“So, how far will the Thai paranoia go? Not only banning the phrase but also the sum “88тА│… or as in the Da Torpedo cases also the square roots and cross sums of all things 8sh?”
Coded language is already being chased down. Prachatai reported that this was a key issue in the trial of Chiranuch
“An affable police major-general, Suraphon Tuanphong, was today’s first witness for the prosecution. The major-general described himself to the court as an expert at deciphering lèse majesté from coded phrases on the Internet.”….
“The honourable judge immediately opined that ‘anyone would know’ these codewords refer to the Royals.”
The writer says ‘I don’t think the adults who knew about the
Nazi-themed parade are ignorant about the Holocaust…’
I’m not sure I agree with this bit. The Thai teaching assistant and English Dept. co-ordinator at my school had no idea about it. Sometimes Thai teachers know little more about world events/history/ politics etc. than the students that they teach.
One thing that the Foreign Ministry forgot to mention in their attack on the criticism of the students dressed as Nazis is that these students were not given 15 or 20 years jail for this indiscretion.
They were merely criticized. If only others could be content with criticizing free expression that they disagree with rather than putting people in jail for it.
You should study a bit about the detail of the case rather than simply skim trought the article. There are reasons why the guy was send to jail. First, he was making a life threat, which is illegal anywhere. Second, he was making a racist slur “in” a freakin por-Nazi website, that’s a hate speech and a hate crime. As you might aware, racism is a serious crime in US.
About the MFA members mentioning the event in Chieng Mai is a bit irony. First, the west didn’t “prohibit” the discussion about Nazi and wouldn’t send anyone to jail. The same way Harry was dressing as an SS officer in a halloween party wouldnt sent him to jail, eventhough he was under heavily criticism but that’s about it. Seriously, is that the best “come back” the creme of Thailand education could offer??
Actually the way it is depicted is not the reality.
Here is the Poem in Question:
“THE SNIPER”
“As the tyrant enters his cross hairs the breath he takes is deep
His focus is square on the target as he begins to release
A patriot for his people he knows this shot will cost his life
But for his race and their existence it is a small sacrifice
The bullet that he has chambered is one of the purest pride
And the inspiration on the casing reads DIE negro DIE
He breathes out as he pulls the trigger releasing all his hate
And a smile appears upon his face as he seals that monkey’s fate.
The bullet screams toward its mark bringing with it death
And where there was once a face there is nothing left
Two blood covered agents stare in horror and dismay
Looking down toward the ground where their president now lay
Now the screams of one old negro broad pierces thru the air
Setting off panic from every eyewitness that was there
And among all the confusion the hero calmly slips away
Laughing for he knows there will be another negro holiday
By Johnny Spencer
The defendant was belonged to a white supremist group. He declined to assert his First Amendment Rights to protected speech. Nowhere does the poem name Obama.
And note, I can read it, look at what he wrote and make my own determination as to weather or not it was offensive, if it breaches free speech, etc.
The judge felt the phrase
‘Die negro Die.’
Breached free speech and was in fact hate speech.
Since the defendant did not assert First Amendment Protections and plead guilty to one count, the arguments are moot.
Much like the defendant that waives the right to counsel or one who voluntarily admits guilt which is what this defendant did.
Further notes.
Mr Logan was a member of a white supremest group.
The poem appeared in a white supremest website NewSaxon.org, which purports to be “An Online Community by and for White Americans.”
Also note that:
Spencer appeared before U.S. Magistrate Judge Dave Whalin on Friday February 19th, 2010 for a detention hearing. Judge Whalin ordered Spencer released on $25,000 bond, but kept under house arrest at a family member’s home.
So hate speech, not protected speech. Plead Guilty. Was granted bail prior to court case.
Absolutely no similarity to current Lese Majeste cases like Gordon or Arkong.
And further that even within the United States the merits of this particular case are openly discussed and available for public review and comment.
Take for instance the following:
David Hudson, a scholar at the First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University, said the case poses a difficult question of whether Spencer’s words fall under what is known as the “true threat” exception to the First Amendment. He said the courts have held that a statement may be deemed an illegal threat against the president if a reasonable person hearing or reading it would understand it as “a serious expression of intent to inflict bodily injury.” Jurors are instructed to consider the circumstances in which the statement was made and the reactions of those likely to hear or read it.
