Should the movie be banned – it depends.
If this movie contains calls for violence against political opponents, then there would be ample reason for a ban.
If it is just a highly biased piece of political activism barely hiding under the mantle of art – a ban is not justified. Freedom of opinion means also the freedom of one’s opponents opinions.
I have seen only the trailer, and read the on political prisoners the statements of Manit and Ing K, therefore i cannot judge if this film contains material that would in my view justify a ban. What i can judge though is that it is highly biased propaganda, and some of the film makers statements contain clear falsehoods, feeding their political leanings, such as, for example, their statement that on April 28 a soldiers supposedly died through a sniper. No, this soldier did not die by the hand of a mysterious sniper, but from a panic induced over-reaction by the soldiers about one hour after the clashes ceased – a sad friendly fire incident that occurred in front of me. In this context, by the way, i have never heard any public statement of both film makers regarding the clearly documented cases of killings of unarmed protesters in 2010 by the military, and how those incidents fit into their political leanings.
As to adding one’s name to a petition: before i would ever think putting my name under a petition, i would like to be informed. First, i would like to see the film i am asked to support, secondly, i would like to see the reasons of the censorship board. But i would also like to see, as Political Prisoners hinted at, that the film makers would engage themselves for the many prisoners under the lese majeste laws.
Freedom of opinion goes both ways indeed – one cannot just claim status of being oppressed, while at the same time being silent, or event supportive, of the oppression of others.
And both Ing K and Manit (and many other artists, such as Vasan Sittikhet) have been very silent when faced with the abuses committed of the side they openly support and whose patronage they receive including the benefits that come with being part of such a network, while only being outspoken about the undeniable abuses of their opponents (though on occasion exaggerating those and selectively propagating the biased versions convenient to their political supporters and patrons).
At the present moment though, for me, this film, its ban, and the statements of the film makers regarding censorship are nothing but part of the ongoing political trench warfare that has very little to do with a laudable fight against censorship and for the ideals of freedom of opinion.
I would reverse my view if i would see that Ing K and Manit would extend their fight against censorship to all in Thailand censored people regardless of color, including the ones that are in prison and/or at court under the lese majeste and cyber crime laws.
I just marveled at how Thai people (not all, but dare I say majority?) just love it. The uniforms and medals, the grandeur, the solemnity, the rituals.
Surely, most of us (i.e. most people as opposed to just Thai people) are drawn to an unusually grand show – particularly if it’s free (albeit funded by the taxpayers). Can you really say for sure that many let alone most onlookers (as opposed to the serried ranks of invited/need-to-be-seen-there phu yai) were drawn to yesterday’s events by any sense of paying respect/homage to a departed princess? If not for the grandeur of the spectacle, how many do you think would have gone there? Given that it was a funeral, how many of those you saw there looked sad/upset as opposed to simply fascinated?
I’ve once attended the Trooping of the Colour on the Queen’s birthday in London – but then I’ve also been in Moscow’s Red Square for a mass military parade. Both occasions were hugely impressive but neither labels me a fan of what was being commemorated – any more than would be the case if I joined the Champs Elysee crowds on 14th July.
All of these events, with their spectacular pomp and circumstance, are very well calculated to produce a powerful effect. With all the massive resources deployed, small wonder that (to paraphrase) “if you stage it, they will come”.
I’ll have to revise my previous feelings after listening a bit in Isan.
I’ll just say that reform and change have been essential elements over the course of Thai history and that this place is going to get very interesting.
Suzie, did I read “inappropriate to the Thai political context”?? Tell me it was a joke, please! It’s obvious “Shakespeare Must Die” is a provocation from the anti-Thaksin camp, as much as it’s obvious the PTP govt was stupid enough to take the bait. This said, it should be more than just obvious that these people must be allowed to freely express their thoughts. You sound exactly like all Ministers of Culture, present and past, with their idiotic rants about Thainess, and what is appropriate for poor, little, impressionable Thai people.
10 April 2010 was the day which my mum removed the picture of the K and Q from our home wall, tore the picture away, and threw it in the rubbish bin. She did this after she saw the soldiers coming out to kill the protesters and that people got killed.
