So being educated in the West creates great leaders does it? So in the US recently we have had Bush (R) and Obama (D) , both puppets for their Banker overloads, both ran absurd economy destroying debts, both oversaw wars of profit and both oversaw US companies exporting jobs to China. Good stuff.
Both Abbhisit and Yingluk are Elites, the former old money and the latter new money. Both are puppets in their own way and report to their masters, neither offers any long term intelligent plan for the future of the country, although both are buying votes through populism.
The Democrats cannot even win an election without the army helping out, Pheua Thai would probably face another coup if elected. As such the better result is probably Abhisit with his gaggle of experienced Treasury raiding cronies as will probably be more peaceful without yet another military coup. Great choice.
Note that the link Les provides above is to a significantly expanded version of the interview initially posted on the ‘Lateline’ website – some interesting differences / editorial decisions emerge.
Most interesting question from my perspective was in regards to whether Yingluck actually wants to be PM, to which Thaksin responds (paraphrasing him here) ‘not really, she’d rather continue in business’.
As to AW’s interview above, the revered-reviled dichotomy was a masterstroke in analysis and communication.
He did quite well until asked about human rights abuses while he was prime minister where he seemed to stumble a bit. A shame the interviewer didn’t follow up on this.
I must say the use of the word junta was quite clever for the international market. Is that new from him? Maybe something Amsterdam has suggested?
Once upon a time (1990-1992) there was a land called Ragaan, located somewhere between Thailand and Malaysia, and once a week the ABC would present the despatches of the Australian ambassador, Michael Clayton, reporting on the doings of the Islamic government of President Tariq Abdullah.
Ragaan, alas, is no more, but a new nation has emerged in its place. It is called To Lae Land, located somewhere between Thailand and Cambodia.
To Lae Land is ruled by Good King Elvis and his beloved wife, Queen Priscilla, but they are in the twilight of their lives and in the fullness of time the throne will pass to either Crown Prince Lurch or perhaps Princess Jumbo Spice (the royal princesses being referred to collectively as “the Spice Girls”).
Government is in the hands of the Western-educated Prime Minister Farang Khi Nok, but waiting in the wings is his evil nemesis Lord Voldemort, who ran the country before being deposed some years ago in a coup d’etat led by the brutal General Fatbastard.
One hopes that the ABC will soon commence weekly reporting on life in To Lae Land.
seems you dont wish to recognise that the army are in unaccountable control of everything in Thailand, including the police
the police cannot move unless the army lets them
Thaksin tried to replace the army commanders with people that would recognise the authority of the elected government and called on the assistance of the police but the army killed off that effort
the army tries to get the police to front their moves to destroy the redshirts but, because the police still have some sense of their duty, the army ends up shooting citizens themselves
Suthep has correctly described the shooting and threatening of politicians except he tries to shift blame away from the army
the army: a dirty octopus with arms in all aspects of Thai society from top to bottom, with weapons “given and received by a grateful populace”
Khun Dum on the army: “a bit haywire…. they should be commended for their general show of restraint rather than be condemned for a few regrettable incidents.”
Well, I guess we could agree with that if it wasn’t for: Tak Bai, Khru Se, 1992, 1976, 1973 and so on. The record speaks louder than base attempts to exonerate murderers, again.
And if the police had done their job, would there have been any need for troups to be deployed?
Were not the Police bought off by Taksin?
And that goes back some time too.
When the police are unable to, or in this case refused to perform their duty, then what choice is there but to use the military?
Unfortunately, they are not trained for policing and it is no surprise things went a bit haywire.
Really they should be commended for their general show of restraint rather than be condemned for a few regrettable incidents.
It could well have been much worse.
But if the police had done their duty, none of it would have happened.
We are glad for many conversations generated by this infographic. Btw, we will address just only the comments directed to the table/infographic.
leeyiankun – 2
Both Abhisit’s administration and economics scores are “average”. Not so hot but not so bad.
