CT says after seroius study : “you might feel that Thailand is no longer a heaven, but it is a giant prison cell which fools its prisoners that they are living in heaven “.
The same would be true for many places Australia & the USA for example.
The one thing going for Thailand is something the country does not have and which the USA, Auatralia and the UK do have – Rupert Murdoch and News Linited.
We still have news limited but without the capitals.
Am I missing something here? Academics doing what they are told just like welders or journalists. Be that as it may welders and journalists generally get paid more than academics. Perhaps this reflects the perceived usefulness of such occupational groups to paymasters and paymistresses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Robin (#37) said: “I really think it is mistaken to break it down along Thai and farang lines. For example, how could anyone be an expert on a country’s history or the origins of its “culture” – irrespective of their nationality – if they have never seriously studied it? If they have not read or been exposed to a wide variety of theories, viewpoints and sources, and had the opportunity to listen to, or participate in critical appraisal of these views in an atmosphere free of intimidation or fear of social, financial or legal sanction”.
—
Very well said!
I am also quite tired of the “you not Thai, you cannot understand Thailand” mantra. Please try and be academic for a change. Do it the academic way. If you want to challenge anything which anyone has written, actually do read what the author of that book says. If the author mentions something which you do not believe it is true, check out their sources. Alternatively, do more research by yourself about that matter to see whether what they said is true or not. If it is not true, point that bit out that it is not true. Explain why it is not true, and bring evidence to the contrary to rebut it. That is how academic debate works.
Try it with Chapter 12 of the King Never Smiles, the event of 6 October 1976 as a starting point, as many people in this topic have talked about it, and there is apparently some confusion. Actually read the book, and do further research. Then bring evidences to the contrary (if any) to rebut what Mr Handley wrote. A word of warning though, if you are open minded and objective enough, doing this might change the way you think forever. And you might feel that Thailand is no longer a heaven, but it is a giant prison cell which fools its prisoners that they are living in heaven 🙂
tom hoy (44): Of course everyone is presumed innocent until found guilty. On that basis Gordon should be allowed bail; but I wouldn’t be willing to take any bets that he’ll be found not guilty. I would guess it’s a foregone conclusion.
Andrew Spooner (43): The point peter (43) was making is that governments say they can’t help in cases where a dual nationality holder is accused in the other country. You say there are about a dozen cases where the US has helped in such a situation. Could you please give details?
When it comes to International Law the USA is in a class of its own as Noam Chomsky illustrates in detail in “Failed States – The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy”. Simply said – Internationa Law applies to all states except the USA.
I guess 95% of Thai students studying abroad have a “farang” supervisor for their thesis’. Many work on “Thai-topics”. Does it mean that the supervisors have no idea about what they are supervising?
Juat like to say it’s great that this post has brought out your views and I sincerely hope you will continue to post – it is thoroughly illuminating, albeit at times somewhat disturbing.
If I may, I’d just like to challenge Khun Nawat on his comments on the superficiality of “farang” knowledge and lamenting (sarcastically) that “I, as a Thai, live my whole life in this culture but not qualified as an expert”.
I really think it is mistaken to break it down along Thai and farang lines. For example, how could anyone be an expert on a country’s history or the origins of its “culture” – irrespective of their nationality – if they have never seriously studied it? If they have not read or been exposed to a wide variety of theories, viewpoints and sources, and had the opportunity to listen to, or participate in critical appraisal of these views in an atmosphere free of intimidation or fear of social, financial or legal sanction.
You could legitimately say many farang have a superficial knowledge of Thailand. You could also legitmately say that many Thai citizens have a very superficial knowledge of their own history and cultural origins. Going down this road gets nowhere. Informed debate free of prejudice and ignorant nationalism is so much better.
Dear Tossaporn , I am an activist and not an academic, just like the Queen. But if I were a university teacher and I found there had been a meeting where a powerful individual holds a private meeting with my students with the intention of intimidating them I would be ropable. My duty would be to protect my students and so I think Andrew has done the right thing to open up this discussion.
Mind you Tossaporn, from what folk say about kowtowing to authority being very much a part of Thai culture, your defiant attitude, which is apparently most un Thai, is to be commended.