@Gunther wrote:
“Good grief…..time for the Thai royalists to wake up and smell the bacon……..their over-produced and wildly over-budget show is over.”
Please, don’t make it over yet. Please wait until my beloved Princess Srirasmi become Queen of Thailand first. After my beloved Srirasmi is a Queen and all the Royalists have a chance to prostrate to her feet, then I don’t care what will happen…
…unless, if Khun Ploypailin Jensen can be the next Queen ^^
The mighty Sibeh Ah Beng, Sabai Sabai, Martino Ray, Grasshopper pop quiz team says:
We believe your position on this contradicts your many other more liberal positions posted throughout the years. Isn’t it condescending to believe that reconciliation wouldn’t occur irrespective of such a film? Are you not taking the position of a nanny for people who should know better? It’s nothing like a KKK hate speech, not in the slightest. Have you seen it? Unless you’re Suzie Poppins, we’re afraid your parental advisory will be ignored, because, frankly, it’s ridiculous.
Exactly Stephen. The regime had to change tack and so did ASSK each trying to find a way out of the impasse. International pressure did have and still has an important role to play since there is no denying that we are where we are because the regime wanted legitimacy and greater economic opportunities, the latter definitely of mutual interest to the West.
Many are optimistic about the eventual outcome; many others aren’t so sanguine. This may prove to be a slippery slope for either party, govt or opposition, albeit the arena and stratagem are chosen and planned by those in power to suit their own agenda. The dice is loaded but it all depends on the players, both international and domestic, both the leaders and the peoples of Burma.
An example of ASEAN’s successful engagement of Burma in contrast to the West’s aggressive, punitive-based approach occured in the aftermath of Cyclone Nargis in 2008. While Burma’s leaders recoiled from the West’s humanitarian offers, as figures such as then Aust. PM Kevin Rudd called on the international community to ‘bash the doors down’ to deliver aid, and French FM Bernard Kouchner invoked the R2P doctrine as a foundation for justifying intervention, ASEAN, as a regional, non-threatening institution, was able to act as mediator and coordinator of aid efforts. As norms of democracy, human rights and good governance solidify within ASEAN, Burma may also become increasingly forced to accept these norms as non-negotiable.
Just keep in mind two things. First, the time dimension, that is, the decades of indoctrination from early childhood onwards, in the absence of the promotion of an alternative state model. Surely, this would affect a number of people. So, no suprise here that you saw people who just loved the whole funeral thing.
Second, those people who did turn out to the funeral, in terms of numbers, are nothing compared to those who stayed at home. I even know Thai people who are strictly against this royalist show of pomp, but nevertheless watched part of it on TV (even I myself watched it, though only for the duration of having my lunch in a small shop that had turned on the TV).
Even in provincial Thailand, celebrations of the king’s birthday are events for the officials. As state functionaries, they must perform their celebratory duties. What they think is another story. But, surely, you will hardly meet any ordinary citizens at such events.
With some embarassment, I admit that, when I was about thirteen years old, I willingly joined my class and waited at the roadside to wave at Queen Elizabeth when she drove by in an open car. These days, there are not many republican westeners who would want to have their monarchies back. But a number of them still fall for any good show, be it a royal funeral, a royal wedding (Kate is soooo cute), a concert of Madonna, or the opening ceremony of the Olympic games.
The language used in this movie — Shakespeare Must Die — arouses hatred regardless of any political leanings. It is similar to the Klu Klux Klan hate speech.
While the Thai leaders are trying to achieve the political reconciliation, this movie is working against that objective. The ulterior motive of the movie is inappropriate to the Thai political context; thus, it should be banned.
“It’s my belief that this concept of a virtuous king presiding over Thailand is not only central to who the Thai people are, but something they love, and most importantly need. This society is based on higher and lower and most Thais believe that everything would simply be better with a sacred person at the very top.”
