I know this is not a place to write this comment but I want to hear your view on election in Singapore. Why nobody here pose any comments as you do with Thailand or Cambodia?
The investigation clusterfuck of Oct. 7 is even made worse as Dr. Pornthip used the then not but now completely discredited G200 device at the scene. We simply cannot state with certainty what caused her death.
One thing though i can state with certainty – Dr. Pornthip did not personally examine the body. The PAD and the relatives removed the body from the morgue against the wishes of the police and gave it a very quick funeral.
Nevertheless – the police is wrong when it states that the RDX charge in the teargas canisters is not able to do serious damage.
It depends on the University and curriculum they design for the students.
For instance, at Ramkamhang University, students can choose to major in public administration, political and governance or international relations. I believe at Thammasat, they also offer similar majors to their students.
So, what do ‘we in Australia’ call ‘Bachelor of Public Administration (Thai: р╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Щр╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Хр╕гр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ур╕Ср╕┤р╕Х)’ offered in many Thai universities? ….Political science???
AFP quotes Somsak surmising that the charges relate to “a two-part article he wrote about the king’s youngest daughter, Thai Princess Chulabhorn, who he believes is not protected by the lese majeste rules.” If anyone knows more about this article, or can point me to anything on it (ideallyy in English), I’d be grateful.
@Mahamekian, I don’t see many “We Love the King” stickers in English. Most of the ones I see, including the one we used to have one our car, say “Rao Rak Nailuang” in Thai language, with a heart denoting “Rak”.
@Elizabeth Fitzgerald, very good point about which language is easier for people to spell rapidly via body placement!
Everyone, please excuse my ignorance, but – what is “No 112” about? I’m clueless but would like to understand the message. Thanks in advance to whoever has time to explain.
…but hey, if it is conspiracy theories that float your boat, stay with it. Dude.
It’s a bit pointless Andrew if you are going to behave like a kid and avoid answering any question. Then again I have no idea how old you are, so you may be quite right to act childishly.
There were two forensic investigations – one that was performed by a Ramthibodi doctor on the corpse, that Pornthip OK’ed, and one counter investigation by police some time later, but only on her remaining clothes, which found RDX on her pants, and another explosive not contained in the teargas on her blouse or bra
Now I think either BKK post is wrong (actually not that I give them any credit) or you get confused somewhere.
The latest police finding indicated that Nong Bo might have been killed by explosive because they have found traces of C4 explosive on the victim├втВмтДвs clothes and bra. The police also claimed that all their tear gas imported from China, the United States and Spain did not contain C4 explosive but only RDX substance (cyclotrimethylene trinitramine).
The police finding was however questioned by Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunant, director of the Justice Ministry├втВмтДвs forensic institute. She said C4 explosive could never be found on the victim├втВмтДвs body or clothing because C4 is just a trade name of an explosive product. She insisted that RDX substance which was found in tear gas had been detected on the victim├втВмтДвs clothing.
Its not that I believe the police since C4 is made up of RDX anyway. However, claiming that the trace of RDX was found on her cloth doesn’t prove anything since it could come from either gas canister or the pingpong bomb. However, what more puzzling is that the police claimed that their teargas canister doesn’t contain RDX. Of casuse, Porntip argue otherwise. It is also suggessted in the article that she was the one who claimed that they found trances of RDX everywhere.
I have no idea who killed those poor people. All I know is who stood to gain more from their killing. I don’t think it was the Army who had – not – killed them for so many weeks. Perhaps they just got frustrated though?
There was a lot of frustration, on both sides. A lot more on the side of the fellows spoiling for a fight. I remember they were frustrated, to the point of fury.
Of course, we must not pretend we are foolish enough to believe that military grade rifles are a terribly hard thing to get, in Thailand. One would think a General, would not find it overly difficult to acquire some. Perhaps as easily as giving a Corporal an order. Or taking one, from a soldier who forgot he was armed, as he started fighting with unarmed fellows, getting beaten badly. He would have felt silly waking up in hospital, without his rifle, plus the embarrassment of forgetting he had one as he got his butt kicked by guys who didn’t have one.
At least not in the AM of April 9. The PM, I remember being a different story altogether on the rifle holding.
Yes, now we can start feeling pity toward yellow guys like Sonthi and Chamlong who have outlived their usefulness. These two guys keep shouting and persuading people via astv radio/tv to oppose Abhisit but unluckily the masses have deserted them. Mark knows this and slowly the long arm of law is catching up with them (of course with the blessings of the invisible hand too).