On another matter have you seen the letter from the four sons where they say the whole family in the palace – Dad, Aunty & Grandpa all fail to write back even though the boys are homesick? This really paints the elders in a very bad light. What does it mean that the website with the details : http://vivacharawongse.blogspot.com/ is not being blocked by the censors? Are we all, your student friends included, now free to speak?
I am glad you mentioned about the Human Rights Convention. However ratification of a Convention does not mean thst States have to adhere to that Convention. The Parliament (as a supreme law making body) still needs to legislate that convention into domestic law before you can enforce it in the domstic courts.
Of course there are some countries which their Courts will accept the Convention as part of their law after ratification (such as Holland, Italy etc) but there are also countries which their domestic Courts would not care about the Convention at all. Unfortunately Thailand is a country in a latter category.
If the USA wants to help Mr Gordon, the place they can seek action is only the ICJ. Then the ICJ will enforce the Convention against Thailand to have Mr Gordon released. However I do not see the likelihood of that happening. The USA currently enjoys so much benefits from the Thai elites, while Mr Gordon is merely a pensioner.
If Mr Gordon is a billionaire who pays more taxes than the combined benefits USA receive from the Thai elites, then the USA might risk losing the benefits they receive from the Thai elites to help him out. But as it is I don’t think they would want to risk cutting the ties and the benefits they receive from Thailand just for a pensioner whose earnings come from its country’s taxes.
Sorry to be harsh, but this is the sad truth. International law, despite its many principles, can be political. And there is nothing anyone can do to enforce the US to do anything to help Mr Gordon, unfortunately.
I’m not really a Tai/Thai studies person, though I dabble in it. I attended this conference because I happened to be in BKK with nothing better to do. But yes, as it turns out, there were a lot of better things which I could have done with my time. . .
I mainly went to history panels. I saw a widespread lack of imagination. So we can blame politics to some extent, but I observed plenty of scholars who just were making no effort to think of anything new to say. That was very disheartening.
On the other hand, I don’t think anyone here has mentioned Craig Reynold’s opening keynote address. I thought he gave a fabulous talk which went right to the jugular, but did so in an extremely professional and thought-provoking manner. His talk was about a policeman from the south, and to grossly simplify a sophisticated and nuanced talk, he linked ideas of magical invulnerability to belief in impunity before the law. He left the implications of this connection to the listeners to figure out, but it wasn’t very hard to figure out. And one person who asked a question afterwards basically explicitly connected the dots to contemporary Thai society. And after that there was nothing but deafening silence. . .
So I agree that this was a despressingly boring conference, but credit is due to at least one person for trying to spice things up. I also agree with the comments here about the lack of academic freedom in Thailand, but at the same time, premodern historians can still do a lot which is new without getting in trouble, so I encourage them to start using their brains a bit more, because for the life of me I did not see much cerebral activity going down at their panels. Just the same old same old.
If Nicholas’ Thai friends are apprehensive about dining in a hi so farang environment, pity the poor farang clutching the Thai Ministry of Culture’s “Thai Social Etiquette”.
Quote from page 39 in the chapter on Table Manners:
Do not wrestle with a tough piece of food trying to cut it into two smaller pieces till it shoots across the room or table.
Thanks for those who pointed out that this picture is the picture of the CP in 1975 when he was a student in Australia.
As the topic is about Surapong Jayanama, I had to refrain from asking whether the man in the picture is Surapong Jayanama or not because he does look like the CP.
PS. about the 6 October 1976 massacre, I can confirm that many Thais who were born after 1976 would not know much about it. This event is not taught in school. The first time I read about it was from Paul Handley’s “The King Never Smiles”, the book which is banned from Thailand. I then did more research about this event and knew more about it…
…but I better stop commenting. I love my freedom too much, and I would surely regret it if I would end up in jail for fifteen years for simply trying to win an academic discussion online against someone who will never change their POV anyway, even if they lose out in an argument. I love my freedom and my comfortable lifestyle too much to sacrifice it from simply saying what I have learned 🙂
I am a relative newbie, not a specialist, just interested and this was my first International Thai Studies Conference so I have nothing to compare it to.
