What does TMU think about U Myint’s call for restoring Rangoon University to its former glory and rebuilding on its old site the students union blown up by Ne Win on 8 July 1962 ?
Ne Win also had the Presidential Palace razed to the ground and had Maha Wizaya Pagoda built at the foot of the Shwedagon towards the end of the tyrant’s life to atone for his sins. His progeny built Naypyidaw where a captive population of civil servants inhabits.
TMU may be pissing in the wind for all they care. It’s time for speeding up the feeding frenzy. All are welcome to rape our country.
Free enterprise matters more than our freedom.
NM is curiously silent about the candlelight protests as well as U Myint’s little indiscretion.
I guess it’s not my job to defend Thant Myint-U but… he is also involved with LIFT, the livelihoods and food security trust fund. I think your criticism is a little unfair.
i was in Thailand for 3months from Dec 2011 to Feb 2012 and visited the prison on 3 occasions and spoke to 7 different LM prisoners none of whom wanted comments directly attributed to them. The visiting time is short and most of my questions had to go through a translator and I was also visiting the prisoners at the same time as their family members whose time with the prisoners I considered more important.
Furthermore, as a “journalist” (blogger is a better description), I am not even supposed to be in there interviewing anyone and, at one point, I was rumbled by the prison guards and, with the aid of a member of the prisoners’ support network, had to smuggle my notes out.
So, difficult circumstances all round.
Yet, as described, all the prisoners expressed quite a nuanced understanding of the wider political situation and realised that forces other than just the Pheu Thai government were involved in perpetuating their situation. Jim Taylor references Surachai in comment 22 and I would say what Surachai said to me echo Jim’s comment.
As has been mentioned by a couple of commentators, I am based in London so when I am in Thailand, which tends to be roughly 5months a year, I have limited time. However, there are plenty of foreign “journalists” based full-time in Bangkok who could make a much better job of recording the views of the prisoners in full. Unfortunately, despite being only a 250baht taxi ride from the centre of Bangkok, very very few of the foreign media corps make it to the prison and speak to the prisoners.
2. via the cronies extracted from the Burmese people.
3. US or other western nations taxpayers’ money.
— does not Thant Myint-U think about protecting the Burmese people, not just the physical spaces, which are important too, but less important than human beings.
Well the lese majeste law in Thailand is a product of undemocratic regimes. In the past it had a very severe punishment and has been abused by politicians on many sides. So that’s why I think we sort of continue with this lese majeste law. It is not good for the royal institution itself, it’s not good for the country as a whole, and it’s quite unproductive for democratic process in Thailand.
BAINBRIDGE:
But you’re looking for its amendment rather than taking it off the books, I mean why not call for its total abolition? Wouldn’t that be the safest path to prevent the abuse of this law?
CHARNVIT:
We have started with this proposal for amendment for improvement for reform, we are not calling for the abolition of the law. This is what we are at at the moment. But of course I understand that some people are unhappy with the law and some people would want to abolish it.
BAINBRIDGE:
There was some expectation that the election of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra would end the abuse of this law, and yet that appears to have made little difference. Why do you think that is?
CHARNVIT:
I am sorry to say that this is kind of nature of the elite in Thailand. They would rather do some kind of compromise for their own benefit up at the top. So a lot of time they do not want to keep their word once they are in power.
“Rather than answer questions that were not asked.”
Tell you what – pull out the line from my story where I write “It is now certain AI/HRW are more responsible for Ah Kong’s death than the govt” and I’ll answer your question.
I believe the statement in the first para was: “can result in decades in prison.” Clearly a 112 conviction can result in sentencing for decades, although we know of no case where anyone has served that period. Amphon got 20 years. In his series of sentences, concluded yesterday, Surachai Danwattananusorn received a total of 25 years, reduced by half for his guilty pleas, made because he is 72 and doesn’t want to die in prison like Amphon. When you are over 70, even 12.5 years is likely to be a death sentence, if served in full.
I suggest Mr. Damage comes out from behind such well worn and tired cliches and takes some time out to “smell the roses”.
