“Do they think he really cares about Nurse Kate…” > Well, as Thaksin said, her mother might not agree with an amnesty, but she had to make a sacrifice “for the sake of the country.” Just like Yingluck had to make a “sacrifice” when she met Prem, I guess. (Ha!)
Remember, in the election campaign, Abhisit tried to capitalize on the amnesty issue by telling the red shirts that they should very carefully consider whether they should vote for PT, because its policies included an amnesty, thereby undercutting the red’s desire for justice.
Thaksin’s comments about Section 112 are also hilarious. “I have never really heard of 10 years, 15 years, not even 7 years in the old days.” How could he have heard of such sentences in the old days before the maximum penalty was increased from 3 years to 15 in the 70s by the military installed government? The monarchy seemed to be doing fine and was not under threat of extinction as a result of the lower maximum penalty prior to that? So why doesn’t Thaksin suggest repealing the military sponsored 70s amendment and reverting to the status quo prior to that with which all, except the right wing falangists were happy?
The answer to this can be easily unearthed through a cursory perusal of Thaksin’s personal litigious behavior prior to legging it to avoid prison. He made extensive use of Thailand’s anachronistic criminal libel laws to muzzle any type of adverse criticism. On the one hand Section 112 can be an extremely useful tool for him and preserving it or strengthening it further is a great way for him to show off his ersatz loyalty. On the other hand, the legal academics’ defense of Section 112 always revolves around the fact that the monarchy is unable to protect itself by pursuing criminal libel prosecutions in the way ordinary citizens can. A logical sequence of reforming or removing Section 112 would inevitably be a strong push to level the playing field by removing the wealthy non-royals’ version of it which is the criminal libel law. Quite simple.
Now I am waiting for your next report on the second anniversary of the innocent civilians’ massacre at Ratchaprasong, which will be held on the 19th of May 2012.
It’s quite amusing to the dismay of rank and file red shirt prai at the symbolic reconciliation meeting of Yingluck and Prem. Their movement was set up and funded by Thaksin first of all as a simple foil against the PAD and then greatly expanded to agitate for his return to Thailand with all corruption charges expunged and for the return of his assets.
Do the poor fools really believe that this was some kind of socialist political movement? Do they think he really cares about Nurse Kate or indeed anyone outside his own Chinese clan? Who do the prai now think Thaksin and his lackeys were referring to in his blistering tirades against the amartiya?
We all know the about the powerful dark forces in Cambodia:
26 Apr 2012 12:40
Chut Wutty, director of the Phnom Penh-based environmental watchdog Natural Resource Protection Group, died after military police opened fire near a Chinese-built hydroelectric dam in Koh Kong, said Colonel Kheng Tito, a spokesman for the National Military Police.
@Vichai said:
“This country, I need to know (if CT will oblige). A country that listens seriously to what CT says (and CT has lots to say for his tax money, I can imagine) must have big ears indeed or deaf.”
You either misread my post or are distorting my words, which I am not surprised, because it was not the first time. What I said above is the country which ‘looks after the taxpayers well and listen to what they say seriously’. You distorted my words by substituting ‘myself’ to replace ‘taxpayers’ (notice the pluralisation)…which definitely means more than myself.
I suggest you to read people’s posts more carefully and try to interpret what they say in a reasonable manner. It is not that I care about your future if you did not change your habit; it is just that I find your habit annoying when I read how you distort or misinterpret my words.
I wonder who is looking at local politics in any detail. It seems to me that some of the greatest changes have been at that level, with far more elections than ever before. In some areas the rich and powerful remain entrenched, but there seem to have been changes and in many areas, the average locals have been more assertive.
Andrew Walker and Somchai Phatharathananuntha had some broad comments in their Journal of Contemporary Asia articles a few years ago, and Pasuk and Baker had a couple of chapters in their edited book a couple of years ago. It may be that I am simply blanking on this, but is there anyone else who has published on the cut-and-thrust of the local elections of recent years?
Eventually these endless moronic Hitler tropes wear out the idiots who excel in them, was my impression. But as CT & Co. above ably demonstrate above, I will be wrong as usual in such things.