So given that perspective, and assuming the debate has room for all levels of experience, here are a few positive things I learned from the conference:
There is a link between killing with impunity and invulnerability practices in Thailand through amulets, tattoos etc
The red shirts’ use of English slogans was a natural process and not a mindless repetition of messages dictated from without
The explosion of international schools in Thailand may well have a racist agenda underpinning it
As a label, the word tribes as in “hill tribes” is giving way to “indigenous people”
Thailand was a regional colonial power and not a wronged victim of western aggression
Cultural diversity should not fall victim to the “straitjacket of packaged Thainess”. It should encompass cultural freedom which means the freedom to choose your culture.
One idea I want to follow up is that of “ethnographic seduction” by Antonias Robben – a concept initially developed in the context of Argentina but which goes a long way to explaining the realities behind the Thai smile.
These points were made by Thais and non-Thais. I found some Thai presentations soft, subtle yet with a sting in the tail.
The best example of this was a presentation by a very mild mannered lady Thai educator, at the end of which she invited us to reconsider the trope “Nation, Religion, King.” Perhaps, she said, we should consider the nation less as the home of the Thai race and more as a multicultural identity. Religion should not be so overwhelmingly Buddhist – more room should be made for all religions. And King? Well, perhaps that should be replaced by “benevolent ruler”.
The conference was interesting to me within in the limitations outlined in the various comments. I go along with CJ Hinke and will be happy to assist him in the production of mass leaflets for distribution outside the next suitable venue. Anyone else?
The point is not about you have to be an academic to know your own history. Nawat has brought up the point that “farang” in general simply don’t understand the “Thais” culture. Well, my argument was that some “farang” (generally speaking academic and some enthusiastic individual) do know about Thailand’s history more than many Thais themselves. So who are we, to say, who understand that better than another? Moreover, how about the “Thais” that don’t agree with the play on “culture” like me? how did the argument live up to?
I did not emphasized on academic only, some ordinary people who care to spend enough time to study on culture will eventually understand that culture regardless, but understand in what context is up to the individual.
1. “The Thai students “were not” summoned. ”
I disagree. In general, there is more or less a pressure from those who organize the event. The pressure can be formal or informal and may vary from individual to individual (e.g. MFA-funded students suppose to come to this event, but MOST-funded students suppose to come to the other.)
It is always the case that ThaiGov-funded students in Canberra are expected to participate in events held here by Thai authorities. They are even expected to volunteer involuntarily (in other words, work for free, or work for less than minimum wage.). Next time you guys attend events at Thai embassy, ask Thai students there how much do they get?
In the past, ANU has been asked several times by Thai authorities in Canberra to forward event information to ANU student email. ANU did it a couple of times last year which I find a breach of trust and privacy! Well, I guess that they asked for all Thai student contacts, but as a compromise, ANU agreed to forward the information instead.
2. “One other thing, Surapong did not refer to you by name or say any thing impolite at all. He did not even directly criticised anyone at ANU or New Mandala. As a matter of fact, he was quite polite and humbled. ”
His initial speech matches the above description. Note the words “by name” or “directly” in the quote above. Well, because of this, the initial message was not clear, but after Q&A session his agenda here is obvious.
In Q&A discussion, it is apparent that Andrew and NM were mentioned. There are a number of students who vouched for Andrew and defended academic integrity at ANU. They have risked their life and their career to speak up. Andrew, you know them and you should not fail them. р╣Вр╕Ыр╕гр╕Фр╕Яр╕▒р╕Зр╕нр╕╡р╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕З Andrew, you know them and you should not fail them.
I think many of the comments indicate not that it is unfair because he was an American citizen but rather that the lese majeste law and its application is inherently unfair to anyone.
Joe Gordon is only one of many people who have been treated badly. Anyone who has been charged or imprisoned for lese majeste has been denied what the United Nations Charter on Human Rights says they should have. Freedom of thought and expression.
Also, even given the fact that Thai law is as it is, you should grant him the presumption of innocence and not say that he has broken that law. He has been found guilty of nothing so far.
Tossaporn seems to be very agitated. Most academics in the Thai media could easily be described as activists. Frankly, I see no distinction between activism and scholarship. Generally, I find engaged scholarship the most interesting.
