To a person like who was a fan of both Yingluck and Sukhumbhand, I find it hard to defend both of them. When the Governor comes out with statements like Evacuate! and Leave the City!, honestly it does feel outrageous, and anger-provoking.
Evacuation isn’t a word to be used so lightly. We’re talking about 12 million people, Evacuate to where, precisely? Also his aggressive and uncooperative attitude doesn’t help. Trying to steal the spotlight, or beat the FROC to the punch as far as news announcements, etc., this all leaves a sour taste. Just like the Americans did when they played politics with the country’s Creditworthiness, the Thais are simply playing politics with this.
As for Yingluck, although her re-conciliatory attempt is clearly visible, but for a situation such as this, clearly one needs to be able to take control, even if it may not be her nature/character, but nonetheless its her job.
Oh, earlier it also didn’t help, when the army generals all demanded for a ‘State of Emergency’, in order for them to be able to do their jobs. This is clearly a ‘spoilt-childlike’ country, in many ways.
I write english very weakly. but I disappoint in my primanister very much. I hope she can do more resposible for people. But she did not do anything in this crisis, even I cheer her faminine. but I feel more suffer for my chioce.
Managing people is hard, but managing water isn’t exactly easy: last year Thailand saw 230 dead from nation-wide flooding AND the worst drought in 20 years.
Vichai N 25:
you will be more furiated to know that there is a chance that your donation will be claimed by MPs from PT party as theirs. Pictures in several FB showed a tag with the name of MPs from PT party appeared along the military truck loaded with donation for the flooding victims (even on donation bags). While, the spokeperson of FROC explained that all things plus the truck were given by the MPs themself not from the FROC (which of course came from Bkk people both stuffs and labor). But see how a civilian (MP) can have the military truck to carry his donation from the FROC HQ? http://www.facebook.com/flood54?sk=wall#!/flood54?sk=wall&filter=1n
The content is in Thai and likely to be consored by FROC just like the http://www.Thaiflood.com was.
Also picture showed “with help from ex-PM Thaksin Chinawatr” on the side of the boats.
I felt sorry for the volunteers that all their hard work in packing things up and Bkk people who donate a huge of nessesary things for the flooding victims were taken advatage by these guys.
@phktresident: I couldn’t agree with you more. In fact none of the deputy prime ministers really seems to have Yingluck’s back. Yongyuth has not been proactive in the relief effort. He’s interior minister and really should take charge of the operations. Chumpol is nowhere to be found. Kittirat came into the scene only to standby and watch industrial parks submerged. Chalerm is not only doing nothing, but would at times be sabotaging the flood efforts. The fact that Yingluck just does not have the authority to even get her own deputy PMs on board is truly disappointing.
Vichai N: Good luck with your personal battle with the water. I appreciate your comments on the floods and government. It seems to me that you have shown considerable political even-handedness in this, and it makes your commentary especially powerful.
The two channels are government and military. Question is, who refused?
I have to say that the majority of contradictory statements I have heard and seen have been from the media. As during the red shirt protests, rumour via FB and Twitter seems to be used by the mainstream media as fact.
1975? 1962?
I think that to understand the history of modern Laos I think is necessary to go back to the split of the Lan Xan Kingdom or, at least to the arrival of the French.
Beside Evans and Pholsena, I would also recommend, of course, Stuart Fox.
A book I would recommend to everybody interested in Lao history is “The politics of heroin in South East Asia”. Through the subject of the opium and heroin gives a general overview of the complicated modern history of, not only of laos but all the Indochina countries (which of course is interrelated).
Curiously there is not apparent censorship on foreign books in Laos, the only problem is that books are very expensive in this part of the world.
One wonders what “substantial help” the USS Geo Washington with its crew of 5000 and fearsome arsenal of destructive weapons could give?
Certainly they could have gone in Israeli style and bombed all the watergates that the BMA was failing to open. Perhaps this offer got the Yes from the military and No from the BKK Governor?
With close to 20 million people in the stew of the flood, how could even 5000 well intentioned sailors make a difference?
US help offered really amounts to little more than a Green-Washing effort to hide the fact that Bangkok has for decades assiduosly followed the US model of highway building for the benefit of the 1% and to the detriment of the 99% who could breathe easy if, say the European or even the Soviet model had been followed.
It really is too much to expect politicians to actually know what they are doing, but at least they should look like they know what they are doing, a lesson learned by Queensland’s Premier but lost on Australia’s PM.
