“So Andrew is it completely beyond your imagination that Thaksin was capable of having armed men (MiB) out on the 10th. April 2010 to kick things off…..”
Not to preempt Andrew’s response, but it’s certainly not beyond my imagination. But then, it’s also not at all beyond my imagination that various of the authorities/powers-that-be were deeply perturbed by the conspicuous failure of the daytime April 10 dispersal attempts and the (for them) embarrassing situation of supposedly elite combat-ready troops engaged in nothing more assertive than a stand-off DJ-contest playing music over their truck speakers while the protesters did the same with their equipment.
Couple that discomforting scenario with the preceding almost entirely peaceful and very tightly-run nature of the protest since it began in March – flatly contradicting the government’s/government media mouthpieces’ dire predictions of imminent mob mayhem – as well as with the astonishing level of overwhelmingly positive reaction from Bangkokians to the red motorcade tour of the city. Then it seems to me you have the key ingredients for someone with means to decide that this situation was clearly not living up to expectations. Thus the first shots and explosions where Thanon Dinso runs to the Democracy Monument….. triggering the long-predicted but (inconveniently?) previously absent mayhem.
Is it impossible/unimaginable for that triggering to have been initiated by one (or more) of the following?
1. Thaksin “undercover” hitmen
2. Redshirt hardline clique
3. RTA senior commanders generally
4. RTA hardline/royalist clique
5. RTA anti-Prayuth-group faction
6. A “third hand” – with multiple choices as to whose hand it is
The answer, I suggest is a clear “no” – and others might yet want to add further candidates, particularly to identify who those “third hand” options might include.
Given all the smoke-and-mirrors and very limited clear key evidence, we are left weighing probabilities based on the logic/assessment of means and motive; the opportunity was available to all candidates. I don’t dismiss LesAbbey’s chosen hypothesis as impossible, but I do wonder why he seems to resolutely ignore the others – many of which have a very considerable weight of at least circumstantial evidence and logic to support them.
You have to understand the situation then. There were pitched battles going on between police and PAD, the PAD moving closer and closer to the police, firing volleys of slingshot projectiles, and the police then firing volleys of teargas grenades in relatively close distance. It was dark, and very scary.
I have to say though that there were not lots of ping pong bombs on the ground then, not that i noticed. There was lots of rubbish, and lots of marbles, ball bearings, and screws.
At the same moment Nong Bo was hit also another PAD protester lost his leg as well.
There were two forensic investigations – one that was performed by a Ramthibodi doctor on the corpse, that Pornthip OK’ed, and one counter investigation by police some time later, but only on her remaining clothes, which found RDX on her pants, and another explosive not contained in the teargas on her blouse or bra. Ripped bag? I am not sure. On my photos of Nong Bo at the scene you can see her carrying a shoulder bad that was intact.
What i am saying here is that the investigations about Nong Bo’s death are not 100% conclusive. But there is no doubt whatsoever that police used the wrong teargas the wrong way, and that has resulted in horrific injuries. But that does also not excuse the PAD, which has used horrific violence as well, and some PAD guards have also shot police officers.
I remember that at the time inane conspiracy theories made the round, such as claims that one of the men who lost his leg there was previously amputated, and only playacted. This one, for example, i can clearly confirm, was not staged. I have photographed the man just after he lost his leg, and it was unfortunately very real.
I have also photographed him nearly a year later during the party founding of the New Politics Party, and you can compare the two photos and see that they scars are absolutely consistent with the wounds he received.
There may be a good deal of truth in the argument attributed to Peter Warr by billyd (1) that Thaksin’s appeal to rural voters was largely fraudulent. It is also possible that, if his government had not been illegally deposed, many rural voters would have woken up by now, and support for Thaksin would have declined. I suspect that without the thuggish military-monarchist political intervention, the Thaksin phenomenon would have already run its course, Thailand would not now be behaving like a rogue state, and the King’s popularity would be higher than ever.
It was once explained to me that “political science” at a Thai university is what we in Australia would call “public administration” and is the course of choice for the aspiring public servant, not one for a political commentator.
