  3. Greg Lowe says:

    Ralph, a quick google on Surachai reveals an article by Human Rights Watch dated February 24, 2012.

    Below are the first three pars:

    NEW YORK — Thai courts are refusing bail for people charged with the crime of lese majeste for apparently political reasons, Human Rights Watch said today. Thai law criminalizes the expression of peaceful opinions deemed offensive to the institution of the monarchy.

    In all 12 cases of lese majeste that the public prosecutor has filed against supporters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, known as the Red Shirts, since 2009, bail has been denied, Human Rights Watch said. By contrast, the leader of the pro-monarchy People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), Sondhi Limthongkul, was charged with lese majeste on July 5, 2010, and granted bail the same day.

    “Bail appears to be systematically denied to members of the Red Shirts while they await trial for lese majeste,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “Denial of bail seems to be for punishment rather than for justified reasons.”

    So HRW says the refusal to bail red shirts on LM charges seemed to be politically motivated.

    The story goes on to outline the cases of specific prisoners, including Surachai, Joe Gordon, Somyot Preuksakasemsuk — they expressed concern pre-trial detention was being used as a way to mistreat him.

    HRW’s Brad Adams said: ““The glaring injustices of the lese majeste cases are being made even worse by the denial of bail and long periods of pre-trial detention.”

    So it appears that HRW has not been silent on this matter.

    The full story is here: http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/02/24/thailand-courts-denying-bail-lese-majeste-cases

  4. Greg Lowe says:

    Indeed. I admit to smuggling into the country a 2kg bag of Yorskhire Tea teabags when I came back from the UK in April… It’ll be enough for a year or so. 10 pairs of socks for six quid in Tesco UK. Could start a business re-importing them to Thailand.

  5. Srithanonchai says:

    Greg #8

    Socks from M&S? Are you kidding? No way! However, out of sheer necessity following my move up-country, I was indeed forced to buy a number of pairs at the local Tesco. Well, life is full of suffering…

    P.S.: The big packs of tea at M&S are good value when considering the price per one tea bag.

  6. I would argue that the transhumanist themes espoused by insta-slebs is the most damaging long term.

  7. Greg Lowe says:

    #6 Nicholas, I have to agree with you.

    I may not always agree with Nick Nostitz’s analyses of current events or his predictions about what will transpire in Thailand — we have had and will continue to have impassioned but respectful discussions on related matters — but I think it is fair to say he is utterly scrupulous in his attention to detail, his ability to seek out primary sources and his efforts to separate fact from rumour. Whatever partialities people may assume Nick has, he has developed sources from across the political spectrum in Thailand, including the military and police, and he will give voice to them all.

    Through his discussions on NM, Nick has shown himself to be a fair and balanced observer of Thai politics.

    One may not agree with what he says will happen, but his reporting of verifiable facts, as far as I can see, is not clouded by personal beliefs or agendas. He should be respected for that.

    #3 Srithanonchai, was “Sri Thanonchai” not the merry prankster whose legend is manifest among numerous Southeast Asian cultures… BTW was the sock from M&S too?

  8. Srithanonchai says:

    This Democrat MP, Rangsima, has been well known for her at times bizarre verbal actions in the House. Now she has acted even more strangly. Can hardly wait for her next move…

    There are a number of things I could add to the point of party dissolution, but at this time, I am still too scandalized by what Rangsima did. Meanwhile, for those interested in the CC ruling against the dissolution of the Democrat Party, they might click the following link

    http://www.eajlg.org/article/decision-constitutional-court-kingdom-thailand-ruling-no152553

  9. Ralph Kramden says:

    While a bop vs a bor might be critical for some and others might be very frustrated by this thread, I am still interested to know: (1) which human rights NGOs have expressed concern regarding Surachai Danwattananusorn’s sentencing; and (2) to add another question, is his total of 25 years (prior to reductions) a record for LM in Thailand?

  10. Ralph Kramden says:

    Nich: Trying to escape parliament (as in that video @ #4) is not in the same league as essentially attacking the speaker and physically trying to prevent parliament operating.

    I’ll leave aside the Nazi salutes and assume that that is how the Democrat Party protests in parliament.

  11. Srithanonchai says:

    Greg #4

    Thanks for making me explode with laughter when I came to the “merry prankster” and “sockpuppet” part. Only that my mouth was full of post-luch tea (Extra Strong from Marks & Spencer). You might imagine how my computer screen looked like after that outburst…

  12. Orinoco Woof Woof Blanco says:

    #98 “Bor phen yang, not Bop”

    Leah, have you ever seen Thai road signs in English, let alone English menus in Lao?….. Your hopes of exact transliterative uniformity are a wee bit on the ‘ivory tower’ side I am afraid…. How many English ways are there of spelling Isarn?…. Issan?…. Isan?…. Bor?