Ricardo – 5
The percentile ranking is a good point. But how we evaluated is much simpler (we admit it is not best approach). 3 is for normal rich people (above average middle class), 4 is for a millionaire and 5 is for an exceptional billionare (e.g. Forbes listing or a member of rich tycoon)
Billy Budd – 10
It’s one of our ideas to compare three people (Yingluck/Thaksin/Abhisit) but finally we decide to use official data as possible.
Tukkae – 13
I personally agree that his Sunday show is boring but his day-by-day media war skill is sharp.
For the latter point, it’s “Political Experience” not “Political Skills/Success” so Abhisit who has almost 20 years in politician career and many official titles scores 5 on this point.
Family Income: as @Ricardo pointed out, Abhisit should be at least 4/5 — extreme family wealth, less than Thaksin, but nowhere close to middling. Three stars is more appropriate for someone like, say, Weng Tojirakarn.
Political Experience: Abhisit does not merit 5 stars. He has been around for a while and and a PM for 2 years, but then how many stars should be given to, say Prem, Chuan or Anand Panyarachun or for that matter, Thaksin?
Oral Skills: while Abhisit speaks well and can hold his own in a debate, he’s far from a brilliant public speaker, did he ever make a memorable public speech? He’s smooth, but unremarkable — more akin to a good corporate PR rep, rather than a notable political orator.
Nowhere do I “disregard academic background (for Thai PM candidates)”. On the contrary, I made the point that Yingluck’s money and connections would have gained her admittance to the most prestigious universities – enough that any supposed deficiency in her intellectual/academic ability is very unlikely to have been a bar to her entering one of them.
I do make the rather obvious point (as any employer would readily understand) that two well-documented and successful terms “on the job” as PM make consideration of his much earlier education background relatively irrelevant. If education equips you to “do” and there are many successful years demonstrating such “doing”, then one can’t escape the conclusion that either the education did its job or – failing that – it plainly proved to be no hindrance to the man’s rise. Richard Branson (and many others) would understand this very well.
Judging by recent interviews (particularly ABC’s video version), of course, we’re given to understand that Thaksin is not a candidate for PM in any case. For string-puller-in-chief? Almost certainly. Given that, perhaps people would like to compare Prem’s less than glittering academic background with Thaksin’s?
As for Chuwit, I stand by my comment that he’s a valuable part of the necessary mix in any legislature – 1 out of 500 in this case. If others choose to try and make specious hay with that notion….. up to them.
But why SteveCM will disregard academic background (for Thai PM candidates) could probably be explained by SteveCM highly endorsing a ‘pimp’ (Chuvit!) to the Thai legislature.
Education might be an important thing but hardly a deciding factor, what you said is just a good example of typical Thai elite want na be.
John – 15
Thai way of doing things as you’d surely get knocked down soon enough by those very dinosaurs who have hijacked the culture.
Thailand got this unique problem that we can say anything about the dinosaurs so its really hard to get rid of them, but well, some people are trying.
I suggest that having these MiB fire on soldiers on the 10th. April almost guarantees live fire coming back from the army. Didn’t the day start with a section of red shirts laying siege to the barracks?
Allowing that the 2001 assets verdict was almost certainly a product of political wind-blow rather than neutrally based on the evidence presented (no change there, then), it’s worth noting that the Thai people had the perfect opportunity to register their disgust/displeasure at the decision in the 2005 election.
Actually I think the law about prohibiting politician is very ridiculous what they should do instead is let them declare everything.
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Thailand’s electoral rules
c3
Many thanks for the update.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
So being educated in the West creates great leaders does it? So in the US recently we have had Bush (R) and Obama (D) , both puppets for their Banker overloads, both ran absurd economy destroying debts, both oversaw wars of profit and both oversaw US companies exporting jobs to China. Good stuff.
Both Abbhisit and Yingluk are Elites, the former old money and the latter new money. Both are puppets in their own way and report to their masters, neither offers any long term intelligent plan for the future of the country, although both are buying votes through populism.
