I hope everything will be online by the first half of May at the latest.
Andrew is that all the cables or just those you have used in your forthcoming article? It would be a shame if there was a suspicion of cherry-picking. Then again if you would like to immediately release everything you have access to rather than wait until after your scoop I’m sure we could find people to help you on New Mandala.
There is no conspiracy, Sirindhorn is the most active royal bar none. The English language press does not report most of their every day activities, its just not that interesting.
You can get a better idea of what they are up to from the regular ‘royal’ segments on Thai language TV channels, which cover the myriad of openings, meetings, audiences and visitations in excruciating detail.
“S” is the product of a well-honed marketing machine that is spending thousands of hours and millions of dollars in order to make her image into a successful “cult brand” that can then be put on t-shirts, cans of food, bars of candy, energy drinks, flags, photos, etc. in order to sell “reverence”, “loyalty”, “obedience”, “acceptance”, “passivity”, “surrender” and hang onto the 38 bullion USD.
As part of my coverage, I will put the original cables in the public domain. Those who disagree with my interpretation will be able to view all the source material and draw their own conclusions. I hope everything will be online by the first half of May at the latest. I will post updates here.
Andrew Spooner why are your commentaries/articles at Asian Correspondent ‘closed off’ for comments?
If you did then you’ll be delighted to read about what I think about your enlightening dig at Thai politics.
All I said is I am suspicious of journalists/commentaries who preface with loud pronouncements about their honest-to-goodness anti-Thaksin credentials. They don’t have to. All that matters is that they write honestly without fanfare or embellishments.
Your criticisms for the most part about Thailand’s lese majeste laws as heavy-handed do not get any rebuttals from me. Nor your criticisms of wayward royals or the overly paranoid Privy President Prem. You can criticize the current Abhisit regime for its scandals, negligence or perceived dubious legitimacy to rule (very disputable contention to say the least), and for the most part I won’t care unless I spot lies, obfuscations and half-truths.
All my arguments at New Mandala revolved around the dangers of the divisive Thaksin, while he exists, and the violent terror-prone Red Shirts that get his legendary funding, and thus love and his minions of sycophantic party followers at the Peau Thai Party also enamored/addicted to his funding flows.
Hello Andrew, it’s good to hear that the Bangkok and Chiang Mai cables are not going to be lost to public scrutiny. I have been very sorry at the slow speed they have been released so far. I have to admit my biggest fear over recent years has been the return of Thaksin in charge of an authoritarian government. For me that is a bigger immediate danger than anything the palace, the army, the PAD or the Democrats can come up with.
I’m sure in these cables there will be plenty of embarrassment for all parties in Thailand’s recent troubles as well of course as the US government. (I have to add just here that so far Prem, Anand and co have come out of the so far released cables looking not too bad.)
As you know we have an election coming up and that is a worry when the cables aren’t available to the public and there has been a very limited amount of people seeing them. How do you handle this yourself in as far as giving a fair representation of what they contain? Do you have take a very neutral position? Do you think that public viewing of the cables will be achieved before the election?
I find it ridiculous that many Thais always accuse foreigners (or even Thai themselves) who speak against the Thai Government of the Monarchy that they receive money from Thaksin. They should thank level-headed people like Andrew Marshall who sees it as a pathetic joke which should not be taken seriously. Next time why don’t you enrol in LAWS101 to learn that one who alleges (in this case it was one who accuses others of receiving money) must have evidence to prove their allegation, otherwise they are subject to defamation action from the very person whom they accuse ๐
Have you looked at all reports from Wikileaks to see how many governments in the world have had their political secrets leaked out? Thailand has not been singled-out. I might believe that there may be Thaksin’s involvement if the reports contain no other cables of other countries but Thailand. But many governments around the world have had their secrets exposed by Wikileaks. Furthermore, Hillary Clinton herself has come out an said she would make sure ‘no USA cable would leak to the public ever again’…
…and if that is not enough to prove that they are real, I would like to say that I personally was not surprised about its many cables. The cable about the Queen’s complicity in the 2006 coup is a good example. I, as well as many Thais, knew that she certainly has a role from her infamous attendance to that PAD girl funeral on 13 October 2008. Thus I was not surprised in the slightest when Wikileaks revealed that she was behind it. Ask any Thai who is behind the PAD nowadays. Only the extremely stubborn and brainwashed will deny that the Thai Queen has not taken side!
