“One more – outrageous LM charge – will likely be the trigger.”
I don’t know whether this will be the “trigger” — but does anybody care about what will happen when it is Khun Chiranut’s turn to disappear in prison for decades?
There are now a range of other strong views being expressed over at The Irrawaddy in response to the article. One commentator has taken the time to add further names to the list of “re-branders or junta apologists (sanctions lifters)”.
If Obama and Co. can say that their position is evolving, why not Maung Zarni? He isn’t allowed to change his position?
I think that he makes a valid point about academics who toe the liberal line, no matter what the consequences.
In regards to Libya; everyone wants something done, but they want the U.S. to do the heavy lifting. It would appear that England and France are trying to egg the U.S. into unilateral action.
It’s rather ironic that Zarni would condemn “organizations that prostitute themselves by spinning for their neo-liberal governmental patrons… in the West.” This is the exact same argument has been leveled against exiled groups opposing the junta (by Michael Aung-Thwin, for example). As far as I’ve seen it, the Western backed pro-democracy opposition has not been proposing anything radically different from neo-liberal government reforms (albeit under a system of electoral politics).
Let us all remember how the current Arab revolutions started – when finally, a poor man in Tunisia said :
I’ve had enough – and set himself, and the region on fire.
Thailand is now, very close to that.
One more – outrageous LM charge – will likely be the trigger.
Sadly, I’m not sure the full version will be worth my time. Of course, Zarni used to be one of those academics he now criticizes. Up until recently, he advocated reconciliation with the regime and a softening of sanctions. From what I heard, he went to Burma back in 2004 to try to negotiate with members of Khin Nyunt’s team. Many in the Burmese community now view his current caustic criticism of the regime as trying to make up for and gloss over this past.
The “lack of any actual evidence” should be highlighted by the fact that there was no interruption in the presence of “Red Eagle” on NorporchorUSA at the time of Khun Thanthawut’s arrest.
You’ve got to hand it to some of the amart dolts – they certainly know how to embarrass their King, and America’s President – who has been planning a Thai visit towards end of this year.
Now Obama is certain to face highly embarrassing questions, especially as the web master just sentenced did not post those comments posted by others in the US – beacon of Free Speech.
Here’s a link to a post on Political Prisoners Thailand blog detailing the scandalous lack of any actual evidence presented in the prosecution’s “case” against Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul.
Imagine 13 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, with no credible evidence presented in court.
The “Thailand Brand” is transforming into the “Police State Brand”…….”Land of Smiles” is turning into the “Land of Frowns”.
The incompetence is staggering, the ethics are non-existent and the “legal process” has become a joke.
The lese majeste law should be abolished right away. It is one of the most inhumane law which should not have existed in any society. It is used as a tool to forbid or suppress those who think and see differently. No democratic country uses this outmoded law any longer.
BTW, as I see it hasn’t yet been mentioned here, I should point to FACT’s comment on the judgment:
[FACT comments: Let’s get something straight–Tantawut was not the NorPhorChorUSA’s webmaster which makes his conviction spurious in the extreme. We attended some of Tantawut’s trial last month and, from our own commonsense observation, we find his conviction beyond belief. In the trial sessions we attended, Tantawut’s defence clearly proved he was not the webmaster for the NorPhorChorUSA website–he had no administrator or password access to the site. Tantawut was only hired as the website’s designer and provided no content to the site. Police and govt witnesses proved no evidence to the contrary.
However, Tantawut’s real crime was living in Thailand, making him an easy target, unlike the NorPhorChor’s real webmasters who all lived overseas. After all, someone needed to be punished to send a clear message to Thai netizens not to cross the imaginary lèse majesté line. 98% of those charged with lèse majesté in Thailand are convicted simply because of blind justice. As he sought to prove his innocence, even after 10 months in gaol without bail, rather than cave in and plead guilty out of fear and shame, Tantawut received no dispensation from the courts. Shame on Thailand!]
“Having said that will either the Puea Thai protest about this during the no confidence debate, or the UDD leadership speak out in support of their supporter? How about ex-PM Thaksin, safe in exile, will he make any comments about the LM law or does he think it may come in handy if he returns.”
Plainly, PT and UDD and Thaksin all have their focus on PT achieving success in the promised* election. Whatever may be their views on LM (and the CCA), it’s clear that there are precious few votes to be gained in opposing it – and plenty to lose when any principled stance against it is portrayed by opponents as further evidence of being anti-monarchy (does anyone here seriously believe they wouldn’t portray it as that?).
It ain’t pretty. It is embarrassing – though not to many Thai voters (or even most redshirts, I suspect). It’s also realpolitik.
As to whether Thaksin thinks those laws “may come in handy if he returns”….. it wouldn’t surprise me if he did. Under current circumstances, I doubt he’d go further than Abhisit and his panel to regulate the application of LM laws. Unlike Abhisit, he just might follow through on the fine words by actually doing something.
* Until the election actually happens, I’ll go on referring to it as “promised” rather than “upcoming”.