William Sharp, a staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, which isn’t involved in the case, said: “If the government’s prosecution is predicated solely on the poem, we believe that there would be a strong argument that the poem, despite its obviously horrific and racist imagery, would be protected speech under the First Amendment. The mere fact that authors write graphically violent imagery, even if born out of racist or otherwise repugnant beliefs, does not automatically remove First Amendment protections and justify criminal prosecution.”
So any seeming similarity is at best a royalist apologists attempt to obfuscate the matter.
Seriously, can Thais go to the internet and download the content of Arkong alleged texts or see the actual evidence of Joe Gordon’s translations? Then post them on blogs, and discuss them openly and give opinions as to whether they Constitution lese majeste, criticism, or protected speech.
Is a Thai ACLU like human rights group freely discussing the matter in open?
[…] Hasan’s article ‘Refining the misconception of apostasy in Islam’ attempts to demonstrate that the ‘peace’ of Islam as he understands it does not contradict […]
Zulkifli way of thinking is typical among the muslim elites who work hand hand in hand with those in power. Make no mistake, its all about political power. We saw this demonstrated in malaysia with all this the political posturing by UMNO that ISLAM is under threat if PR comes to pwer. The truth is both sides are guilty of this. By using ISLAM as a political tool, they can control the way the masses think and behave, in the area that is most important to them, to keep the elites in power. Imagine if suddenly half of the malay population does not beleive in islam suddenly,and apostasize. What would happen? The apostates would not conform to islamic laws, would not pay zakat, would not heed UMNO or PAS’s (the ruling elites) pleading for the malays to support them, all the anti zionist and all the kafir laknat rhetoric would not work anymore, and they would instead demand for freedom, democratic reforms and action against corruptions as well as equality for everyone. THIS is what the ruling elites are really afraid of.
This story was also reported by major media outlets in a number of countries.
Ralph – 9
‘I can’t think of anyone on lese majeste having threatened the life of any royal.’ …What about da torpedo and her clips (in Thai) on youtube?
Really?…threatening US president in poem gets a jail term and calling him a prick gets the ban…but at the same time, the US ambassador was calling for ‘freedom of speech’ in another country.
We keep hearing about the peace of Islam but where is is actually in evidence? Muslims kill more other Muslims than Westerners, no doubt quite confusing for God if all sides are butchering in His name and thus absolving themselves of murder and atrocity through their self delusional divine work.
Not that Christians used to be any better. Rather absurd really, hastening people to their death because they have a different view of the afterlife, and all God’s will of course. One can only assume that religious positions of power are inhabited by sociopaths and psychopaths, and yet we are to subscribe to their interpretation of reality?
The author talks of different interpretations of peace, no doubt Hitler, Stalin etc also had their own interpretations. So we have arrived at the PC point where a massacre is not a massacre if the perpetrators do it with a song in their heart and a religious sparkle in their eye?
Will Facebook founder of Mark Zuckerberg be arrested and charged under the Lese Majeste and Computer Crimes laws on his next visit to Thailand a la Chiranuch? Quite an interesting post on the Thai Intelligence blog on this possibility. The comment thread is also worth a look:
From: No. TRCT. /2011
Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (TRCT), Government Complex, Commemorating His Majesty B Building, 5th Floor, Parking House,
Chaengwattana Road, Lak Si, Bangkok 10210
September 2011…………………..
Yours sincerely,
Kanit Nanakorn
(Prof. Kanit Nanakorn)
Chairman Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand
Secretariat
TRCT Office
Tel: 0 2141 3696
Fax: 0 2143 8935
6. TRCT is concerned with the situation pertaining to the prosecution of cases concerning the lèse majesté under Section 112 of Criminal Code and Computer Related Crime Act B.E. 2550 (2007), which apparently increase in terms of number of cases, that it could have political impact. TRCT believes that although the government has the obligation to vigorously protect the monarchy highly regarded by Thai people with the utmost
reverence from being defamed and violated by inappropriate behaviors and acts, the use of measures of criminal prosecution regardless of the criminal policy and the control guidelines for proper enforcement can implicate complicated effects at both the national level during the political conflict and the international level which places importance on the freedom of expression.
