This gonna be your master piece, Kudos to Andrew. However, in the first part ,nothing surprises me much except those guys explicit opinions regarding the monarchy as it seems like the compilation of TKNS, Rev King, and Hi s Tale. So, I’m looking forward to the second half of #ThaiStory.
BTW. I feel like PT ,especially Thaksin, not gonna like the first part of #ThaiStory. Democratic may gain more vote from this LOL
As a child of the 60s, maybe your world shouldnโt be so narrowly polarized.
Thanks WLH, it must be an age thing. I just struggle to find the humour in it. Still everyone to their own.
And talking about everyone to their own, Andrew Marshall obviously has his own horse to flog, but thank you Andrew for putting some of the cables out in the public domain as promised.
The great thing about these Wikileak cables is they were obviously only meant to be read by team players. That means there unlikely to be many reasons for the writer not to tell the what they think is the truth. We could probably imagine someone very ambitious ramping up the stories or someone not so smart just getting it totally wrong, but overall we should be able to expect mostly the truth.
After a long wait, I have to say its a very satisfying piece. I’ve only read about 40 pages so far and like Andrew mentioned earlier, if you have been following what is going on, nothing in the articles will surprise you. Other than part of cable that Andrew quote which is more like a confirmation of the rumors that we have heard.
One of the interesting aspects of this brilliant and comprehensive summary of recent Thai history with the Queen at the center of various plots against three elected governments, (using her intermediary Prem, the Head of the Privy Council, and her private heavily armed militia, the Queens’ Guards, despite her lack of any hereditary, historical or constitutional authority of position), is that any future books or articles about Thailand’s recent history and present situation must now, it would seem, include and account for this material which is now so very public. IE., all those books that have been omitting this stuff, can now no longer omit it and all the veiled references, must now be explicit. This will revolutionize Thailand studies and scholarship.
The various cliche’s about the Thai monarchy being “above politics” and the Queen being somehow “benevolent” and the entire royal family “revered” by “all Thai citizens” has now gone completely out the window.
Interestingly, in Andrew’s account, the King is sort of an elderly bystander, and thus it is still possible for people to respect and accept the King while at the same time not respecting and accepting the actions and views of the Queen.
Here I am in complete agreement with plan B that the minorities alone will never do it.
All the popular currents of struggle, armed and unarmed, above and underground, Bamar and ethnic, will have to come together to form the Tsunami that will do away with military rule once and for all.
Somewhat like when the AFPFL, with the Panglong Agreement on board and a general strike with the threat of a popular uprising (only the demobbed PVO of Aung San and the rest absorbed into the Burma Rifles regiments were there), managed to win independence from the British. The difference is that this ‘second struggle for independence’ is going to be many times harder, more complicated, not black and white literally and metaphorically, and yes, violent in the end but not by choice on the part of the peoples of Burma.
We can all then have a good old round table family squabble once the gunfire has died down and the smoke has settled. It’s the regime that has made the choice of revolution and not evolution. That’s how they choose to exit.
Wow! All I can say at this point, having read the first 25 pages and having jumped to the last 10 pages, and relying upon two wornout cliches, is that 1) those of us here in Thailand are living in a fool’s paradise; 2) if we get through the next month without a military coup, it will be by the skin of our teeth.
Read the whole thing and found it very thorough, valuable, and concise. Even if none of the conclusions are outside the known locus of Thai-whispered rumors, concretizing them with notarized government communications provides the smoking gun(s). Many thanks for providing this work, and for going so for free.
Why does Not The Nation have to be “attacking Marshall or his detractors”? Are those the only two choices? Maybe they’re just taking the piss at everyone, like The Onion, which they are clearly ripping off.
As a child of the 60s, maybe your world shouldn’t be so narrowly polarized.
(that was a joke, neither attacking you nor your detractors.)
I find Thanong’s twitter stream amazing for several reasons:
1) He’s an editor at the Nation but has no idea that Thaistory was going live or even existed, despite fellow colleague Pravit Rojanaphruk foreshadowing its publication on the 15th of June.