One could also surmise that putting 10k heavily armed troops from an Army with a very well-deserved reputation for staging massacres on the streets and then shooting nurses and unarmed protesters with snipers was a tad “provocative” but hey, if it is conspiracy theories that float your boat, stay with it. Dude.
The LM news will probably continued to be buried in media until there’s a more sensational angle. If PT starts making it a campaign issue, or if LM is used against a candidate from any party. Until then no establishment entity (Dems, PT, Thaksin, PAD, Army, Prem, Nation, Post, ThaiRath) has anything to gain by shining a light on the 112 abuses. The general public will, as always, avoid anything that makes them uncomfortable, such as being reminded that they live under martial law and are clinging to a dying king.
Even if PT wins on July 3, forms a coalition, and stares down the army, what would be their motive to repeal 112? Surely easier to use traditional methods of influence to make sure their own people are acquitted of 112 charges, than take a moral stand against a law they might wish to wield as their own establishment weapon against PAD-type opposition later on?
Even the return of Thaksin under PT amnesty doesn’t herald a repeal of 112. Having regained power, Thaksin would have no motive to give the PAD a hook for their republican accusations. Having outlived their usefulness as agitators, Somsak and other prisoners of conscience might be cut adrift by the new bosses, same as the old bosses.
I’d love to see PT make 112 repeal one of their poster promises, but so far it looks like “an iPad for every child” is preferred.
Tom Hoy: Great line – some politicians are “more banned than others”!
Not just Newin, but Banharn as well. As I recall, these banned pols, as de facto leaders of coalition parties, are even invited to strategy meetings of coalition leaders (including the Democrat party).
Thaksin pulled out all the stops in his recent speech, but maybe because he plans to keep a low profile now that the house has been dissolved and the election is officially, um, contemplated.
Andrew what is this dude business. Are you having flashbacks to some seventies sit-com or something?
So anyway I give the reasons why I think my theory is possible including what was said by Thaksin and his supporters in 2009. I suggest that having these MiB fire on soldiers on the 10th. April almost guarantees live fire coming back from the army. Didn’t the day start with a section of red shirts laying siege to the barracks?
Of course you should be able to give similar backup to the other possibilities of what started it, but I do suspect the answer lies in what did happen on the 10th. April.
I do notice you are ignoring my question on Thaksin’s latest promise of clearing up the drug problem within a year of returning. Any reason?
TU – do you mean “EC” (Election Commission) rather than “EU”?
If yes, then I suspect that Thaksin has already had ample evidence of what the EC – and, beyond it, the Constitution Court etc – are capable of doing. The dismissal of the two cases against the Democrats surely illustrates that. Whether about Newin, PAD, Democrats etc – the “double standards” accusations clearly cut very little ice with those actually making the decisions.
I will concede that the long-delayed cases against PAD members are finally grinding towards a resolution – but one can’t help but notice that even this faltering “progress” comes at a time when PAD is largely seen as having outlived its usefulness to those in office and, presumably, to the powers-that-be behind them.
Dude, you and Vichai are like a tag team who can’t even be bothered to read the arguments you are railing against.
Here are my words from comment 79
“Maybe the MiB were acting under orders of the Red Shirt leadership. Maybe they were agent provocateurs. Maybe they were acting independently of both the Red Shirts and government. And maybe it was a mix of all three.”
I have no idea at all who the MiB were and who they were directly affiliated to and taking orders from. And nor does anyone else. All we have are theories. Several of which are plausible but no substantive evidence exists for any.
But the weakest one is most certainly the one that suggests Thaksin staged the mass murder of his own supporters.
Superanonymous
My comments drip with sarcasm because some of the arguments posited here are absurd nonsense.
Coming up with oddball conspiracy theories despite the overwhelming evidence that the Thai Army killed and shot people is worthy of derision.
I mean the same argument you’re putting forward could be made about what is now happening in Syria or Libya.
“The protesters and the opposition knew they’d be gunned down. It was an obvious ploy to get some martyrs and provoke an uprising.”
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If tomorrow never comes…
I know this is not a place to write this comment but I want to hear your view on election in Singapore. Why nobody here pose any comments as you do with Thailand or Cambodia?
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
“Tarrin”:
The investigation clusterfuck of Oct. 7 is even made worse as Dr. Pornthip used the then not but now completely discredited G200 device at the scene. We simply cannot state with certainty what caused her death.
One thing though i can state with certainty – Dr. Pornthip did not personally examine the body. The PAD and the relatives removed the body from the morgue against the wishes of the police and gave it a very quick funeral.
Nevertheless – the police is wrong when it states that the RDX charge in the teargas canisters is not able to do serious damage.