At present, the political development and the enforcement of lèse majesté in Thailand phenomenally become the issues of interest for the United Nations, international organizations relating to human rights, and several countries.
Consequently, TRCT conceives the use of lèse majesté during this period is directly related to political conflict inside the country. The appropriate solution of this problem will result in a positive effect to the monarchy and play a significant role in mitigating the conflict of the country to help achieve reconciliation. In this respect, TRCT is of the opinion that it should be proceeded as follows:
Protect monarchy but don’t be excessive
6.1 In this sensitive situation, TRCT opines that the government must proceed in every way by taking cognizance of the final goal, which is the protection and respectfulness of the monarchy to maintain its status with the most exalted honor. The government should strictly and stringently proceed against those who defame and violate with malice against the monarchy but should not excessively impose criminal measures without direction and regard to the sensitivity of the case, which could subsequently affect the monarchy domestically and internationally.
Stakeholders to be invited to share opinions and develop mutually acceptable solutions
6.2 All parties involved in the conflict must proceed in every way to express their reverence to hold the monarchy above political conflict and stop referring to the monarchy for political advantage either directly or indirectly. A pertinent solution of the problem at its root cause could be done by the serious discussion among relevant politicians, political parties, and political groups to determine appropriate measures which will result in holding the revered monarchy above political conflict.
Better overall categorization and case definition
6.3 The government should provide for the unity and integration of agencies involving the enforcement of law concerning lèse majesté cases. They should have a mechanism with a capability to determine appropriate criminal policy and to categorize the cases by considering the degree of the behavior, intention, motivation for the commission, status of the perpetrator, and overall context of the situation leading to the commission.
The actual problem situation in the Thai society in the present time should be taken into consideration that the political conflict like this has never happened before as there is an attempt to take the unfaithfulness against the monarchy as a political issue. All parties must essentially take into account the highest advantage from presenting the utmost honor to the monarchy.
Public interest aspect, but not addressing international public interest
6.4 With regard to the prosecution of lèse majesté cases, the prosecutor, who has an important role in using discretion whether to prosecute or not, should put emphasis on a means for ordering cases by using discretion (Opportunity Principle), which is a universal power of the prosecutor. Although there is adequate evidence for prosecution order, the prosecutor must place importance on weighing the advantages and disadvantages of the prosecution, taking into account the public interest in essence. In this case, the issue the prosecutor must consider is which way between to order prosecution and not to order prosecution is highly beneficial for protecting and presenting the honor appropriately to the monarchy. This means is used in the countries which have the monarchy such as the Netherlands.
Temporary release of accused persons and defendants
6.5 The government should arrange for the temporary release of accused persons and defendants in lèse majesté cases since the severe accusation is not a legal reason for denying the right to temporary release of accused persons and defendants, which is the fundamental right under the law. This could be seen in the case that the court has granted the temporary release in other cases which have a higher scale of punishment than the lèse majesté case such as a charge of murder, which the court has usually granted the temporary release, which is a fundamental right.
Review lese majesté cases related to political matters
6.6 The government should consider reviewing the prosecution of cases which expand the issue of lèse majesté law to a large extent during the political conflict such as the accusation and the propaganda on the conspiracy to “overthrow the monarchy”. In this respect, the interpretation of the law might be too broad to affect the reconciliation in the nation and adversely affect the protection of the monarchy. The further prosecution must be undertaken by considering the explicit evidence regarding specific individual behaviors to prove guilt in accordance with the rule of law.
“Yingluck’s Government’s lese majeste…” #34, (PPT list) is interesting but if we read carefully it expresses an underlying caution about being too quick to lay blame. Some “hardcore”/ seasoned /red shirts regularly express their views each night on media such as Voice or DNN…etc. and two leaders said that they are not worried because the target is actually (and seemingly –paradoxically) yellow shirts, their short-wave media and public street-speak. This could be a tactic of Chalerm –who has also recently exposed who was behind the killing of Saedaeng last year (a group of Newin’s black-shirt special police who are working for the amaat from Isan centres; same mob at Pattaya Summit/Blue shirts). A number of red shirt activists suggest that the more we attack PTP right now the more it will benefit the amaat. Also, red shirt web sites have not been touched. So we must wait and see, at the same time exert continued and reasonable pressure on the government to carry out its mandate…
Something is surely going on beneath the surface.
