As long as the Democrats are unwilling or unable to face him at an election, they will have to live with the charge of electoral unfairness.
Sorry Andrew, it is the other other way round. It is Mr T. who lacks the courage to return to Thailand and lead Peua Thai in an election campaign. And why should he, unless he is guaranteed bail pending appeal and a certainty of a royal pardon, something that will never happen in current circumstances, dot dot dot
Tthe next election will be determined by what the godfathers aka minority parties, and others do. That means Newin, Sanoh, Chavalit, and add into that Purachai. What is the price of their support for the Democrats or Peua Thai? You know the name, look up the number….
You gentiles all have lovely handbags. I believe an appropriate awkward silence is in order to take the sting out of both sides’ vindictive temerity. If this were in a tea shop, I am sure Dr Zarni wouldn’t want to submit to these random and anonymous doubters by giving away so much of himself. He would probably end up throwing piping hot tea all over them. And I am sure the doubters would not want to bring Dr Zarni to such an extreme. The point is none of us are at that tea spot because of, among other reasons, Burma’s governance issues. How one argues for change in Burma should not deviate from the fact that we’re all on the same page of wanting political change in Burma. Let’s not forget that. I hope this is not taken as a whitewash of the issues, but more a pause for steam release.
I hope that general consciousness of the ridiculous behaviour of the few Thais that conjured this issue at Preah Vihear is not diluted by the relative minutiae of what munitions were used, but rather, that this ridiculousness is emphasised by such minutiae. I can only imagine the ring leaders of this are sitting in luxury cackling over the mess they’ve made. Utterly vexatious. Incorrigible. And they deserve the verboseness because I doubt anyone will be given opportunity to bludgeon them with either bluntness or a blunt object. For shame.
The main weapon for Thailand is the 155-mm Caesar self-propelled howitzer artillery, with a shooting range of 40km. The howitzer, made by Giat of France and used by the army since 2006, is the main weapon to counter Cambodia, in addition to the 105mm artillery. There is a joke among Thai soldiers that Cambodian troops hate “Caesar salad”.
The howitzer was the main target of attacks in the field and in the diplomatic move by Cambodia. Phnom Penh has protested at the United Nations Security Council by alleging that the Thai army had used banned cluster bombs fired by the howitzer upon its soldiers. Thailand denied the allegation and in order to silence this claim for good, army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha has ordered all howitzer artillery to be returned to the depots.
Less Abbey #30 :
In some ways, I wish my comments were “a late April Fool’s joke”
– but with so many coup rumours now swirling, and being taken very seriously indeed by Thailand’s top brass, it is obvious that the prospect of Snoh as PM of an essentially pro-Thaksin Peua Thai government, is sending very cold shivers down some very senior spines. Eg : http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/230542/military-leaders-unified-against-a-coup
Does n’t this expulsion make Burma / Myanmar’s image shine – in comparison to Thailand ?
After all, if the Sydney Morning Herald’s Richard Hartcher, or Australian ABC correspondent Eric Campbell were found in Thailand, even on a tourist visa – to say nothing of Paul Handley – it is doubtful they would simply be expelled, so graciously as Myanmar has done.
You actually make a very good point, but it is actually covered.
The analogy I like to use is that society is a bit like a 3 legged table.
If all 3 legs are doing their job the table is strong and level.
If one fails then the other two have to do something to keep the balance.
Here we have as the three legs, the Politicians, the Military and the Monarchy
If the Political side is honest and competent, then there is no need for intervention from the Military. If the Military leaders do not show due respect for the Monarchy, they loose the ability to lead the forces. If the Monarchy looses the respect of the people then it will be sanctioned or replaced by the other two.
What we don’t have here, except for a few isolated individuals, is honest politicians.
So, it is the duty of the military to intervene.
Democracy does not work in any large group.
You cannot call what is in place in the west Democracy.
It is a government by minority groups and vested interests.
And in some cases corporations (BP and Halliburton anyone?)