The Thai media is all over this trip today – not just the Bangkok Post and The Nation. It is a big deal on Thai TV,Radio and Print. Perhaps not up there with the latest international football story, Lady Gaga etc., but it is being treated as a significant event.
And you are wrong about the car industry too. Companies such as Toyota now make a “world” car, where some bits are made in Oz others in Thailand and largely due to labor costs assembled in Thailand for export around the region – including back to Australia.
If I recall this was a major focus of the FTA.
That the trade is significantly favoring the Thai side is largely due to our (Australia) investors not taking the country seriously.
Granted it is much easier for Thais to invest in Oz than the reverse. But, I would suggest that is partly because of the general Australian (business) ignorance about doing biz in many countries in this region.
2. Yes. I agree about what you mentioned regarding PR, landownership, etc. But why would Thailand give such privileges to Australians before their ASEAN partners? It seems that relaxation of xenophobia/protective/nationalist policies can only be realized in Thailand via ASEAN 2015/20 mechanism. First, it will appears as free movement of skilled labour and we are still struggling to see how it works out in the next few years.
3. I think Oz Vegemite and cheese are expensive in Thailand because the primary market for this kind of “yucky” stuff is foreigner. However, Oz meat is doing well in Thai market. The price is reasonable and the quality is superb. BTW, car/alcohols are subjected to special/excise tax and I suppose FTA doesn’t cover that.
Thant Myint-U is not advocating using public funds to preserve “old world relics”. The point is to come up with a private-sector led plan.
He also makes the point that this plan needs to be about more than preserving the large, colonial-era buildings and also has to be coupled with a modernisation plan for Yangon.
> “Any cases of anyone having spent decades in prison for 112?”
Okay I’ll try and answer my own question. I’ll go for nobody having spent decades in prison for 112. The longest sentence handed down so far has been 20 years but only around 18 months of that (incl time on remand) got served. (And I think estimates of 50-70 years are being bandied around for a couple of pending cases.)
Why should such a misleading assertion appear in the first paragraph? Is it a case of ‘rhetorical grooming’ – trying to slip in some tasty misinformation in the hope that it gets repeated enough and the the shock value will pique the interest of the so-far uninitiated? Or did the author simply not bother to fix up the sentence?
They say never attribute to rabble-rousing and misinformation campaigns that which is adequately explained by haplessness, but seeing as this is Spooner’s work I guess the truth of the matter could fall either way.
These are charges brought by Wyn Ellis. I hope for his sake he doesn’t have to turn up to court too regularly in connection with this case … or else he will most likely be getting third brick through his car window. He’ll be avoiding routes with footbridges by now …
Keep on trying what exactly, Andrew? Trying to get a simple, straight answer to a simple, straight question?
Rather than answer questions that were not asked, or post statements in a way which clumsily attempt to misrepresent my comments, can you stay on topic and answer the question?
Do you seriously hold AI and HRW more to account on LM in general, and Ah Kong’s death in particular, than the government of the day which was in power when Ah Gong received his sentence and was in power when he died in horrible conditions while incarcerated?
With its Director charged with criminal forgery, it seems NIA’s Board has more to worry about than academic plagiarism.
Under NIA’s mandate to grant funds to the private sector, opportunities abound for the unscrupulous, especially when compounded by a lax and compliant Board. It would probably be unfair to shout “Only in Thailand!” but I do marvel at the NIA Board’s solidarity and continuing trust in its dodgy Director.
Highly romantic/ nostalgic/ elitist to preserve and maintain old world relics as treasure.
On the tax money of people who are currently on hungar strike for enough money to eat one meal a day for the family!
These Asian cities are no different to others where unbanization is worshipped for industrialization with unmeasurable loss of social cohesion and comaraderie, traditional culture and morality.
So long as people in power obey to the multinational financing and trading circles and destroy the rural way of peaceful, traditional and wonderful lives to make way for concrete blocks and smoke belching factiories for sucking out the life blood of the citizens, a well preserved Rangoon would be just a museum piece of value to people who buy a Van Gough for 53 millions dollars, only this time Than Myint-U will be using public purse or selling out public property- like minerals.
Just as a point of clarity and housekeeping, could you quote the questions you think or believe you are answering rather than numbering the aimless and unrelated ether.
