You are definitely right on one thing – can’t agree with killer. As long as one insist on ignoring the elephant in the room, then it is not possible to have an agreement. Unless we all ignore the elephant and treat it as SEP (Someone Else’s Problem)
Just a point – Claims of lower crime rate etc are just that – “claims”
The perception of crime risk is obvious for all to see especially in Klang Valley. “Gated community”? mushrooming. We are not even talking about special built “gated communities”. We are talking about old housing areas where residence put up barricades and hire guards?
If crime rates have dropped as much as the police stats or killer wants us to believe, then these barrricades should be coming down, not more going up. Maybe this is a simplistic way of looking at things, but, for once I would like to see the stats published by the govt reflected in something we can see on the ground!
My conclusion was, if you had read my essay carefully, is that until Malay Supremacy is replaced, no political coalition – whether BN or PR or any other coalition – can make the reforms that Malaysia has to make i.e. to overcome the middle income trap we have to make structural changes to the economy which requires institutional reforms.
I also know why we have such differing views.
(1) My analysis are at issues on level 1 while your looking at outcomes in level five.
(2) We also have different points of departure or different “realities”.
My reality begins with the fact that Malaysia has institutionalised racism which provides a cover for systemic corruption and abuse of power.
Your reality is that the BN government is doing a great job and the fault lies with the opposition coalition and Malaysians who support the opposition.
I must say that I really do love Thai food, & can eat it 3 times a day. (Khanom Jeen or Khao Thom are a very good way to start the day.) I find that the more Thai friends one has, the easier it is to find the good stuff. Every region has its specialties, & the locals are always experts on where to find them.
It’s always intrigued me that beef is so tough & uninteresting. I do find myself longing for a steak occasionally, but the local beef is always a let-down. I wait until I can get to Vientiane, where Le Vendome has melt-in-your mouth filet for under $10. A British woman who knows about meat once told me that Thai steak is tough because they don’t know how to butcher & hang it. The owner of Le Vendome told me that they do their own butchering. However, I did recently have some very fine local steak in ChiangMai, purchased by my Thai host in a supermarket. I believe it was priced close to that of imported beef…
I think Craig Reynolds article “Autocratic Rule in Thailand” goes to the heart of it and Chang Noi’s recent publication on Khun Phaen probably also, though I haven’t yet read it.
The nation loves a strongman. be it Sarit, Thaksin, King Narasuen or Samak. the Les Majeste law, like the anti-communist laws of the recent past is used to stifle discussion, oppress dissent, and promulgate military coup d’etats. It’s a convenient tool for whoever is running the show and far too valuable to remove. I believe the noble Police Colonel Chalerm of the recently elected Pheua Thai Party has stated today that there will be no changes to the law (in the interests of “National Security” of course) and who am I to doubt him? I will probably continue to whinge about it as it upsets my inculcated western sense of progress, democracy and fair play but at the end of the day it’s for empowered and enfranchised thais to decide isn’t it(??)
How and whom becomes empowered is of course the fascinating part of New Mandala and Thai history of the last seventy years.
Du min phra boromma dechanuphap. And I would be prepared to bet that the Yingluck “Na Kha” Government will retain it. Too strong a weapon to throw away.
Thank you. I love your observation that my use of the Hitler/Stalin analogy was “inflated, crude and blunt”. It proves beyond any shadow of doubt that my year at the Royal Thai Army Command and General Staff College was time well spent.
Ji has the view that the major benificiary of the Lese Majeste law is the army. The people who make the coups. So I agree with the view that Taksins people should be the winners if 112 is abolished. Of course the yellows will make a fuss but the proces defending this reform will be a joy to participate in. I imagine there are genuine royalists who would much prefer a European stlye monarchy who will support the reform.
I would like to ask Thai folk I know their opinion. Could somebody please tell us all what is the Thai term for Lese Majeste?
Thanks for the response though I hope you can dispense with the name callings.
1. NEP : I think you have a very shallow understanding of NEP, which is common among PR supporters. The impact of NEP is very far reaching and I have seen it with my own eyes. But I have admitted that it has been abused and I support NEP needs to be fine-tuned to only help the needy. But it is wrong to assume the NEP only helps those who are connected. Anwar Ibrahim, Khalid Ibrahim and many of the PR leaders have benefited through the NEP and they are as guilty as some UMNO leaders in corrupting and abusing the NEP.