================
After watching all 10 Thai channels broadcast the endless, Las Vegas glitz, totally lame “reality tv show” of the previously unknown “Princess” funeral/cremation, I find all this pretend “devotion” and “solemnity” hard to believe. It’s more like an episode from “Survivor” where the contestant who wins is the one who can stay awake, at least keep their eyes open, the longest. Even the most ardent royalists at the event were having a hard time not nodding off as the assembled servants plodded around on their knees and prostrated themselves endlessly before the “sacred” high persons.
Good grief…..time for the Thai royalists to wake up and smell the bacon……..their over-produced and wildly over-budget show is over.
I am so relieved that you did not end the tirade with “salam/peace” after promising to “burn your ass”.
I am also glad that not all muslims are like you, always threatening violence whenever things don’t go your way. One can talk about scholarly persuit all one wants, but if the fundamental desire to “burn” someone else’s ass then the scholarship is only pretense, nothing more.
This is the kind of behavior that gives Muslims a bad name. Please have a heart and think of your Muslim brothers and sisters who have to live amongst others. Plus, please do not pretend to do Allah’s work or defend “him” Allah is al powerful and does not need “protecting”
The claim that “Progress did not occur in Burma because military leaders suddenly realized that they had erred. It came about precisely because of international pressure,” seems to me not only overly confident about the impact of international pressure, but misses the ways in which reforms can serve elite interests without been about any “sudden realisation that they had erred.” In this light, the changes can perhaps be better understood according to what Gramsci called the “passive revolution,” in which reforms serve “to gradually and organically change a society in such a way that [meets] the demands of the ruling class” and undercuts what are potentially more radical popular demands.
Souvanna Phouma was never a member of the revolutionary movement. When a monument is built for Phetxarat, then we might see one for Souvanna Phouma who was a nationalist. I’m sure we won’t see statues of Savang Vatthana any time soon, because in the eyes of the current regime he was too closely associated with the American war effort and Vang Pao’s guerrilla forces. I presume that if family members have the funds they can build memorials on their own private land, as in the case of General Sounthone Pathammavong’s family. With regards to the statues of Lao kings, these are all artists impressions since we have no historic images to refer to. Due to the patriotic theming of these images the Lao public have accepted them with little debate. It will be interesting to see how people react when they see the Chinese crafted images of Sithon Kommadam and co. which are in the works at present. I remember lots of locals muttering with discontent when the images of Kaysone were unveiled. It would be interesting to know who is involved in the process of image selection when choosing the best representation of Party leaders.
Thank you for your input. For some odd reason, I have this thought that the Lao people still have this affection for deceased leaders. One last bit, how does Souvannaphouma fit into this revolutionary history? There is never any mention of him. Even I forget he existed at times, same with the late King Sisavang Vatthana. I guess the rewriting of history is doing it’s job.
Adam said:
Regarding the Allah issue, just because you use it as a pronoun to call your one and only God, you cannot claim ownership of the word.
Muslims have all the right to claim ownership and copyright of the word Allah.
Where in your original Bible does it say you call god Allah.???
If there is none why do you change your gods name.??
If I was your god and you changed my name I definitely would burn your ass.!!!
I am sure Christians who change their gods name would definitely be burned in their ass in hell.
You guys just blasphemed your god Yahweh and Allah by associating the trinity to a one god.
Dear Adam,
for your information ,..No Christian scholar has refuted in a debate the falacy and illogic of Christian trinity.All over youtube the illogic of trinity is disseminated.Why belief in lies(trinity) that the Bible did not say.
I am prepared to debate your most learned priests on the trinity lie.
Just drop a line at my blog.
“Speaking of democracy, wouldn’t it be interesting to start a campaign to have a People’s Funeral, much like the one today for Princess Bejaratana, along with the 200 million baht from the government, for Pridi Phanomyong?”
On a smaller scale than you suggest, but nevertheless rather provocative to the establishment, you have had at least one “people’s funeral” at Wat Damlu in Samut Prakan province on September 11, 2011, for Vasan Putong (the man with the flag) who was killed on April 10, 2010. His corpse was laid on a very elaborate 7 tier pagoda before being cremated. The funeral was attended by thousands maybe ten thousand Red Shirts, or more.