(Tarrin#116) “As I said earlier, she was hit in her armpit, a very odd place to be hit considered if that’s really the case she should be holding her hand up for some reason.”
You’re not thinking very hard on this. I don’t think it is too wild to speculate that many people, if they saw something hurtling through the air at them or exploding nearby, might put their hand up in front of their face to shield their eyes.
Thaksin may have thought: if they don’t take action against Newin who openly violated political ban by mixing with Abhisit, I will do the same and let us see what the EU will do. Political ban has been violated by practically every one and EU says nothing. People, whether they are yellow or red, also know there are double standard practices, but only against Thaksin.
The common defence at the heart of a typical Thai riposte is: “You don’t understand Thailand because you are not Thai”. It’s New Mandala’s version of Godwin’s Law. Once reached, there really is no point carrying on. It’s my own personal cue to roll my eyes and chalk up another exercise in futility.
It’s already been pointed out that this conference was founded on this very theme. In the preamble, the conference producers blame Thailand’s sufferings on “poor understanding of contemporary Thai state and society”. So here we go again.
This, for me, and especially the fact that the Thai embassy’s political fingerprints are all over it, pretty much discredited this conference from the start. Judging by the comments here, they haven’t fooled too many other NM readers either.
But there are people who would like to submit papers. Nattavud pimpa should start again, this time without the Thai embassy’s seal and a clear expression of welcome for all topics, including political views on lese majeste, the royal family, and the red shirt movement that are not endorsed or welcomed by the embassy. Until then, I’m sceptical about this conference’s value. Those who do participate will probably self-censor their submissions with one eye on the elephant in the room.
In terms of the famous Nong Bo, it is not entirely sure if she indeed died of her own explosives, or of the Chinsese teargas canisters with RDX charges.
As I said earlier, she was hit in her armpit, a very odd place to be hit considered if that’s really the case she should be holding her hand up for some reason. Furthermore, you can’t simply disregard the fact that there were pingpong bomb laying around everywhere. Just because the teargas can explode doesn’t mean the pingpong bomb can’t do the same. Note that Nong Bo hand bag was shredded if that’s ever indicated anything.
the second investigation performed by police forensics was only done on the remains on her clothes, and found both RDX on her trousers, and possibly traces of the explosive used in ping pong bombs on her blouse.
Are you sure its from the police forensics? I’ve checked around and it was actually Central Institute of Forensic Science that did the test and found RDX.
“I don’t know what’s the PAD plan was, but most of the casualties from the 7th October crash were mainly from the improvise explosive”
Sorry Tarrin, but that is not true.
In terms of the famous Nong Bo, it is not entirely sure if she indeed died of her own explosives, or of the Chinsese teargas canisters with RDX charges. The autopsy performed on her in Ramathibody Hospital was not exact enough (and not done by Pornthip, who only went through the results, but has not seen the corspe), the second investigation performed by police forensics was only done on the remains on her clothes, and found both RDX on her trousers, and possibly traces of the explosive used in ping pong bombs on her blouse. This is also not a conclusive result. It would need a third an independent investigation.
The investigation of the second corpse that day was conclusive, and it was his own explosives.
The torn of limbs were most definitely a result of the Chinese teargas, which contains enough explosive to tear limbs off (this would not have been the first time such things happened – in other countries there were in the past incidents with similar injuries).
I have been there, and i was at one point nearly hit by one of these canisters. While i jumped over it, it went off with a tremendous blast.
Colleagues of mine were hit by shrapnel during the protests, and they saw exactly what hit them.
I do not blame the police though as having intentionally maimed the PAD protesters, as they have not understood what they had at hand there. They have not trained with these particular canisters, and were supplied only that morning with these canisters.
But it certainly wasn’t just Thaksin involved in supporting and sustaining that particular bloodbath even though I completely agree that Dr T (and everyone else) should be fully investigated and held accountable.
So Andrew is it completely beyond your imagination that Thaksin was capable of having armed men (MiB) out on the 10th. April 2010 to kick things off so that he wouldn’t have the same embarrassment as 2009? If it is, is that because his calling new elections shows you that he was incapable of such a violent idea? Do you really see this inherent goodness in the man’s character? I have to admit I don’t.