Najib is aware of this and already making efforts in preventing leakages and abuses via many of his reforms. This can be seen on the ground.
However to say PKR and DAP will stop these abuses are amusing. What is happening in Selangor, Penang and Kelantan clearly shows PR is happy to use NEP to enrich their cronies. Despite Penang’s so-called open tender, only small contracts are handed out transparently while the big deals are going to DAP-linked companies without tenders. In Selangor the abuses are so open though the PR friendly alternative media won’t report them. The KKSB case, Ronnie Lau, TBH cases are merely tip of the gigantic iceberg. The top leaders in PKNS are all PKR cronies. In Penang it is all DAP guys.
2. ETP / GTP
You have very little knowledge of the ETP/GTP so perhaps it is time for you to widen your reading outside MKini, MI,etc.
The PM’s dept budget is large as it contains many sub-ministries. If you care to look at the budget details, you can easily see that.
Even if Najib consolidates his power, there is nothing wrong as long as it produces result. I think the issue here is reforms so let’s not get sidetracked to discuss irrelevant and minor issues.
3. Please stick to the subject and discuss if there has been significant change or otherwise. That Khir Toyo, Ling, etc have been charged are unprecedented. The crime rate has been brought down. Judiciary is no longer under the thump of the executive and the court cases are being more speedily dealt with. In fact ETP has even KPIs for improvement. Survey after survey note the changes.
4. What happened under Mahatir is not something I am defending for he’s not the PM now. Perhaps you have forgotten that Anwar was in BN and he was also guilty of many wrongdoings you had listed.
As for TBH, the RCI clearly found that it was a suicide and only PR supporters refuse to buy it since they want to believe that he was murdered, despite a complete lack of evidence. Actually if not for DAP’s corruption, he would still be alive. So in fact if anyone responsible for his death, then it must be DAP.
Please don’t try to justify “small” bribes by PR. Bribery is bribery, a small thief will graduate into a mega thief given time and opportunity. In fact there is a wholesale corruption under PR that has been exposed. I find it perplexing that you claim to be anti corruption yet willing to defend PR’s corruption saying these are “small amounts”.
I find this to be the mindset of a typical PR supporters who will forgive any crimes committed by PR leaders as long as they can remove BN from power. They tend to denounce bribery, abuse of power, human rights violation,etc,etc but will defend PR when it does the same.
Most of these people only want one thing, that is regime change. All the talk about democratization is merely an excuse to attack BN for PR never demonstrated a real desire for change. We don’t have to go far, the state of affair in Penang, Kelantan, Kedah & Selangor is ample evidence.
Once upon a time in Canberra there was an Australia souvenier shop called Country Craftwork. An excellent example in explaining the р╕Ьр╕зр╕Щр╕Др╕│ concept to Farangs.
Anonymousth #5
Ja Hao /master sergeant / macho sergeant it is! Thank you.
Ja Hao was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Royal Thai Army on his 13th birthday in 1964, and recorded as a graduate of Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy (CRMA), making him a member of Class 16 and a classmate of Thaksin’s cousin Chaiyasit. By the time he entered Duntroon in 1972 he was actually a commissioned officer with seven years seniority, so he attended more as an observer than a cadet. In his final year his military expertise was recognized with promotion to Cadet Corporal.
UNSW refused to grant him a bachelor degree because he didn’t actually pass the exam, and he couldn’t receive an army commission because he already had one. So all he he got after four years at Duntroon was a special certificate of attendance. Whether or not he collected any Aussie souveniers from Country Craftwork to take back home to Thailand is yet to be confirmed.
UNSW obviously had second thoughts about his academic expertise, because some years later, during an official visit to Australia, they gave him an honorary PhD in Military Science.
Not bad for a lowly master sergeant, even for one of such machismo.
When will it be made into a TV series? That might be the next step.
I guess these seditious tales go to show that the lese majeste laws will never work completely as intended. People find ways of talking about things despite (and maybe sometimes because) it is forbidden.
If the author was found tomorrow and packed off to the slammer, someone else would recode it and set it somewhere else.
And if everyone reading it was sent to prison, they’d be probably be tapping messages through the walls like they do in old prison films.
I think the son is referred to Ja (Sergeant) or Ja Hao (more like macho Sergeant) because the perception/belief that the son went to a cadet academy but couldn’t get a degree of a cadet but instead a sergeant-ranked title.