(The country tax collector deserved every bit of tax collected from CT. Fair exchange for the never ending Hitler-cum-Thailand CT oration, eh).
Neither major party has broken free of the Chao Pho’s. They both have their Nevins, Vatanas, Banharns, Sanohs, and Chalerms.
While it is correct to criticize PT for their dealing with scum, it seems bizarre to claim that the Democrats, the army, and the Amnart aren’t in fact equally guilty of the same crimes.
In fact, it was an explicit intention of the 1997 constitution to eliminate the political power of the Chao Pho’s, and one that did have some success.
To the degree that the Democrats, Army, and Amnart are backing the dinosaur 2007 constitution, they are more closely associated with the return of the dinosaurs to political relevance.
However, at the end of the day, the current Thai political system makes it impossible to rule the country without partnering with a set of provincial thugs.
The objective should be to point to specific political reforms that can eliminate the power of the Chao Phos (as the 1997 constitution attempted to do), not to blame one party of the other for suffering from what is basically a parasitic infection.
The Government of Malaysia has an amazing ability to project a moderate image to unsuspecting foreigners while treating its own citizens in less than edifying manner.
Can you imagine that Malaysia’s current Prime Minister is the de facto leader for “The Global Movement of Moderates.”
Compare the article you linked with this op-ed by Malaysia’s most renowned academic, Professor AB Shamsul, “Malaysia’s Gift to the World” and you begin to understand what Malaysia’s ruling elite is actually made off (and the need for independent observers.)
Rejoice that the West finally realize in Thein Sein a golden opportunity to stop missing out on market share. Rejoice that ASSK now has her match in attracting Western support, forget Zoya Phan, a mere whipper snapper of an ethnic dissident. Rejoice that Thant Myint-U and your good selfless self can cheer openly the regime’s frontman, a Burmese Gorbachev and de Klerk rolled into one.
Never mind the small matter of the Kachin or the massive Shwe Gas gash across the land, it’s only a Burmese Chechnya and Aral Sea/Black Sea. Never mind the family and crony business monopolies, warlordism of militia chiefs twinned with the USDP in all ethnic regions, ongoing land confiscations, persecution of dissident monks, remaining political prisoners etc., since
a rising tide lifts all boats.
An anti-Semitic sermon prepared and distributed by the Malaysian Federal Territory Islamic Affairs Department was aired on March 30 in all the mosques of the capital city, Kuala Lumpur. The sermon called “to understand that Jews are the main enemy to Muslims as proven by their egotistical behavior and murders performed by them.”
The West finally realize without admission of guilt the useless careless policy’s effect on Myanmar Citizenry, thus reversing without approval from past fan like Zoe Phan and such.
“Whether the trickle-down will be substantial is quite another matter. What is certain is that the ruling elite (‘power sharers’ included, ethnic and Bamar) will be laughing all the way to the bank while we the peoples of Burma will be in deep hock to the IMF and all the world class Chettiars for generations to come.”
Such arrogance and disregard for the common Myanmar citizenry plight permanently make you and your ilks the same elitist(s).
the thing about violence is tricky: the red want the Democrats to be responsible for the May 2010 crackdown; the red also want the yellow to be prosecuted properly for airport occupation; the yellow and the Democrats want the red to be tried for inciting violence in both songkran 2009 and 2010; and many violent incidents happened in the provinces…
if amnesty is not granted to violent cases, the fight will continue; if it is granted, they will not accept it easily either.
that’s a hard talk on reconciliation table.
but i think they’ll get over it… the Reconciliation Show will go on even when some are still screaming discontent.
nice to hear some response! I agree with you. That’s exactly why I wrote in the post that personal charm of Thaksin cannot fully explain the stubborn political preference of the red shirts. The upcountry citizens believe not only in his capacity but also his commitment to help them.
If I may just add one more point to your comment, benefiting from Thaksin’s policy is not the whole story yet. People feel proud and empowered because they can elect someone who is responsive and accountable to them. The meaningful electoral participation gives people not only dignity but also hope for better future. That’s why they stick with Thaksin who symbolizes political efficacy and a more promising future.