That aside, as Tossaporn was there can he confirm that “general attacks on Thaksin and a defence of the 2006 coup. Students were urged to defend Thailand and the monarchy from attacks by foreigners and to avoid being influenced by some of the things they may hear about Thailand while studying here in Canberra.”
Tossaporn Sirak, I’d be interested to hear what was actually said.
Given the inability for Thailand to get it’s political act together at even a fundamental level, it might suggest that Thai’s themselves are not experts of their own situation/institution.
On a side note, Thai media is reporting (claiming?) Surapong to have zero foreign ministry experience. I find that strange, considering Andrew says Surapong was a former ambassador to Germany . . .
I am in sympathy with Andrew Spooner’s comments that we need to be concentrating on deadly serious matters such as the enduring support the USA has given the rather less murderous military of Thailand. To that I would add the links between the world’s no.2 rogue state (Israel) and the Thai coup makers.
Really this site becomes a great waste of time with so many trivial comments where it could help develop solutions to great problems. Trivial comments I might add which ignore the suffering of people born into a dysfunctional family.
I agree with Andrew s that the 737 was a time waster because great issues, such as one I raised about the validity of 3rd world debt which was at the heart of the story were ignored as was my question on how to take the guns away from the killers in green. Shame on you all.
And Andrew Walker I would again remind you about “only be publishing high-quality comments”.
As for http://vivacharawongse.blogspot.com .
I see it is not blocked which means that if once again we are not seeing a glitch in the fire wall it is now perfectly ok to point out the heartlessness of not only Sia Oh but also darling Prateep and the King of Kings. So surely lese majeste is on the way out !
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Surapong Jayanama down under
CT says after seroius study : “you might feel that Thailand is no longer a heaven, but it is a giant prison cell which fools its prisoners that they are living in heaven “.
The same would be true for many places Australia & the USA for example.
The one thing going for Thailand is something the country does not have and which the USA, Auatralia and the UK do have – Rupert Murdoch and News Linited.
We still have news limited but without the capitals.
Academics banned from China
Am I missing something here? Academics doing what they are told just like welders or journalists. Be that as it may welders and journalists generally get paid more than academics. Perhaps this reflects the perceived usefulness of such occupational groups to paymasters and paymistresses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Surapong Jayanama down under
@Robin (#37) said: “I really think it is mistaken to break it down along Thai and farang lines. For example, how could anyone be an expert on a country’s history or the origins of its “culture” – irrespective of their nationality – if they have never seriously studied it? If they have not read or been exposed to a wide variety of theories, viewpoints and sources, and had the opportunity to listen to, or participate in critical appraisal of these views in an atmosphere free of intimidation or fear of social, financial or legal sanction”.
—
Very well said!
I am also quite tired of the “you not Thai, you cannot understand Thailand” mantra. Please try and be academic for a change. Do it the academic way. If you want to challenge anything which anyone has written, actually do read what the author of that book says. If the author mentions something which you do not believe it is true, check out their sources. Alternatively, do more research by yourself about that matter to see whether what they said is true or not. If it is not true, point that bit out that it is not true. Explain why it is not true, and bring evidence to the contrary to rebut it. That is how academic debate works.
Try it with Chapter 12 of the King Never Smiles, the event of 6 October 1976 as a starting point, as many people in this topic have talked about it, and there is apparently some confusion. Actually read the book, and do further research. Then bring evidences to the contrary (if any) to rebut what Mr Handley wrote. A word of warning though, if you are open minded and objective enough, doing this might change the way you think forever. And you might feel that Thailand is no longer a heaven, but it is a giant prison cell which fools its prisoners that they are living in heaven 🙂
Adios 🙂
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
tom hoy (44): Of course everyone is presumed innocent until found guilty. On that basis Gordon should be allowed bail; but I wouldn’t be willing to take any bets that he’ll be found not guilty. I would guess it’s a foregone conclusion.
Andrew Spooner (43): The point peter (43) was making is that governments say they can’t help in cases where a dual nationality holder is accused in the other country. You say there are about a dozen cases where the US has helped in such a situation. Could you please give details?
