I just don’t think dedicating all media coverage to the activities and thoughts of one person can be particularly healthy for developing an understanding of any country, particularly for those on the outside.
As aiontay pointed out, media coverage of other important events, such as the fighting in Kachin State, has been practically non-existent. In Australia, the trial of Ross Dunkley seem to have gotten a far better run in the press.
On another issue, the “new” government would be crazy to jeopardise relations with basically every Western nation by taking too hard a line on the NLD and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Although, the same thing was probably being said in 2003…
without having to stifle too much of a yawn, tony @4 and umno’s taxpayer funded ‘cybertroopers’ really need to come up with better arguments against free and fair elections… DrM’s era of non sequitur, fear and distractions are just so bankrupt, much like umno’s slo-mo car crash
I doubt that this old brain will ever remember those coded numbers, but how about following in the footsteps of the late great Peter Cook’s satirical magazine Private Eye and its use of euphemisms.
I see they still refer to all illicit sexual activities as ‘Ugandan discussions’. (The reason why this phrase was used is too long to go into right now, but a bit Googling or a search on Wikepedia will give you the answer.)
So my idea is when a comment is far too gushing and knicker-wetting on the subject of Yingluck, or others, we could use the euphemism ‘Pyongyang patter’.
As far as I can recall, there were 26 people killed at Khok Wua Intersection on 10 April 2010 (5 soldiers and 21 civilians) and 42 people killed at Ratchaprasong on 14-19 May 2010 (41 civilians and 1 soldier). There was also the fatal wounding of Seh Daeng on 13 May 2010, and possibly other deaths as well.
Please don’t just repeat the inaccurate Red Shirt allegation that 91 civilian demonstrators were murdered at Ratchaprasong. It’s almost as bad as the army’s absurd claim that they didn’t kill anyone at all.
From the Dobell story: “the Shakespearean element is the conflict surrounding the monarchy” This is the aspect of the current situation that, ironically, makes the current situation so interesting and, for those of us who know our Shakespeare, so scary. I might be inclined to argue that Shakespearean problems require Shakespearean solutions.
You are most welcome to argue from the opposition side (against Yingluck) from now on. I am sure you share Suthep’s warning that if more than half of the country is controlled by reds, there will be “change” in administration. As you can see from the coloured political map, the reds are already in control of Isan, the north, part of central region, and outer/northern part of Bangkok, do you think the defeated Democrats can still defend the south for another few years ? Btw, the Chonburi clan (actually they are former TRT) has decided to join Yingluck’s coalition.
Note that once again, as in most media stories, the emphasis is placed on a “dysfunctional royal family”.
The logic of this view is that if the family were more “functional”, then there would not be a problem.
I think that this is a misunderstanding of the problem.
The real problem is the political power that is wielded by the monarchy.
The solution is to remove those powers.
The best way to remove those powers is for a democratically-elected government with a broad political mandate to enact legislation.
Therefore the election of Yinglak and PT should not be seen as a “nightmare scenario” but as a very good chance to begin this task.
I am not denying the sensitivity of the task. It will require great political skill. It should not be rushed. But it has to be done.
I am also skeptical about how much support the monarchy actually has – notwithstanding the fanatics in certain quarters and those with vested interests.
The recent poll, given everything that has happened in the last five years, as well as the way the Democrats have campaigned constantly accusing the Reds and Thaksin of wanting to “lom jao”, can almost be seen as a referendum on the monarchy.
I think that if lese majeste was abolished tomorrow we would immediately see much more rational views about the monarchy – and the King himself – being expressed in Thailand.
Seems some women’s rights advocates would cut off their nose to spite their face.
If they truly wanted to improve things for women, they would be quietly approaching the new PM, appealing to her femininity, and inform her of issues that need addressing & suggest possible solutions/courses of action.
(instead of criticizing her before even giving her a chance, let alone in some instances actively campaigning against her)
I rather suspect our friend Kyaw has no less an ASSK fixation than the ‘farang’. He must have noticed the much hyped ‘third force’ seems to have been a seven day wonder.