2) First he thought @freakingcat was responsible.
3) He didn’t know who @zenjournalist is.
4) Then he played the conspiracy/”something fishy” card, as it’s ten days to poll time, when we’ve all been waiting for this story for ages as Andrew Marshall has been burning the midnite oil.
To me it completely confirms McCargo’s conclusion:
“The overall effect of the garbled and incoherent coverage in the Thai press was simply to reinforce a deeply dysfunctional political system” (2000, p. 238-239)
Refs
McCargo, D. (2000) Politics and the Press in Thailand: Media machinations. Bangkok, Thailand: Garuda Press.
The proverb on the story’s first page ัโะัโฃะัโโัโะัโะฅัโโัโะฒัโะงัโโัโฃะัโะัโะฅัโโัโะทัโฃะัโะฝัโโัโฃะัโะชัโะชัโโัโะทัโะซัโโคัโะคัโฃะัโะฑัโฃะัโะฑัโโคัโะค (Chaang dtaii tang dtua aow bua bid mai mid) means “one can’t cover up a dead elephant with a lotus leaf”.
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Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
The Times article is behind a paywall ๐
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Kudos to Andrew Marshall… a very brave man who has made his mark on Thai history!
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
This gonna be your master piece, Kudos to Andrew. However, in the first part ,nothing surprises me much except those guys explicit opinions regarding the monarchy as it seems like the compilation of TKNS, Rev King, and Hi s Tale. So, I’m looking forward to the second half of #ThaiStory.
BTW. I feel like PT ,especially Thaksin, not gonna like the first part of #ThaiStory. Democratic may gain more vote from this LOL
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Cassandra – 16
The Thunderer weighs in with an editorial
Cassandra I think it’s behind Rupert Murdoch’s paywall, which for some of us is a wall to far ๐
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
WHL – 11
As a child of the 60s, maybe your world shouldnโt be so narrowly polarized.
Thanks WLH, it must be an age thing. I just struggle to find the humour in it. Still everyone to their own.
And talking about everyone to their own, Andrew Marshall obviously has his own horse to flog, but thank you Andrew for putting some of the cables out in the public domain as promised.
The great thing about these Wikileak cables is they were obviously only meant to be read by team players. That means there unlikely to be many reasons for the writer not to tell the what they think is the truth. We could probably imagine someone very ambitious ramping up the stories or someone not so smart just getting it totally wrong, but overall we should be able to expect mostly the truth.
Well I’m working my way down the list slowly and can see where Andrew saw some of his story, but this one from 2005 is a classic on Thaksin. For those that can see no fault in the man read http://thaicables.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/05bangkok2219-the-thaksinization-of-thailand-impressions-after-three-months/
I think I will enjoy reading more of these;-)
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
After a long wait, I have to say its a very satisfying piece. I’ve only read about 40 pages so far and like Andrew mentioned earlier, if you have been following what is going on, nothing in the articles will surprise you. Other than part of cable that Andrew quote which is more like a confirmation of the rumors that we have heard.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
One of the interesting aspects of this brilliant and comprehensive summary of recent Thai history with the Queen at the center of various plots against three elected governments, (using her intermediary Prem, the Head of the Privy Council, and her private heavily armed militia, the Queens’ Guards, despite her lack of any hereditary, historical or constitutional authority of position), is that any future books or articles about Thailand’s recent history and present situation must now, it would seem, include and account for this material which is now so very public. IE., all those books that have been omitting this stuff, can now no longer omit it and all the veiled references, must now be explicit. This will revolutionize Thailand studies and scholarship.
The various cliche’s about the Thai monarchy being “above politics” and the Queen being somehow “benevolent” and the entire royal family “revered” by “all Thai citizens” has now gone completely out the window.
Interestingly, in Andrew’s account, the King is sort of an elderly bystander, and thus it is still possible for people to respect and accept the King while at the same time not respecting and accepting the actions and views of the Queen.
War in Kachin State
Here I am in complete agreement with plan B that the minorities alone will never do it.
