Dear Khun New Mandala, several apology that it has been such extended time since I past featured in New Mandala. Here in Bangkok we have been very busy dealing with internal division, partly stirred up by uninformed external spokespersons. But on this auspicious occasion I feel obliged to pass my most sincere wishes of fifth birthday splendor to your world-renowned web-site. Here in the Division of International Media Monitoring, Ministry of Foreigns Affair, Royal Thai Government, Bangkok, Thailand we are regular and highly interested readers of Mandala Mai Blog and receive many reports of your work from our representatives abroad. Apart from sincere expression of birthday celebration, I am interested very much in your invitations for guest contributions as I am a little worried that if Mr Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra’s sister wins the election some of us luuk-nong of Mr. Kasit may be looking for work. Are you able to pay? I hope to see you soon in Thailand. Oh, in fact, perhaps not.
Happy Birthday,
Nuat Namman
Under-Secretary for International Media Monitoring
PS. Could I present a paper at the Thai conference in Melbourne about His Majesty’s discoveries about gravity?
Note: the summary given at manager.co.th is not a direct quote, and the editing leaves something to be desired. This has no doubt complicated the Thai->English translation.
Would seem the army is also now worried about a PT win. From memory since they got rid of Taksin their budget has quadrupled meaning of course plenty of gravy to go around.
Taksin at his peak did try to restructure the military, events since would suggest he failed, so not sure how PT would be able to do more. The military are the enforcers of the elite/patronage system of course, and will be determined to maintain the current statas quo.
As I see it the general has outlined publicly what the military do and do not want, warning against unsuitable people not loyal to the institution, suspect they will use this later as part of their coup justification.
I find it rather amazing that when pointing out that Thailand’s problems are to be seen in a Thai context regardless of color and affiliation, one is automatically accused of being a “UDD apologist” and not being objective.
I would also suggest to read my comment again – i believe i have pointed out that the PAD is presently more or less irrelevant, but that said godfathers are found in the Democrat Party as well. May i remind you, that until you made the comment about the UDD, the discussion centered around Chuvit, and turned towards godfather politicians in Thai politics, meaning all political parties, not the UDD, which you were the first one to mention here. This was, amazingly, not a discussion about the UDD, until you managed to steer it that way. Boring, boring, boring – not all discussion on Thailand has to be discussion on the UDD.
But now you have it. Where do i fail to judge the UDD by the same standards? Already three years ago in one of my first articles on New Mandala i have mentioned that in the UDD are mafia style godfathers.
I was maybe the first photographer who has photographed a Red Shirt with a gun, in December 2008, and have published that picture in my first book (and i published images of PAD guards arrested with guns). I have never said that the Red Shirts are an entirely peaceful movement, and neither have i called the PAD such. Members of both movements have killed people – and i have always stated so.
I base my analyses also on political messages – when i hear on PAD stages speeches that large sectors of society should not be allowed to vote, for example, i can hardly call this movement a democratic movement. When powerful members of the Democrat Party and active soldiers have supported the PAD with money, people, and whatever else, then i have to point that out.
When i hear on UDD stages speeches on democracy, freedom of choosing their representatives without military interference, etc, than i will also point that out. I have also pointed out enormous support in the police force for the Red Shirts. If you read my books, you can see that i have also criticized the Red Shirts, and naturally, when i will publish my third book on last year’s mess – you will read criticism of both sides, also of the UDD. One point i will criticize is, for example, the occupation of Rajaprasong intersection.
What you get foremost from me is factual accounts of what happened, objectively, corroborated by my varied sources in both the protest movements and in the security forces.
Can you dispute any of the facts i presented with a different account? If not, i would suggest that you keep your ad hominem attacks against me to yourself.
Your question regarding the middle class. We have seen the emergence of a middle class in Thailand a long time ago – a quite varied middle class as well – from lower to upper middle classes, from urban to rural middle classes.