Here is one from Greg Lowe you neither actually answered nor ethereally numbered, although you half obfuscated in rant numbered 4.
Greg Lowe “Do you seriously hold AI and HRW more to account on this issue than the government of the day?”
Can you answer that, if it’s not too much trouble?
This also might be another one of your aimlessly numbered bullet rants from a fantasy London heat wave that could so with a bit more historical context….
Andrew Spooner “1) without documented evidence any PAD claim – even when judged retrospectively – should be considered dubious at best.”
Dubious at best? It was already just gently pointed out to you that the PAD was not in existence at this time and if you bothered to do your research you would understand that politics did actually exist in Thailand before either the PAD existed or you chose to start blogging (self sponsored barking) furiously from one London borough or another for God alone knows what reason…. And the situation remains highly complex historically with a great many seeming conflicts of interest within seemingly unified movements. What do you think happened to the activists of 1992 and where do you think they went and why and to what reason? And what happened to those they were opposing and to what reason were their actions directed and how were alliances from 2000 onwards formed?…. Then tell me about the ‘retrospective’ PAD or the ‘retrospective’ UDD…. Or the Chao Pho who never went away? …. Your use of the word ‘retrospectively’ is simply childish, maqnipualative and intensely ignorant
How far will your subjective fantasy go? In your vituperative absence a real country with real people does actually continue to exist in Thailand. How far does your bizarre, arbitrary and retrospective sword of justice stretch in ignoring all the facts and discounting all sources you do not consider to fit your template of a Thailand (or world) you feel you so studiously follow (on the world wide web) whilst actually just feeding an ill defined desire for invective ?…… Why not pick on Guatemala or Togo?
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Thant Myint-U on Yangon
What does TMU think about U Myint’s call for restoring Rangoon University to its former glory and rebuilding on its old site the students union blown up by Ne Win on 8 July 1962 ?
We know what the govt thinks.
Ne Win also had the Presidential Palace razed to the ground and had Maha Wizaya Pagoda built at the foot of the Shwedagon towards the end of the tyrant’s life to atone for his sins. His progeny built Naypyidaw where a captive population of civil servants inhabits.
TMU may be pissing in the wind for all they care. It’s time for speeding up the feeding frenzy. All are welcome to rape our country.
Free enterprise matters more than our freedom.
NM is curiously silent about the candlelight protests as well as U Myint’s little indiscretion.
OCCUPY RU!
Thant Myint-U on Yangon
Kyi May Kaung,
I guess it’s not my job to defend Thant Myint-U but… he is also involved with LIFT, the livelihoods and food security trust fund. I think your criticism is a little unfair.
Human rights and lese majeste
Marcus
In reply to comment 17…
i was in Thailand for 3months from Dec 2011 to Feb 2012 and visited the prison on 3 occasions and spoke to 7 different LM prisoners none of whom wanted comments directly attributed to them. The visiting time is short and most of my questions had to go through a translator and I was also visiting the prisoners at the same time as their family members whose time with the prisoners I considered more important.
Furthermore, as a “journalist” (blogger is a better description), I am not even supposed to be in there interviewing anyone and, at one point, I was rumbled by the prison guards and, with the aid of a member of the prisoners’ support network, had to smuggle my notes out.
So, difficult circumstances all round.
Yet, as described, all the prisoners expressed quite a nuanced understanding of the wider political situation and realised that forces other than just the Pheu Thai government were involved in perpetuating their situation. Jim Taylor references Surachai in comment 22 and I would say what Surachai said to me echo Jim’s comment.
As has been mentioned by a couple of commentators, I am based in London so when I am in Thailand, which tends to be roughly 5months a year, I have limited time. However, there are plenty of foreign “journalists” based full-time in Bangkok who could make a much better job of recording the views of the prisoners in full. Unfortunately, despite being only a 250baht taxi ride from the centre of Bangkok, very very few of the foreign media corps make it to the prison and speak to the prisoners.
Thant Myint-U on Yangon
It’s all public money, what are you taking about?
1. extracted from the Burmese people.
2. via the cronies extracted from the Burmese people.