So long as the Lady continues to pose a real challenge to military rule in its latest incarnation, within the ‘legal fold’ the regime so fondly talks about, she will remain the focus of attention for everyone both inside and outside the country regardless of your feelings and opinion or mine. Of course it’s down to the regime how much more breathing space for how much longer they are prepared to allow the ‘illegal’ NLD and its leader.
Come the next fire, people’s opinion of her leadership may well change depending on outcomes and benefits or the lack of them. In an ideal ‘liberal’ world, compromise and cooperation should be the norm, not confrontation and coercion leading to conflagration. ASSK hopefully realises after all this time that for the Burmese conundrum going half cocked on a half-baked solution is no solution at all.
Above all international support, albeit valuable in its various forms, cannot substitute our own unity and effort to bring about change, whatever it takes with all options on the table.
I received a forward email that has been circulated within the women’s rights NGOs googlegroup prior to the election. It echoed what Prayuth said, which was Thais should vote for the right person who will defend the crown. Messages were sent back and forth to vote for No. 10.
Both two feminists are a member of this googlegroups.
The reason that Yingluck does not see fit for their tastes is not because she is not a feminist, but that she is Thaksin’s sister.
Kyaw, she is, like it or not, the main opposition leader. Who should they be reporting on instead? And how is that different than coverage of any other country or leader? I haven’t seen a lot of coverage of the fighting in the Kachin State or any extended coverage of the complexities there in the mainstream media, at least here in the US. As Nicholas himself notes, even on this site, in recent days most of the coverage has been of Thailand. Where is the analysis of the complexities of recent turmoil in the Karen State? Instead we get this post; is it because New Mandala has an AASK fixation? I don’t think so.
Unfortunately Rudd’s movements these days have little to do with Australia or his destination and more to do with establishing a name for himself to pursue a highly paid UN bureaucratic post. If at the same time he can annoy the PM Gillard then all the better. Even though he remains far more popular than her his party doesn’t like him, as such he is finished in Australian politics.
Despite that his visit does no harm as it keeps the spotlight on Burma. His being “very keen to understand Chinese ambitions in Southeast Asia through the prism of their activities in Myanmar” is interesting but doubt we will see a follow up on that touchy subject. Not at least until the North Koreans get the nukes in place.
Wow Tony, I’m amazed with your arguments. Let me get this clear:
(1) Are you saying that citizens of Malaysia who are advocating for a more genuine form of democracy by calling for free and fair elections are a bunch of troublemakers?
(2) Are you suggesting that it is illegal or morally wrong to accept money from foreign sources to advocate for democracy (or human rights, free and fair elections, etc)?
1. Quoted “Yingluck never said a single word about women’s rights promotion during her campaign,” said Sutada of GDRI.”
If you haven’t noticed, this election is about Thai people (all Thai people not just women) are fighting for their freedom and democracy. Many had died for this worthy cause! The entire country has been oppressed by the aristocrats, not just women are being oppressed!
2. Quoted “She might have the anatomy of a woman, but she thinks like a man and I don’t think she will do anything extraordinary for women,” said Arpaporn Sumrit”
This is one of most sexist statements I have read in a long time! For your information, women can succeed without your feminist helping hands or guidance! I think those “poor women” are helping your egos more than you are purporting to help them!
Finally, I think once again, a Thaksin stroke of political genius in this election was putting his young sister in the Pua Thai Party leadership position. Why? Just imagine for a moment that the bloodthirsty aristocrats were to go after Yingluck like they did to Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai, then in the eyes of international community would be seeing these blood thirsty aristocrats bullying a little pretty woman! It would be difficult for the international community not to do or condemn the bloodthirsty aristocrats. Yingluck must make the most of this situation with the international community and the foreign media well. Yingluck could be one of the best trump cards for Thai freedom fighters have against the bloodthirsty aristocrats.