Thai Studies conference in Melbourne
Nawat,
Thumps up for your approach. If you want your voice and ideas reflected, come join us.
Nick,
Can you repeat your question again please? I miss your question because of other contexts in your previous posts.
and please do not be angry when I challenge you please. I will never say anything in the line of Thais do this and Farangs do that ….trust me. really.
Thai students, political animals
Dear Stephen,
It depends on the University and curriculum they design for the students.
For instance, at Ramkamhang University, students can choose to major in public administration, political and governance or international relations. I believe at Thammasat, they also offer similar majors to their students.
Thai students, political animals
@Stephen Johnson
Is that right?
So, what do ‘we in Australia’ call ‘Bachelor of Public Administration (Thai: р╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Щр╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Хр╕гр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ур╕Ср╕┤р╕Х)’ offered in many Thai universities? ….Political science???
Thanapol on lese majeste
AFP quotes Somsak surmising that the charges relate to “a two-part article he wrote about the king’s youngest daughter, Thai Princess Chulabhorn, who he believes is not protected by the lese majeste rules.” If anyone knows more about this article, or can point me to anything on it (ideallyy in English), I’d be grateful.
[email protected]
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
So dudettes… AI…. ?
Anti-lese majeste flash mob
@Mahamekian, I don’t see many “We Love the King” stickers in English. Most of the ones I see, including the one we used to have one our car, say “Rao Rak Nailuang” in Thai language, with a heart denoting “Rak”.
@Elizabeth Fitzgerald, very good point about which language is easier for people to spell rapidly via body placement!
Everyone, please excuse my ignorance, but – what is “No 112” about? I’m clueless but would like to understand the message. Thanks in advance to whoever has time to explain.
Thai Studies conference in Melbourne
@Kerrie…
Your comment has just justified the importance of the conference.
To All..
What do you want to achieve here? I really don’t understand….
Shouldn’t we spend our time developing a proposal? Come to Melbourne and get our voice heard…
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Andrew Spooner – 123
…but hey, if it is conspiracy theories that float your boat, stay with it. Dude.
It’s a bit pointless Andrew if you are going to behave like a kid and avoid answering any question. Then again I have no idea how old you are, so you may be quite right to act childishly.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Nick Nostitz – 118
There were two forensic investigations – one that was performed by a Ramthibodi doctor on the corpse, that Pornthip OK’ed, and one counter investigation by police some time later, but only on her remaining clothes, which found RDX on her pants, and another explosive not contained in the teargas on her blouse or bra
Now I think either BKK post is wrong (actually not that I give them any credit) or you get confused somewhere.
According to his BKKPost article
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/136906/more-confusion-about-nong-bo-death
The latest police finding indicated that Nong Bo might have been killed by explosive because they have found traces of C4 explosive on the victim├втВмтДвs clothes and bra. The police also claimed that all their tear gas imported from China, the United States and Spain did not contain C4 explosive but only RDX substance (cyclotrimethylene trinitramine).
The police finding was however questioned by Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunant, director of the Justice Ministry├втВмтДвs forensic institute. She said C4 explosive could never be found on the victim├втВмтДвs body or clothing because C4 is just a trade name of an explosive product. She insisted that RDX substance which was found in tear gas had been detected on the victim├втВмтДвs clothing.
Its not that I believe the police since C4 is made up of RDX anyway. However, claiming that the trace of RDX was found on her cloth doesn’t prove anything since it could come from either gas canister or the pingpong bomb. However, what more puzzling is that the police claimed that their teargas canister doesn’t contain RDX. Of casuse, Porntip argue otherwise. It is also suggessted in the article that she was the one who claimed that they found trances of RDX everywhere.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
I have no idea who killed those poor people. All I know is who stood to gain more from their killing. I don’t think it was the Army who had – not – killed them for so many weeks. Perhaps they just got frustrated though?
There was a lot of frustration, on both sides. A lot more on the side of the fellows spoiling for a fight. I remember they were frustrated, to the point of fury.
Of course, we must not pretend we are foolish enough to believe that military grade rifles are a terribly hard thing to get, in Thailand. One would think a General, would not find it overly difficult to acquire some. Perhaps as easily as giving a Corporal an order. Or taking one, from a soldier who forgot he was armed, as he started fighting with unarmed fellows, getting beaten badly. He would have felt silly waking up in hospital, without his rifle, plus the embarrassment of forgetting he had one as he got his butt kicked by guys who didn’t have one.
At least not in the AM of April 9. The PM, I remember being a different story altogether on the rifle holding.
Thaksin is back!
