Hla Oo,
Now I show you the evidence that gen Aung San and Thakin Mya never asked someone to kill Galon Saw.
You can see he dared to meet Slim without fearing his life.
Why should he fear Glaon Saw and tried to kill cowardly.
You are terribly wrong. You definitely have hidden agenda. The most probably you are the puppet of someone in power.
To Hla oo,
All your interpretation are wrong.
When Gen Aung San was replying to Slim. As the following was extract of your essay.
“You have nothing in writing, only a verbal promise at second-hand, that I would return you to your friends. Don’t you think you are taking considerable risks in coming here and taking this attitude?’
‘No’, he replied, shortly.
‘Why not?’
‘Because you are a British officer’, he answered.
I had to confess that he scored heavily – and what was more I believe he meant it.
It does not mean Gen Aung San admire British. He knew that British would not do any thing without evidence. It is democratic system. I think Gen Aung San did not hate British but their policy, their invasion and occupation of Burma.
Thanks John Lilburne for the reference. I note it is to “pre-modern” England. That in itself is a commentary on Thailand’s current use of this draconian law.
Why would anyone find common cause with the Red shirts when it is just red shirts getting locked up? “Countless Thais,” no, you can count them, 30,000 to 60,000 – in a city of 12 million show up for these Thaksin rallies – which isn’t even 1% of Bangkok’s population, not to mention how much smaller this percentage is compared to Thailand’s 65 + million population. This is ochlocracy, not a people’s movement.
– it is overtly subversive and treasonous and when you consider they are quite openly led by Thaksin Shinwatra who is has been supported by foreign interests ranging from Kenneth Adelman of Edelman PR, Robert Blackwill of BGR, James Baker’s PR firm, and now Robert Amsterdam, all who are tied to Western political and corporate interests, it most certainly does amount to treason punishable by at least imprisonment.
Thais and foreigners are figuring this out, which, in combination with the grotesque and continuous displays of violence, have wrung out the last drops of legitimacy the “red shirts” might cling to.
Academia’s job here at New Mandala seems to be to lend legitimacy to what is otherwise a paid lobbying effort with a street-presence.
P.S. purposefully driving a car at someone is considered, worldwide, attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon, police, in any country on the face of the earth would have shot the driver deader than a hammer – and would have been quite justified in doing so.
You people peddle lies that defy even commonsense, and that’s why no one is listening to you anymore. This is also why the alternative media is taking over – quite soundly. Did any of you look into the evidence behind 9/11 or do you just dismiss out of hand skepticism over 3 steel structure buildings collapsing into their own footprints?
Chris. You clearly never listened to the King’s speech. You probably never heard of sufficiency economy as well. Your comparison is just way off.
Whether they can or cannot identify me is not really a factor. The real point is that since it is illegal, finding example of defamation alone is hard enough already, let alone one that the King personally reply to. It just won’t be circulated around. Hence your challenge is unfair, and does not prove or disprove anything.
Anyway, I believe my last reply already covered everything mentioned so far.
LM is a relic of absolutism. In a democracy you don’t get punished for criticising the leader. In Acton’s words: “All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Almost all great men are bad men.” Telling the truth about leaders, even the best ones, almost always involves criticism. LM means the truth gets punished, and stupid, grovelling ignorance prevails.
What I don’t understand is how Zarni can say what he says and then have his Burmese passport reissued (just a few months ago) by the embassy in London. Something fishy is going on……
Some of the thread followers may be interested in a new book:
Dangerous Talk: Scandalous, Seditious, and Treasonable Speech in Pre-Modern England by David Cressy. I quote from Amazon:
“Royal regimes from the house of Plantagenet to the house of Hanover coped variously with “crimes of the tongue” and found ways to monitor talk they deemed dangerous. Their response involved policing and surveillance, judicial intervention, political propaganda, and the crafting of new law. In early Tudor times to speak ill of the monarch could risk execution. By the end of the Stuart era similar words could be dismissed with a shrug. This book traces the development of free speech across five centuries of popular political culture, and shows how scandalous, seditious and treasonable talk finally gained protection as “the birthright of an Englishman.” The lively and accessible work of a prize-winning social historian, it offers fresh insight into pre-modern society, the politics of language, and the social impact of the law.”
1) Paul – they would have to identify you. I wish them luck, searching through all the “Pauls”. Start with McCartney.
then go onto St. Paul, etc.