3. US or other western nations taxpayers’ money.
— does not Thant Myint-U think about protecting the Burmese people, not just the physical spaces, which are important too, but less important than human beings.
Kyi May Kaung (Ph.D.)
Human rights and lese majeste
I’m sure that all of you have heard Ajarn Charnvit nail this question on radio Australia …
Thai academics to submit petition on lese majeste law
A tale of two Prime Ministers
It was a fantastic illustration from Abbott. Vajiralongkorn has had a marvellous education! Long live the Crown Prince!
Human rights and lese majeste
John Wright
Fair enough – better wording would’ve been “can potentially result in decades in prison”.
Human rights and lese majeste
Greg
“Rather than answer questions that were not asked.”
Tell you what – pull out the line from my story where I write “It is now certain AI/HRW are more responsible for Ah Kong’s death than the govt” and I’ll answer your question.
Human rights and lese majeste
I believe the statement in the first para was: “can result in decades in prison.” Clearly a 112 conviction can result in sentencing for decades, although we know of no case where anyone has served that period. Amphon got 20 years. In his series of sentences, concluded yesterday, Surachai Danwattananusorn received a total of 25 years, reduced by half for his guilty pleas, made because he is 72 and doesn’t want to die in prison like Amphon. When you are over 70, even 12.5 years is likely to be a death sentence, if served in full.
Prime Minister Yingluck in Canberra
I suggest Mr. Damage comes out from behind such well worn and tired cliches and takes some time out to “smell the roses”.
The Thai media is all over this trip today – not just the Bangkok Post and The Nation. It is a big deal on Thai TV,Radio and Print. Perhaps not up there with the latest international football story, Lady Gaga etc., but it is being treated as a significant event.
And you are wrong about the car industry too. Companies such as Toyota now make a “world” car, where some bits are made in Oz others in Thailand and largely due to labor costs assembled in Thailand for export around the region – including back to Australia.
If I recall this was a major focus of the FTA.
That the trade is significantly favoring the Thai side is largely due to our (Australia) investors not taking the country seriously.
Granted it is much easier for Thais to invest in Oz than the reverse. But, I would suggest that is partly because of the general Australian (business) ignorance about doing biz in many countries in this region.
A tale of two Prime Ministers
Yingluck’s beaming smile held out the hope of democratic stability, built on a foundation of electoral domination and adroit manoeuvring.
I wish.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/NE11Ae03.html
and
https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/sombat-the-dubai-tycoon-has-left-us/
Prime Minister Yingluck in Canberra
Mr. Damage
1. Newspaper are usually slow at reporting. What you said is true yesterday but not today.
The photo of two PMs is in the front page of today’s Bangkok Post.
http://bangkokpost.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx
2. Yes. I agree about what you mentioned regarding PR, landownership, etc. But why would Thailand give such privileges to Australians before their ASEAN partners? It seems that relaxation of xenophobia/protective/nationalist policies can only be realized in Thailand via ASEAN 2015/20 mechanism. First, it will appears as free movement of skilled labour and we are still struggling to see how it works out in the next few years.
3. I think Oz Vegemite and cheese are expensive in Thailand because the primary market for this kind of “yucky” stuff is foreigner. However, Oz meat is doing well in Thai market. The price is reasonable and the quality is superb. BTW, car/alcohols are subjected to special/excise tax and I suppose FTA doesn’t cover that.
Thant Myint-U on Yangon
Ohn,
Thant Myint-U is not advocating using public funds to preserve “old world relics”. The point is to come up with a private-sector led plan.
He also makes the point that this plan needs to be about more than preserving the large, colonial-era buildings and also has to be coupled with a modernisation plan for Yangon.
Human rights and lese majeste
> “Any cases of anyone having spent decades in prison for 112?”
Okay I’ll try and answer my own question. I’ll go for nobody having spent decades in prison for 112. The longest sentence handed down so far has been 20 years but only around 18 months of that (incl time on remand) got served. (And I think estimates of 50-70 years are being bandied around for a couple of pending cases.)
Why should such a misleading assertion appear in the first paragraph? Is it a case of ‘rhetorical grooming’ – trying to slip in some tasty misinformation in the hope that it gets repeated enough and the the shock value will pique the interest of the so-far uninitiated? Or did the author simply not bother to fix up the sentence?