I kind of agree, maybe PT and mrT should say something about the resurgence of LM charges, at least it will offer a differing standpoint.
More importantly when John #5 commented above, I remembered what Frank Anderson had written here a while back:
Given that politicos, military men, and police have ‘pledged’ to the King to do their jobs honestly –> they should be then charged with LM for all types of extortion and corruption. <– because what they are doing is real LM
“The laws should be changed to cover treasonable acts of bribery and corruption that ultimately fail to protect not only the reputation of the nation but that of the King who endorses governments who are elected into office”
It’s not onlyelected governments that he endorses, and pointing out that fact is probably illegal based on the way the LM laws are currently administered.
As commented above, Abhisit and the Democrats can take no pride in the way the LM law is being used on their watch. Of course this also applies to the Palace and the Privy Council.
Having said that will either the Puea Thai protest about this during the no confidence debate, or the UDD leadership speak out in support of their supporter? How about ex-PM Thaksin, safe in exile, will he make any comments about the LM law or does he think it may come in handy if he returns.
Its highly ironic when Thai politicians are sworn into office and promise to serve King and country but yet commit treason through the rampant bribery and corruption that runs through their ranks.
People are imprisoned for their words yet Thai politicians can steal from the nation and continue on with impunity.
Stealing from the nation brings more shame to the monarchy than words in blogs . The government is meant to serve King and nation yet they blatantly do the opposite.
The laws should be changed to cover treasonable acts of bribery and corruption that ultimately fail to protect not only the reputation of the nation but that of the King who endorses governments who are elected into office. That they lie to his face should be reason enough for them to receive lengthy prison sentences as their actions are far more destructive than those of words on the net .
Could it be that sensitivity over the King’s health and the issue of succession is overplayed and this political upheaval would be occurring irrespectively as a result of the Thai public being more informed and experienced in the ways of their democracy? Does attributing responsibility to succession and the King’s health for an increase in sensitivity over the royal institution downplay the impact of a more politically aware Thai population? Are Thais more politically aware than a decade ago?
The narrative of the naughty Prince taking over as the good King dies resulting in national chaos is too easy to play into.
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Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
“One more – outrageous LM charge – will likely be the trigger.”
I don’t know whether this will be the “trigger” — but does anybody care about what will happen when it is Khun Chiranut’s turn to disappear in prison for decades?
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
Thanks for all of these comments:
There are now a range of other strong views being expressed over at The Irrawaddy in response to the article. One commentator has taken the time to add further names to the list of “re-branders or junta apologists (sanctions lifters)”.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
@ Maung Maung .
If Obama and Co. can say that their position is evolving, why not Maung Zarni? He isn’t allowed to change his position?
I think that he makes a valid point about academics who toe the liberal line, no matter what the consequences.
In regards to Libya; everyone wants something done, but they want the U.S. to do the heavy lifting. It would appear that England and France are trying to egg the U.S. into unilateral action.
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
Maung Zarni is changing his stance every time there is a change in the political climate in Burma. What should we believe him?
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
It’s rather ironic that Zarni would condemn “organizations that prostitute themselves by spinning for their neo-liberal governmental patrons… in the West.” This is the exact same argument has been leveled against exiled groups opposing the junta (by Michael Aung-Thwin, for example). As far as I’ve seen it, the Western backed pro-democracy opposition has not been proposing anything radically different from neo-liberal government reforms (albeit under a system of electoral politics).
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Let us all remember how the current Arab revolutions started – when finally, a poor man in Tunisia said :
I’ve had enough – and set himself, and the region on fire.
Thailand is now, very close to that.
One more – outrageous LM charge – will likely be the trigger.
Zarni comes out firing at Burma experts, again
Sadly, I’m not sure the full version will be worth my time. Of course, Zarni used to be one of those academics he now criticizes. Up until recently, he advocated reconciliation with the regime and a softening of sanctions. From what I heard, he went to Burma back in 2004 to try to negotiate with members of Khin Nyunt’s team. Many in the Burmese community now view his current caustic criticism of the regime as trying to make up for and gloss over this past.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
The “lack of any actual evidence” should be highlighted by the fact that there was no interruption in the presence of “Red Eagle” on NorporchorUSA at the time of Khun Thanthawut’s arrest.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
You’ve got to hand it to some of the amart dolts – they certainly know how to embarrass their King, and America’s President – who has been planning a Thai visit towards end of this year.
Now Obama is certain to face highly embarrassing questions, especially as the web master just sentenced did not post those comments posted by others in the US – beacon of Free Speech.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Thailnd has suffered this insane and atrocious law for so long. It must be done away with completely or democracy will never prevail against all odds.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Here’s a link to a post on Political Prisoners Thailand blog detailing the scandalous lack of any actual evidence presented in the prosecution’s “case” against Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul.
Imagine 13 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, with no credible evidence presented in court.
The “Thailand Brand” is transforming into the “Police State Brand”…….”Land of Smiles” is turning into the “Land of Frowns”.