Naturally when you go to Sanam Luang to a royal event, you will see as you described. But to see the other side of the coin, you will have to go to other places and events (at least since Sanam Luang has been closed to political protest events).
“…why was it that the Red Shirts were supposed to be loyal and respectful to the king?”
Because it’s Thailand and the powers that be say that you should or else you can enjoy cracked red bean soup with a hole in the ground to relieve yourself in a cell with 50 other undesirables.
“Which begs the question of how this piece of official propaganda has found its way into the mental set-up of a Westener from a country that does not have a king.”
My point is that it’s not all propaganda. This has been my great discovery, despite myself. I went down to Sanam Luang today and I just marveled at how Thai people (not all, but dare I say majority?) just love it. The uniforms and medals, the grandeur, the solemnity, the rituals. They just can’t get enough of it it seems.
That I have come to think this way is sort of ridiculous when I think about it. But don’t confuse where I think many Thais are coming from with what I believe about power, nation, and citizenship. What I believe from my own tradition and culture is the opposite of what I have come to see in Thai culture regarding monarchy (not all Thais!).
I guess it’s why I love studying it so much. It’s just the absolute antithesis of what I believe. So no, all the monarchist propaganda in the world, despite what I have written about what I believe most Thais believe (or a hell of a lot of them), would never change my views about freedom and democracy. What it has done is made me appreciate on a much deeper level the ideals on which my nation was founded.
Speaking of democracy, wouldn’t it be interesting to start a campaign to have a People’s Funeral, much like the one today for Princess Bejaratana, along with the 200 million baht from the government, for Pridi Phanomyong?
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Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
“Maratjp”:
“I’ll have to revise my previous feelings after listening a bit in Isan.”
Contemporary Thailand is a steep learning curve – very interesting, very exiting, and times quite terrifying.
Double, double toil and trouble…
Should the movie be banned – it depends.
If this movie contains calls for violence against political opponents, then there would be ample reason for a ban.
If it is just a highly biased piece of political activism barely hiding under the mantle of art – a ban is not justified. Freedom of opinion means also the freedom of one’s opponents opinions.
I have seen only the trailer, and read the on political prisoners the statements of Manit and Ing K, therefore i cannot judge if this film contains material that would in my view justify a ban. What i can judge though is that it is highly biased propaganda, and some of the film makers statements contain clear falsehoods, feeding their political leanings, such as, for example, their statement that on April 28 a soldiers supposedly died through a sniper. No, this soldier did not die by the hand of a mysterious sniper, but from a panic induced over-reaction by the soldiers about one hour after the clashes ceased – a sad friendly fire incident that occurred in front of me. In this context, by the way, i have never heard any public statement of both film makers regarding the clearly documented cases of killings of unarmed protesters in 2010 by the military, and how those incidents fit into their political leanings.
As to adding one’s name to a petition: before i would ever think putting my name under a petition, i would like to be informed. First, i would like to see the film i am asked to support, secondly, i would like to see the reasons of the censorship board. But i would also like to see, as Political Prisoners hinted at, that the film makers would engage themselves for the many prisoners under the lese majeste laws.
Freedom of opinion goes both ways indeed – one cannot just claim status of being oppressed, while at the same time being silent, or event supportive, of the oppression of others.
And both Ing K and Manit (and many other artists, such as Vasan Sittikhet) have been very silent when faced with the abuses committed of the side they openly support and whose patronage they receive including the benefits that come with being part of such a network, while only being outspoken about the undeniable abuses of their opponents (though on occasion exaggerating those and selectively propagating the biased versions convenient to their political supporters and patrons).
At the present moment though, for me, this film, its ban, and the statements of the film makers regarding censorship are nothing but part of the ongoing political trench warfare that has very little to do with a laudable fight against censorship and for the ideals of freedom of opinion.
I would reverse my view if i would see that Ing K and Manit would extend their fight against censorship to all in Thailand censored people regardless of color, including the ones that are in prison and/or at court under the lese majeste and cyber crime laws.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Maratjp (c39)
I just marveled at how Thai people (not all, but dare I say majority?) just love it. The uniforms and medals, the grandeur, the solemnity, the rituals.