The prosecutor fail to even prove that Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul is in fact the webmaster of NorPorChorUSA, and still he was found guilty. You seems to forget that the article 112 is so broad that actually they can found you guilty simply my skimming trough your face.
But what can replace it ?
First, do we even need to replace it? Second, can’t we replace it with something milder like 1-3 months jail term and not 3-10 years and more definite meaning of “defaming”?
I think majority of Thai public is impartial (meaning they are neither conservative or liberal) as long as you get to governing power you can pretty much do anything (look at the palm oil scandal)
‘There is rumour that it was Ne Win who created the friction
between Galon Saw and Gen Aung San. ‘
That remark shows the intelligence of of the commenter as
Col. Ne Win was Maj. Gen. Aung San’s third in command as
2IC was Bo Let Ya. And there were Saw Kya Doe, Saw Yee
Shoe high level Karen officers and also other Anglo-Burman
officers in post WWII Burmese army. So how can he issue
200 automatic guns (that can arm more than fire power of
a 500 men battalion with rifles). The guns were issued from
British guard and Col. Ne Win was not known to be a British
favorite.
So your rumour is a rumor either generated by Communists
or Karens who betrayed us who sucked their British masters.
I don’t think that the succession issue is overplayed. I think it IS as important as it is considered to be. Most Thai’s who are alive now have known no other leader. He is the focal point for the whole culture. He has provided an “identity” for the culture and acts as THE common factor that the whole of the people can agree on. There is definitely a big sense of dread about this issue. Not just because of who may be waiting in the wings, but just the fact that a big change is coming. There is a huge historical significance to the current Rama. There is a very old Thai belief that the House will reign for 9 generations, and then the country will fall into disarray. The current King is this 9th generation. Do not underestimate the significance that is placed on this. Many people believe that the current upheaval will occur precisely because it is this particular King.
I had read alternative story that tell ‘Someone was arranging an attempt on Galon Saw’s life by using “PVO” uniforms. There is rumour that it was Ne Win who created the friction between Galon Saw and Gen Aung San. We was cunning to attacked two of his (Ne Win’s) possible rivals at the same time.
Hla Oo think that he was too smart to write this defamatory note to the General at the smae time insulting Burmese. But he is rather stupid. I would ask Hla Oo to come out of from where he is hiding in “hta-mee=lady’s longyi”. So that we all can see clearly if he is a monkey who dance at the colonialist/imperialist musics.
It is very interesting that Hla Ooo does not identify himself clearly.
Was Htun Hla his father? Who was Htun Hla.
Hla Oo was mentioning that he was studying at RIT in the 1970’s.
Is he trying to make the readers confused as if he was the son of Capt Hutn Hla the PA of Gen Aung San. Need more time to analyze.
Plainly no more than a sidebar to the matter of LM in Thailand, but it does look as if LM in Europe is well on the way to being officially a thing of the past:
I cannot provide any example of defamation because doing so, I would violate the lese majeste myself, and I’m not prepared to do that.
You cannot deny the fact that the Thai King makes autonomous, uncensored speeches without the government(s)’ approval, which sometimes (and to some, always), have influences in politics.”
1) Paul – they would have to identify you. I wish them luck, searching through all the “Pauls”. Start with McCartney.
then go onto St. Paul, etc.
2) I can not deny that Britain’s Prince Charles makes autonomous, uncensored speeches about talking to plants, about
London’s architectural “carbuncles”, about the Dalai Lama, about all sorts of things “without the government’s approval”, which may or may not have an influence on politics.
I can not deny that Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth instead seems more interested in corgies and horse-races. So what ?
Tarrin #25 – yes : I agree – article 112 is a very unjust law, which should be revoked.
It is also a very stupid law – not least in that it is wide open to cyber-attack, via a bot-net massive overload of the Thai LM system.
But what can replace it ?
It is highly unlikely Thai conservatives – who may well be the majority of the population – will agree to reform, unless there are strong safeguards protecting the Head of State.
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Thai Institutions: Judiciary
Too many things disappear in Thailand’s judicial system. Whatever happened to Rakesh Saxena?
Burma in Limbo, part 4
Hla Oo,
Now I show you the evidence that gen Aung San and Thakin Mya never asked someone to kill Galon Saw.
You can see he dared to meet Slim without fearing his life.
Why should he fear Glaon Saw and tried to kill cowardly.
You are terribly wrong. You definitely have hidden agenda. The most probably you are the puppet of someone in power.
Burma in Limbo, part 4
To Hla oo,
All your interpretation are wrong.