At which point did what cabinet member disappear from the government’s announcements? I suggest this as the basis for the official scoring system of who’s doin’ the job for the people and who’s not. My information is far from comprehensive but what I have, put painstakingly into tabular form, shows that Chalerm was the 1st to have nothing to say; Yongyuth said nothing and looked progressively more silent as he sat beside the PM until he no longer sat beside her; is that Pracha also saying nothing but still taking notes in the pictures; Plodprasob remains at the other end of the scale, but now quiet about looking for 74,800 and some more boats to carry out his best idea.
Somewhat ambiguous is what the article calls messages from the “Bangkok government.”
Did the US DoD official literally mean the BMA government? Or the did the team of US Marines liaise with counterparts in the Thai military, in which case was it the Thai military that gave the conflicting signals? Or did the military say one thing and the FROC say something else… and who said what?
In any case, who cares… the deadline is damning enough.
The floods had reached my soi last night. The water came in quickly and by midnight, the soi (already with higher elevation than nearby sois and main road) was knee deep in water. So far the meter high sandbags protecting my gate has succeeded to hold off the water from invading my home.
But I am preparing to completely evacuate today, for higher groun upcountry probably to Chaam. The government pronouncements are very persuasive, warning of water and electric services being cutoff ‘soon. Water rising in my soi also mean my toilet won’t be working . . . and that’s going to be messy.
But I am feeling satisfied that I have given ‘ample’ donations in money and in bountiful dry goods to those in need. I drove my wagon full of dry goods to Don Muang center, and inspite of the mess, my donations were promptly received without fuss (I appreciate that ‘no fuss’ reception, mind you.) I did note the mountains of bottled water, rice bags, ‘cooked’ food in plastic bags etc., and assortments of goods everywhere (small mountains of sanitary napkins, toilet papers, mosquito repellents . . . etc).
But I am infuriated to read of the Yingluck government’s shining bungling by declining the substantial USA offer of help:
” . . . The US Navy has withdrawn several ships sent to help with relief efforts in flood-hit Thailand after receiving “mixed” messages from the Bangkok government, a defense official said Monday.
The USS George Washington aircraft carrier and other ships were deployed to the area on October 16 for potential disaster relief work as Thailand faced massive flooding from monsoon rains, said Navy spokesman Lieutenant Commander John Perkins.
But the US military never received a formal request from the Thai government and the three-ship aircraft carrier group along with a fourth ship, the USS Kidd, were released and left the area on Friday, said Perkins, spokesman for the US Pacific Fleet based in Hawaii.
“We are ready to help but we haven’t got a request,” said a US defense official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
“There were two channels (in the Thai government),” the defense official told AFP. “One was saying ‘Yes’ and one was saying ‘No.’”
. . . .
Surely Bangkok Pundit, Andrew Spooner, or New Mandala bloggers could explain that this was no Yingluck government usual f….up.
“(fortunately, many people hid them away in the bottom of draws or cupboards)”. There is actually a large amount of old books printed before 1975 sold at books stores in Vienchan. Although there quite expensive, well worth it. Especially, for those Lao who grew up abroad.
In a situation of utter turmoil, such as the case of present day Malaysia,there will arise an individual, humble in origin,resolute in commitment who will turn the tide against corruption,nepotism,cronism,etc.,etc
That person has come and dare I say that it is a woman, who will conquer all adversity…She is DATO AMBIGAI.
My prayers are with you!!!!
Dear Ms Sreenevasan,please can we have another Bersih soon,coz I believe that it has to happen constantly just to drum it into that thick skull of the Umno/Bn GOM,thanks for all your sacrifices,you are truly a Malaysian hero,n i really mean it,God Bless N Godspeed to you
I agree that Grant Evan`s book remains a crucial text in the study of contemporary Laos. I would add that Vatthana Pholsena`s book of 2006 provides additional incites of great significance.
“In the past we had wetlands and forests which helped absorb floods upstream, but much of that has gone now,” said Hannarong Yaowalert, chairman of the Foundation for Integrated Water Resources Management in Bangkok. “But today the wetlands are used for growing rice, and sometimes three crops a year instead of two crops like before. The authorities divert larger amounts of water further and further downstream.”
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Managing people harder than managing water
To a person like who was a fan of both Yingluck and Sukhumbhand, I find it hard to defend both of them. When the Governor comes out with statements like Evacuate! and Leave the City!, honestly it does feel outrageous, and anger-provoking.
Evacuation isn’t a word to be used so lightly. We’re talking about 12 million people, Evacuate to where, precisely? Also his aggressive and uncooperative attitude doesn’t help. Trying to steal the spotlight, or beat the FROC to the punch as far as news announcements, etc., this all leaves a sour taste. Just like the Americans did when they played politics with the country’s Creditworthiness, the Thais are simply playing politics with this.