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
When it comes to International Law the USA is in a class of its own as Noam Chomsky illustrates in detail in “Failed States – The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy”. Simply said – Internationa Law applies to all states except the USA.
Surapong Jayanama down under
I guess 95% of Thai students studying abroad have a “farang” supervisor for their thesis’. Many work on “Thai-topics”. Does it mean that the supervisors have no idea about what they are supervising?
Surapong Jayanama down under
Nawat, Sanook Dum, Tossaporn,
Juat like to say it’s great that this post has brought out your views and I sincerely hope you will continue to post – it is thoroughly illuminating, albeit at times somewhat disturbing.
If I may, I’d just like to challenge Khun Nawat on his comments on the superficiality of “farang” knowledge and lamenting (sarcastically) that “I, as a Thai, live my whole life in this culture but not qualified as an expert”.
I really think it is mistaken to break it down along Thai and farang lines. For example, how could anyone be an expert on a country’s history or the origins of its “culture” – irrespective of their nationality – if they have never seriously studied it? If they have not read or been exposed to a wide variety of theories, viewpoints and sources, and had the opportunity to listen to, or participate in critical appraisal of these views in an atmosphere free of intimidation or fear of social, financial or legal sanction.
You could legitimately say many farang have a superficial knowledge of Thailand. You could also legitmately say that many Thai citizens have a very superficial knowledge of their own history and cultural origins. Going down this road gets nowhere. Informed debate free of prejudice and ignorant nationalism is so much better.
Surapong Jayanama down under
Dear Tossaporn , I am an activist and not an academic, just like the Queen. But if I were a university teacher and I found there had been a meeting where a powerful individual holds a private meeting with my students with the intention of intimidating them I would be ropable. My duty would be to protect my students and so I think Andrew has done the right thing to open up this discussion.
Mind you Tossaporn, from what folk say about kowtowing to authority being very much a part of Thai culture, your defiant attitude, which is apparently most un Thai, is to be commended.
On another matter have you seen the letter from the four sons where they say the whole family in the palace – Dad, Aunty & Grandpa all fail to write back even though the boys are homesick? This really paints the elders in a very bad light. What does it mean that the website with the details : http://vivacharawongse.blogspot.com/ is not being blocked by the censors? Are we all, your student friends included, now free to speak?
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
@Andrew Spooner #43
I am glad you mentioned about the Human Rights Convention. However ratification of a Convention does not mean thst States have to adhere to that Convention. The Parliament (as a supreme law making body) still needs to legislate that convention into domestic law before you can enforce it in the domstic courts.
Of course there are some countries which their Courts will accept the Convention as part of their law after ratification (such as Holland, Italy etc) but there are also countries which their domestic Courts would not care about the Convention at all. Unfortunately Thailand is a country in a latter category.
If the USA wants to help Mr Gordon, the place they can seek action is only the ICJ. Then the ICJ will enforce the Convention against Thailand to have Mr Gordon released. However I do not see the likelihood of that happening. The USA currently enjoys so much benefits from the Thai elites, while Mr Gordon is merely a pensioner.
If Mr Gordon is a billionaire who pays more taxes than the combined benefits USA receive from the Thai elites, then the USA might risk losing the benefits they receive from the Thai elites to help him out. But as it is I don’t think they would want to risk cutting the ties and the benefits they receive from Thailand just for a pensioner whose earnings come from its country’s taxes.
Sorry to be harsh, but this is the sad truth. International law, despite its many principles, can be political. And there is nothing anyone can do to enforce the US to do anything to help Mr Gordon, unfortunately.
No passion at ICTS11
I’m not really a Tai/Thai studies person, though I dabble in it. I attended this conference because I happened to be in BKK with nothing better to do. But yes, as it turns out, there were a lot of better things which I could have done with my time. . .
I mainly went to history panels. I saw a widespread lack of imagination. So we can blame politics to some extent, but I observed plenty of scholars who just were making no effort to think of anything new to say. That was very disheartening.