All the popular currents of struggle, armed and unarmed, above and underground, Bamar and ethnic, will have to come together to form the Tsunami that will do away with military rule once and for all.
Somewhat like when the AFPFL, with the Panglong Agreement on board and a general strike with the threat of a popular uprising (only the demobbed PVO of Aung San and the rest absorbed into the Burma Rifles regiments were there), managed to win independence from the British. The difference is that this ‘second struggle for independence’ is going to be many times harder, more complicated, not black and white literally and metaphorically, and yes, violent in the end but not by choice on the part of the peoples of Burma.
We can all then have a good old round table family squabble once the gunfire has died down and the smoke has settled. It’s the regime that has made the choice of revolution and not evolution. That’s how they choose to exit.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
The Thunderer weighs in with an editorial
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/leaders/article3072414.ece
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Wow! All I can say at this point, having read the first 25 pages and having jumped to the last 10 pages, and relying upon two wornout cliches, is that 1) those of us here in Thailand are living in a fool’s paradise; 2) if we get through the next month without a military coup, it will be by the skin of our teeth.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
For the record, I think Not The Nation XXXXXXX rocks
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
The refuter’s point of view linked to by Markus is well worth a read:
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/wikileaks-strikes-again-asian-summer.html
It’s not often that one comes across a piece which is as entertainingly barking mad.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Andrew Marshall @6:
Read the whole thing and found it very thorough, valuable, and concise. Even if none of the conclusions are outside the known locus of Thai-whispered rumors, concretizing them with notarized government communications provides the smoking gun(s). Many thanks for providing this work, and for going so for free.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Les Abbey @5:
Why does Not The Nation have to be “attacking Marshall or his detractors”? Are those the only two choices? Maybe they’re just taking the piss at everyone, like The Onion, which they are clearly ripping off.
As a child of the 60s, maybe your world shouldn’t be so narrowly polarized.
(that was a joke, neither attacking you nor your detractors.)
Thailand’s ballots and bullets
Oh, my goodness! Samut Prakan is so dangerous.
Critics of Aung San Suu Kyi say…
I think that this is all not true she is a good person but i dunno what the critics have to say, WHO AGREES WITH ME?
Sorry just a bored student who has nothing better to do and REALLY wants to get outta her english lesson hahahahahahahahahahah
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
“Andrew Marshall”:
WOW! Compelling!
That will take some time for me to digest. I am eagerly expecting the remaining parts – please don’t wait too long ๐
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
I find Thanong’s twitter stream amazing for several reasons:
1) He’s an editor at the Nation but has no idea that Thaistory was going live or even existed, despite fellow colleague Pravit Rojanaphruk foreshadowing its publication on the 15th of June.
2) First he thought @freakingcat was responsible.
3) He didn’t know who @zenjournalist is.
4) Then he played the conspiracy/”something fishy” card, as it’s ten days to poll time, when we’ve all been waiting for this story for ages as Andrew Marshall has been burning the midnite oil.
To me it completely confirms McCargo’s conclusion:
“The overall effect of the garbled and incoherent coverage in the Thai press was simply to reinforce a deeply dysfunctional political system” (2000, p. 238-239)
Refs
McCargo, D. (2000) Politics and the Press in Thailand: Media machinations. Bangkok, Thailand: Garuda Press.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
The proverb on the story’s first page ัโะัโฃะัโโัโะัโะฅัโโัโะฒัโะงัโโัโฃะัโะัโะฅัโโัโะทัโฃะัโะฝัโโัโฃะัโะชัโะชัโโัโะทัโะซัโโคัโะคัโฃะัโะฑัโฃะัโะฑัโโคัโะค (Chaang dtaii tang dtua aow bua bid mai mid) means “one can’t cover up a dead elephant with a lotus leaf”.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
A refuters point of view:
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/wikileaks-strikes-again-asian-summer.html
Summary: Wikileaks is all but hearsay and Andre Marshall is serving Thaksin.
Does trusting the Wikileaks documents equal a leap of faith?