You are right though, that in the case of Thailand it is not because the Thais are stupid or corrupted, they are not. It is simply that like anywhere, one man one vote does not work.
Experiments elsewhere with various brands of Communism and Socialism have shown that in every case, an elite arises where it is not supposed to. In China for example, they replaced their warlords with commissars, in some cases the very same people. Nothing really changed.
And what makes you think all votes or voters are of equal value?
Is the vote of an AIDS riddled, drug addicted, thieving Katoey in Pattaya worth the same as that of a responsible engineer or surgeon in Chiang Mai? You might well think so, but I don’t.
The simple fact is that rule by an elite or ruling class is the natural order of things and has served humanity for thousands of years.
It cannot be torn down overnight and if it were, chaos would result.
“A strong military with a strong leadership does indeed provide the balance required when politicians cannot be trusted.”
Soonuk Dum, you make a lot of claims in just this one sentence. Would you please care to define what you mean by “strong” and “leadership” as related to the Thai military, the “balance” required between Thai politicians and the Thai military, and the “trust” that is implied?
It’s really going to be tough to beat Bushs’ performance during his election victory over Gore, with his brother as Florida governor. That is what I call dirty. And look what happened! 9/11 and the Iraq war.
Accused is used in this one, and others. The latest article is admission. I also believe that perhaps accused is fine for purposes of Thailand now being accused during and after its admission.
And, Korat police still have not bothered to touch base with us and let us know what they think of the live M79 weapon we found outside our home fence. It was the day after I got a call from Bangkok police telling me that my criminal defamation case sponsored by a certain colonel friend of a UK national required my presence to carry the file to the prosecutor.
Of course I am not saying there was any connection…
Evidence and admission!
Are things falling apart or what?
I see Wiki has already entered the info on Thailand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_bomb#Countries_that_have_stocks_of_cluster_munitions
The Thai Ambassador to the UN should be explaining the UN position to the Thai military and not the other way around. So we have a Thai UN human rights head from a country with increasingly dismal performance on that end, and a Thai UN rep who somehow feels that an explanation is all that is needed. It sort of causes me to wonder about Agent Orange here in Thailand. Some time I was asked to inquire with local military authorities about presence of Agent Orange in the region, and was, of course, told “None of that here!” I understand Hua Hin and other areas, however, have large traces of the defoliant.
Dr Zarni,
You have the knee jerk mentality of a fighter (Boxer) that challenges the audience. There is no need to personally challenge the public as I’m part of the public or the people and I have free right to criticize you or any body claiming to be fighting for the liberation of Burma or for democracy in Burma!
What happen to your Free Burma Coalition?
What is the result of your association with the KNU/Bo Mya ?
What is the result of your tete a tete with the erstwhile Prime minister MI General Khin Nyunt?
And you lectured the people’s leader Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and NLD on sanctions!
You have Napoleonic mentality in you to be a hero, but it’s bad that your abilities do not match his!
Please be a true son of the country, Burma, a hero for the good cause, but not for yourself! Discard the Mike Tyson’s mentality!
Politicians, as representatives of the electorate, should have the power to remove the corrupt monarchy, not the other way around.
Interesting – certainly happened in Britain with Edward VIII, (he abdicated of course, but only because the politicians wouldn’t accept his intended marriage).
Britain had earlier changes in monarchs and dynasties bought about the then political ruling class. For a period they had no monarch at all under the Commonwealth, (what a lovely word?)
Worth remembering that Thailand in living memory carried on with no monarch or at least a monarch in exile for quite long periods
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Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
So, who’s the bad guy?
Benedict Rogers deported from Burma
Perhaps fixation on Than Shwe is wrong because he has nothing to do with the plight of the 50 million citizenry?
Will Thailand’s elections be fair?
As long as the Democrats are unwilling or unable to face him at an election, they will have to live with the charge of electoral unfairness.