SteveCM, sorry it should have been EC, not EU
Yes, now we can start feeling pity toward yellow guys like Sonthi and Chamlong who have outlived their usefulness. These two guys keep shouting and persuading people via astv radio/tv to oppose Abhisit but unluckily the masses have deserted them. Mark knows this and slowly the long arm of law is catching up with them (of course with the blessings of the invisible hand too).
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Les,
One could also surmise that putting 10k heavily armed troops from an Army with a very well-deserved reputation for staging massacres on the streets and then shooting nurses and unarmed protesters with snipers was a tad “provocative” but hey, if it is conspiracy theories that float your boat, stay with it. Dude.
😉
Thanapol on lese majeste
The LM news will probably continued to be buried in media until there’s a more sensational angle. If PT starts making it a campaign issue, or if LM is used against a candidate from any party. Until then no establishment entity (Dems, PT, Thaksin, PAD, Army, Prem, Nation, Post, ThaiRath) has anything to gain by shining a light on the 112 abuses. The general public will, as always, avoid anything that makes them uncomfortable, such as being reminded that they live under martial law and are clinging to a dying king.
Even if PT wins on July 3, forms a coalition, and stares down the army, what would be their motive to repeal 112? Surely easier to use traditional methods of influence to make sure their own people are acquitted of 112 charges, than take a moral stand against a law they might wish to wield as their own establishment weapon against PAD-type opposition later on?
Even the return of Thaksin under PT amnesty doesn’t herald a repeal of 112. Having regained power, Thaksin would have no motive to give the PAD a hook for their republican accusations. Having outlived their usefulness as agitators, Somsak and other prisoners of conscience might be cut adrift by the new bosses, same as the old bosses.
I’d love to see PT make 112 repeal one of their poster promises, but so far it looks like “an iPad for every child” is preferred.
Thaksin is back!
Tom Hoy: Great line – some politicians are “more banned than others”!
Not just Newin, but Banharn as well. As I recall, these banned pols, as de facto leaders of coalition parties, are even invited to strategy meetings of coalition leaders (including the Democrat party).
Thaksin pulled out all the stops in his recent speech, but maybe because he plans to keep a low profile now that the house has been dissolved and the election is officially, um, contemplated.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Andrew Spooner – 120
Andrew what is this dude business. Are you having flashbacks to some seventies sit-com or something?
So anyway I give the reasons why I think my theory is possible including what was said by Thaksin and his supporters in 2009. I suggest that having these MiB fire on soldiers on the 10th. April almost guarantees live fire coming back from the army. Didn’t the day start with a section of red shirts laying siege to the barracks?
Of course you should be able to give similar backup to the other possibilities of what started it, but I do suspect the answer lies in what did happen on the 10th. April.
I do notice you are ignoring my question on Thaksin’s latest promise of clearing up the drug problem within a year of returning. Any reason?
Thaksin is back!
c9
TU – do you mean “EC” (Election Commission) rather than “EU”?
If yes, then I suspect that Thaksin has already had ample evidence of what the EC – and, beyond it, the Constitution Court etc – are capable of doing. The dismissal of the two cases against the Democrats surely illustrates that. Whether about Newin, PAD, Democrats etc – the “double standards” accusations clearly cut very little ice with those actually making the decisions.
I will concede that the long-delayed cases against PAD members are finally grinding towards a resolution – but one can’t help but notice that even this faltering “progress” comes at a time when PAD is largely seen as having outlived its usefulness to those in office and, presumably, to the powers-that-be behind them.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Was any official enquiry or autopsy made on the guy whose truck apparently was loaded with explosives and blew him up?
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Les Abbey
Dude, you and Vichai are like a tag team who can’t even be bothered to read the arguments you are railing against.
Here are my words from comment 79
“Maybe the MiB were acting under orders of the Red Shirt leadership. Maybe they were agent provocateurs. Maybe they were acting independently of both the Red Shirts and government. And maybe it was a mix of all three.”
I have no idea at all who the MiB were and who they were directly affiliated to and taking orders from. And nor does anyone else. All we have are theories. Several of which are plausible but no substantive evidence exists for any.
But the weakest one is most certainly the one that suggests Thaksin staged the mass murder of his own supporters.
Superanonymous
My comments drip with sarcasm because some of the arguments posited here are absurd nonsense.
Coming up with oddball conspiracy theories despite the overwhelming evidence that the Thai Army killed and shot people is worthy of derision.
I mean the same argument you’re putting forward could be made about what is now happening in Syria or Libya.
“The protesters and the opposition knew they’d be gunned down. It was an obvious ploy to get some martyrs and provoke an uprising.”