Tony, this is all good fun, and I don’t want to deny NM readers some enjoyment by trashing it (thought I have deleted some of the slander). But just one clarification in case anyone takes it seriously. I am not sure what you mean by “You might also be interested to know they tapped Mr. Andrew Walker for at least one of their research papers”. Do you mean they “tapped” my phone, News of the World style? Wow! I will have to be careful what pizzas I order (produced by self-sufficient pizza artisans, I assure you, not a global conglomerate bent on world domination like Pizza Hut). Or do you mean they “tapped” me on the shoulder, ie, they asked me to write a research report for them? If you mean the latter, let me state that I have never written a report for the Lowy Institute. I would have no objection to doing so, but they have never asked me. AW
[…] was preparing for mass demonstrations in Malaysia, Walker’s “New Mandala” blog posted the following, “The biggest threat – as perceived by the present administration – to Malaysia’s […]
Les: Thanks for that reminder.
I’m not sure what was the most despicable act – The Democrats bringing the monarchy into politics (and, as usual, trying to benefit from it), or the TRT candidate foolishly trying to use the LM laws to get back at them.
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Kevin Rudd and Aung San Suu Kyi
I just don’t think dedicating all media coverage to the activities and thoughts of one person can be particularly healthy for developing an understanding of any country, particularly for those on the outside.
As aiontay pointed out, media coverage of other important events, such as the fighting in Kachin State, has been practically non-existent. In Australia, the trial of Ross Dunkley seem to have gotten a far better run in the press.
On another issue, the “new” government would be crazy to jeopardise relations with basically every Western nation by taking too hard a line on the NLD and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Although, the same thing was probably being said in 2003…
Malaysia in turmoil?
without having to stifle too much of a yawn, tony @4 and umno’s taxpayer funded ‘cybertroopers’ really need to come up with better arguments against free and fair elections… DrM’s era of non sequitur, fear and distractions are just so bankrupt, much like umno’s slo-mo car crash
Yingluck Shinawatra: The lighter side
Not so much a link as an addition to your ‘new comment policy’.
http://www.newmandala.org/2011/06/11/new-mandalas-new-comment-policy/
I doubt that this old brain will ever remember those coded numbers, but how about following in the footsteps of the late great Peter Cook’s satirical magazine Private Eye and its use of euphemisms.
I see they still refer to all illicit sexual activities as ‘Ugandan discussions’. (The reason why this phrase was used is too long to go into right now, but a bit Googling or a search on Wikepedia will give you the answer.)
So my idea is when a comment is far too gushing and knicker-wetting on the subject of Yingluck, or others, we could use the euphemism ‘Pyongyang patter’.
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
Dickie Simpkins #39
What killing of 91 people at Ratchaprasong?
As far as I can recall, there were 26 people killed at Khok Wua Intersection on 10 April 2010 (5 soldiers and 21 civilians) and 42 people killed at Ratchaprasong on 14-19 May 2010 (41 civilians and 1 soldier). There was also the fatal wounding of Seh Daeng on 13 May 2010, and possibly other deaths as well.
Please don’t just repeat the inaccurate Red Shirt allegation that 91 civilian demonstrators were murdered at Ratchaprasong. It’s almost as bad as the army’s absurd claim that they didn’t kill anyone at all.
Malaysia in turmoil?
I guess Tony #4 advise to potential rape victims would be “lie down and enjoy it”
Thanks Tony, but no thanks. This is the 21st century, not the 14th
More on Marshall’s Thai Story
From the Dobell story: “the Shakespearean element is the conflict surrounding the monarchy” This is the aspect of the current situation that, ironically, makes the current situation so interesting and, for those of us who know our Shakespeare, so scary. I might be inclined to argue that Shakespearean problems require Shakespearean solutions.
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
LesAbbey, # 31
You are most welcome to argue from the opposition side (against Yingluck) from now on. I am sure you share Suthep’s warning that if more than half of the country is controlled by reds, there will be “change” in administration. As you can see from the coloured political map, the reds are already in control of Isan, the north, part of central region, and outer/northern part of Bangkok, do you think the defeated Democrats can still defend the south for another few years ? Btw, the Chonburi clan (actually they are former TRT) has decided to join Yingluck’s coalition.