If there is anything which surprised me, it was the fact that Wikileaks proved that even the application of lese majeste law is double standard in Thailand. Three elites have committed lese majeste, and they have never been charged (not that I want to them to be charged or anything. In my opinion this law should be abolished already). And this makes me start to consider Giles Ji Ungpakorn’s theory, that the army is the one who actually has the power, while the Monarchy is the willing ‘rubber stamp’ of the army.
Princess Sirindhorn receives most respect and love from the Thais among the King’s four children. However, I do have doubts whether she is interested in changing Thailand into a proper Constitutional Monarchy country. Don’t forget that after the brutal massacre event of 6 October 1976, it was her (and her sister Chulabhorn) who paid a visit to the hospital to give flowers to the soldiers who were part of the student massacre in Thammasat University.
Furthermore, on 20 Oct 1976, she attended the funeral of the village scout who went into Thammasat University and got killed on the day of the massacre. She also made a speech that what that village scout did show his utmost loyalty to the Monarchy, and it is an exemplary act which Thai people should follow…
Unfortunately, not many younger Thais know about this, as this is not taught in history class. Instead, the elites in Thailand prefer to stuff innocent students’ heads with heroic tales of Kings from ancient era, as those stories are more effective propaganda than the truth on 6 October 1976 or the truth behind King Ananda’s death…
Have to say that Vichai’s attempts to diminish Andrew Marshall’s contribution by smearing him as pro-Thaksin once again reveal Vichai as an absurdly paranoid fantasist.
Why is it that the pro-Thai regime, anti-Red lobby always, always revert to smears, bizarre conspiracy theories, dubious “facts” and irrational argument?
For certain this lobby will always find a readymade audience amongst disaffected barstool expats or the extremists in the PAD. But that’s it. International sentiment is going against them and so they revert to the wilder, the weirder and the nastier.
John,
I do share your concern for the well being of the Mekong River and how important is has been for million depended population. I grew up in the Mekong delta myself. As one of the downstream riparian countries Vietnam’s Mekong Delta is no doubt will be the most affected. The dam will alter the natural river flow patterns in the delta and upset the balance of the ecosystem. Reduction of flow would create problems of salinity intrusion in the lower delta areas. The dam will act as a fish migration barrier, trapping the mountain sediment flow that has been the neutralising sources for the acid sulfate soils problem in the delta for thousand of years. The downstream people have to live with the risk of dam break that would generate such a destructive tsumani wave, destroying everything in it path.
Understanding all that risks and we try our best as the main opposing voices at this stage, raising our concerns with the Mekong River Commission (MRC). Unfortunately the MRC is not a regulatory body and does not have a regulatory power to stop this dam. Without a strong support from the international environmental protection communities, the best Vietnam can do at this stage is delaying the project, giving it time for a proper environmental assessment be carried out, investigating the full impacts with acceptable mitigation strategies for agreement by all stakeholders.
Your suggestion about the most effective protesting mean would be much appreciated.
I have been closely watching and analysing khao nai phra ratchasamnak on Thai news everyday for the past several years especially for news on Princess Sirindhorn. She has been the most active member the royal family for a very long time, as you would have known. However, I’ve noticed for years that she gets much more TV coverage when she visits China. Her annual official China visits are always relatively lengthy and are given much comprehensive coverage on the news. This year’s visit to China was from 4 – 12 April, which might explain the influx in TV coverage.