As for Yingluck, although her re-conciliatory attempt is clearly visible, but for a situation such as this, clearly one needs to be able to take control, even if it may not be her nature/character, but nonetheless its her job.
Oh, earlier it also didn’t help, when the army generals all demanded for a ‘State of Emergency’, in order for them to be able to do their jobs. This is clearly a ‘spoilt-childlike’ country, in many ways.
Managing people harder than managing water
I write english very weakly. but I disappoint in my primanister very much. I hope she can do more resposible for people. But she did not do anything in this crisis, even I cheer her faminine. but I feel more suffer for my chioce.
Managing people harder than managing water
Managing people is hard, but managing water isn’t exactly easy: last year Thailand saw 230 dead from nation-wide flooding AND the worst drought in 20 years.
Floods, hacks and the Nitirat effect
Vichai N 25:
you will be more furiated to know that there is a chance that your donation will be claimed by MPs from PT party as theirs. Pictures in several FB showed a tag with the name of MPs from PT party appeared along the military truck loaded with donation for the flooding victims (even on donation bags). While, the spokeperson of FROC explained that all things plus the truck were given by the MPs themself not from the FROC (which of course came from Bkk people both stuffs and labor). But see how a civilian (MP) can have the military truck to carry his donation from the FROC HQ?
http://www.facebook.com/flood54?sk=wall#!/flood54?sk=wall&filter=1n
The content is in Thai and likely to be consored by FROC just like the http://www.Thaiflood.com was.
Also picture showed “with help from ex-PM Thaksin Chinawatr” on the side of the boats.
I felt sorry for the volunteers that all their hard work in packing things up and Bkk people who donate a huge of nessesary things for the flooding victims were taken advatage by these guys.
Managing people harder than managing water
@phktresident: I couldn’t agree with you more. In fact none of the deputy prime ministers really seems to have Yingluck’s back. Yongyuth has not been proactive in the relief effort. He’s interior minister and really should take charge of the operations. Chumpol is nowhere to be found. Kittirat came into the scene only to standby and watch industrial parks submerged. Chalerm is not only doing nothing, but would at times be sabotaging the flood efforts. The fact that Yingluck just does not have the authority to even get her own deputy PMs on board is truly disappointing.
Floods, hacks and the Nitirat effect
Vichai N: Good luck with your personal battle with the water. I appreciate your comments on the floods and government. It seems to me that you have shown considerable political even-handedness in this, and it makes your commentary especially powerful.
The two channels are government and military. Question is, who refused?
Managing people harder than managing water
I have to say that the majority of contradictory statements I have heard and seen have been from the media. As during the red shirt protests, rumour via FB and Twitter seems to be used by the mainstream media as fact.
Starting points: Laos in 1975
1975? 1962?
I think that to understand the history of modern Laos I think is necessary to go back to the split of the Lan Xan Kingdom or, at least to the arrival of the French.
Beside Evans and Pholsena, I would also recommend, of course, Stuart Fox.
A book I would recommend to everybody interested in Lao history is “The politics of heroin in South East Asia”. Through the subject of the opium and heroin gives a general overview of the complicated modern history of, not only of laos but all the Indochina countries (which of course is interrelated).
Curiously there is not apparent censorship on foreign books in Laos, the only problem is that books are very expensive in this part of the world.
Floods, hacks and the Nitirat effect
One wonders what “substantial help” the USS Geo Washington with its crew of 5000 and fearsome arsenal of destructive weapons could give?
Certainly they could have gone in Israeli style and bombed all the watergates that the BMA was failing to open. Perhaps this offer got the Yes from the military and No from the BKK Governor?
With close to 20 million people in the stew of the flood, how could even 5000 well intentioned sailors make a difference?
US help offered really amounts to little more than a Green-Washing effort to hide the fact that Bangkok has for decades assiduosly followed the US model of highway building for the benefit of the 1% and to the detriment of the 99% who could breathe easy if, say the European or even the Soviet model had been followed.
Managing people harder than managing water
It really is too much to expect politicians to actually know what they are doing, but at least they should look like they know what they are doing, a lesson learned by Queensland’s Premier but lost on Australia’s PM.
Managing people harder than managing water
At which point did what cabinet member disappear from the government’s announcements? I suggest this as the basis for the official scoring system of who’s doin’ the job for the people and who’s not. My information is far from comprehensive but what I have, put painstakingly into tabular form, shows that Chalerm was the 1st to have nothing to say; Yongyuth said nothing and looked progressively more silent as he sat beside the PM until he no longer sat beside her; is that Pracha also saying nothing but still taking notes in the pictures; Plodprasob remains at the other end of the scale, but now quiet about looking for 74,800 and some more boats to carry out his best idea.