On the other hand, I don’t think anyone here has mentioned Craig Reynold’s opening keynote address. I thought he gave a fabulous talk which went right to the jugular, but did so in an extremely professional and thought-provoking manner. His talk was about a policeman from the south, and to grossly simplify a sophisticated and nuanced talk, he linked ideas of magical invulnerability to belief in impunity before the law. He left the implications of this connection to the listeners to figure out, but it wasn’t very hard to figure out. And one person who asked a question afterwards basically explicitly connected the dots to contemporary Thai society. And after that there was nothing but deafening silence. . .
So I agree that this was a despressingly boring conference, but credit is due to at least one person for trying to spice things up. I also agree with the comments here about the lack of academic freedom in Thailand, but at the same time, premodern historians can still do a lot which is new without getting in trouble, so I encourage them to start using their brains a bit more, because for the life of me I did not see much cerebral activity going down at their panels. Just the same old same old.
Thai food: Universally delicious?
If Nicholas’ Thai friends are apprehensive about dining in a hi so farang environment, pity the poor farang clutching the Thai Ministry of Culture’s “Thai Social Etiquette”.
Quote from page 39 in the chapter on Table Manners:
Do not wrestle with a tough piece of food trying to cut it into two smaller pieces till it shoots across the room or table.
Surapong Jayanama down under
Thanks for those who pointed out that this picture is the picture of the CP in 1975 when he was a student in Australia.
As the topic is about Surapong Jayanama, I had to refrain from asking whether the man in the picture is Surapong Jayanama or not because he does look like the CP.
PS. about the 6 October 1976 massacre, I can confirm that many Thais who were born after 1976 would not know much about it. This event is not taught in school. The first time I read about it was from Paul Handley’s “The King Never Smiles”, the book which is banned from Thailand. I then did more research about this event and knew more about it…
…but I better stop commenting. I love my freedom too much, and I would surely regret it if I would end up in jail for fifteen years for simply trying to win an academic discussion online against someone who will never change their POV anyway, even if they lose out in an argument. I love my freedom and my comfortable lifestyle too much to sacrifice it from simply saying what I have learned 🙂
No passion at ICTS11
I am a relative newbie, not a specialist, just interested and this was my first International Thai Studies Conference so I have nothing to compare it to.
So given that perspective, and assuming the debate has room for all levels of experience, here are a few positive things I learned from the conference:
There is a link between killing with impunity and invulnerability practices in Thailand through amulets, tattoos etc
The red shirts’ use of English slogans was a natural process and not a mindless repetition of messages dictated from without
The explosion of international schools in Thailand may well have a racist agenda underpinning it
As a label, the word tribes as in “hill tribes” is giving way to “indigenous people”
Thailand was a regional colonial power and not a wronged victim of western aggression
Cultural diversity should not fall victim to the “straitjacket of packaged Thainess”. It should encompass cultural freedom which means the freedom to choose your culture.
One idea I want to follow up is that of “ethnographic seduction” by Antonias Robben – a concept initially developed in the context of Argentina but which goes a long way to explaining the realities behind the Thai smile.
These points were made by Thais and non-Thais. I found some Thai presentations soft, subtle yet with a sting in the tail.
The best example of this was a presentation by a very mild mannered lady Thai educator, at the end of which she invited us to reconsider the trope “Nation, Religion, King.” Perhaps, she said, we should consider the nation less as the home of the Thai race and more as a multicultural identity. Religion should not be so overwhelmingly Buddhist – more room should be made for all religions. And King? Well, perhaps that should be replaced by “benevolent ruler”.
The conference was interesting to me within in the limitations outlined in the various comments. I go along with CJ Hinke and will be happy to assist him in the production of mass leaflets for distribution outside the next suitable venue. Anyone else?
Surapong Jayanama down under
Jesse – 29
The point is not about you have to be an academic to know your own history. Nawat has brought up the point that “farang” in general simply don’t understand the “Thais” culture. Well, my argument was that some “farang” (generally speaking academic and some enthusiastic individual) do know about Thailand’s history more than many Thais themselves. So who are we, to say, who understand that better than another? Moreover, how about the “Thais” that don’t agree with the play on “culture” like me? how did the argument live up to?
I did not emphasized on academic only, some ordinary people who care to spend enough time to study on culture will eventually understand that culture regardless, but understand in what context is up to the individual.