You are quite mistaken if you believe that the Red Shirts are about the “rural and urban poor”. Thailand is not a developing nation – the statistics on poverty are quite clear, and Thailand has only about 8.something percent below the absolute poverty line (and this sector is also under the Red Shirts just a fringe part).
Many of the organizations that deal with poverty are doing a good job, and others are a complete waste of time. Yet their situation regarding the Red Shirts are very complex. I would suggest to read Giles Ungpakorn’s papers and articles on the NGO’s and their political affiliations, ideology, etc.
These organizations being a “threat” to the godfathers? Hardly. This is not a cheap Hollywood movie.
The UDD though is far more about political empowerment, justice and system change than a fight about “poverty” (which is only one part of their agenda), as “poverty” is not anymore a foremost problem in Thailand. The “middle class” is nowadays as strongly represented in the UDD as in their opponents.
Can we now go back now to Chuvit, godfather politicians, police corruption and whatever else, and if we have to bring in the UDD, then in context?
Happy Birthday to you New Mandala! I’ve stumbled on to your website post Sep19,06 (thanks to someone’s post on samesky I think) and never left since. Keep up the good work and thank you everyone in the team for your contribution. I’ve learned a lot from your site and always share it with my friends whenever I can (within the limits of the law of course!)
Meanwhile, Pravit in the Nation has written the boldest editorial I’ve ever seen in Thai print media, basically naming the monarchy as the “invisible hand” and condemning it. There’s hope yet.
Suthep’s response was pre-scripted. Yingluck’s response was brilliant. She’s really a perfect leader for PT; having cured them of one of their worst qualities, over-reaction and pettiness. They’ve come a long way since Samak.
BKK Lawyer @15:
Good catch. I noticed yesterday about 20 comments on the ISOC story, all anti-ISOC. Now they’re gone. The BKK Post are cowards.
Just a quick update: New Mandala readers will be keen to know that the ANU has issued a media release to mark our fifth birthday. It is available here. You will see that it includes some comments on the occasion from our Vice Chancellor, Professor Ian Young.
And Milton Osborne, the distinguished Australian scholar of mainland Southeast Asia, has us on his list of suggested reading for Thailand’s 2011 election.
The Bangkok Post removed all reader comments from its online article about Prayuth’s ‘speech’ and disabled further commenting. Many of the comments had been critical of the general.
Today’s Bangkok Post article about ISOC stepping up media pressure also has comments disabled.
Maybe this gives you an idea why PT and the Dems both declined to criticize Prayuth?
Nick,
Amazing that it is seems to be impossible to have a discussion on the UDD without one of their apologist putting forth the PAD red herring. You really need to get over this deep seated grudge you bear against the PAD. They are history and the fact that they couldn’t drum up any support for their latest campaign shows that. Your failure to use those same standards you use to judge the PAD for the UDD, shows you are not trying very hard to be objective about the UDD.
I am more then willing to wait for the natural progression of a developing country and for the emergence of a middle class that comes from that. Do you see any of that needed patience in the UDD? There are numerous other organizations that are truly trying to help the rural and urban poor, worth noting few if any, are willing to join the UDD umbrella, mostly because they are the ones that are the real threat to the godfathers.
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New Mandala turns five!
Dear Khun New Mandala, several apology that it has been such extended time since I past featured in New Mandala. Here in Bangkok we have been very busy dealing with internal division, partly stirred up by uninformed external spokespersons. But on this auspicious occasion I feel obliged to pass my most sincere wishes of fifth birthday splendor to your world-renowned web-site. Here in the Division of International Media Monitoring, Ministry of Foreigns Affair, Royal Thai Government, Bangkok, Thailand we are regular and highly interested readers of Mandala Mai Blog and receive many reports of your work from our representatives abroad. Apart from sincere expression of birthday celebration, I am interested very much in your invitations for guest contributions as I am a little worried that if Mr Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra’s sister wins the election some of us luuk-nong of Mr. Kasit may be looking for work. Are you able to pay? I hope to see you soon in Thailand. Oh, in fact, perhaps not.