“The mobilization of nationalist sentiment and self righteousness goes to the core of political control of the masses.”
this seems to be at utter variance with the facts….
the popularity of the Thaksin governments with the majority of the people resides in the actual achievement of benefits for all the people (even the elites, except the CP, use Suvarnabumi airport?)
the unpopularity of the Thaksin and Thaksin inspired governments with a minority of the people resides in the fear that his government will achieve radical political and social reform in Thailand
“No party has anything to gain by repealing the les majeste law which serves to protect whoever wields political power. The mobilization of nationalist sentiment and self righteousness goes to the core of political control of the masses.”
if I can understand what you are saying you consider it is not in any parties benefit to remove the royals/privy council from political power
seems to me that the Thaksin inspired parties are trying to rely on the support of the people at the ballot box for their power
but the royals/other elites/military generals are in the way and use LM as one of their mechanisms of control
therefore its obvious to me (whose mind is relatively unsullied by Sondhi Lim’s royalist rantings) that it will benefit any democratically elected government to remove LM
I wonder if there is a difference in opinions of those that have lived through Sondhi Lim’s rantings and those that have not? (minor research topic?)
Seh Fah #3
My interpretion. The word “Ja” does not only represent “the man in uniform”. If you add another word to make it “р╕Ир╣Ир╕▓р╕лр╣Йр╕▓р╕з”, it makes a harsh word that attacks the establishment when you р╕Ьр╕зр╕Щр╕Др╕│ (or do the spoonerism – in English?).
I like the term though 🙂
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Malaysia – a simple institutional analysis
Hai Greg,
You are definitely right on one thing – can’t agree with killer. As long as one insist on ignoring the elephant in the room, then it is not possible to have an agreement. Unless we all ignore the elephant and treat it as SEP (Someone Else’s Problem)
Just a point – Claims of lower crime rate etc are just that – “claims”
The perception of crime risk is obvious for all to see especially in Klang Valley. “Gated community”? mushrooming. We are not even talking about special built “gated communities”. We are talking about old housing areas where residence put up barricades and hire guards?
If crime rates have dropped as much as the police stats or killer wants us to believe, then these barrricades should be coming down, not more going up. Maybe this is a simplistic way of looking at things, but, for once I would like to see the stats published by the govt reflected in something we can see on the ground!
Family business, Thai style
Pay the piper; call the tune.
Thai food: Universally delicious?
@Moe Aung,
Thai Select is the seal of approval for authentic Thai food from the Thai Prime Minister Office.
At least that is what the certificate says.
Family business, Thai style
Pojaman acquitted, reds to jail. Judges comments laughable.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
I”I would like to ask the Thai people what is the Thai term for les-majeste”…
It’s about 15 years…
Thai food: Universally delicious?
@CT #45,#47,
So ‘Thai Select’ is the official seal of approval from a govt. ‘mystery shopper’. I also thought it was a chain.
I have seen Royal Thai Govt. patronage of the annual Thai Food Festival in London, and there was a recent event at Selfridges.
Malaysia – a simple institutional analysis
Killer #4.
Your missing out on the key points I’m making.
My conclusion was, if you had read my essay carefully, is that until Malay Supremacy is replaced, no political coalition – whether BN or PR or any other coalition – can make the reforms that Malaysia has to make i.e. to overcome the middle income trap we have to make structural changes to the economy which requires institutional reforms.
I also know why we have such differing views.
(1) My analysis are at issues on level 1 while your looking at outcomes in level five.
(2) We also have different points of departure or different “realities”.
My reality begins with the fact that Malaysia has institutionalised racism which provides a cover for systemic corruption and abuse of power.
Your reality is that the BN government is doing a great job and the fault lies with the opposition coalition and Malaysians who support the opposition.
So, it is unlikely that we can agree.
Thai food: Universally delicious?
I must say that I really do love Thai food, & can eat it 3 times a day. (Khanom Jeen or Khao Thom are a very good way to start the day.) I find that the more Thai friends one has, the easier it is to find the good stuff. Every region has its specialties, & the locals are always experts on where to find them.
It’s always intrigued me that beef is so tough & uninteresting. I do find myself longing for a steak occasionally, but the local beef is always a let-down. I wait until I can get to Vientiane, where Le Vendome has melt-in-your mouth filet for under $10. A British woman who knows about meat once told me that Thai steak is tough because they don’t know how to butcher & hang it. The owner of Le Vendome told me that they do their own butchering. However, I did recently have some very fine local steak in ChiangMai, purchased by my Thai host in a supermarket. I believe it was priced close to that of imported beef…
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
I think Craig Reynolds article “Autocratic Rule in Thailand” goes to the heart of it and Chang Noi’s recent publication on Khun Phaen probably also, though I haven’t yet read it.