As for print media coverage, which is at the centre of your discussion here, I’ve subscribed to google news alerts on the keywords ‘sirindhorn’, ‘ัโะบัโะฑัโฃะัโะคัโฃะัโะัโะฎัโะณัโโัโฃะัโะงัโะฎ’, ‘ัะฟะงัะ โัะะชโ etc for years. I have noticed that she’s getting quite a few mentions in the Bangkok Post the past week or two. But this has happened before in the past, especially in the weeks before and after her birthday (2 April) when all and sundry would clamour to organise events to commemorate her birthday. These events are usually not ones to celebrate her birthday per se, but incorporates the celebration into the main event, which are likely to be related to heritage conservation since Sirindhorn’s birthday is also the National Heritage Conservation Day for Thailand. The khon mask dance would be one such event. (Moreover, it would be likely for an event centred on MR Kukrit to be graced by Sirindhorn considering their relationship when he was still around.)
I also check on Sirindhorn’s daily activities on her diary everyday and I find that the amount of work she does over the recent months have been consistent. She performs duties almost daily including weekends just as she has been doing for years. That is to say, it is not as if she has taken on more work that could have increased coverage on her activities.
However, while the volume of her work has not altered drastically these one or two weeks, the type of work she has performed in the past week and will be performing in the coming weeks may have made the difference in news coverage, i.e., they are and different and perhaps more ‘newsworthy’ as compared to her usual duties such as visiting different Chaipattana projects in various changwats, inaugurating various buildings and attending cremation ceremonies. The coverage on Sirindhorn you have pointed out are one-offs, i.e., not part of her routine work and could therefore be a reason for being singled out.
Thus, if there is any rat I smell here, it would be that of certain parties ‘arranging’ for the ‘newsworthy’ events to take place.
So let me get this straight. Your theory is that 11 years ago Thaksin and I pretended to have a major disagreement over Matichon newspaper saying I called him a clown, as a fiendish ploy to throw the world off the scent and disguise our true intentions, which were to somehow get hold of a huge cache of secret cables from the U.S. embassy in Bangkok a decade later and use them to bring Thailand to ruin and achieve global domination.
Dude – even for Thailand, that is quite some conspiracy theory. I like it!
I did read your “Thaksin and me” . . and I thought the story was ‘convenient’ and provoked my suspicions about your true pro-Thaksin slant in the first place (I am always suspicious of people who strongly declare their honesty before anything else).
But I will reserve judgment for now . . . and I will be delighted to let you know what I think of your Wikileaks reading when released.
I respect your hope and willingness to be optimistic but I think you will find that in regard to “S”, it’s all the product of a highly tuned marketing machine that’s spending millions busily generating a new illusion to replace the one that’s fading. For the sole purpose of maintaining the present Status Quo, not for actually moving Thailand “forward”.
This daily expansion of the Lese Majeste prosecution area into “body language”, “intonation”, “implied meaning”, use of “metaphors” is taking Thailand down into a dark little rathole of secret “Star Chamber” hearings, complete lack of legal transparency, jailing of political opponents, etc…….a rathole shared with countries like Zimbabwe, Iran, North Korea.
The present power group in Thailand needs to let go the reins and get out of the way so that the energetic, industrious and creative Thai people and their potentially rich and diverse country can successfully move into the 21st century.
Julian Assange is by no means the only person with the database of embassy cables now. Many others have it. I saw it for the first time in March, and the length of time I have taken on the story is due to the vast amount of Thai-related cables to read (3,800 from the U.S. embassy in Bangkok and several hundred from the U.S. consulate in Chiang Mai) as well as other research and fact checking. I believe it is my duty to report this story responsibly. I did not get access to the database through Julian Assange or WikiLeaks.
As for your banal caveat, I suggest you wait until my story is published and then I will be delighted to hear what you think of it.
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Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Andrew Marshall – 16
I hope everything will be online by the first half of May at the latest.
Andrew is that all the cables or just those you have used in your forthcoming article? It would be a shame if there was a suspicion of cherry-picking. Then again if you would like to immediately release everything you have access to rather than wait until after your scoop I’m sure we could find people to help you on New Mandala.
Has anybody else noticed…
There is no conspiracy, Sirindhorn is the most active royal bar none. The English language press does not report most of their every day activities, its just not that interesting.