Happy Birthday,
Nuat Namman
Under-Secretary for International Media Monitoring
PS. Could I present a paper at the Thai conference in Melbourne about His Majesty’s discoveries about gravity?
Prayuth’s threat
Video of the referenced comments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1HRBpqNZzo
(See 5:20 onwards)
Note: the summary given at manager.co.th is not a direct quote, and the editing leaves something to be desired. This has no doubt complicated the Thai->English translation.
Prayuth’s threat
Would seem the army is also now worried about a PT win. From memory since they got rid of Taksin their budget has quadrupled meaning of course plenty of gravy to go around.
Taksin at his peak did try to restructure the military, events since would suggest he failed, so not sure how PT would be able to do more. The military are the enforcers of the elite/patronage system of course, and will be determined to maintain the current statas quo.
As I see it the general has outlined publicly what the military do and do not want, warning against unsuitable people not loyal to the institution, suspect they will use this later as part of their coup justification.
Chuvit on the streets
Nuomi 26
Interesting analysis of the police system from which Thaksin and Chalerm have emerged……..and the model for future system of government
New Mandala turns five!
Well done, and hopefully you can have many more while still welcoming all shades of opinion.
Chuvit on the streets
“John Smith”:
I find it rather amazing that when pointing out that Thailand’s problems are to be seen in a Thai context regardless of color and affiliation, one is automatically accused of being a “UDD apologist” and not being objective.
I would also suggest to read my comment again – i believe i have pointed out that the PAD is presently more or less irrelevant, but that said godfathers are found in the Democrat Party as well. May i remind you, that until you made the comment about the UDD, the discussion centered around Chuvit, and turned towards godfather politicians in Thai politics, meaning all political parties, not the UDD, which you were the first one to mention here. This was, amazingly, not a discussion about the UDD, until you managed to steer it that way. Boring, boring, boring – not all discussion on Thailand has to be discussion on the UDD.
But now you have it. Where do i fail to judge the UDD by the same standards? Already three years ago in one of my first articles on New Mandala i have mentioned that in the UDD are mafia style godfathers.
I was maybe the first photographer who has photographed a Red Shirt with a gun, in December 2008, and have published that picture in my first book (and i published images of PAD guards arrested with guns). I have never said that the Red Shirts are an entirely peaceful movement, and neither have i called the PAD such. Members of both movements have killed people – and i have always stated so.
I base my analyses also on political messages – when i hear on PAD stages speeches that large sectors of society should not be allowed to vote, for example, i can hardly call this movement a democratic movement. When powerful members of the Democrat Party and active soldiers have supported the PAD with money, people, and whatever else, then i have to point that out.
When i hear on UDD stages speeches on democracy, freedom of choosing their representatives without military interference, etc, than i will also point that out. I have also pointed out enormous support in the police force for the Red Shirts. If you read my books, you can see that i have also criticized the Red Shirts, and naturally, when i will publish my third book on last year’s mess – you will read criticism of both sides, also of the UDD. One point i will criticize is, for example, the occupation of Rajaprasong intersection.
What you get foremost from me is factual accounts of what happened, objectively, corroborated by my varied sources in both the protest movements and in the security forces.
Can you dispute any of the facts i presented with a different account? If not, i would suggest that you keep your ad hominem attacks against me to yourself.
Your question regarding the middle class. We have seen the emergence of a middle class in Thailand a long time ago – a quite varied middle class as well – from lower to upper middle classes, from urban to rural middle classes.
You are quite mistaken if you believe that the Red Shirts are about the “rural and urban poor”. Thailand is not a developing nation – the statistics on poverty are quite clear, and Thailand has only about 8.something percent below the absolute poverty line (and this sector is also under the Red Shirts just a fringe part).
Many of the organizations that deal with poverty are doing a good job, and others are a complete waste of time. Yet their situation regarding the Red Shirts are very complex. I would suggest to read Giles Ungpakorn’s papers and articles on the NGO’s and their political affiliations, ideology, etc.