The nation loves a strongman. be it Sarit, Thaksin, King Narasuen or Samak. the Les Majeste law, like the anti-communist laws of the recent past is used to stifle discussion, oppress dissent, and promulgate military coup d’etats. It’s a convenient tool for whoever is running the show and far too valuable to remove. I believe the noble Police Colonel Chalerm of the recently elected Pheua Thai Party has stated today that there will be no changes to the law (in the interests of “National Security” of course) and who am I to doubt him? I will probably continue to whinge about it as it upsets my inculcated western sense of progress, democracy and fair play but at the end of the day it’s for empowered and enfranchised thais to decide isn’t it(??)
How and whom becomes empowered is of course the fascinating part of New Mandala and Thai history of the last seventy years.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Ricky # 64
Du min phra boromma dechanuphap. And I would be prepared to bet that the Yingluck “Na Kha” Government will retain it. Too strong a weapon to throw away.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Billy Budd #61
Thank you. I love your observation that my use of the Hitler/Stalin analogy was “inflated, crude and blunt”. It proves beyond any shadow of doubt that my year at the Royal Thai Army Command and General Staff College was time well spent.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Ji has the view that the major benificiary of the Lese Majeste law is the army. The people who make the coups. So I agree with the view that Taksins people should be the winners if 112 is abolished. Of course the yellows will make a fuss but the proces defending this reform will be a joy to participate in. I imagine there are genuine royalists who would much prefer a European stlye monarchy who will support the reform.
I would like to ask Thai folk I know their opinion. Could somebody please tell us all what is the Thai term for Lese Majeste?
Malaysia – a simple institutional analysis
Dear Neptunian
Thanks for the response though I hope you can dispense with the name callings.
1. NEP : I think you have a very shallow understanding of NEP, which is common among PR supporters. The impact of NEP is very far reaching and I have seen it with my own eyes. But I have admitted that it has been abused and I support NEP needs to be fine-tuned to only help the needy. But it is wrong to assume the NEP only helps those who are connected. Anwar Ibrahim, Khalid Ibrahim and many of the PR leaders have benefited through the NEP and they are as guilty as some UMNO leaders in corrupting and abusing the NEP.
Najib is aware of this and already making efforts in preventing leakages and abuses via many of his reforms. This can be seen on the ground.
However to say PKR and DAP will stop these abuses are amusing. What is happening in Selangor, Penang and Kelantan clearly shows PR is happy to use NEP to enrich their cronies. Despite Penang’s so-called open tender, only small contracts are handed out transparently while the big deals are going to DAP-linked companies without tenders. In Selangor the abuses are so open though the PR friendly alternative media won’t report them. The KKSB case, Ronnie Lau, TBH cases are merely tip of the gigantic iceberg. The top leaders in PKNS are all PKR cronies. In Penang it is all DAP guys.
2. ETP / GTP
You have very little knowledge of the ETP/GTP so perhaps it is time for you to widen your reading outside MKini, MI,etc.
The PM’s dept budget is large as it contains many sub-ministries. If you care to look at the budget details, you can easily see that.
Even if Najib consolidates his power, there is nothing wrong as long as it produces result. I think the issue here is reforms so let’s not get sidetracked to discuss irrelevant and minor issues.
3. Please stick to the subject and discuss if there has been significant change or otherwise. That Khir Toyo, Ling, etc have been charged are unprecedented. The crime rate has been brought down. Judiciary is no longer under the thump of the executive and the court cases are being more speedily dealt with. In fact ETP has even KPIs for improvement. Survey after survey note the changes.
4. What happened under Mahatir is not something I am defending for he’s not the PM now. Perhaps you have forgotten that Anwar was in BN and he was also guilty of many wrongdoings you had listed.
As for TBH, the RCI clearly found that it was a suicide and only PR supporters refuse to buy it since they want to believe that he was murdered, despite a complete lack of evidence. Actually if not for DAP’s corruption, he would still be alive. So in fact if anyone responsible for his death, then it must be DAP.