The Democrats cannot even win an election without the army helping out, Pheua Thai would probably face another coup if elected. As such the better result is probably Abhisit with his gaggle of experienced Treasury raiding cronies as will probably be more peaceful without yet another military coup. Great choice.
Thailand’s electoral rules
#1
Yes, the party lists returned to the national format.
New Mandala, Thaksin and The Drum
Note that the link Les provides above is to a significantly expanded version of the interview initially posted on the ‘Lateline’ website – some interesting differences / editorial decisions emerge.
Most interesting question from my perspective was in regards to whether Yingluck actually wants to be PM, to which Thaksin responds (paraphrasing him here) ‘not really, she’d rather continue in business’.
As to AW’s interview above, the revered-reviled dichotomy was a masterstroke in analysis and communication.
Both interviews well worth a listen…
New Mandala, Thaksin and The Drum
The ABC interview link is below:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2011/05/30/3231144.htm
He did quite well until asked about human rights abuses while he was prime minister where he seemed to stumble a bit. A shame the interviewer didn’t follow up on this.
I must say the use of the word junta was quite clever for the international market. Is that new from him? Maybe something Amsterdam has suggested?
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Once upon a time (1990-1992) there was a land called Ragaan, located somewhere between Thailand and Malaysia, and once a week the ABC would present the despatches of the Australian ambassador, Michael Clayton, reporting on the doings of the Islamic government of President Tariq Abdullah.
Ragaan, alas, is no more, but a new nation has emerged in its place. It is called To Lae Land, located somewhere between Thailand and Cambodia.
To Lae Land is ruled by Good King Elvis and his beloved wife, Queen Priscilla, but they are in the twilight of their lives and in the fullness of time the throne will pass to either Crown Prince Lurch or perhaps Princess Jumbo Spice (the royal princesses being referred to collectively as “the Spice Girls”).
Government is in the hands of the Western-educated Prime Minister Farang Khi Nok, but waiting in the wings is his evil nemesis Lord Voldemort, who ran the country before being deposed some years ago in a coup d’etat led by the brutal General Fatbastard.
One hopes that the ABC will soon commence weekly reporting on life in To Lae Land.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
billy budd-
Oh really?
Can’t* typo there.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
Tarrin 16
“Thailand got this unique problem that we can say anything about the dinosaurs…..”
Oh really?
New Mandala, Thaksin and The Drum
Oh, dear. You talked about the P word. Guess you’re on that naughty list for Lese Majeste now.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Soonuk Dum 146
seems you dont wish to recognise that the army are in unaccountable control of everything in Thailand, including the police
the police cannot move unless the army lets them
Thaksin tried to replace the army commanders with people that would recognise the authority of the elected government and called on the assistance of the police but the army killed off that effort
the army tries to get the police to front their moves to destroy the redshirts but, because the police still have some sense of their duty, the army ends up shooting citizens themselves
Suthep has correctly described the shooting and threatening of politicians except he tries to shift blame away from the army
the army: a dirty octopus with arms in all aspects of Thai society from top to bottom, with weapons “given and received by a grateful populace”
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Khun Dum on the army: “a bit haywire…. they should be commended for their general show of restraint rather than be condemned for a few regrettable incidents.”
Well, I guess we could agree with that if it wasn’t for: Tak Bai, Khru Se, 1992, 1976, 1973 and so on. The record speaks louder than base attempts to exonerate murderers, again.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Ralph Kramden -145
And if the police had done their job, would there have been any need for troups to be deployed?
Were not the Police bought off by Taksin?
And that goes back some time too.
When the police are unable to, or in this case refused to perform their duty, then what choice is there but to use the military?
Unfortunately, they are not trained for policing and it is no surprise things went a bit haywire.
Really they should be commended for their general show of restraint rather than be condemned for a few regrettable incidents.
It could well have been much worse.
But if the police had done their duty, none of it would have happened.