April the 10th. was of course the day when it could have been a repeat of 2009 with the army rolling up the demonstration like they did before.
Just off subject a bit Andrew, what is your view of Thaksin’s recent promise to end the drug problem within a year if he comes back? What do you think he means by this? Should human rights groups be worried?
The matyres that you are talking about got some really shady background. Nong Bow got hot by “explosive” underneath her armpit, how was that suppose to happened was still a mystery. Porntip sort of blaming the police for using outdated tear gas canister, which was really retarded since a gas canister contain about 15g of explosive which can barely do any harm. Furthermore, in order that to happen she would have to be raising her hand when she got hit so how was that even possible was indeed puzzling. On the other hand the police found hundred of unused “ping pong bomb” scarred around the venue. The bomb contain small amount of high explosive enough to blew a chunk of meat out.
Another case was a man who was found blinded from explosion and one of his hand got blew away. Surprisingly he was still holding a pingpong bomb in another hand, afraid that it would explode if he released it.
I don’t know what’s the PAD plan was, but most of the casualties from the 7th October crash were mainly from the improvise explosive where the apr-may 2010 crash we can actually see the video clip of solders shooting into Wat Pratum. Should take that fact into consideration.
I felt like Peter Warr shouldn’t blurb out the 2,500 bodies war on drug the way he did since that number was taken from the total number of homicides throughout the period of 2 and a half month. It is just irresponsible to even be quoting that number since it was really misleading.
I can and have read, in P─Бli, some of the sources you quote – there is a link to my blog here and my published work, though slim does at least demonstrate a basic facility with Pali and Sanskrit. Clearly the canon seems to universally represents the Buddha as bald, and art (all of which dates from at least several centuries after his death) almost universally with hair. I think your facts are in order, and your conclusion is far from illogical. However, I’m not as concerned as you are about the difference, and indeed I’m not sure that it was worth a long article. I don’t want to be seen to stray into ad hominem arguments, but having read your text, I was left wondering about subtexts.
Things appear that contradict the texts because Buddhism is a living tradition; and the texts are an imperfect record; and the texts often contradict themselves! The Pali Canon is not the sole measure of orthodoxy in the modern Therav─Бda surely? There is centuries of local custom. Buddhism is not only what’s in the books, but also lives in the practices of the people. I.e. Therav─Бda Buddhism is not entirely Protestant in outlook as you seem to suggest, but rather more Catholic. It is fair to say that few people these days are conversant with the Pali Canon. And yet look at Christian art. Images of Jesus, God, and the Devil etc. all owe far more to Renaissance painters, and Dante and Milton than to the Bible. You don’t really seem to have made the case for this being a massive problem. If anything it seems to have been advantageous. Hair on Buddha’s in art is so widespread that an appeal to the P─Бli Canon hardly seems sufficient – the whole Buddhist world adopted this convention from the earliest depictions. How do we weigh the relative value of such facts? I would say that it’s at least as significant as the apparent consistency of the Pali texts – at least we know that no one has gone back and edited the images wholesale a few centuries later!
In fact the biography of the Buddha is so fragmentary and internally contradictory that I would not feel confident of making any strong historical argument based on the Pali texts – though again I do not dispute that in the texts the Buddha is described as bald, I do not believe that we can conclude from this that he was – only that the authors of the texts agree that he was; and disagree with the artists. What was his name? Gautama – a high status Brahmin name? Was he married? With a son? What age did he leave home? Many such questions find multiple answers in the canon itself. The story of cutting off his hair does not, from memory, occur in the Ariyapariyesan─Б Sutta does it? So if the tyranny of chronology applies then there is at least some doubt about the story being original, since the Ariyapariyesan─Б is widely agreed to be early.
Anyway, I look forward to reading your other article on unpopular facts. Good to see someone else writing seriously about Buddhism on the internet – amongst all the popularist dross!
Best Wishes
Jayarava
PS I enjoyed your responses to the comments very much 🙂
leeyiankun 1
Re Thaksin. . “There’ll be obstacles, opponents to his new reign”
Aye, there’s the rub. . . be careful what you wish for.