RE:- Thai students demonstrating Freedom of expression and Nazism.
‘Freedom of expression’ implies that, when the schoolchildren wore the Nazi costumes, marched the goose-step and did their dances/chants etc… they knew and understood exactly what their uniforms and the Nazi insignia represented.
If the Foreign Office of Thailand really believes that this was the case, and supports their rights to do so, that is scary.
In December 2006, when I was working at a bi-lingual school in BKK, students in the red house decided to use ‘Nazism’ as their sports day theme. The English teachers arrived at school to see that one of the spectator stands had 3 giant swastikas above it. The students wore Nazi uniforms and one of their chants included a badly pronounced version of ‘heil Hitler…’ When we complained to the Thai staff about how culturally inappropriate their theme was, we were told not to think too much, and not to be worried about it. It was ‘fun.’
Afterwards, the 2 teachers who taught M4-6 (the older students responsible for choosing the sports day theme/designing the costumes/dances etc…) decided to spend a couple of lessons teaching their students about WW2, what the Nazis did, and why Nazism is, to most westerners still repugnant.
When the students learnt what the costumes they had wore represented most were very upset. Some cried in class. Others apologised for upsetting the teachers.
I wonder how those students would react now, if they were told that the costumes they wore back then were a demonstration of Thai ‘freedom of expression’ They’d probably be horrified…
If you limit yourself to the perspective that Jim Taylor does in 32, and throughout, it makes a certain fatalistic sense. Go through life’s motions, try to appease the grim reaper, grimly accept death with righteousness.
But it seems to me that there is no hope in playing their game on their court. Literally on their court.
The only game changer that Yingluk has on her side is the power of the people. Publicly, explicitly defining exactly what she is up against before the people and asking for their help with a program of step-by-step resistance to the powers arrayed against the people and transformation of society and politics is her best bet, certainly the peoples’ best bet :
The entrenched elite resent our victory and assumption of power and are going to do everything they can to bring us down. I propose that we not let them do that, that we follow the reasonable course suggested by the Nitirat, that we roll back to the solid ground before the illegal seizure of power by the Royal Thai Army in 2006 and that we redo the decisions taken since.
That means that my brother Thaksin as well as the mutinous generals and those who ordered the massacre of Thais in the spring of 2010 will all have to answer whatever charges are brought against them.
That means that other outstanding “unsolved” crimes such as the disappearance of Somchai Neelaphijit and Phra Supoj Suwacano must be solved, and in real time, not bureaucratic time.
That means that those found to have committed crimes must be brought account. That past practices of immunity be ended.
That means that the reinstated 1997 Constitution must be amended to enable real decentralization of power to the villages, amphoe and jangwats to take place, so that the problems of the South, for instance can be met head on and struggled with by those directly involved. So that the development of our land and people can proceed throughout the kingdom, directed by the people directly affected, and not just by those in Bangkok, by the ‘elite’.
That means that free speech must be embraced and political prisoners, especially including those imprisoned on grounds of lese majeste, must be freed and the laws that enabled their persecution emended.
That’s where this government is going and we will need all of those who sent us here to stand by us now, or we will be defeated by the reactionary forces of the ‘elite’, and the long dark night of quasi-military rule will descend again upon Thailand, as it has over Burma next door.
This is the moment of truth. What do you want for the future of Thailand. If we stand together we can have what we want. If we do not, we cannot.
In for a penny, in for a pound. Dance with the ones who brought you to the ball.
The problem is that Yingluk’s own vision for Thailand may be more nearly that of the ‘elite’ than of the people.
I think the students dressing up like nazi’s is really interesting.. its almost like a peak into the collective Thai subconscious, sort of like a freudian slip with relation to a personified state subject, that references the very similar structure of absolutist and military government that has appeared throughout history in Thailand. And as many of you know the first ‘external enemy’ of the Thai Nation state, before communism or globalization, was the western ‘colonialist’ powers during the Chulalongkorn era, possibly representing the association with Hitler because, after all, he was the one who challenged the west.
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Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
HowLowCanWeGo c.8
“So, how far will the Thai paranoia go? Not only banning the phrase but also the sum “88тА│… or as in the Da Torpedo cases also the square roots and cross sums of all things 8sh?”