And Thaksin’s electoral mandate is probably the envy of the Democrats. I understand your abstention too CT. I feel frustrated with any Thai politician as well. But really the provincial voters see something different. For them, Thaksin is a much better alternative.
# 58 johninbkk… “Going back to the article, I’ve had a thought . . .”
If we could…. Nick’s thorough, thoughtful and excellent work deserves better than to be drawn into a mirror image of the worst kind of PAD propaganda here on New Mandala….. Shocking.
Dan said that the question of whether or not a democracy is successful is complex ” and depends on the integrity of the institutions that one needs to support it and the effective regulation of abuses …” (C.40)
I think that just about everyone would agree with that. The question is in Thailand about precisely which institutions have failed democracy. Dan mentions the Thaksin era police and justice system and many, including myself, would agree with that. Others would also list a few more institutions – the army, the media, the Democrats as an opposition party, and … I can’t think of any more institutions.
“Although I am a Thai, but I prefer to live overseas and pay tax to the country that actually looks after its taxpayers and listen to what they say seriously.” (CT#57)
This country, I need to know (if CT will oblige). A country that listens seriously to what CT says (and CT has lots to say for his tax money, I can imagine) must have big ears indeed or deaf.
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Shan warlord captured?
Reported in the Bangkok Post today too…
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/crimes/290626/shan-drug-lord-suspect-nabbed-in-laos-sent-to-china
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
#68
“Do they think he really cares about Nurse Kate…” > Well, as Thaksin said, her mother might not agree with an amnesty, but she had to make a sacrifice “for the sake of the country.” Just like Yingluck had to make a “sacrifice” when she met Prem, I guess. (Ha!)
Look at this pinky picture…
http://nationmultimedia.com/politics/Thaksin-flying-to-England-for-Manchester-derby-30180825.html
Remember, in the election campaign, Abhisit tried to capitalize on the amnesty issue by telling the red shirts that they should very carefully consider whether they should vote for PT, because its policies included an amnesty, thereby undercutting the red’s desire for justice.
Malaysia needs independent electoral observers
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=32868:heres-the-proof-please-resign-immediately-saifuddin-tells-ec-no1-and-no2&Itemid=2
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
Thaksin’s comments about Section 112 are also hilarious. “I have never really heard of 10 years, 15 years, not even 7 years in the old days.” How could he have heard of such sentences in the old days before the maximum penalty was increased from 3 years to 15 in the 70s by the military installed government? The monarchy seemed to be doing fine and was not under threat of extinction as a result of the lower maximum penalty prior to that? So why doesn’t Thaksin suggest repealing the military sponsored 70s amendment and reverting to the status quo prior to that with which all, except the right wing falangists were happy?
The answer to this can be easily unearthed through a cursory perusal of Thaksin’s personal litigious behavior prior to legging it to avoid prison. He made extensive use of Thailand’s anachronistic criminal libel laws to muzzle any type of adverse criticism. On the one hand Section 112 can be an extremely useful tool for him and preserving it or strengthening it further is a great way for him to show off his ersatz loyalty. On the other hand, the legal academics’ defense of Section 112 always revolves around the fact that the monarchy is unable to protect itself by pursuing criminal libel prosecutions in the way ordinary citizens can. A logical sequence of reforming or removing Section 112 would inevitably be a strong push to level the playing field by removing the wealthy non-royals’ version of it which is the criminal libel law. Quite simple.
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
Excellent article and photos, Nick.
Now I am waiting for your next report on the second anniversary of the innocent civilians’ massacre at Ratchaprasong, which will be held on the 19th of May 2012.
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
It’s quite amusing to the dismay of rank and file red shirt prai at the symbolic reconciliation meeting of Yingluck and Prem. Their movement was set up and funded by Thaksin first of all as a simple foil against the PAD and then greatly expanded to agitate for his return to Thailand with all corruption charges expunged and for the return of his assets.