I don’t think the start of a Shinawatra dynasty is a first step toward true democracy. But how many thais are ready for that anyway?
Would the house of Shinawatra be putting any kind of anti-demagogic civil responsibility education into the system when a fully functional repressive system is already in place and for hire to the highest bidder?
I think it is unfair to say Thai(s) response to points they do not agree with. why?
1) not all Thais act that way. It is naive to assume the validity of this statement. Human behaviour is far more complex than one’s nationality. Again, in my life I have seen a number of people (regardless of his/her nationality) act in various ways.
2) I never agree, in my whole life, with the discourse of farang-Thai. It is too easy to make a a claim such as yours, without an empirical evidence.
Like any culture, we need to look at diversity in academic. The conference is multi-facet and I think you truly understand the concept of dimensions of society. Politic is one thing, but we have another issues to move on.
It is my pleasure to share just a thought with you today indeed.
Talent Corp for me is just another political white wash as there is a general Election looming not far away. Knowing our PM very well, he is an opportunist who likes to paint beautiful pictures hiding the garbage dump at the back of it.
If you look at Talent corp it is very much interested in bringing back the Malay expats, and secondly wants Non-malays to invest in malaysia as the FDI is on free fall. I bet after the next GE, the will be no more news on this Talent corp headed by another umno malay who is possibly a member of perkasa.
What Malaysis need to do is try to retain the young non malays in malaysia first before going on a wild goose hunt.
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Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
c115
“So Andrew is it completely beyond your imagination that Thaksin was capable of having armed men (MiB) out on the 10th. April 2010 to kick things off…..”
Not to preempt Andrew’s response, but it’s certainly not beyond my imagination. But then, it’s also not at all beyond my imagination that various of the authorities/powers-that-be were deeply perturbed by the conspicuous failure of the daytime April 10 dispersal attempts and the (for them) embarrassing situation of supposedly elite combat-ready troops engaged in nothing more assertive than a stand-off DJ-contest playing music over their truck speakers while the protesters did the same with their equipment.
Couple that discomforting scenario with the preceding almost entirely peaceful and very tightly-run nature of the protest since it began in March – flatly contradicting the government’s/government media mouthpieces’ dire predictions of imminent mob mayhem – as well as with the astonishing level of overwhelmingly positive reaction from Bangkokians to the red motorcade tour of the city. Then it seems to me you have the key ingredients for someone with means to decide that this situation was clearly not living up to expectations. Thus the first shots and explosions where Thanon Dinso runs to the Democracy Monument….. triggering the long-predicted but (inconveniently?) previously absent mayhem.
Is it impossible/unimaginable for that triggering to have been initiated by one (or more) of the following?
1. Thaksin “undercover” hitmen
2. Redshirt hardline clique
3. RTA senior commanders generally
4. RTA hardline/royalist clique
5. RTA anti-Prayuth-group faction
6. A “third hand” – with multiple choices as to whose hand it is
The answer, I suggest is a clear “no” – and others might yet want to add further candidates, particularly to identify who those “third hand” options might include.
Given all the smoke-and-mirrors and very limited clear key evidence, we are left weighing probabilities based on the logic/assessment of means and motive; the opportunity was available to all candidates. I don’t dismiss LesAbbey’s chosen hypothesis as impossible, but I do wonder why he seems to resolutely ignore the others – many of which have a very considerable weight of at least circumstantial evidence and logic to support them.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
“Tarrin”:
You have to understand the situation then. There were pitched battles going on between police and PAD, the PAD moving closer and closer to the police, firing volleys of slingshot projectiles, and the police then firing volleys of teargas grenades in relatively close distance. It was dark, and very scary.
I have to say though that there were not lots of ping pong bombs on the ground then, not that i noticed. There was lots of rubbish, and lots of marbles, ball bearings, and screws.
At the same moment Nong Bo was hit also another PAD protester lost his leg as well.