Surely, most of us (i.e. most people as opposed to just Thai people) are drawn to an unusually grand show – particularly if it’s free (albeit funded by the taxpayers). Can you really say for sure that many let alone most onlookers (as opposed to the serried ranks of invited/need-to-be-seen-there phu yai) were drawn to yesterday’s events by any sense of paying respect/homage to a departed princess? If not for the grandeur of the spectacle, how many do you think would have gone there? Given that it was a funeral, how many of those you saw there looked sad/upset as opposed to simply fascinated?
I’ve once attended the Trooping of the Colour on the Queen’s birthday in London – but then I’ve also been in Moscow’s Red Square for a mass military parade. Both occasions were hugely impressive but neither labels me a fan of what was being commemorated – any more than would be the case if I joined the Champs Elysee crowds on 14th July.
All of these events, with their spectacular pomp and circumstance, are very well calculated to produce a powerful effect. With all the massive resources deployed, small wonder that (to paraphrase) “if you stage it, they will come”.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Nick and Sirithathonchai,
I’ll have to revise my previous feelings after listening a bit in Isan.
I’ll just say that reform and change have been essential elements over the course of Thai history and that this place is going to get very interesting.
There’s more common ground then many might think.
Double, double toil and trouble…
Suzie, did I read “inappropriate to the Thai political context”?? Tell me it was a joke, please! It’s obvious “Shakespeare Must Die” is a provocation from the anti-Thaksin camp, as much as it’s obvious the PTP govt was stupid enough to take the bait. This said, it should be more than just obvious that these people must be allowed to freely express their thoughts. You sound exactly like all Ministers of Culture, present and past, with their idiotic rants about Thainess, and what is appropriate for poor, little, impressionable Thai people.
10 April 2010
10 April 2010 was the day which my mum removed the picture of the K and Q from our home wall, tore the picture away, and threw it in the rubbish bin. She did this after she saw the soldiers coming out to kill the protesters and that people got killed.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
@Gunther wrote:
“Good grief…..time for the Thai royalists to wake up and smell the bacon……..their over-produced and wildly over-budget show is over.”
Please, don’t make it over yet. Please wait until my beloved Princess Srirasmi become Queen of Thailand first. After my beloved Srirasmi is a Queen and all the Royalists have a chance to prostrate to her feet, then I don’t care what will happen…
…unless, if Khun Ploypailin Jensen can be the next Queen ^^
Double, double toil and trouble…
We have made a meme, our first mind you, for this ridiculous situation.
http://i.imgur.com/tO1DW.jpg
Dearest Suzie,
We believe your position on this contradicts your many other more liberal positions posted throughout the years. Isn’t it condescending to believe that reconciliation wouldn’t occur irrespective of such a film? Are you not taking the position of a nanny for people who should know better? It’s nothing like a KKK hate speech, not in the slightest. Have you seen it? Unless you’re Suzie Poppins, we’re afraid your parental advisory will be ignored, because, frankly, it’s ridiculous.
Burma’s changing equations
Exactly Stephen. The regime had to change tack and so did ASSK each trying to find a way out of the impasse. International pressure did have and still has an important role to play since there is no denying that we are where we are because the regime wanted legitimacy and greater economic opportunities, the latter definitely of mutual interest to the West.
Many are optimistic about the eventual outcome; many others aren’t so sanguine. This may prove to be a slippery slope for either party, govt or opposition, albeit the arena and stratagem are chosen and planned by those in power to suit their own agenda. The dice is loaded but it all depends on the players, both international and domestic, both the leaders and the peoples of Burma.
Burma and ASEAN non-intervention
An example of ASEAN’s successful engagement of Burma in contrast to the West’s aggressive, punitive-based approach occured in the aftermath of Cyclone Nargis in 2008. While Burma’s leaders recoiled from the West’s humanitarian offers, as figures such as then Aust. PM Kevin Rudd called on the international community to ‘bash the doors down’ to deliver aid, and French FM Bernard Kouchner invoked the R2P doctrine as a foundation for justifying intervention, ASEAN, as a regional, non-threatening institution, was able to act as mediator and coordinator of aid efforts. As norms of democracy, human rights and good governance solidify within ASEAN, Burma may also become increasingly forced to accept these norms as non-negotiable.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Maratip #39
“My point is that it’s not all propaganda.”