Coded language is already being chased down. Prachatai reported that this was a key issue in the trial of Chiranuch
“An affable police major-general, Suraphon Tuanphong, was today’s first witness for the prosecution. The major-general described himself to the court as an expert at deciphering lèse majesté from coded phrases on the Internet.”….
“The honourable judge immediately opined that ‘anyone would know’ these codewords refer to the Royals.”
http://www.prachatai3.info/english/node/2741
But of course not everyone does know and one could use a phrase or a word innocently and find that somebody has interpreted it as lese majeste.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Georio…
Your thinking isn’t as crazy as you think…
BKK post editorial from a couple of months ago…
http://www.bangkokpost.com/blogs/index.php/2011/10/04/nazism-in-our-brainwashed-upbringing?blog=64
The writer says ‘I don’t think the adults who knew about the
Nazi-themed parade are ignorant about the Holocaust…’
I’m not sure I agree with this bit. The Thai teaching assistant and English Dept. co-ordinator at my school had no idea about it. Sometimes Thai teachers know little more about world events/history/ politics etc. than the students that they teach.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
One thing that the Foreign Ministry forgot to mention in their attack on the criticism of the students dressed as Nazis is that these students were not given 15 or 20 years jail for this indiscretion.
They were merely criticized. If only others could be content with criticizing free expression that they disagree with rather than putting people in jail for it.
Another academic victim of 112
Very impressed with Yingluck’s speech written by John Francis Lee and would love to see it in Thai.
When does she plan to deliver it?
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Nawat 6, 13
You should study a bit about the detail of the case rather than simply skim trought the article. There are reasons why the guy was send to jail. First, he was making a life threat, which is illegal anywhere. Second, he was making a racist slur “in” a freakin por-Nazi website, that’s a hate speech and a hate crime. As you might aware, racism is a serious crime in US.
About the MFA members mentioning the event in Chieng Mai is a bit irony. First, the west didn’t “prohibit” the discussion about Nazi and wouldn’t send anyone to jail. The same way Harry was dressing as an SS officer in a halloween party wouldnt sent him to jail, eventhough he was under heavily criticism but that’s about it. Seriously, is that the best “come back” the creme of Thailand education could offer??
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Actually the way it is depicted is not the reality.
Here is the Poem in Question:
“THE SNIPER”
“As the tyrant enters his cross hairs the breath he takes is deep
His focus is square on the target as he begins to release
A patriot for his people he knows this shot will cost his life
But for his race and their existence it is a small sacrifice
The bullet that he has chambered is one of the purest pride
And the inspiration on the casing reads DIE negro DIE
He breathes out as he pulls the trigger releasing all his hate
And a smile appears upon his face as he seals that monkey’s fate.
The bullet screams toward its mark bringing with it death
And where there was once a face there is nothing left
Two blood covered agents stare in horror and dismay
Looking down toward the ground where their president now lay
Now the screams of one old negro broad pierces thru the air
Setting off panic from every eyewitness that was there
And among all the confusion the hero calmly slips away
Laughing for he knows there will be another negro holiday
By Johnny Spencer
The defendant was belonged to a white supremist group. He declined to assert his First Amendment Rights to protected speech. Nowhere does the poem name Obama.
And note, I can read it, look at what he wrote and make my own determination as to weather or not it was offensive, if it breaches free speech, etc.
The judge felt the phrase
‘Die negro Die.’
Breached free speech and was in fact hate speech.
Since the defendant did not assert First Amendment Protections and plead guilty to one count, the arguments are moot.
Much like the defendant that waives the right to counsel or one who voluntarily admits guilt which is what this defendant did.
Further notes.
Mr Logan was a member of a white supremest group.
The poem appeared in a white supremest website NewSaxon.org, which purports to be “An Online Community by and for White Americans.”
Also note that:
Spencer appeared before U.S. Magistrate Judge Dave Whalin on Friday February 19th, 2010 for a detention hearing. Judge Whalin ordered Spencer released on $25,000 bond, but kept under house arrest at a family member’s home.
So hate speech, not protected speech. Plead Guilty. Was granted bail prior to court case.
Absolutely no similarity to current Lese Majeste cases like Gordon or Arkong.
And further that even within the United States the merits of this particular case are openly discussed and available for public review and comment.