The incompetence is staggering, the ethics are non-existent and the “legal process” has become a joke.
https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/more-on-tanthawuts-lese-majeste-conviction/
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
The lese majeste law should be abolished right away. It is one of the most inhumane law which should not have existed in any society. It is used as a tool to forbid or suppress those who think and see differently. No democratic country uses this outmoded law any longer.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
BTW, as I see it hasn’t yet been mentioned here, I should point to FACT’s comment on the judgment:
[FACT comments: Let’s get something straight–Tantawut was not the NorPhorChorUSA’s webmaster which makes his conviction spurious in the extreme. We attended some of Tantawut’s trial last month and, from our own commonsense observation, we find his conviction beyond belief. In the trial sessions we attended, Tantawut’s defence clearly proved he was not the webmaster for the NorPhorChorUSA website–he had no administrator or password access to the site. Tantawut was only hired as the website’s designer and provided no content to the site. Police and govt witnesses proved no evidence to the contrary.
However, Tantawut’s real crime was living in Thailand, making him an easy target, unlike the NorPhorChor’s real webmasters who all lived overseas. After all, someone needed to be punished to send a clear message to Thai netizens not to cross the imaginary lèse majesté line. 98% of those charged with lèse majesté in Thailand are convicted simply because of blind justice. As he sought to prove his innocence, even after 10 months in gaol without bail, rather than cave in and plead guilty out of fear and shame, Tantawut received no dispensation from the courts. Shame on Thailand!]
http://facthai.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/web-designer-sentenced-to-13-years-for-lese-majeste-bangkok-post/
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
c6
“Having said that will either the Puea Thai protest about this during the no confidence debate, or the UDD leadership speak out in support of their supporter? How about ex-PM Thaksin, safe in exile, will he make any comments about the LM law or does he think it may come in handy if he returns.”
Plainly, PT and UDD and Thaksin all have their focus on PT achieving success in the promised* election. Whatever may be their views on LM (and the CCA), it’s clear that there are precious few votes to be gained in opposing it – and plenty to lose when any principled stance against it is portrayed by opponents as further evidence of being anti-monarchy (does anyone here seriously believe they wouldn’t portray it as that?).
It ain’t pretty. It is embarrassing – though not to many Thai voters (or even most redshirts, I suspect). It’s also realpolitik.
As to whether Thaksin thinks those laws “may come in handy if he returns”….. it wouldn’t surprise me if he did. Under current circumstances, I doubt he’d go further than Abhisit and his panel to regulate the application of LM laws. Unlike Abhisit, he just might follow through on the fine words by actually doing something.
* Until the election actually happens, I’ll go on referring to it as “promised” rather than “upcoming”.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
What Les Abbey said:
I kind of agree, maybe PT and mrT should say something about the resurgence of LM charges, at least it will offer a differing standpoint.
More importantly when John #5 commented above, I remembered what Frank Anderson had written here a while back:
Given that politicos, military men, and police have ‘pledged’ to the King to do their jobs honestly –> they should be then charged with LM for all types of extortion and corruption. <– because what they are doing is real LM
Agreed?
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Disgusting. The aphichon/ammat really seem to be intent on provoking a revolt against them.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
“The laws should be changed to cover treasonable acts of bribery and corruption that ultimately fail to protect not only the reputation of the nation but that of the King who endorses governments who are elected into office”
It’s not only elected governments that he endorses, and pointing out that fact is probably illegal based on the way the LM laws are currently administered.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
As commented above, Abhisit and the Democrats can take no pride in the way the LM law is being used on their watch. Of course this also applies to the Palace and the Privy Council.
Having said that will either the Puea Thai protest about this during the no confidence debate, or the UDD leadership speak out in support of their supporter? How about ex-PM Thaksin, safe in exile, will he make any comments about the LM law or does he think it may come in handy if he returns.
Thanthawut Taweewarodomkul gets 13 years
Its highly ironic when Thai politicians are sworn into office and promise to serve King and country but yet commit treason through the rampant bribery and corruption that runs through their ranks.
People are imprisoned for their words yet Thai politicians can steal from the nation and continue on with impunity.
Stealing from the nation brings more shame to the monarchy than words in blogs . The government is meant to serve King and nation yet they blatantly do the opposite.
The laws should be changed to cover treasonable acts of bribery and corruption that ultimately fail to protect not only the reputation of the nation but that of the King who endorses governments who are elected into office. That they lie to his face should be reason enough for them to receive lengthy prison sentences as their actions are far more destructive than those of words on the net .
Thai political strife…in 53 words or less
Could it be that sensitivity over the King’s health and the issue of succession is overplayed and this political upheaval would be occurring irrespectively as a result of the Thai public being more informed and experienced in the ways of their democracy? Does attributing responsibility to succession and the King’s health for an increase in sensitivity over the royal institution downplay the impact of a more politically aware Thai population? Are Thais more politically aware than a decade ago?
The narrative of the naughty Prince taking over as the good King dies resulting in national chaos is too easy to play into.