Do the poor fools really believe that this was some kind of socialist political movement? Do they think he really cares about Nurse Kate or indeed anyone outside his own Chinese clan? Who do the prai now think Thaksin and his lackeys were referring to in his blistering tirades against the amartiya?
Singapore’s insatiable hunger for sand
We all know the about the powerful dark forces in Cambodia:
26 Apr 2012 12:40
Chut Wutty, director of the Phnom Penh-based environmental watchdog Natural Resource Protection Group, died after military police opened fire near a Chinese-built hydroelectric dam in Koh Kong, said Colonel Kheng Tito, a spokesman for the National Military Police.
http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/top-cambodian-activist-dead-after-police-shoot-out
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
@Vichai said:
“This country, I need to know (if CT will oblige). A country that listens seriously to what CT says (and CT has lots to say for his tax money, I can imagine) must have big ears indeed or deaf.”
You either misread my post or are distorting my words, which I am not surprised, because it was not the first time. What I said above is the country which ‘looks after the taxpayers well and listen to what they say seriously’. You distorted my words by substituting ‘myself’ to replace ‘taxpayers’ (notice the pluralisation)…which definitely means more than myself.
I suggest you to read people’s posts more carefully and try to interpret what they say in a reasonable manner. It is not that I care about your future if you did not change your habit; it is just that I find your habit annoying when I read how you distort or misinterpret my words.
When Thaksin comes home
I wonder who is looking at local politics in any detail. It seems to me that some of the greatest changes have been at that level, with far more elections than ever before. In some areas the rich and powerful remain entrenched, but there seem to have been changes and in many areas, the average locals have been more assertive.
Andrew Walker and Somchai Phatharathananuntha had some broad comments in their Journal of Contemporary Asia articles a few years ago, and Pasuk and Baker had a couple of chapters in their edited book a couple of years ago. It may be that I am simply blanking on this, but is there anyone else who has published on the cut-and-thrust of the local elections of recent years?
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
Eventually these endless moronic Hitler tropes wear out the idiots who excel in them, was my impression. But as CT & Co. above ably demonstrate above, I will be wrong as usual in such things.
(The country tax collector deserved every bit of tax collected from CT. Fair exchange for the never ending Hitler-cum-Thailand CT oration, eh).
When Thaksin comes home
Neither major party has broken free of the Chao Pho’s. They both have their Nevins, Vatanas, Banharns, Sanohs, and Chalerms.
While it is correct to criticize PT for their dealing with scum, it seems bizarre to claim that the Democrats, the army, and the Amnart aren’t in fact equally guilty of the same crimes.
In fact, it was an explicit intention of the 1997 constitution to eliminate the political power of the Chao Pho’s, and one that did have some success.
To the degree that the Democrats, Army, and Amnart are backing the dinosaur 2007 constitution, they are more closely associated with the return of the dinosaurs to political relevance.
However, at the end of the day, the current Thai political system makes it impossible to rule the country without partnering with a set of provincial thugs.
The objective should be to point to specific political reforms that can eliminate the power of the Chao Phos (as the 1997 constitution attempted to do), not to blame one party of the other for suffering from what is basically a parasitic infection.
Malaysia needs independent electoral observers
@ Hanoi Paris Hilton
The Government of Malaysia has an amazing ability to project a moderate image to unsuspecting foreigners while treating its own citizens in less than edifying manner.
Can you imagine that Malaysia’s current Prime Minister is the de facto leader for “The Global Movement of Moderates.”
Compare the article you linked with this op-ed by Malaysia’s most renowned academic, Professor AB Shamsul, “Malaysia’s Gift to the World” and you begin to understand what Malaysia’s ruling elite is actually made off (and the need for independent observers.)
They’re simply not to be trusted.
Seeking practical benefits from national reconciliation in Myanmar
Aww…did it upset you too much, plan B?
Rejoice that the West finally realize in Thein Sein a golden opportunity to stop missing out on market share. Rejoice that ASSK now has her match in attracting Western support, forget Zoya Phan, a mere whipper snapper of an ethnic dissident. Rejoice that Thant Myint-U and your good selfless self can cheer openly the regime’s frontman, a Burmese Gorbachev and de Klerk rolled into one.