Surapong Jayanama down under
Tossaporn Sirak
1. “The Thai students “were not” summoned. ”
I disagree. In general, there is more or less a pressure from those who organize the event. The pressure can be formal or informal and may vary from individual to individual (e.g. MFA-funded students suppose to come to this event, but MOST-funded students suppose to come to the other.)
It is always the case that ThaiGov-funded students in Canberra are expected to participate in events held here by Thai authorities. They are even expected to volunteer involuntarily (in other words, work for free, or work for less than minimum wage.). Next time you guys attend events at Thai embassy, ask Thai students there how much do they get?
In the past, ANU has been asked several times by Thai authorities in Canberra to forward event information to ANU student email. ANU did it a couple of times last year which I find a breach of trust and privacy! Well, I guess that they asked for all Thai student contacts, but as a compromise, ANU agreed to forward the information instead.
2. “One other thing, Surapong did not refer to you by name or say any thing impolite at all. He did not even directly criticised anyone at ANU or New Mandala. As a matter of fact, he was quite polite and humbled. ”
His initial speech matches the above description. Note the words “by name” or “directly” in the quote above. Well, because of this, the initial message was not clear, but after Q&A session his agenda here is obvious.
In Q&A discussion, it is apparent that Andrew and NM were mentioned. There are a number of students who vouched for Andrew and defended academic integrity at ANU. They have risked their life and their career to speak up. Andrew, you know them and you should not fail them. р╣Вр╕Ыр╕гр╕Фр╕Яр╕▒р╕Зр╕нр╕╡р╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕З Andrew, you know them and you should not fail them.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Peter,
I think many of the comments indicate not that it is unfair because he was an American citizen but rather that the lese majeste law and its application is inherently unfair to anyone.
Joe Gordon is only one of many people who have been treated badly. Anyone who has been charged or imprisoned for lese majeste has been denied what the United Nations Charter on Human Rights says they should have. Freedom of thought and expression.
Also, even given the fact that Thai law is as it is, you should grant him the presumption of innocence and not say that he has broken that law. He has been found guilty of nothing so far.
Surapong Jayanama down under
Tossaporn seems to be very agitated. Most academics in the Thai media could easily be described as activists. Frankly, I see no distinction between activism and scholarship. Generally, I find engaged scholarship the most interesting.
That aside, as Tossaporn was there can he confirm that “general attacks on Thaksin and a defence of the 2006 coup. Students were urged to defend Thailand and the monarchy from attacks by foreigners and to avoid being influenced by some of the things they may hear about Thailand while studying here in Canberra.”
Surapong Jayanama down under
Tossaporn Sirak, I’d be interested to hear what was actually said.
Given the inability for Thailand to get it’s political act together at even a fundamental level, it might suggest that Thai’s themselves are not experts of their own situation/institution.
On a side note, Thai media is reporting (claiming?) Surapong to have zero foreign ministry experience. I find that strange, considering Andrew says Surapong was a former ambassador to Germany . . .
[Note from AW: different Surapong.]
Letter to Thailand
I am in sympathy with Andrew Spooner’s comments that we need to be concentrating on deadly serious matters such as the enduring support the USA has given the rather less murderous military of Thailand. To that I would add the links between the world’s no.2 rogue state (Israel) and the Thai coup makers.
Really this site becomes a great waste of time with so many trivial comments where it could help develop solutions to great problems. Trivial comments I might add which ignore the suffering of people born into a dysfunctional family.
I agree with Andrew s that the 737 was a time waster because great issues, such as one I raised about the validity of 3rd world debt which was at the heart of the story were ignored as was my question on how to take the guns away from the killers in green. Shame on you all.
And Andrew Walker I would again remind you about “only be publishing high-quality comments”.
As for http://vivacharawongse.blogspot.com .
I see it is not blocked which means that if once again we are not seeing a glitch in the fire wall it is now perfectly ok to point out the heartlessness of not only Sia Oh but also darling Prateep and the King of Kings. So surely lese majeste is on the way out !
Unity is dead; long live coexistence
“Thai government welcomes all kinds of criticism”
It welcomes, but that doesn’t mean that it would accept and cherish your criticism.