Please don’t try to justify “small” bribes by PR. Bribery is bribery, a small thief will graduate into a mega thief given time and opportunity. In fact there is a wholesale corruption under PR that has been exposed. I find it perplexing that you claim to be anti corruption yet willing to defend PR’s corruption saying these are “small amounts”.
I find this to be the mindset of a typical PR supporters who will forgive any crimes committed by PR leaders as long as they can remove BN from power. They tend to denounce bribery, abuse of power, human rights violation,etc,etc but will defend PR when it does the same.
Most of these people only want one thing, that is regime change. All the talk about democratization is merely an excuse to attack BN for PR never demonstrated a real desire for change. We don’t have to go far, the state of affair in Penang, Kelantan, Kedah & Selangor is ample evidence.
Narrative sedition and democratic consolidation
Apirux #4
Once upon a time in Canberra there was an Australia souvenier shop called Country Craftwork. An excellent example in explaining the р╕Ьр╕зр╕Щр╕Др╕│ concept to Farangs.
Anonymousth #5
Ja Hao /master sergeant / macho sergeant it is! Thank you.
Ja Hao was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Royal Thai Army on his 13th birthday in 1964, and recorded as a graduate of Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy (CRMA), making him a member of Class 16 and a classmate of Thaksin’s cousin Chaiyasit. By the time he entered Duntroon in 1972 he was actually a commissioned officer with seven years seniority, so he attended more as an observer than a cadet. In his final year his military expertise was recognized with promotion to Cadet Corporal.
UNSW refused to grant him a bachelor degree because he didn’t actually pass the exam, and he couldn’t receive an army commission because he already had one. So all he he got after four years at Duntroon was a special certificate of attendance. Whether or not he collected any Aussie souveniers from Country Craftwork to take back home to Thailand is yet to be confirmed.
UNSW obviously had second thoughts about his academic expertise, because some years later, during an official visit to Australia, they gave him an honorary PhD in Military Science.
Not bad for a lowly master sergeant, even for one of such machismo.
Narrative sedition and democratic consolidation
When will it be made into a TV series? That might be the next step.
I guess these seditious tales go to show that the lese majeste laws will never work completely as intended. People find ways of talking about things despite (and maybe sometimes because) it is forbidden.
If the author was found tomorrow and packed off to the slammer, someone else would recode it and set it somewhere else.
And if everyone reading it was sent to prison, they’d be probably be tapping messages through the walls like they do in old prison films.
Narrative sedition and democratic consolidation
I think the son is referred to Ja (Sergeant) or Ja Hao (more like macho Sergeant) because the perception/belief that the son went to a cadet academy but couldn’t get a degree of a cadet but instead a sergeant-ranked title.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
as to the second part of the statement….
“The mobilization of nationalist sentiment and self righteousness goes to the core of political control of the masses.”
this seems to be at utter variance with the facts….
the popularity of the Thaksin governments with the majority of the people resides in the actual achievement of benefits for all the people (even the elites, except the CP, use Suvarnabumi airport?)
the unpopularity of the Thaksin and Thaksin inspired governments with a minority of the people resides in the fear that his government will achieve radical political and social reform in Thailand
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Billy Budd #61
“No party has anything to gain by repealing the les majeste law which serves to protect whoever wields political power. The mobilization of nationalist sentiment and self righteousness goes to the core of political control of the masses.”
if I can understand what you are saying you consider it is not in any parties benefit to remove the royals/privy council from political power
seems to me that the Thaksin inspired parties are trying to rely on the support of the people at the ballot box for their power
but the royals/other elites/military generals are in the way and use LM as one of their mechanisms of control
therefore its obvious to me (whose mind is relatively unsullied by Sondhi Lim’s royalist rantings) that it will benefit any democratically elected government to remove LM
I wonder if there is a difference in opinions of those that have lived through Sondhi Lim’s rantings and those that have not? (minor research topic?)
Narrative sedition and democratic consolidation
Seh Fah #3
My interpretion. The word “Ja” does not only represent “the man in uniform”. If you add another word to make it “р╕Ир╣Ир╕▓р╕лр╣Йр╕▓р╕з”, it makes a harsh word that attacks the establishment when you р╕Ьр╕зр╕Щр╕Др╕│ (or do the spoonerism – in English?).
I like the term though 🙂
Narrative sedition and democratic consolidation
Thank you, Khun Andrew, for your paper, and you, Khun Somsak, for your explanatory comments.
The son is referred to as “Ja”, which means “master sergeant” and implies leadership skills. Is there a subtle hint in that?