Take for instance the following:
David Hudson, a scholar at the First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University, said the case poses a difficult question of whether Spencer’s words fall under what is known as the “true threat” exception to the First Amendment. He said the courts have held that a statement may be deemed an illegal threat against the president if a reasonable person hearing or reading it would understand it as “a serious expression of intent to inflict bodily injury.” Jurors are instructed to consider the circumstances in which the statement was made and the reactions of those likely to hear or read it.
William Sharp, a staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, which isn’t involved in the case, said: “If the government’s prosecution is predicated solely on the poem, we believe that there would be a strong argument that the poem, despite its obviously horrific and racist imagery, would be protected speech under the First Amendment. The mere fact that authors write graphically violent imagery, even if born out of racist or otherwise repugnant beliefs, does not automatically remove First Amendment protections and justify criminal prosecution.”
http://whitereference.blogspot.com/2010/02/johnny-logan-spencer-latest-thought.html
So any seeming similarity is at best a royalist apologists attempt to obfuscate the matter.
Seriously, can Thais go to the internet and download the content of Arkong alleged texts or see the actual evidence of Joe Gordon’s translations? Then post them on blogs, and discuss them openly and give opinions as to whether they Constitution lese majeste, criticism, or protected speech.
Is a Thai ACLU like human rights group freely discussing the matter in open?
Cambodia’s rice conundrum
[…] Cambodia’s rice conundrum. […]
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Thank you Nawat – you have encapsulated the Thai mindset beautifully ….
Refining the misconception of apostasy in Islam
[…] Hasan’s article ‘Refining the misconception of apostasy in Islam’ attempts to demonstrate that the ‘peace’ of Islam as he understands it does not contradict […]
Reckoning the peace/violence ambiguity in the apostasy debate
Zulkifli way of thinking is typical among the muslim elites who work hand hand in hand with those in power. Make no mistake, its all about political power. We saw this demonstrated in malaysia with all this the political posturing by UMNO that ISLAM is under threat if PR comes to pwer. The truth is both sides are guilty of this. By using ISLAM as a political tool, they can control the way the masses think and behave, in the area that is most important to them, to keep the elites in power. Imagine if suddenly half of the malay population does not beleive in islam suddenly,and apostasize. What would happen? The apostates would not conform to islamic laws, would not pay zakat, would not heed UMNO or PAS’s (the ruling elites) pleading for the malays to support them, all the anti zionist and all the kafir laknat rhetoric would not work anymore, and they would instead demand for freedom, democratic reforms and action against corruptions as well as equality for everyone. THIS is what the ruling elites are really afraid of.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Anouvong – 10
I think it’s too convenient to blame it on tabloid paper. The Australian also reported this and cited The Time as their source:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/us-ban-for-schoolboy-luke-angel-who-insulted-barack-obama/story-e6frg6so-1225924234197
This story was also reported by major media outlets in a number of countries.
Ralph – 9
‘I can’t think of anyone on lese majeste having threatened the life of any royal.’ …What about da torpedo and her clips (in Thai) on youtube?
Really?…threatening US president in poem gets a jail term and calling him a prick gets the ban…but at the same time, the US ambassador was calling for ‘freedom of speech’ in another country.
Reckoning the peace/violence ambiguity in the apostasy debate
We keep hearing about the peace of Islam but where is is actually in evidence? Muslims kill more other Muslims than Westerners, no doubt quite confusing for God if all sides are butchering in His name and thus absolving themselves of murder and atrocity through their self delusional divine work.
Not that Christians used to be any better. Rather absurd really, hastening people to their death because they have a different view of the afterlife, and all God’s will of course. One can only assume that religious positions of power are inhabited by sociopaths and psychopaths, and yet we are to subscribe to their interpretation of reality?
The author talks of different interpretations of peace, no doubt Hitler, Stalin etc also had their own interpretations. So we have arrived at the PC point where a massacre is not a massacre if the perpetrators do it with a song in their heart and a religious sparkle in their eye?