These organizations being a “threat” to the godfathers? Hardly. This is not a cheap Hollywood movie.
The UDD though is far more about political empowerment, justice and system change than a fight about “poverty” (which is only one part of their agenda), as “poverty” is not anymore a foremost problem in Thailand. The “middle class” is nowadays as strongly represented in the UDD as in their opponents.
Can we now go back now to Chuvit, godfather politicians, police corruption and whatever else, and if we have to bring in the UDD, then in context?
Prayuth’s threat
More “threats” ? From Bangkok Post today
Isoc to step up media pressure
Crackdown launched against biased channels
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/election/242440/isoc-to-step-up-media-pressure
Prayuth’s threat
I posted a link to the nation piece on the Wikileaks thread.
New Mandala turns five!
Happy Birthday!
As the Chinese saying goes: Chang Ming Bai Shui !
New Mandala turns five!
Happy Birthday to you New Mandala! I’ve stumbled on to your website post Sep19,06 (thanks to someone’s post on samesky I think) and never left since. Keep up the good work and thank you everyone in the team for your contribution. I’ve learned a lot from your site and always share it with my friends whenever I can (within the limits of the law of course!)
Prayuth’s threat
Meanwhile, Pravit in the Nation has written the boldest editorial I’ve ever seen in Thai print media, basically naming the monarchy as the “invisible hand” and condemning it. There’s hope yet.
Prayuth’s threat
Suthep’s response was pre-scripted. Yingluck’s response was brilliant. She’s really a perfect leader for PT; having cured them of one of their worst qualities, over-reaction and pettiness. They’ve come a long way since Samak.
BKK Lawyer @15:
Good catch. I noticed yesterday about 20 comments on the ISOC story, all anti-ISOC. Now they’re gone. The BKK Post are cowards.
New Mandala turns five!
Just a quick update: New Mandala readers will be keen to know that the ANU has issued a media release to mark our fifth birthday. It is available here. You will see that it includes some comments on the occasion from our Vice Chancellor, Professor Ian Young.
And Milton Osborne, the distinguished Australian scholar of mainland Southeast Asia, has us on his list of suggested reading for Thailand’s 2011 election.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Prayuth’s threat
In addition to Saksith’s piece linked at c9, there is also Bangkok Pundit’s longer piece (with much more of the actual words and about the circumstances of Prayuth’s [cough] “interview” at http://asiancorrespondent.com/57493/thai-army-chief-vote-for-good-people-some-media-are-divisive/
Prayuth’s threat
c11
To paraphrase the immortal Mandy Rice-Davies: “Well, they would, wouldn’t they?”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Rice-Davies
Prayuth’s threat
The general said he just expressed his personal views as a citizen.
In a soldier’s uniform?
Prayuth’s threat
Simon @11:
The Bangkok Post removed all reader comments from its online article about Prayuth’s ‘speech’ and disabled further commenting. Many of the comments had been critical of the general.
Today’s Bangkok Post article about ISOC stepping up media pressure also has comments disabled.
Maybe this gives you an idea why PT and the Dems both declined to criticize Prayuth?
Chuvit on the streets
Nick,
Amazing that it is seems to be impossible to have a discussion on the UDD without one of their apologist putting forth the PAD red herring. You really need to get over this deep seated grudge you bear against the PAD. They are history and the fact that they couldn’t drum up any support for their latest campaign shows that. Your failure to use those same standards you use to judge the PAD for the UDD, shows you are not trying very hard to be objective about the UDD.
I am more then willing to wait for the natural progression of a developing country and for the emergence of a middle class that comes from that. Do you see any of that needed patience in the UDD? There are numerous other organizations that are truly trying to help the rural and urban poor, worth noting few if any, are willing to join the UDD umbrella, mostly because they are the ones that are the real threat to the godfathers.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Tarrin @97:
He will release it soon, here: http://thaistoryblog.wordpress.com/
New Mandala turns five!
Well done, and many happy returns.