Just keep in mind two things. First, the time dimension, that is, the decades of indoctrination from early childhood onwards, in the absence of the promotion of an alternative state model. Surely, this would affect a number of people. So, no suprise here that you saw people who just loved the whole funeral thing.
Second, those people who did turn out to the funeral, in terms of numbers, are nothing compared to those who stayed at home. I even know Thai people who are strictly against this royalist show of pomp, but nevertheless watched part of it on TV (even I myself watched it, though only for the duration of having my lunch in a small shop that had turned on the TV).
Even in provincial Thailand, celebrations of the king’s birthday are events for the officials. As state functionaries, they must perform their celebratory duties. What they think is another story. But, surely, you will hardly meet any ordinary citizens at such events.
With some embarassment, I admit that, when I was about thirteen years old, I willingly joined my class and waited at the roadside to wave at Queen Elizabeth when she drove by in an open car. These days, there are not many republican westeners who would want to have their monarchies back. But a number of them still fall for any good show, be it a royal funeral, a royal wedding (Kate is soooo cute), a concert of Madonna, or the opening ceremony of the Olympic games.
Double, double toil and trouble…
The language used in this movie — Shakespeare Must Die — arouses hatred regardless of any political leanings. It is similar to the Klu Klux Klan hate speech.
While the Thai leaders are trying to achieve the political reconciliation, this movie is working against that objective. The ulterior motive of the movie is inappropriate to the Thai political context; thus, it should be banned.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Maratjp:
“It’s my belief that this concept of a virtuous king presiding over Thailand is not only central to who the Thai people are, but something they love, and most importantly need. This society is based on higher and lower and most Thais believe that everything would simply be better with a sacred person at the very top.”
================
After watching all 10 Thai channels broadcast the endless, Las Vegas glitz, totally lame “reality tv show” of the previously unknown “Princess” funeral/cremation, I find all this pretend “devotion” and “solemnity” hard to believe. It’s more like an episode from “Survivor” where the contestant who wins is the one who can stay awake, at least keep their eyes open, the longest. Even the most ardent royalists at the event were having a hard time not nodding off as the assembled servants plodded around on their knees and prostrated themselves endlessly before the “sacred” high persons.
Good grief…..time for the Thai royalists to wake up and smell the bacon……..their over-produced and wildly over-budget show is over.
Islamic fundamentalists, Christian threats, Freudian slips
Pak Yeh # 6;
I am so relieved that you did not end the tirade with “salam/peace” after promising to “burn your ass”.
I am also glad that not all muslims are like you, always threatening violence whenever things don’t go your way. One can talk about scholarly persuit all one wants, but if the fundamental desire to “burn” someone else’s ass then the scholarship is only pretense, nothing more.
This is the kind of behavior that gives Muslims a bad name. Please have a heart and think of your Muslim brothers and sisters who have to live amongst others. Plus, please do not pretend to do Allah’s work or defend “him” Allah is al powerful and does not need “protecting”
Burma’s changing equations
The claim that “Progress did not occur in Burma because military leaders suddenly realized that they had erred. It came about precisely because of international pressure,” seems to me not only overly confident about the impact of international pressure, but misses the ways in which reforms can serve elite interests without been about any “sudden realisation that they had erred.” In this light, the changes can perhaps be better understood according to what Gramsci called the “passive revolution,” in which reforms serve “to gradually and organically change a society in such a way that [meets] the demands of the ruling class” and undercuts what are potentially more radical popular demands.