Floods, hacks and the Nitirat effect
Somewhat ambiguous is what the article calls messages from the “Bangkok government.”
Did the US DoD official literally mean the BMA government? Or the did the team of US Marines liaise with counterparts in the Thai military, in which case was it the Thai military that gave the conflicting signals? Or did the military say one thing and the FROC say something else… and who said what?
In any case, who cares… the deadline is damning enough.
Floods, hacks and the Nitirat effect
Thanks Vichai. Good luck.
Any informed thoughts on what or who the two channels are?
Floods, hacks and the Nitirat effect
The floods had reached my soi last night. The water came in quickly and by midnight, the soi (already with higher elevation than nearby sois and main road) was knee deep in water. So far the meter high sandbags protecting my gate has succeeded to hold off the water from invading my home.
But I am preparing to completely evacuate today, for higher groun upcountry probably to Chaam. The government pronouncements are very persuasive, warning of water and electric services being cutoff ‘soon. Water rising in my soi also mean my toilet won’t be working . . . and that’s going to be messy.
But I am feeling satisfied that I have given ‘ample’ donations in money and in bountiful dry goods to those in need. I drove my wagon full of dry goods to Don Muang center, and inspite of the mess, my donations were promptly received without fuss (I appreciate that ‘no fuss’ reception, mind you.) I did note the mountains of bottled water, rice bags, ‘cooked’ food in plastic bags etc., and assortments of goods everywhere (small mountains of sanitary napkins, toilet papers, mosquito repellents . . . etc).
But I am infuriated to read of the Yingluck government’s shining bungling by declining the substantial USA offer of help:
http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2011/10/25/flood-hit-thailand-declines-offer-of-help/
” . . . The US Navy has withdrawn several ships sent to help with relief efforts in flood-hit Thailand after receiving “mixed” messages from the Bangkok government, a defense official said Monday.
The USS George Washington aircraft carrier and other ships were deployed to the area on October 16 for potential disaster relief work as Thailand faced massive flooding from monsoon rains, said Navy spokesman Lieutenant Commander John Perkins.
But the US military never received a formal request from the Thai government and the three-ship aircraft carrier group along with a fourth ship, the USS Kidd, were released and left the area on Friday, said Perkins, spokesman for the US Pacific Fleet based in Hawaii.
“We are ready to help but we haven’t got a request,” said a US defense official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
“There were two channels (in the Thai government),” the defense official told AFP. “One was saying ‘Yes’ and one was saying ‘No.’”
. . . .
Surely Bangkok Pundit, Andrew Spooner, or New Mandala bloggers could explain that this was no Yingluck government usual f….up.
Starting points: Laos in 1975
“(fortunately, many people hid them away in the bottom of draws or cupboards)”. There is actually a large amount of old books printed before 1975 sold at books stores in Vienchan. Although there quite expensive, well worth it. Especially, for those Lao who grew up abroad.
BERSIH 2.0 sweeps Australia
In a situation of utter turmoil, such as the case of present day Malaysia,there will arise an individual, humble in origin,resolute in commitment who will turn the tide against corruption,nepotism,cronism,etc.,etc
That person has come and dare I say that it is a woman, who will conquer all adversity…She is DATO AMBIGAI.
My prayers are with you!!!!
BERSIH 2.0 sweeps Australia
Dear Ms Sreenevasan,please can we have another Bersih soon,coz I believe that it has to happen constantly just to drum it into that thick skull of the Umno/Bn GOM,thanks for all your sacrifices,you are truly a Malaysian hero,n i really mean it,God Bless N Godspeed to you
Flood images from Nick Nostitz
how high’s the water momma? .. . 3 ft high, and rising… +5555
Always like your photos Nick.
Starting points: Laos in 1975
I agree that Grant Evan`s book remains a crucial text in the study of contemporary Laos. I would add that Vatthana Pholsena`s book of 2006 provides additional incites of great significance.
More data on 2011 rainfall
Look’s like it may be farmers’ fault after all:
“In the past we had wetlands and forests which helped absorb floods upstream, but much of that has gone now,” said Hannarong Yaowalert, chairman of the Foundation for Integrated Water Resources Management in Bangkok. “But today the wetlands are used for growing rice, and sometimes three crops a year instead of two crops like before. The authorities divert larger amounts of water further and further downstream.”
From the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204644504576648952504293780.html?mod=googlenews_wsj