You can get a better idea of what they are up to from the regular ‘royal’ segments on Thai language TV channels, which cover the myriad of openings, meetings, audiences and visitations in excruciating detail.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Vichai
You clearly haven’t read my Asian Correspondent blog very closely.
When you do, please email any comments you wish to make to the email address provided there and I would be happy to publish them in due course.
Has anybody else noticed…
“S” is the product of a well-honed marketing machine that is spending thousands of hours and millions of dollars in order to make her image into a successful “cult brand” that can then be put on t-shirts, cans of food, bars of candy, energy drinks, flags, photos, etc. in order to sell “reverence”, “loyalty”, “obedience”, “acceptance”, “passivity”, “surrender” and hang onto the 38 bullion USD.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
As part of my coverage, I will put the original cables in the public domain. Those who disagree with my interpretation will be able to view all the source material and draw their own conclusions. I hope everything will be online by the first half of May at the latest. I will post updates here.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Andrew Spooner why are your commentaries/articles at Asian Correspondent ‘closed off’ for comments?
If you did then you’ll be delighted to read about what I think about your enlightening dig at Thai politics.
All I said is I am suspicious of journalists/commentaries who preface with loud pronouncements about their honest-to-goodness anti-Thaksin credentials. They don’t have to. All that matters is that they write honestly without fanfare or embellishments.
Your criticisms for the most part about Thailand’s lese majeste laws as heavy-handed do not get any rebuttals from me. Nor your criticisms of wayward royals or the overly paranoid Privy President Prem. You can criticize the current Abhisit regime for its scandals, negligence or perceived dubious legitimacy to rule (very disputable contention to say the least), and for the most part I won’t care unless I spot lies, obfuscations and half-truths.
All my arguments at New Mandala revolved around the dangers of the divisive Thaksin, while he exists, and the violent terror-prone Red Shirts that get his legendary funding, and thus love and his minions of sycophantic party followers at the Peau Thai Party also enamored/addicted to his funding flows.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Andrew Marshall – 7
Hello Andrew, it’s good to hear that the Bangkok and Chiang Mai cables are not going to be lost to public scrutiny. I have been very sorry at the slow speed they have been released so far. I have to admit my biggest fear over recent years has been the return of Thaksin in charge of an authoritarian government. For me that is a bigger immediate danger than anything the palace, the army, the PAD or the Democrats can come up with.
I’m sure in these cables there will be plenty of embarrassment for all parties in Thailand’s recent troubles as well of course as the US government. (I have to add just here that so far Prem, Anand and co have come out of the so far released cables looking not too bad.)
As you know we have an election coming up and that is a worry when the cables aren’t available to the public and there has been a very limited amount of people seeing them. How do you handle this yourself in as far as giving a fair representation of what they contain? Do you have take a very neutral position? Do you think that public viewing of the cables will be achieved before the election?
Keeping up with the times
If people cannot even speak the truth without becoming liable criminally, how can that law be just?
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
I find it ridiculous that many Thais always accuse foreigners (or even Thai themselves) who speak against the Thai Government of the Monarchy that they receive money from Thaksin. They should thank level-headed people like Andrew Marshall who sees it as a pathetic joke which should not be taken seriously. Next time why don’t you enrol in LAWS101 to learn that one who alleges (in this case it was one who accuses others of receiving money) must have evidence to prove their allegation, otherwise they are subject to defamation action from the very person whom they accuse ๐
Have you looked at all reports from Wikileaks to see how many governments in the world have had their political secrets leaked out? Thailand has not been singled-out. I might believe that there may be Thaksin’s involvement if the reports contain no other cables of other countries but Thailand. But many governments around the world have had their secrets exposed by Wikileaks. Furthermore, Hillary Clinton herself has come out an said she would make sure ‘no USA cable would leak to the public ever again’…
…and if that is not enough to prove that they are real, I would like to say that I personally was not surprised about its many cables. The cable about the Queen’s complicity in the 2006 coup is a good example. I, as well as many Thais, knew that she certainly has a role from her infamous attendance to that PAD girl funeral on 13 October 2008. Thus I was not surprised in the slightest when Wikileaks revealed that she was behind it. Ask any Thai who is behind the PAD nowadays. Only the extremely stubborn and brainwashed will deny that the Thai Queen has not taken side!
