Tarrin – 39
Where have you been, corruption by the elite has been the core argument of the UDD, what can you possibly mean by “corruption is the last thing Thailand has to worry now.” There whole argument is this government came to power through the corruption and melding of the military and it has no legitimacy, and should be dissolved and new elections held.
Tarrin – 41
I’m pretty sure that I have my facts correct.
I never said that the Monarchy had no influence just no “official” power.
Since 1932 Thailand has had 17 Constitutions and 11 different coup’s or attempted coup’s
The other thing that I did not mention, obviously is the influence of the military. In order for a true democracy to work leaders would have to elected who would turn the military into an arm of the government, for protecting it citizens and country not a ruling force. But of course that would cause another coup d’etat. What a circular mess there in here.
You know many children either want to be a policeman or a General here when they grow up, and not for altruistic reasons, but it is seen as an effective way to earn money, power and status.
And I certainly do agree with you on your position of Les Majeste, Thailand does have one of the harshest penalties for that of all European and most Asian countries. But other monarchies also have such Les Majeste laws but they are defined and clear and not arbitrarily used to silence and oppress. And this king himself implied that these laws should be changed and he did not believe that he was above criticism in his 1995 speech.
1932: a coup d’etat
1933: Manopakorn dissolves the National Assembly and rules by decree
1947: Military coup by General Phin Choonhavan
1951: Phibun leads another military coup
1957: a coup by General Sarit Thanarat
1976: An attempted military coup
1977: a military coup
1981: An attempted coup
1985: An attempted coup
1991: a military coup
2006: The armed forces take power, and to some degree still hold it I believe anyway
The longer I work in Southeast Asia, the more I believe in NGOs, multilaterals and bilaterals withdrawing aid funds until corruption is reduced.
Personally, corruption got so bad for me in Cambodia that it became just about impossible to work. Projects that might have saved whole industries had to be abandoned because I would not hand high officials part of the project funds in the form of ‘salaries’, ‘special payments’, etc.
Currently the abovementioned aid bodies contribute to vast fortunes made by elites unconcerned by the fate of their countrymen & women.
To retire this nation-sapping syndrome, I propose what I call the ‘transfer model’. The idea is to identify the handful of relatively uncorrupt developing world nations, & progressively transfer donor funds from Laos, Cambodia, et al to them – at a rate of, say, 15% per year – until governance improves.
Short-term pain for the poor, for sure – but medium-term gain is also likely. Moreover the latter would likely outweigh the former, as a lower quotient would go to corrupt ends.
Finally, funds so transferred would benefit the poor in the transferee nation – so there would not actually be a nett loss at any stage.
“Last October, a few weeks after he gave us his story, he was found dead in a rare form of suspected suicide with a bag taped around his head in an LA motel room”. An extract from: Film tribute to Ross Boyert, for openly speaking out against Taib.
Some brief comments for Anthony (#39): leaving aside your dated (for this site) comments on the monarchy and system of government, better look at this site: http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings
You might notice that Thailand ranks above Taiwan and India.
Last DFI data I could find (2009) shows Thailand behind India (but well ahead per capita).
You say: “What Thailand needs is a leadership that is going to attempt to tackle the almost insurmountable problem of corruption here. And that can only be achieved through better economic policies, not social welfare for the masses, as that type of program is not sustainable. Real democratic changes must occur…”. Corruption is a big issue, but on the next point, couldn’t social welfare be a democratic choice? In fact wasn’t it in 2001 and 2005?
“But as Najib Razak was being feted at ceremonies, Malaysian civil liberties activist Raja Petra Kamarudin was also meeting politicians in Canberra, urging them to speak out about human rights and state-sponsored racism in Malaysia. Raja Petra has also called on Australia to push to send monitors to Malaysia’s elections. There was no mention of such issues though as Australia’s Julia Gillard hosted her Malaysian counterpart”. An extract from: Linda Mottram, Radio Australia.
“Could it be some kind of esoteric intellectual in-joke? Or a quid pro quo for the Najib government’s recent, unprecedented granting of RM1.1 million (A$361,000) in research grants to academic staff of the Monash campus in Sunway, KL?” An extract from: Dean Johns, Malaysiakini
Thai people should realize the Thailand is not and has not been a monarchy since about 1932-33. The king though renowned and revered, has no real power and that the power rest with the so called ‘elected officials’ .
I think you simply get your fact wrong there, first of although it is true that Monarchy was pretty much non-existed right after 1932 but then Rama VIII was bought back from oversea by Pridi. After Sarit Thanarat stage the coup to get rid of the last of the People Assembly, Sarit pretty much gave back all the power to the Monarch, the prime example is the increase the severity of the article 112 from 6 months-2 years jail term to 3 – 15 years jail term.
The incident during massacre of 1973, 1976, and 1992 pretty much shows that the Monarch still veil significant influence, and corruption is the last thing Thailand has to worry now.
Can’t disagree with Norman Lewis! But can’t help thinking that many Singaporeans and Malaysians might qualify him. And where would places like London be without Soho or its equivalent? I do not feel the Chinese need or want any defence from me, an Englishman, but it would be interesting to get some Chinese and overseas Chinese views on the longer-term effects of ‘crow-like’ vitality. Certainly it qualified ‘may pen rai’ in Thailand. Looking at the SEA region as a whole, the benefits might be seen as outweighing any cultural differences — and let’s remember that cultural effects work in two directions.