More on Marshall’s Thai Story
Short comment on the Dobell story:
Note that once again, as in most media stories, the emphasis is placed on a “dysfunctional royal family”.
The logic of this view is that if the family were more “functional”, then there would not be a problem.
I think that this is a misunderstanding of the problem.
The real problem is the political power that is wielded by the monarchy.
The solution is to remove those powers.
The best way to remove those powers is for a democratically-elected government with a broad political mandate to enact legislation.
Therefore the election of Yinglak and PT should not be seen as a “nightmare scenario” but as a very good chance to begin this task.
I am not denying the sensitivity of the task. It will require great political skill. It should not be rushed. But it has to be done.
I am also skeptical about how much support the monarchy actually has – notwithstanding the fanatics in certain quarters and those with vested interests.
The recent poll, given everything that has happened in the last five years, as well as the way the Democrats have campaigned constantly accusing the Reds and Thaksin of wanting to “lom jao”, can almost be seen as a referendum on the monarchy.
I think that if lese majeste was abolished tomorrow we would immediately see much more rational views about the monarchy – and the King himself – being expressed in Thailand.
Yingluck and Thailand’s women
Seems some women’s rights advocates would cut off their nose to spite their face.
If they truly wanted to improve things for women, they would be quietly approaching the new PM, appealing to her femininity, and inform her of issues that need addressing & suggest possible solutions/courses of action.
(instead of criticizing her before even giving her a chance, let alone in some instances actively campaigning against her)
Kevin Rudd and Aung San Suu Kyi
aiontay,
I rather suspect our friend Kyaw has no less an ASSK fixation than the ‘farang’. He must have noticed the much hyped ‘third force’ seems to have been a seven day wonder.
So long as the Lady continues to pose a real challenge to military rule in its latest incarnation, within the ‘legal fold’ the regime so fondly talks about, she will remain the focus of attention for everyone both inside and outside the country regardless of your feelings and opinion or mine. Of course it’s down to the regime how much more breathing space for how much longer they are prepared to allow the ‘illegal’ NLD and its leader.
Come the next fire, people’s opinion of her leadership may well change depending on outcomes and benefits or the lack of them. In an ideal ‘liberal’ world, compromise and cooperation should be the norm, not confrontation and coercion leading to conflagration. ASSK hopefully realises after all this time that for the Burmese conundrum going half cocked on a half-baked solution is no solution at all.
Above all international support, albeit valuable in its various forms, cannot substitute our own unity and effort to bring about change, whatever it takes with all options on the table.
Yingluck and Thailand’s women
I received a forward email that has been circulated within the women’s rights NGOs googlegroup prior to the election. It echoed what Prayuth said, which was Thais should vote for the right person who will defend the crown. Messages were sent back and forth to vote for No. 10.
Both two feminists are a member of this googlegroups.
The reason that Yingluck does not see fit for their tastes is not because she is not a feminist, but that she is Thaksin’s sister.
Kevin Rudd and Aung San Suu Kyi
Kyaw, she is, like it or not, the main opposition leader. Who should they be reporting on instead? And how is that different than coverage of any other country or leader? I haven’t seen a lot of coverage of the fighting in the Kachin State or any extended coverage of the complexities there in the mainstream media, at least here in the US. As Nicholas himself notes, even on this site, in recent days most of the coverage has been of Thailand. Where is the analysis of the complexities of recent turmoil in the Karen State? Instead we get this post; is it because New Mandala has an AASK fixation? I don’t think so.
Kevin Rudd and Aung San Suu Kyi
Unfortunately Rudd’s movements these days have little to do with Australia or his destination and more to do with establishing a name for himself to pursue a highly paid UN bureaucratic post. If at the same time he can annoy the PM Gillard then all the better. Even though he remains far more popular than her his party doesn’t like him, as such he is finished in Australian politics.