When Gen Aung San was replying to Slim. As the following was extract of your essay.
“You have nothing in writing, only a verbal promise at second-hand, that I would return you to your friends. Don’t you think you are taking considerable risks in coming here and taking this attitude?’
‘No’, he replied, shortly.
‘Why not?’
‘Because you are a British officer’, he answered.
I had to confess that he scored heavily – and what was more I believe he meant it.
It does not mean Gen Aung San admire British. He knew that British would not do any thing without evidence. It is democratic system. I think Gen Aung San did not hate British but their policy, their invasion and occupation of Burma.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
By the way, Political Prisoners in Thailand reports another case of lese majeste: http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/yet-another-lese-majeste-arrest/
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Thanks John Lilburne for the reference. I note it is to “pre-modern” England. That in itself is a commentary on Thailand’s current use of this draconian law.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Why would anyone find common cause with the Red shirts when it is just red shirts getting locked up? “Countless Thais,” no, you can count them, 30,000 to 60,000 – in a city of 12 million show up for these Thaksin rallies – which isn’t even 1% of Bangkok’s population, not to mention how much smaller this percentage is compared to Thailand’s 65 + million population. This is ochlocracy, not a people’s movement.
Just read the UDD’s propaganda –
http://2bangkok.com/09/RedPublications.shtml
– it is overtly subversive and treasonous and when you consider they are quite openly led by Thaksin Shinwatra who is has been supported by foreign interests ranging from Kenneth Adelman of Edelman PR, Robert Blackwill of BGR, James Baker’s PR firm, and now Robert Amsterdam, all who are tied to Western political and corporate interests, it most certainly does amount to treason punishable by at least imprisonment.
Thais and foreigners are figuring this out, which, in combination with the grotesque and continuous displays of violence, have wrung out the last drops of legitimacy the “red shirts” might cling to.
Academia’s job here at New Mandala seems to be to lend legitimacy to what is otherwise a paid lobbying effort with a street-presence.
Nick Nostitz on Thailand’s political awakening
US National Endowment for Democracy funding Prachatai 1.5 million Thai Baht.
http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/asia/thailand
Two dead UDD protesters in a river with no evidence as to who put them there is evidence of what?
http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255204160028
P.S. purposefully driving a car at someone is considered, worldwide, attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon, police, in any country on the face of the earth would have shot the driver deader than a hammer – and would have been quite justified in doing so.
You people peddle lies that defy even commonsense, and that’s why no one is listening to you anymore. This is also why the alternative media is taking over – quite soundly. Did any of you look into the evidence behind 9/11 or do you just dismiss out of hand skepticism over 3 steel structure buildings collapsing into their own footprints?
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Chris. You clearly never listened to the King’s speech. You probably never heard of sufficiency economy as well. Your comparison is just way off.
Whether they can or cannot identify me is not really a factor. The real point is that since it is illegal, finding example of defamation alone is hard enough already, let alone one that the King personally reply to. It just won’t be circulated around. Hence your challenge is unfair, and does not prove or disprove anything.
Anyway, I believe my last reply already covered everything mentioned so far.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
LM is a relic of absolutism. In a democracy you don’t get punished for criticising the leader. In Acton’s words: “All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Almost all great men are bad men.” Telling the truth about leaders, even the best ones, almost always involves criticism. LM means the truth gets punished, and stupid, grovelling ignorance prevails.
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
What I don’t understand is how Zarni can say what he says and then have his Burmese passport reissued (just a few months ago) by the embassy in London. Something fishy is going on……
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Some of the thread followers may be interested in a new book:
Dangerous Talk: Scandalous, Seditious, and Treasonable Speech in Pre-Modern England by David Cressy. I quote from Amazon:
“Royal regimes from the house of Plantagenet to the house of Hanover coped variously with “crimes of the tongue” and found ways to monitor talk they deemed dangerous. Their response involved policing and surveillance, judicial intervention, political propaganda, and the crafting of new law. In early Tudor times to speak ill of the monarch could risk execution. By the end of the Stuart era similar words could be dismissed with a shrug. This book traces the development of free speech across five centuries of popular political culture, and shows how scandalous, seditious and treasonable talk finally gained protection as “the birthright of an Englishman.” The lively and accessible work of a prize-winning social historian, it offers fresh insight into pre-modern society, the politics of language, and the social impact of the law.”