Another academic victim of 112
For as long as I know, Bhumibol’s wikipedia page has been blocked in Thailand. It is not anymore.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Will Facebook founder of Mark Zuckerberg be arrested and charged under the Lese Majeste and Computer Crimes laws on his next visit to Thailand a la Chiranuch? Quite an interesting post on the Thai Intelligence blog on this possibility. The comment thread is also worth a look:
http://goo.gl/arRUO
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
A bit in the past, but pertinent suggestions…
From: No. TRCT. /2011
Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (TRCT), Government Complex, Commemorating His Majesty B Building, 5th Floor, Parking House,
Chaengwattana Road, Lak Si, Bangkok 10210
September 2011…………………..
Yours sincerely,
Kanit Nanakorn
(Prof. Kanit Nanakorn)
Chairman Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand
Secretariat
TRCT Office
Tel: 0 2141 3696
Fax: 0 2143 8935
6. TRCT is concerned with the situation pertaining to the prosecution of cases concerning the lèse majesté under Section 112 of Criminal Code and Computer Related Crime Act B.E. 2550 (2007), which apparently increase in terms of number of cases, that it could have political impact. TRCT believes that although the government has the obligation to vigorously protect the monarchy highly regarded by Thai people with the utmost
reverence from being defamed and violated by inappropriate behaviors and acts, the use of measures of criminal prosecution regardless of the criminal policy and the control guidelines for proper enforcement can implicate complicated effects at both the national level during the political conflict and the international level which places importance on the freedom of expression.
At present, the political development and the enforcement of lèse majesté in Thailand phenomenally become the issues of interest for the United Nations, international organizations relating to human rights, and several countries.
Consequently, TRCT conceives the use of lèse majesté during this period is directly related to political conflict inside the country. The appropriate solution of this problem will result in a positive effect to the monarchy and play a significant role in mitigating the conflict of the country to help achieve reconciliation. In this respect, TRCT is of the opinion that it should be proceeded as follows:
Protect monarchy but don’t be excessive
6.1 In this sensitive situation, TRCT opines that the government must proceed in every way by taking cognizance of the final goal, which is the protection and respectfulness of the monarchy to maintain its status with the most exalted honor. The government should strictly and stringently proceed against those who defame and violate with malice against the monarchy but should not excessively impose criminal measures without direction and regard to the sensitivity of the case, which could subsequently affect the monarchy domestically and internationally.
Stakeholders to be invited to share opinions and develop mutually acceptable solutions
6.2 All parties involved in the conflict must proceed in every way to express their reverence to hold the monarchy above political conflict and stop referring to the monarchy for political advantage either directly or indirectly. A pertinent solution of the problem at its root cause could be done by the serious discussion among relevant politicians, political parties, and political groups to determine appropriate measures which will result in holding the revered monarchy above political conflict.
Better overall categorization and case definition
6.3 The government should provide for the unity and integration of agencies involving the enforcement of law concerning lèse majesté cases. They should have a mechanism with a capability to determine appropriate criminal policy and to categorize the cases by considering the degree of the behavior, intention, motivation for the commission, status of the perpetrator, and overall context of the situation leading to the commission.
The actual problem situation in the Thai society in the present time should be taken into consideration that the political conflict like this has never happened before as there is an attempt to take the unfaithfulness against the monarchy as a political issue. All parties must essentially take into account the highest advantage from presenting the utmost honor to the monarchy.
Public interest aspect, but not addressing international public interest
6.4 With regard to the prosecution of lèse majesté cases, the prosecutor, who has an important role in using discretion whether to prosecute or not, should put emphasis on a means for ordering cases by using discretion (Opportunity Principle), which is a universal power of the prosecutor. Although there is adequate evidence for prosecution order, the prosecutor must place importance on weighing the advantages and disadvantages of the prosecution, taking into account the public interest in essence. In this case, the issue the prosecutor must consider is which way between to order prosecution and not to order prosecution is highly beneficial for protecting and presenting the honor appropriately to the monarchy. This means is used in the countries which have the monarchy such as the Netherlands.
Temporary release of accused persons and defendants
6.5 The government should arrange for the temporary release of accused persons and defendants in lèse majesté cases since the severe accusation is not a legal reason for denying the right to temporary release of accused persons and defendants, which is the fundamental right under the law. This could be seen in the case that the court has granted the temporary release in other cases which have a higher scale of punishment than the lèse majesté case such as a charge of murder, which the court has usually granted the temporary release, which is a fundamental right.