Despite that his visit does no harm as it keeps the spotlight on Burma. His being “very keen to understand Chinese ambitions in Southeast Asia through the prism of their activities in Myanmar” is interesting but doubt we will see a follow up on that touchy subject. Not at least until the North Koreans get the nukes in place.
Malaysia in turmoil?
Wow Tony, I’m amazed with your arguments. Let me get this clear:
(1) Are you saying that citizens of Malaysia who are advocating for a more genuine form of democracy by calling for free and fair elections are a bunch of troublemakers?
(2) Are you suggesting that it is illegal or morally wrong to accept money from foreign sources to advocate for democracy (or human rights, free and fair elections, etc)?
Yingluck and Thailand’s women
To the two disguised as intellectual elites:
1. Quoted “Yingluck never said a single word about women’s rights promotion during her campaign,” said Sutada of GDRI.”
If you haven’t noticed, this election is about Thai people (all Thai people not just women) are fighting for their freedom and democracy. Many had died for this worthy cause! The entire country has been oppressed by the aristocrats, not just women are being oppressed!
2. Quoted “She might have the anatomy of a woman, but she thinks like a man and I don’t think she will do anything extraordinary for women,” said Arpaporn Sumrit”
This is one of most sexist statements I have read in a long time! For your information, women can succeed without your feminist helping hands or guidance! I think those “poor women” are helping your egos more than you are purporting to help them!
Finally, I think once again, a Thaksin stroke of political genius in this election was putting his young sister in the Pua Thai Party leadership position. Why? Just imagine for a moment that the bloodthirsty aristocrats were to go after Yingluck like they did to Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai, then in the eyes of international community would be seeing these blood thirsty aristocrats bullying a little pretty woman! It would be difficult for the international community not to do or condemn the bloodthirsty aristocrats. Yingluck must make the most of this situation with the international community and the foreign media well. Yingluck could be one of the best trump cards for Thai freedom fighters have against the bloodthirsty aristocrats.
More on Marshall’s Thai Story
Andrew, a correction: Marshall’s “archive” of raw cables is not complete.
Marshall said there were nearly 3,000 Thailand cables. His archive page only contains 111 cables.
As you’ve said, it’s not easy work to editorialize the raw cables, but we ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
More on Marshall’s Thai Story
Tony, this is all good fun, and I don’t want to deny NM readers some enjoyment by trashing it (thought I have deleted some of the slander). But just one clarification in case anyone takes it seriously. I am not sure what you mean by “You might also be interested to know they tapped Mr. Andrew Walker for at least one of their research papers”. Do you mean they “tapped” my phone, News of the World style? Wow! I will have to be careful what pizzas I order (produced by self-sufficient pizza artisans, I assure you, not a global conglomerate bent on world domination like Pizza Hut). Or do you mean they “tapped” me on the shoulder, ie, they asked me to write a research report for them? If you mean the latter, let me state that I have never written a report for the Lowy Institute. I would have no objection to doing so, but they have never asked me. AW
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
First order of the day:
Who ordered the killing of 91 people in Rajprasong.
Who are the people responsible for it?
Who are the ‘men in black’?
Yingluck and Phuea Thai… do you dare actually investigate and isolate all those responsible for the escalation?
My instincts say not… and all we will get is another one-sided investigation :0)
Malaysia in turmoil?
[…] was preparing for mass demonstrations in Malaysia, Walker’s “New Mandala” blog posted the following, “The biggest threat – as perceived by the present administration – to Malaysia’s […]
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Les: Thanks for that reminder.
I’m not sure what was the most despicable act – The Democrats bringing the monarchy into politics (and, as usual, trying to benefit from it), or the TRT candidate foolishly trying to use the LM laws to get back at them.
Do you recall whether the original public speeches from which the quotes came from could be considered ‘political’ in any way?
http://www.zenjournalist.com/2011/06/05bangkok1774/