There were two forensic investigations – one that was performed by a Ramthibodi doctor on the corpse, that Pornthip OK’ed, and one counter investigation by police some time later, but only on her remaining clothes, which found RDX on her pants, and another explosive not contained in the teargas on her blouse or bra. Ripped bag? I am not sure. On my photos of Nong Bo at the scene you can see her carrying a shoulder bad that was intact.
What i am saying here is that the investigations about Nong Bo’s death are not 100% conclusive. But there is no doubt whatsoever that police used the wrong teargas the wrong way, and that has resulted in horrific injuries. But that does also not excuse the PAD, which has used horrific violence as well, and some PAD guards have also shot police officers.
I remember that at the time inane conspiracy theories made the round, such as claims that one of the men who lost his leg there was previously amputated, and only playacted. This one, for example, i can clearly confirm, was not staged. I have photographed the man just after he lost his leg, and it was unfortunately very real.
I have also photographed him nearly a year later during the party founding of the New Politics Party, and you can compare the two photos and see that they scars are absolutely consistent with the wounds he received.
Thailand at the Limit podcast and vodcast
There may be a good deal of truth in the argument attributed to Peter Warr by billyd (1) that Thaksin’s appeal to rural voters was largely fraudulent. It is also possible that, if his government had not been illegally deposed, many rural voters would have woken up by now, and support for Thaksin would have declined. I suspect that without the thuggish military-monarchist political intervention, the Thaksin phenomenon would have already run its course, Thailand would not now be behaving like a rogue state, and the King’s popularity would be higher than ever.
Thai students, political animals
It was once explained to me that “political science” at a Thai university is what we in Australia would call “public administration” and is the course of choice for the aspiring public servant, not one for a political commentator.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
(Tarrin#116) “As I said earlier, she was hit in her armpit, a very odd place to be hit considered if that’s really the case she should be holding her hand up for some reason.”
You’re not thinking very hard on this. I don’t think it is too wild to speculate that many people, if they saw something hurtling through the air at them or exploding nearby, might put their hand up in front of their face to shield their eyes.
Thaksin is back!
Thaksin may have thought: if they don’t take action against Newin who openly violated political ban by mixing with Abhisit, I will do the same and let us see what the EU will do. Political ban has been violated by practically every one and EU says nothing. People, whether they are yellow or red, also know there are double standard practices, but only against Thaksin.
Thai Studies conference in Melbourne
“nathavid pimpa,
Nick’s direction questions are very interesting. I would like to know what are your thought on these.
Thai Studies conference in Melbourne
The common defence at the heart of a typical Thai riposte is: “You don’t understand Thailand because you are not Thai”. It’s New Mandala’s version of Godwin’s Law. Once reached, there really is no point carrying on. It’s my own personal cue to roll my eyes and chalk up another exercise in futility.
It’s already been pointed out that this conference was founded on this very theme. In the preamble, the conference producers blame Thailand’s sufferings on “poor understanding of contemporary Thai state and society”. So here we go again.
This, for me, and especially the fact that the Thai embassy’s political fingerprints are all over it, pretty much discredited this conference from the start. Judging by the comments here, they haven’t fooled too many other NM readers either.
But there are people who would like to submit papers. Nattavud pimpa should start again, this time without the Thai embassy’s seal and a clear expression of welcome for all topics, including political views on lese majeste, the royal family, and the red shirt movement that are not endorsed or welcomed by the embassy. Until then, I’m sceptical about this conference’s value. Those who do participate will probably self-censor their submissions with one eye on the elephant in the room.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Nick Nostitz – 115
In terms of the famous Nong Bo, it is not entirely sure if she indeed died of her own explosives, or of the Chinsese teargas canisters with RDX charges.
As I said earlier, she was hit in her armpit, a very odd place to be hit considered if that’s really the case she should be holding her hand up for some reason. Furthermore, you can’t simply disregard the fact that there were pingpong bomb laying around everywhere. Just because the teargas can explode doesn’t mean the pingpong bomb can’t do the same. Note that Nong Bo hand bag was shredded if that’s ever indicated anything.
the second investigation performed by police forensics was only done on the remains on her clothes, and found both RDX on her trousers, and possibly traces of the explosive used in ping pong bombs on her blouse.