Thailand’s electoral rules
[…] have been waiting for such an article about Thailand Electoral Rules for weeks and now that I have tried my own yesterday, it comes […]
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
We are glad for many conversations generated by this infographic. Btw, we will address just only the comments directed to the table/infographic.
leeyiankun – 2
Both Abhisit’s administration and economics scores are “average”. Not so hot but not so bad.
Ricardo – 5
The percentile ranking is a good point. But how we evaluated is much simpler (we admit it is not best approach). 3 is for normal rich people (above average middle class), 4 is for a millionaire and 5 is for an exceptional billionare (e.g. Forbes listing or a member of rich tycoon)
Billy Budd – 10
It’s one of our ideas to compare three people (Yingluck/Thaksin/Abhisit) but finally we decide to use official data as possible.
Tukkae – 13
I personally agree that his Sunday show is boring but his day-by-day media war skill is sharp.
For the latter point, it’s “Political Experience” not “Political Skills/Success” so Abhisit who has almost 20 years in politician career and many official titles scores 5 on this point.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
Decent article.
Family Income: as @Ricardo pointed out, Abhisit should be at least 4/5 — extreme family wealth, less than Thaksin, but nowhere close to middling. Three stars is more appropriate for someone like, say, Weng Tojirakarn.
Political Experience: Abhisit does not merit 5 stars. He has been around for a while and and a PM for 2 years, but then how many stars should be given to, say Prem, Chuan or Anand Panyarachun or for that matter, Thaksin?
Oral Skills: while Abhisit speaks well and can hold his own in a debate, he’s far from a brilliant public speaker, did he ever make a memorable public speech? He’s smooth, but unremarkable — more akin to a good corporate PR rep, rather than a notable political orator.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
A day’s start does not define a battle that has been waged for decades (or something like that).
Even that “day” began well before a large section of red shirts tried to prevent troops deploying….
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
Nowhere do I “disregard academic background (for Thai PM candidates)”. On the contrary, I made the point that Yingluck’s money and connections would have gained her admittance to the most prestigious universities – enough that any supposed deficiency in her intellectual/academic ability is very unlikely to have been a bar to her entering one of them.
I do make the rather obvious point (as any employer would readily understand) that two well-documented and successful terms “on the job” as PM make consideration of his much earlier education background relatively irrelevant. If education equips you to “do” and there are many successful years demonstrating such “doing”, then one can’t escape the conclusion that either the education did its job or – failing that – it plainly proved to be no hindrance to the man’s rise. Richard Branson (and many others) would understand this very well.
Judging by recent interviews (particularly ABC’s video version), of course, we’re given to understand that Thaksin is not a candidate for PM in any case. For string-puller-in-chief? Almost certainly. Given that, perhaps people would like to compare Prem’s less than glittering academic background with Thaksin’s?
As for Chuwit, I stand by my comment that he’s a valuable part of the necessary mix in any legislature – 1 out of 500 in this case. If others choose to try and make specious hay with that notion….. up to them.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
Vichai N – 12
But why SteveCM will disregard academic background (for Thai PM candidates) could probably be explained by SteveCM highly endorsing a ‘pimp’ (Chuvit!) to the Thai legislature.
Education might be an important thing but hardly a deciding factor, what you said is just a good example of typical Thai elite want na be.
John – 15
Thai way of doing things as you’d surely get knocked down soon enough by those very dinosaurs who have hijacked the culture.
Thailand got this unique problem that we can say anything about the dinosaurs so its really hard to get rid of them, but well, some people are trying.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Why not start…
Started as –
I suggest that having these MiB fire on soldiers on the 10th. April almost guarantees live fire coming back from the army. Didn’t the day start with a section of red shirts laying siege to the barracks?
Which didn’t bring up too many answers.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
SteveCM
Allowing that the 2001 assets verdict was almost certainly a product of political wind-blow rather than neutrally based on the evidence presented (no change there, then), it’s worth noting that the Thai people had the perfect opportunity to register their disgust/displeasure at the decision in the 2005 election.
Actually I think the law about prohibiting politician is very ridiculous what they should do instead is let them declare everything.