If there is anything which surprised me, it was the fact that Wikileaks proved that even the application of lese majeste law is double standard in Thailand. Three elites have committed lese majeste, and they have never been charged (not that I want to them to be charged or anything. In my opinion this law should be abolished already). And this makes me start to consider Giles Ji Ungpakorn’s theory, that the army is the one who actually has the power, while the Monarchy is the willing ‘rubber stamp’ of the army.
Has anybody else noticed…
Princess Sirindhorn receives most respect and love from the Thais among the King’s four children. However, I do have doubts whether she is interested in changing Thailand into a proper Constitutional Monarchy country. Don’t forget that after the brutal massacre event of 6 October 1976, it was her (and her sister Chulabhorn) who paid a visit to the hospital to give flowers to the soldiers who were part of the student massacre in Thammasat University.
Furthermore, on 20 Oct 1976, she attended the funeral of the village scout who went into Thammasat University and got killed on the day of the massacre. She also made a speech that what that village scout did show his utmost loyalty to the Monarchy, and it is an exemplary act which Thai people should follow…
Unfortunately, not many younger Thais know about this, as this is not taught in history class. Instead, the elites in Thailand prefer to stuff innocent students’ heads with heroic tales of Kings from ancient era, as those stories are more effective propaganda than the truth on 6 October 1976 or the truth behind King Ananda’s death…
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Have to say that Vichai’s attempts to diminish Andrew Marshall’s contribution by smearing him as pro-Thaksin once again reveal Vichai as an absurdly paranoid fantasist.
Why is it that the pro-Thai regime, anti-Red lobby always, always revert to smears, bizarre conspiracy theories, dubious “facts” and irrational argument?
For certain this lobby will always find a readymade audience amongst disaffected barstool expats or the extremists in the PAD. But that’s it. International sentiment is going against them and so they revert to the wilder, the weirder and the nastier.
Decision looms for controversial Xayaburi dam on lower Mekong
John,
I do share your concern for the well being of the Mekong River and how important is has been for million depended population. I grew up in the Mekong delta myself. As one of the downstream riparian countries Vietnam’s Mekong Delta is no doubt will be the most affected. The dam will alter the natural river flow patterns in the delta and upset the balance of the ecosystem. Reduction of flow would create problems of salinity intrusion in the lower delta areas. The dam will act as a fish migration barrier, trapping the mountain sediment flow that has been the neutralising sources for the acid sulfate soils problem in the delta for thousand of years. The downstream people have to live with the risk of dam break that would generate such a destructive tsumani wave, destroying everything in it path.
Understanding all that risks and we try our best as the main opposing voices at this stage, raising our concerns with the Mekong River Commission (MRC). Unfortunately the MRC is not a regulatory body and does not have a regulatory power to stop this dam. Without a strong support from the international environmental protection communities, the best Vietnam can do at this stage is delaying the project, giving it time for a proper environmental assessment be carried out, investigating the full impacts with acceptable mitigation strategies for agreement by all stakeholders.
Your suggestion about the most effective protesting mean would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Ken
Has anybody else noticed…
I have been closely watching and analysing khao nai phra ratchasamnak on Thai news everyday for the past several years especially for news on Princess Sirindhorn. She has been the most active member the royal family for a very long time, as you would have known. However, I’ve noticed for years that she gets much more TV coverage when she visits China. Her annual official China visits are always relatively lengthy and are given much comprehensive coverage on the news. This year’s visit to China was from 4 – 12 April, which might explain the influx in TV coverage.