Review lese majesté cases related to political matters
6.6 The government should consider reviewing the prosecution of cases which expand the issue of lèse majesté law to a large extent during the political conflict such as the accusation and the propaganda on the conspiracy to “overthrow the monarchy”. In this respect, the interpretation of the law might be too broad to affect the reconciliation in the nation and adversely affect the protection of the monarchy. The further prosecution must be undertaken by considering the explicit evidence regarding specific individual behaviors to prove guilt in accordance with the rule of law.
Another academic victim of 112
“Yingluck’s Government’s lese majeste…” #34, (PPT list) is interesting but if we read carefully it expresses an underlying caution about being too quick to lay blame. Some “hardcore”/ seasoned /red shirts regularly express their views each night on media such as Voice or DNN…etc. and two leaders said that they are not worried because the target is actually (and seemingly –paradoxically) yellow shirts, their short-wave media and public street-speak. This could be a tactic of Chalerm –who has also recently exposed who was behind the killing of Saedaeng last year (a group of Newin’s black-shirt special police who are working for the amaat from Isan centres; same mob at Pattaya Summit/Blue shirts). A number of red shirt activists suggest that the more we attack PTP right now the more it will benefit the amaat. Also, red shirt web sites have not been touched. So we must wait and see, at the same time exert continued and reasonable pressure on the government to carry out its mandate…
Something is surely going on beneath the surface.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Nawat:-
‘I guess farangs are good at criticising others but they must be blind when it comes to their own.’
For a very detailed criticism of your line of arguement see…
http://www.newmandala.org/2011/12/12/new-mandala-cowardly-stupid-and-lacking-in-wisdom/
RE:- Thai students demonstrating Freedom of expression and Nazism.
‘Freedom of expression’ implies that, when the schoolchildren wore the Nazi costumes, marched the goose-step and did their dances/chants etc… they knew and understood exactly what their uniforms and the Nazi insignia represented.
If the Foreign Office of Thailand really believes that this was the case, and supports their rights to do so, that is scary.
In December 2006, when I was working at a bi-lingual school in BKK, students in the red house decided to use ‘Nazism’ as their sports day theme. The English teachers arrived at school to see that one of the spectator stands had 3 giant swastikas above it. The students wore Nazi uniforms and one of their chants included a badly pronounced version of ‘heil Hitler…’ When we complained to the Thai staff about how culturally inappropriate their theme was, we were told not to think too much, and not to be worried about it. It was ‘fun.’
Afterwards, the 2 teachers who taught M4-6 (the older students responsible for choosing the sports day theme/designing the costumes/dances etc…) decided to spend a couple of lessons teaching their students about WW2, what the Nazis did, and why Nazism is, to most westerners still repugnant.
When the students learnt what the costumes they had wore represented most were very upset. Some cried in class. Others apologised for upsetting the teachers.
I wonder how those students would react now, if they were told that the costumes they wore back then were a demonstration of Thai ‘freedom of expression’ They’d probably be horrified…
Another academic victim of 112
If you limit yourself to the perspective that Jim Taylor does in 32, and throughout, it makes a certain fatalistic sense. Go through life’s motions, try to appease the grim reaper, grimly accept death with righteousness.
But it seems to me that there is no hope in playing their game on their court. Literally on their court.
The only game changer that Yingluk has on her side is the power of the people. Publicly, explicitly defining exactly what she is up against before the people and asking for their help with a program of step-by-step resistance to the powers arrayed against the people and transformation of society and politics is her best bet, certainly the peoples’ best bet :
In for a penny, in for a pound. Dance with the ones who brought you to the ball.
The problem is that Yingluk’s own vision for Thailand may be more nearly that of the ‘elite’ than of the people.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
I think the students dressing up like nazi’s is really interesting.. its almost like a peak into the collective Thai subconscious, sort of like a freudian slip with relation to a personified state subject, that references the very similar structure of absolutist and military government that has appeared throughout history in Thailand. And as many of you know the first ‘external enemy’ of the Thai Nation state, before communism or globalization, was the western ‘colonialist’ powers during the Chulalongkorn era, possibly representing the association with Hitler because, after all, he was the one who challenged the west.
But then again I’m probably just crazy.
Another academic victim of 112
Thanks Donatella.
Yes please do read : http://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/165havel.html