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
chris beale – 28
1) Paul – they would have to identify you. I wish them luck, searching through all the “Pauls”. Start with McCartney.
then go onto St. Paul, etc.
The prosecutor fail to even prove that Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul is in fact the webmaster of NorPorChorUSA, and still he was found guilty. You seems to forget that the article 112 is so broad that actually they can found you guilty simply my skimming trough your face.
But what can replace it ?
First, do we even need to replace it? Second, can’t we replace it with something milder like 1-3 months jail term and not 3-10 years and more definite meaning of “defaming”?
I think majority of Thai public is impartial (meaning they are neither conservative or liberal) as long as you get to governing power you can pretty much do anything (look at the palm oil scandal)
Burma in Limbo, Part 2
‘There is rumour that it was Ne Win who created the friction
between Galon Saw and Gen Aung San. ‘
That remark shows the intelligence of of the commenter as
Col. Ne Win was Maj. Gen. Aung San’s third in command as
2IC was Bo Let Ya. And there were Saw Kya Doe, Saw Yee
Shoe high level Karen officers and also other Anglo-Burman
officers in post WWII Burmese army. So how can he issue
200 automatic guns (that can arm more than fire power of
a 500 men battalion with rifles). The guns were issued from
British guard and Col. Ne Win was not known to be a British
favorite.
So your rumour is a rumor either generated by Communists
or Karens who betrayed us who sucked their British masters.
Thai political strife…in 53 words or less
I don’t think that the succession issue is overplayed. I think it IS as important as it is considered to be. Most Thai’s who are alive now have known no other leader. He is the focal point for the whole culture. He has provided an “identity” for the culture and acts as THE common factor that the whole of the people can agree on. There is definitely a big sense of dread about this issue. Not just because of who may be waiting in the wings, but just the fact that a big change is coming. There is a huge historical significance to the current Rama. There is a very old Thai belief that the House will reign for 9 generations, and then the country will fall into disarray. The current King is this 9th generation. Do not underestimate the significance that is placed on this. Many people believe that the current upheaval will occur precisely because it is this particular King.
Burma in Limbo, Part 2
I had read alternative story that tell ‘Someone was arranging an attempt on Galon Saw’s life by using “PVO” uniforms. There is rumour that it was Ne Win who created the friction between Galon Saw and Gen Aung San. We was cunning to attacked two of his (Ne Win’s) possible rivals at the same time.
Burma in Limbo, Part 1
Hla Oo think that he was too smart to write this defamatory note to the General at the smae time insulting Burmese. But he is rather stupid. I would ask Hla Oo to come out of from where he is hiding in “hta-mee=lady’s longyi”. So that we all can see clearly if he is a monkey who dance at the colonialist/imperialist musics.
Burma in Limbo, Part 1
It is very interesting that Hla Ooo does not identify himself clearly.
Was Htun Hla his father? Who was Htun Hla.
Hla Oo was mentioning that he was studying at RIT in the 1970’s.
Is he trying to make the readers confused as if he was the son of Capt Hutn Hla the PA of Gen Aung San. Need more time to analyze.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Plainly no more than a sidebar to the matter of LM in Thailand, but it does look as if LM in Europe is well on the way to being officially a thing of the past:
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2011/03/end-of-lese-majeste-in-europe.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/15/spain-wrongly-jailed-basque-leader
http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/2372
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Paul #26 Re:
“@Chris
No, you are unfair.
I cannot provide any example of defamation because doing so, I would violate the lese majeste myself, and I’m not prepared to do that.
You cannot deny the fact that the Thai King makes autonomous, uncensored speeches without the government(s)’ approval, which sometimes (and to some, always), have influences in politics.”
1) Paul – they would have to identify you. I wish them luck, searching through all the “Pauls”. Start with McCartney.
then go onto St. Paul, etc.
2) I can not deny that Britain’s Prince Charles makes autonomous, uncensored speeches about talking to plants, about
London’s architectural “carbuncles”, about the Dalai Lama, about all sorts of things “without the government’s approval”, which may or may not have an influence on politics.
I can not deny that Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth instead seems more interested in corgies and horse-races. So what ?
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Tarrin #25 – yes : I agree – article 112 is a very unjust law, which should be revoked.
It is also a very stupid law – not least in that it is wide open to cyber-attack, via a bot-net massive overload of the Thai LM system.
But what can replace it ?
It is highly unlikely Thai conservatives – who may well be the majority of the population – will agree to reform, unless there are strong safeguards protecting the Head of State.