Revolutionary remains
Souvanna Phouma was never a member of the revolutionary movement. When a monument is built for Phetxarat, then we might see one for Souvanna Phouma who was a nationalist. I’m sure we won’t see statues of Savang Vatthana any time soon, because in the eyes of the current regime he was too closely associated with the American war effort and Vang Pao’s guerrilla forces. I presume that if family members have the funds they can build memorials on their own private land, as in the case of General Sounthone Pathammavong’s family. With regards to the statues of Lao kings, these are all artists impressions since we have no historic images to refer to. Due to the patriotic theming of these images the Lao public have accepted them with little debate. It will be interesting to see how people react when they see the Chinese crafted images of Sithon Kommadam and co. which are in the works at present. I remember lots of locals muttering with discontent when the images of Kaysone were unveiled. It would be interesting to know who is involved in the process of image selection when choosing the best representation of Party leaders.
Revolutionary remains
Martin,
Thank you for your input. For some odd reason, I have this thought that the Lao people still have this affection for deceased leaders. One last bit, how does Souvannaphouma fit into this revolutionary history? There is never any mention of him. Even I forget he existed at times, same with the late King Sisavang Vatthana. I guess the rewriting of history is doing it’s job.
Islamic fundamentalists, Christian threats, Freudian slips
Adam said:
Regarding the Allah issue, just because you use it as a pronoun to call your one and only God, you cannot claim ownership of the word.
Muslims have all the right to claim ownership and copyright of the word Allah.
Where in your original Bible does it say you call god Allah.???
If there is none why do you change your gods name.??
If I was your god and you changed my name I definitely would burn your ass.!!!
I am sure Christians who change their gods name would definitely be burned in their ass in hell.
You guys just blasphemed your god Yahweh and Allah by associating the trinity to a one god.
Dear Adam,
for your information ,..No Christian scholar has refuted in a debate the falacy and illogic of Christian trinity.All over youtube the illogic of trinity is disseminated.Why belief in lies(trinity) that the Bible did not say.
I am prepared to debate your most learned priests on the trinity lie.
Just drop a line at my blog.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
“Maratjp”:
“Speaking of democracy, wouldn’t it be interesting to start a campaign to have a People’s Funeral, much like the one today for Princess Bejaratana, along with the 200 million baht from the government, for Pridi Phanomyong?”
On a smaller scale than you suggest, but nevertheless rather provocative to the establishment, you have had at least one “people’s funeral” at Wat Damlu in Samut Prakan province on September 11, 2011, for Vasan Putong (the man with the flag) who was killed on April 10, 2010. His corpse was laid on a very elaborate 7 tier pagoda before being cremated. The funeral was attended by thousands maybe ten thousand Red Shirts, or more.
Naturally when you go to Sanam Luang to a royal event, you will see as you described. But to see the other side of the coin, you will have to go to other places and events (at least since Sanam Luang has been closed to political protest events).
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Srithanonchai,
“…why was it that the Red Shirts were supposed to be loyal and respectful to the king?”
Because it’s Thailand and the powers that be say that you should or else you can enjoy cracked red bean soup with a hole in the ground to relieve yourself in a cell with 50 other undesirables.
“Which begs the question of how this piece of official propaganda has found its way into the mental set-up of a Westener from a country that does not have a king.”
My point is that it’s not all propaganda. This has been my great discovery, despite myself. I went down to Sanam Luang today and I just marveled at how Thai people (not all, but dare I say majority?) just love it. The uniforms and medals, the grandeur, the solemnity, the rituals. They just can’t get enough of it it seems.
That I have come to think this way is sort of ridiculous when I think about it. But don’t confuse where I think many Thais are coming from with what I believe about power, nation, and citizenship. What I believe from my own tradition and culture is the opposite of what I have come to see in Thai culture regarding monarchy (not all Thais!).
I guess it’s why I love studying it so much. It’s just the absolute antithesis of what I believe. So no, all the monarchist propaganda in the world, despite what I have written about what I believe most Thais believe (or a hell of a lot of them), would never change my views about freedom and democracy. What it has done is made me appreciate on a much deeper level the ideals on which my nation was founded.
Speaking of democracy, wouldn’t it be interesting to start a campaign to have a People’s Funeral, much like the one today for Princess Bejaratana, along with the 200 million baht from the government, for Pridi Phanomyong?