Sorry Andrew, it is the other other way round. It is Mr T. who lacks the courage to return to Thailand and lead Peua Thai in an election campaign. And why should he, unless he is guaranteed bail pending appeal and a certainty of a royal pardon, something that will never happen in current circumstances, dot dot dot
Tthe next election will be determined by what the godfathers aka minority parties, and others do. That means Newin, Sanoh, Chavalit, and add into that Purachai. What is the price of their support for the Democrats or Peua Thai? You know the name, look up the number….
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
You gentiles all have lovely handbags. I believe an appropriate awkward silence is in order to take the sting out of both sides’ vindictive temerity. If this were in a tea shop, I am sure Dr Zarni wouldn’t want to submit to these random and anonymous doubters by giving away so much of himself. He would probably end up throwing piping hot tea all over them. And I am sure the doubters would not want to bring Dr Zarni to such an extreme. The point is none of us are at that tea spot because of, among other reasons, Burma’s governance issues. How one argues for change in Burma should not deviate from the fact that we’re all on the same page of wanting political change in Burma. Let’s not forget that. I hope this is not taken as a whitewash of the issues, but more a pause for steam release.
Thailand accused of using cluster bombs against Cambodia
I hope that general consciousness of the ridiculous behaviour of the few Thais that conjured this issue at Preah Vihear is not diluted by the relative minutiae of what munitions were used, but rather, that this ridiculousness is emphasised by such minutiae. I can only imagine the ring leaders of this are sitting in luxury cackling over the mess they’ve made. Utterly vexatious. Incorrigible. And they deserve the verboseness because I doubt anyone will be given opportunity to bludgeon them with either bluntness or a blunt object. For shame.
Thailand accused of using cluster bombs against Cambodia
Both sides not firing, just reinforcing
How can you tell if the Thai Regime is lying?
Are their lips moving?
Will Thailand’s elections be fair?
Less Abbey #30 :
In some ways, I wish my comments were “a late April Fool’s joke”
– but with so many coup rumours now swirling, and being taken very seriously indeed by Thailand’s top brass, it is obvious that the prospect of Snoh as PM of an essentially pro-Thaksin Peua Thai government, is sending very cold shivers down some very senior spines. Eg : http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/230542/military-leaders-unified-against-a-coup
Thailand accused of using cluster bombs against Cambodia
Please credit my picture, as explained in the press release. [Done. AW]
Benedict Rogers deported from Burma
Does n’t this expulsion make Burma / Myanmar’s image shine – in comparison to Thailand ?
After all, if the Sydney Morning Herald’s Richard Hartcher, or Australian ABC correspondent Eric Campbell were found in Thailand, even on a tourist visa – to say nothing of Paul Handley – it is doubtful they would simply be expelled, so graciously as Myanmar has done.
Is an election the answer for Thailand?
Paul – 22
You actually make a very good point, but it is actually covered.
The analogy I like to use is that society is a bit like a 3 legged table.
If all 3 legs are doing their job the table is strong and level.
If one fails then the other two have to do something to keep the balance.
Here we have as the three legs, the Politicians, the Military and the Monarchy
If the Political side is honest and competent, then there is no need for intervention from the Military. If the Military leaders do not show due respect for the Monarchy, they loose the ability to lead the forces. If the Monarchy looses the respect of the people then it will be sanctioned or replaced by the other two.
What we don’t have here, except for a few isolated individuals, is honest politicians.
So, it is the duty of the military to intervene.
Is an election the answer for Thailand?
Tarrin – 20
Democracy does not work in any large group.
You cannot call what is in place in the west Democracy.
It is a government by minority groups and vested interests.
And in some cases corporations (BP and Halliburton anyone?)
You are right though, that in the case of Thailand it is not because the Thais are stupid or corrupted, they are not. It is simply that like anywhere, one man one vote does not work.
Experiments elsewhere with various brands of Communism and Socialism have shown that in every case, an elite arises where it is not supposed to. In China for example, they replaced their warlords with commissars, in some cases the very same people. Nothing really changed.