Are you sure its from the police forensics? I’ve checked around and it was actually Central Institute of Forensic Science that did the test and found RDX.
Thai students, political animals
Fantastic. Someone put flyers up for NM at Thammasat.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
“Tarrin”:
“I don’t know what’s the PAD plan was, but most of the casualties from the 7th October crash were mainly from the improvise explosive”
Sorry Tarrin, but that is not true.
In terms of the famous Nong Bo, it is not entirely sure if she indeed died of her own explosives, or of the Chinsese teargas canisters with RDX charges. The autopsy performed on her in Ramathibody Hospital was not exact enough (and not done by Pornthip, who only went through the results, but has not seen the corspe), the second investigation performed by police forensics was only done on the remains on her clothes, and found both RDX on her trousers, and possibly traces of the explosive used in ping pong bombs on her blouse. This is also not a conclusive result. It would need a third an independent investigation.
The investigation of the second corpse that day was conclusive, and it was his own explosives.
The torn of limbs were most definitely a result of the Chinese teargas, which contains enough explosive to tear limbs off (this would not have been the first time such things happened – in other countries there were in the past incidents with similar injuries).
I have been there, and i was at one point nearly hit by one of these canisters. While i jumped over it, it went off with a tremendous blast.
Colleagues of mine were hit by shrapnel during the protests, and they saw exactly what hit them.
I do not blame the police though as having intentionally maimed the PAD protesters, as they have not understood what they had at hand there. They have not trained with these particular canisters, and were supplied only that morning with these canisters.
Thai Studies conference in Melbourne
“nattavud pimpa”:
“It is my pleasure to share just a thought with you today indeed.”
Well, thanks for that.
Would you mind also answering the direct questions i have asked you?
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Andrew Spooner – 112
But it certainly wasn’t just Thaksin involved in supporting and sustaining that particular bloodbath even though I completely agree that Dr T (and everyone else) should be fully investigated and held accountable.
So Andrew is it completely beyond your imagination that Thaksin was capable of having armed men (MiB) out on the 10th. April 2010 to kick things off so that he wouldn’t have the same embarrassment as 2009? If it is, is that because his calling new elections shows you that he was incapable of such a violent idea? Do you really see this inherent goodness in the man’s character? I have to admit I don’t.
April the 10th. was of course the day when it could have been a repeat of 2009 with the army rolling up the demonstration like they did before.
Just off subject a bit Andrew, what is your view of Thaksin’s recent promise to end the drug problem within a year if he comes back? What do you think he means by this? Should human rights groups be worried?
Thai Studies conference in Melbourne
Thai army responded to a Thai academic with a lese majeste charge. For empirical evidence, please go to Nang Loeng Police Station today at 10 A.M.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
superanonymous – 111
The matyres that you are talking about got some really shady background. Nong Bow got hot by “explosive” underneath her armpit, how was that suppose to happened was still a mystery. Porntip sort of blaming the police for using outdated tear gas canister, which was really retarded since a gas canister contain about 15g of explosive which can barely do any harm. Furthermore, in order that to happen she would have to be raising her hand when she got hit so how was that even possible was indeed puzzling. On the other hand the police found hundred of unused “ping pong bomb” scarred around the venue. The bomb contain small amount of high explosive enough to blew a chunk of meat out.
Another case was a man who was found blinded from explosion and one of his hand got blew away. Surprisingly he was still holding a pingpong bomb in another hand, afraid that it would explode if he released it.
I don’t know what’s the PAD plan was, but most of the casualties from the 7th October crash were mainly from the improvise explosive where the apr-may 2010 crash we can actually see the video clip of solders shooting into Wat Pratum. Should take that fact into consideration.
Thailand at the Limit podcast and vodcast
I felt like Peter Warr shouldn’t blurb out the 2,500 bodies war on drug the way he did since that number was taken from the total number of homicides throughout the period of 2 and a half month. It is just irresponsible to even be quoting that number since it was really misleading.