They say never attribute to rabble-rousing and misinformation campaigns that which is adequately explained by haplessness, but seeing as this is Spooner’s work I guess the truth of the matter could fall either way.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
These are charges brought by Wyn Ellis. I hope for his sake he doesn’t have to turn up to court too regularly in connection with this case … or else he will most likely be getting third brick through his car window. He’ll be avoiding routes with footbridges by now …
Human rights and lese majeste
Keep on trying what exactly, Andrew? Trying to get a simple, straight answer to a simple, straight question?
Rather than answer questions that were not asked, or post statements in a way which clumsily attempt to misrepresent my comments, can you stay on topic and answer the question?
Do you seriously hold AI and HRW more to account on LM in general, and Ah Kong’s death in particular, than the government of the day which was in power when Ah Gong received his sentence and was in power when he died in horrible conditions while incarcerated?
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
See latest article at http://www.scidev.net/en/south-east-asia/news/thai-plagiarism-saga-takes-a-new-turn.html.
With its Director charged with criminal forgery, it seems NIA’s Board has more to worry about than academic plagiarism.
Under NIA’s mandate to grant funds to the private sector, opportunities abound for the unscrupulous, especially when compounded by a lax and compliant Board. It would probably be unfair to shout “Only in Thailand!” but I do marvel at the NIA Board’s solidarity and continuing trust in its dodgy Director.
Quid pro quo?
Thant Myint-U on Yangon
Highly romantic/ nostalgic/ elitist to preserve and maintain old world relics as treasure.
On the tax money of people who are currently on hungar strike for enough money to eat one meal a day for the family!
These Asian cities are no different to others where unbanization is worshipped for industrialization with unmeasurable loss of social cohesion and comaraderie, traditional culture and morality.
So long as people in power obey to the multinational financing and trading circles and destroy the rural way of peaceful, traditional and wonderful lives to make way for concrete blocks and smoke belching factiories for sucking out the life blood of the citizens, a well preserved Rangoon would be just a museum piece of value to people who buy a Van Gough for 53 millions dollars, only this time Than Myint-U will be using public purse or selling out public property- like minerals.
Human rights and lese majeste
Thread has gone feral.
Human rights and lese majeste
#34 Andrew Spooner
Just as a point of clarity and housekeeping, could you quote the questions you think or believe you are answering rather than numbering the aimless and unrelated ether.
Here is one from Greg Lowe you neither actually answered nor ethereally numbered, although you half obfuscated in rant numbered 4.
Greg Lowe “Do you seriously hold AI and HRW more to account on this issue than the government of the day?”
Can you answer that, if it’s not too much trouble?
This also might be another one of your aimlessly numbered bullet rants from a fantasy London heat wave that could so with a bit more historical context….
Andrew Spooner “1) without documented evidence any PAD claim – even when judged retrospectively – should be considered dubious at best.”
Dubious at best? It was already just gently pointed out to you that the PAD was not in existence at this time and if you bothered to do your research you would understand that politics did actually exist in Thailand before either the PAD existed or you chose to start blogging (self sponsored barking) furiously from one London borough or another for God alone knows what reason…. And the situation remains highly complex historically with a great many seeming conflicts of interest within seemingly unified movements. What do you think happened to the activists of 1992 and where do you think they went and why and to what reason? And what happened to those they were opposing and to what reason were their actions directed and how were alliances from 2000 onwards formed?…. Then tell me about the ‘retrospective’ PAD or the ‘retrospective’ UDD…. Or the Chao Pho who never went away? …. Your use of the word ‘retrospectively’ is simply childish, maqnipualative and intensely ignorant
How far will your subjective fantasy go? In your vituperative absence a real country with real people does actually continue to exist in Thailand. How far does your bizarre, arbitrary and retrospective sword of justice stretch in ignoring all the facts and discounting all sources you do not consider to fit your template of a Thailand (or world) you feel you so studiously follow (on the world wide web) whilst actually just feeding an ill defined desire for invective ?…… Why not pick on Guatemala or Togo?