And what makes you think all votes or voters are of equal value?
Is the vote of an AIDS riddled, drug addicted, thieving Katoey in Pattaya worth the same as that of a responsible engineer or surgeon in Chiang Mai? You might well think so, but I don’t.
The simple fact is that rule by an elite or ruling class is the natural order of things and has served humanity for thousands of years.
It cannot be torn down overnight and if it were, chaos would result.
Is an election the answer for Thailand?
“A strong military with a strong leadership does indeed provide the balance required when politicians cannot be trusted.”
Soonuk Dum, you make a lot of claims in just this one sentence. Would you please care to define what you mean by “strong” and “leadership” as related to the Thai military, the “balance” required between Thai politicians and the Thai military, and the “trust” that is implied?
Monitoring the dirtiest elections ever
It’s really going to be tough to beat Bushs’ performance during his election victory over Gore, with his brother as Florida governor. That is what I call dirty. And look what happened! 9/11 and the Iraq war.
Thailand accused of using cluster bombs against Cambodia
There are many reports on this. The one referenced, of course, and others.
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1631055.php/Activist-group-says-Thailand-used-cluster-munitions-in-border-clash
Accused is used in this one, and others. The latest article is admission. I also believe that perhaps accused is fine for purposes of Thailand now being accused during and after its admission.
Thailand accused of using cluster bombs against Cambodia
And, Korat police still have not bothered to touch base with us and let us know what they think of the live M79 weapon we found outside our home fence. It was the day after I got a call from Bangkok police telling me that my criminal defamation case sponsored by a certain colonel friend of a UK national required my presence to carry the file to the prosecutor.
Of course I am not saying there was any connection…
Thailand accused of using cluster bombs against Cambodia
Evidence and admission!
Are things falling apart or what?
I see Wiki has already entered the info on Thailand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_bomb#Countries_that_have_stocks_of_cluster_munitions
The Thai Ambassador to the UN should be explaining the UN position to the Thai military and not the other way around. So we have a Thai UN human rights head from a country with increasingly dismal performance on that end, and a Thai UN rep who somehow feels that an explanation is all that is needed. It sort of causes me to wonder about Agent Orange here in Thailand. Some time I was asked to inquire with local military authorities about presence of Agent Orange in the region, and was, of course, told “None of that here!” I understand Hua Hin and other areas, however, have large traces of the defoliant.
Thailand accused of using cluster bombs against Cambodia
Thailand isn’t accused, it has admitted. See the report.
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
Dr Zarni,
You have the knee jerk mentality of a fighter (Boxer) that challenges the audience. There is no need to personally challenge the public as I’m part of the public or the people and I have free right to criticize you or any body claiming to be fighting for the liberation of Burma or for democracy in Burma!
What happen to your Free Burma Coalition?
What is the result of your association with the KNU/Bo Mya ?
What is the result of your tete a tete with the erstwhile Prime minister MI General Khin Nyunt?
And you lectured the people’s leader Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and NLD on sanctions!
You have Napoleonic mentality in you to be a hero, but it’s bad that your abilities do not match his!
Please be a true son of the country, Burma, a hero for the good cause, but not for yourself! Discard the Mike Tyson’s mentality!
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
I don’t really agree with much of what Zarni has written of late but I’m not sure how personal attacks on him are constructive to the debate either.
Although, at the same time, there may be an element of ‘fight fire with fire’ going on here…
Is an election the answer for Thailand?
Paul – 22
Politicians, as representatives of the electorate, should have the power to remove the corrupt monarchy, not the other way around.
Interesting – certainly happened in Britain with Edward VIII, (he abdicated of course, but only because the politicians wouldn’t accept his intended marriage).
Britain had earlier changes in monarchs and dynasties bought about the then political ruling class. For a period they had no monarch at all under the Commonwealth, (what a lovely word?)
Worth remembering that Thailand in living memory carried on with no monarch or at least a monarch in exile for quite long periods