The Buddha was bald
Hi Eisel
I can and have read, in P─Бli, some of the sources you quote – there is a link to my blog here and my published work, though slim does at least demonstrate a basic facility with Pali and Sanskrit. Clearly the canon seems to universally represents the Buddha as bald, and art (all of which dates from at least several centuries after his death) almost universally with hair. I think your facts are in order, and your conclusion is far from illogical. However, I’m not as concerned as you are about the difference, and indeed I’m not sure that it was worth a long article. I don’t want to be seen to stray into ad hominem arguments, but having read your text, I was left wondering about subtexts.
Things appear that contradict the texts because Buddhism is a living tradition; and the texts are an imperfect record; and the texts often contradict themselves! The Pali Canon is not the sole measure of orthodoxy in the modern Therav─Бda surely? There is centuries of local custom. Buddhism is not only what’s in the books, but also lives in the practices of the people. I.e. Therav─Бda Buddhism is not entirely Protestant in outlook as you seem to suggest, but rather more Catholic. It is fair to say that few people these days are conversant with the Pali Canon. And yet look at Christian art. Images of Jesus, God, and the Devil etc. all owe far more to Renaissance painters, and Dante and Milton than to the Bible. You don’t really seem to have made the case for this being a massive problem. If anything it seems to have been advantageous. Hair on Buddha’s in art is so widespread that an appeal to the P─Бli Canon hardly seems sufficient – the whole Buddhist world adopted this convention from the earliest depictions. How do we weigh the relative value of such facts? I would say that it’s at least as significant as the apparent consistency of the Pali texts – at least we know that no one has gone back and edited the images wholesale a few centuries later!
In fact the biography of the Buddha is so fragmentary and internally contradictory that I would not feel confident of making any strong historical argument based on the Pali texts – though again I do not dispute that in the texts the Buddha is described as bald, I do not believe that we can conclude from this that he was – only that the authors of the texts agree that he was; and disagree with the artists. What was his name? Gautama – a high status Brahmin name? Was he married? With a son? What age did he leave home? Many such questions find multiple answers in the canon itself. The story of cutting off his hair does not, from memory, occur in the Ariyapariyesan─Б Sutta does it? So if the tyranny of chronology applies then there is at least some doubt about the story being original, since the Ariyapariyesan─Б is widely agreed to be early.
Anyway, I look forward to reading your other article on unpopular facts. Good to see someone else writing seriously about Buddhism on the internet – amongst all the popularist dross!
Best Wishes
Jayarava
PS I enjoyed your responses to the comments very much 🙂
Thaksin is back!
leeyiankun 1
Re Thaksin. . “There’ll be obstacles, opponents to his new reign”
Aye, there’s the rub. . . be careful what you wish for.
I don’t think the start of a Shinawatra dynasty is a first step toward true democracy. But how many thais are ready for that anyway?
Would the house of Shinawatra be putting any kind of anti-demagogic civil responsibility education into the system when a fully functional repressive system is already in place and for hire to the highest bidder?
Thai Studies conference in Melbourne
To Kerrie,
I think it is unfair to say Thai(s) response to points they do not agree with. why?
1) not all Thais act that way. It is naive to assume the validity of this statement. Human behaviour is far more complex than one’s nationality. Again, in my life I have seen a number of people (regardless of his/her nationality) act in various ways.
2) I never agree, in my whole life, with the discourse of farang-Thai. It is too easy to make a a claim such as yours, without an empirical evidence.
Like any culture, we need to look at diversity in academic. The conference is multi-facet and I think you truly understand the concept of dimensions of society. Politic is one thing, but we have another issues to move on.
It is my pleasure to share just a thought with you today indeed.
Why is Malaysia experiencing a brain drain?
Talent Corp for me is just another political white wash as there is a general Election looming not far away. Knowing our PM very well, he is an opportunist who likes to paint beautiful pictures hiding the garbage dump at the back of it.
If you look at Talent corp it is very much interested in bringing back the Malay expats, and secondly wants Non-malays to invest in malaysia as the FDI is on free fall. I bet after the next GE, the will be no more news on this Talent corp headed by another umno malay who is possibly a member of perkasa.
What Malaysis need to do is try to retain the young non malays in malaysia first before going on a wild goose hunt.