Never mind the small matter of the Kachin or the massive Shwe Gas gash across the land, it’s only a Burmese Chechnya and Aral Sea/Black Sea. Never mind the family and crony business monopolies, warlordism of militia chiefs twinned with the USDP in all ethnic regions, ongoing land confiscations, persecution of dissident monks, remaining political prisoners etc., since
a rising tide lifts all boats.
Malaysia needs independent electoral observers
Maybe a bit OT, but then again maybe not:
An anti-Semitic sermon prepared and distributed by the Malaysian Federal Territory Islamic Affairs Department was aired on March 30 in all the mosques of the capital city, Kuala Lumpur. The sermon called “to understand that Jews are the main enemy to Muslims as proven by their egotistical behavior and murders performed by them.”
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3034/anti-christian-anti-jewish-malaysia
Booming Burma
Asian Whore, rape, disco gold, Chettiars, such bitter depiction of a country that gave you the name:
Ko Moe Aung
Still sentiments all maily base on misguided hatred for this preset government, now against Uncle Crusoe.
Choke on this one:
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2111975_2111976_2112089,00.html
The West finally realize without admission of guilt the useless careless policy’s effect on Myanmar Citizenry, thus reversing without approval from past fan like Zoe Phan and such.
“Whether the trickle-down will be substantial is quite another matter. What is certain is that the ruling elite (‘power sharers’ included, ethnic and Bamar) will be laughing all the way to the bank while we the peoples of Burma will be in deep hock to the IMF and all the world class Chettiars for generations to come.”
Such arrogance and disregard for the common Myanmar citizenry plight permanently make you and your ilks the same elitist(s).
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
@johninbkk #58
the thing about violence is tricky: the red want the Democrats to be responsible for the May 2010 crackdown; the red also want the yellow to be prosecuted properly for airport occupation; the yellow and the Democrats want the red to be tried for inciting violence in both songkran 2009 and 2010; and many violent incidents happened in the provinces…
if amnesty is not granted to violent cases, the fight will continue; if it is granted, they will not accept it easily either.
that’s a hard talk on reconciliation table.
but i think they’ll get over it… the Reconciliation Show will go on even when some are still screaming discontent.
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
@CT #57
nice to hear some response! I agree with you. That’s exactly why I wrote in the post that personal charm of Thaksin cannot fully explain the stubborn political preference of the red shirts. The upcountry citizens believe not only in his capacity but also his commitment to help them.
If I may just add one more point to your comment, benefiting from Thaksin’s policy is not the whole story yet. People feel proud and empowered because they can elect someone who is responsive and accountable to them. The meaningful electoral participation gives people not only dignity but also hope for better future. That’s why they stick with Thaksin who symbolizes political efficacy and a more promising future.
And Thaksin’s electoral mandate is probably the envy of the Democrats. I understand your abstention too CT. I feel frustrated with any Thai politician as well. But really the provincial voters see something different. For them, Thaksin is a much better alternative.
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
# 58 johninbkk… “Going back to the article, I’ve had a thought . . .”
If we could…. Nick’s thorough, thoughtful and excellent work deserves better than to be drawn into a mirror image of the worst kind of PAD propaganda here on New Mandala….. Shocking.
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
Dan said that the question of whether or not a democracy is successful is complex ” and depends on the integrity of the institutions that one needs to support it and the effective regulation of abuses …” (C.40)
I think that just about everyone would agree with that. The question is in Thailand about precisely which institutions have failed democracy. Dan mentions the Thaksin era police and justice system and many, including myself, would agree with that. Others would also list a few more institutions – the army, the media, the Democrats as an opposition party, and … I can’t think of any more institutions.
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
“Although I am a Thai, but I prefer to live overseas and pay tax to the country that actually looks after its taxpayers and listen to what they say seriously.” (CT#57)
This country, I need to know (if CT will oblige). A country that listens seriously to what CT says (and CT has lots to say for his tax money, I can imagine) must have big ears indeed or deaf.