As for print media coverage, which is at the centre of your discussion here, I’ve subscribed to google news alerts on the keywords ‘sirindhorn’, ‘ัโะบัโะฑัโฃะัโะคัโฃะัโะัโะฎัโะณัโโัโฃะัโะงัโะฎ’, ‘ัะฟะงัะ โัะะชโ etc for years. I have noticed that she’s getting quite a few mentions in the Bangkok Post the past week or two. But this has happened before in the past, especially in the weeks before and after her birthday (2 April) when all and sundry would clamour to organise events to commemorate her birthday. These events are usually not ones to celebrate her birthday per se, but incorporates the celebration into the main event, which are likely to be related to heritage conservation since Sirindhorn’s birthday is also the National Heritage Conservation Day for Thailand. The khon mask dance would be one such event. (Moreover, it would be likely for an event centred on MR Kukrit to be graced by Sirindhorn considering their relationship when he was still around.)
I also check on Sirindhorn’s daily activities on her diary everyday and I find that the amount of work she does over the recent months have been consistent. She performs duties almost daily including weekends just as she has been doing for years. That is to say, it is not as if she has taken on more work that could have increased coverage on her activities.
However, while the volume of her work has not altered drastically these one or two weeks, the type of work she has performed in the past week and will be performing in the coming weeks may have made the difference in news coverage, i.e., they are and different and perhaps more ‘newsworthy’ as compared to her usual duties such as visiting different Chaipattana projects in various changwats, inaugurating various buildings and attending cremation ceremonies. The coverage on Sirindhorn you have pointed out are one-offs, i.e., not part of her routine work and could therefore be a reason for being singled out.
Thus, if there is any rat I smell here, it would be that of certain parties ‘arranging’ for the ‘newsworthy’ events to take place.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
So let me get this straight. Your theory is that 11 years ago Thaksin and I pretended to have a major disagreement over Matichon newspaper saying I called him a clown, as a fiendish ploy to throw the world off the scent and disguise our true intentions, which were to somehow get hold of a huge cache of secret cables from the U.S. embassy in Bangkok a decade later and use them to bring Thailand to ruin and achieve global domination.
Dude – even for Thailand, that is quite some conspiracy theory. I like it!
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
I did read your “Thaksin and me” . . and I thought the story was ‘convenient’ and provoked my suspicions about your true pro-Thaksin slant in the first place (I am always suspicious of people who strongly declare their honesty before anything else).
But I will reserve judgment for now . . . and I will be delighted to let you know what I think of your Wikileaks reading when released.
Has anybody else noticed…
It’s either Sirindhorn or it’s no one.
Has anybody else noticed…
I recalled her drawing a picture of a red buffalo at an event for no reason. It was last year or so. That might be her political view on the reds.
Has anybody else noticed…
R.N. England:
I respect your hope and willingness to be optimistic but I think you will find that in regard to “S”, it’s all the product of a highly tuned marketing machine that’s spending millions busily generating a new illusion to replace the one that’s fading. For the sole purpose of maintaining the present Status Quo, not for actually moving Thailand “forward”.
Keeping up with the times
This daily expansion of the Lese Majeste prosecution area into “body language”, “intonation”, “implied meaning”, use of “metaphors” is taking Thailand down into a dark little rathole of secret “Star Chamber” hearings, complete lack of legal transparency, jailing of political opponents, etc…….a rathole shared with countries like Zimbabwe, Iran, North Korea.
The present power group in Thailand needs to let go the reins and get out of the way so that the energetic, industrious and creative Thai people and their potentially rich and diverse country can successfully move into the 21st century.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Dear Vichai
Surprised you think I am pro-Thaksin. For what it is worth, my views are here: http://blogs.reuters.com/andrew-marshall/2010/06/12/thaksin_and_me/
Julian Assange is by no means the only person with the database of embassy cables now. Many others have it. I saw it for the first time in March, and the length of time I have taken on the story is due to the vast amount of Thai-related cables to read (3,800 from the U.S. embassy in Bangkok and several hundred from the U.S. consulate in Chiang Mai) as well as other research and fact checking. I believe it is my duty to report this story responsibly. I did not get access to the database through Julian Assange or WikiLeaks.
As for your banal caveat, I suggest you wait until my story is published and then I will be delighted to hear what you think of it.