  13. Marteau,

    While New Mandala accepts anonymous comments part of me sometimes wonders, especially after put-downs like yours, why we do.

    Nick Nostitz works in public, reports on meaty political topics, publishes his findings and images widely, engages in open debate, is generous with his time and skills, takes journalism seriously, and does all that as a genuinely independent freelancer without hefty institutional backing. I don’t know what else you could want from him.

    Is there any foreign journalist who has done a better job reporting on street-level Thai politics since the 2006 coup?

    Best wishes to all,

    Nich

  14. Marteau says:

    Perhaps Nick is not a card carrying red and he was critical of the use of death squads during Thaksin’s War on Drugs but it’s pretty clear through his reports over the last few years where his sympathies lie and he can hardly be described as an impartial observer.

  15. Greg Lowe says:

    It is article 237 which was added to the 2006 constitution that is the key issue though:

    “Any candidate in an election, who has committed, created or supported any person to commit any act in violation of the Organic Act on Election of Members of the House of Representatives and the Taking of Office of Senators or orders and announcements of the Election Commission, causing the election not to be proceeded in an honest and fair manner, shall be deprived of his or her voting rights in accordance with the Organic Act on Election of Members of the House of Representatives and the Taking of Office of Senators.”

    If any such act of person under paragraph one appears to have convincing evidence that the leader or an executive member of his or her political party has acknowledged or ignored that action or has known of the act but failed to prevent or rectify it in order to ensure an honest and fair election, that political party is assumed to have sought to gain power in state administration by means other than what is provided in Section 68 of the Constitution, and in case the Constitutional Court consequently orders its dissolution, the voting rights of its leader and executive board members shall be revoked for a period of 5 years as from the date of issuance of the party dissolution order.

    It’s ridiculous that every party but one was dissolved as all parties buy votes and engage in other nefarious activities. But article 237 is the most pernicious of additions. I spoke to a number or legal/human rights analysts about this and while they said they couldn’t guarantee that Thailand was the only country to have such a law, they did all say that had themselves never heard of such a law being used elsewhere.

    It’s daft and infantile. I’m sure that you would agree John.

  16. John Smith says:

    Gregg #2
    The dissolving of political parties (every party except the Democrats) and banning of their executives through “judicial activism” was one of the most daft and destructive trends in Thailand’s post-coup politics

    Article 66 of the Political Party Act (in effect prior to the 2006 coup) includes provisions for party dissolution and members being banned.
    Article 66:
    The Constitutional Court may issue an order dissolving a political party which has carried out any of the following:
    (1) an act which overthrows the democratic regime of government with the King as Head or an attempt to gain the administrative power of the State by unconstitutional means;
    (2) an act which may be adverse to the democratic regime of Government with the King as Head of the State under the Constitution;
    (3) an act which may endanger the security of the State, or may be contrary to law or public order or good morals.

    The case against the TRT recommencing dissolution was forwarded by the EC to the Office of Attorney General on June 22 2006. This was followed days later by a similar recommendation against the Democratic Party. The concept of party dissolution in Thailand goes back some time and cannot be blamed solely on the 2006 coup.

    Worth noting that the tactic has not died out even today as the DSI is now recommending the Democratic Party be dissolved because they accepted a flood relief donation last year from a partially owned government corporation.

  17. Greg Lowe says:

    “If you want to tease “Nick,” call him by his full name: Nikolus Moritz Georg Karl Freiherr von Nostitz! Old German nobility…”

    Srithanonchai, you merry prankster you and sockpuppet of whomever. If anyone was to tease Nick by calling him “Nikolus Moritz Georg Karl Freiherr von Nostitz” I think Nick would end up being the one
    who was amused due to the terrible German accidents, though he may be quite impressed someone could be bothered to remember his full name.

    He’s never made any attempt to hide his background. Why would he?

  18. Thanks TU,

    That’s some great footage. The first comment reads: “if she wanted a chair why didn’t she go to IKEA?”.

    Although, to be fair, crazy stuff happens in parliaments in many countries. Non-Australian readers of NM may not yet have seen the extraordinary effort by senior members of Australia’s opposition to flee parliament yesterday. The footage is here.

    Best wishes to all,

    Nich

  19. TU says:

    A better question is if only this guy (Thammarak) is guilty, why the entire 111 members of the party’s executive committee is banned for five years? What kind of constitution is this ?

    Next question, when Pheu Thai won landslide victory in July 2011 elections and secures majority in parliament and now wants to amend the constitution, why the opposition democrat party is so unhappy to the point of its female MP trying to remove and hide the House Speaker’s chair yesterday ?

    Will this scene below ever happen in the UK parliament, for instance?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1Ke2o3Kpylc

  20. Srithanonchai says:

    If you want to tease “Nick,” call him by his full name: Nikolus Moritz Georg Karl Freiherr von Nostitz! Old German nobility…