Though “The anti-monarchy feeling is very strong now.” the Thai people should realize the Thailand is not and has not been a monarchy since about 1932-33. The king though renowned and revered, has no real power and that the power rest with the so called ‘elected officials’ . Article 112 does not necessarily need to be removed but changed. As it stands now missing from the Code, of article 112 however, is a definition of what actions constitute “defamation” or “insult”, that should be clearly defined so that Lèse majesté can not be used as a personal shield or sword for those in power to incarcerate and silence their opposition.
And for Thaksin certainly or at least hopeful Thai people are not considering putting him into any position of power of influence. He most definitely through his actions and past record is no friend of free speech and human rights. Though he did through some social and economic reforms enact a few pieces of legislation provisions that aided the poor and less well off, does not make him a beacon for Democracy, free speech and true democratic change.
What Thailand needs is a leadership that is going to attempt to tackle the almost insurmountable problem of corruption here. And that can only be achieved through better economic policies, not social welfare for the masses, as that type of program is not sustainable. Real democratic changes must occur and policies need to be enacted that make it more conducive for foreign investors to do business here, not harder. While Taiwan and India are seeing huge influxes of foreign investment and countries setting up shop there Thailand is being left out of this picture. With it’s huge work force and many other benefits Thailand should be a part of this global economic boom, instead it’s policies remain isolationistic and unfriendly to foreign traffic and investment, relying solely on tourism “which of course should not be neglected.”
Yes, it’s brutal, barbaric and feudal. I’ve never had any other impression of Thai politics. We’ll probably witness both of your options.
When the cash is on the table for the faction string-pullers (as it always is), all those fine words about democracy will fly out the window and yet another amaat faction will end up with its snout firmly in the exchequer pig trough. Cue the next round of bloodletting to protect their ‘investment’.
At least some of the denial you talk about is actually people facing up to the stark reality that the conditions are right only for a bloodbath that will achieve nothing more than bring on yet another bunch of greed-driven megalomaniacs.
If I were the Opposition in Malaysia, who get to rule after the next General Elections in Malaysia, I would condemn Monash University.
I would also de-recognise the University and close down the thriving campus, it has established in Malaysia.
This is what I would definitely do!
For recognizing a murderous scum of a dictator and awarding him a honorable title as well!
Any reasonable government will do so. Dictators and the people and or institutions who support these dictators should be abhorred!
I hope the above posting got you to rethink your priorities about your Prime Minister. This is just one discrepancy in the Altantuya murder investigation and and trial.
There are lots more. In fact heaps more.
Wikileaks cable between Singapore and Canberra, reveals Singapore military inteligence having info on Najib. If anybody who can be trusted in South East Asia, I would put all my money on Singapore.
The cable states that Najib’s neck is on the line, for the Altantuya murder and that he would do anything just to hold on to power, to avoid a murder prosecution. This enough for you?
Do you want info on Malaysia being the central hub of people smuggling and the resultant boat arrivals in Australia? Just ask, I will be more than happy to provide!
Next is with regards to Monash University. Constitutional law is normally read in the first year of any law undergraduate degree and I would think that Monash would not differ.
Within the ambit of Constitutional law, there are two fundamental precepts. they are;-
(1) The Rule of Law and
(2) The Doctrine of the Separation of Powers.
Najib does not subscribe to either. I would really like to know what they really teach at Monash, if they award Najib with a Doctorate in Laws.
Inter Alia (or amongst other things) Najib has a really unresolved murder case hanging over his head and an orchestrated sham of a criminal trial against the Opposition Leader in Malaysia.
Just these two have rocked to the very core, the principle of the Rule Of Law and the Separation of Powers. Lest not forget that there is also ongoing criminal investigation in France on Najib.
Today’s High Court ruling to allow a ‘trial within a trial’ is as I see it, another of Najib’s ‘Whitewash’ to fool the Australian Government and people, on his visit here, that the Opposition Leader is getting a fair trial. Lets see what really happens.
Coming back to Monash University, this esteemed treasure of a learning house and academia, have established a third precept to Constitutional law.
Which is the Doctrine of The Separation of Powers and the Rule of law is also subject to MONEY!
Money in the sense that they get much revenue from Malaysian Students and that everything must be done to promote this. For them it is…….Forget the Rule Of Law and The Separation of Powers.
They have set an unprecedented precedent that their law degree is worth nothing from now on.
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Where to now for the UDD?
Tarrin – 39
Where have you been, corruption by the elite has been the core argument of the UDD, what can you possibly mean by “corruption is the last thing Thailand has to worry now.” There whole argument is this government came to power through the corruption and melding of the military and it has no legitimacy, and should be dissolved and new elections held.
Where to now for the UDD?
Tarrin – 41
I’m pretty sure that I have my facts correct.
I never said that the Monarchy had no influence just no “official” power.
Since 1932 Thailand has had 17 Constitutions and 11 different coup’s or attempted coup’s
The other thing that I did not mention, obviously is the influence of the military. In order for a true democracy to work leaders would have to elected who would turn the military into an arm of the government, for protecting it citizens and country not a ruling force. But of course that would cause another coup d’etat. What a circular mess there in here.
You know many children either want to be a policeman or a General here when they grow up, and not for altruistic reasons, but it is seen as an effective way to earn money, power and status.
And I certainly do agree with you on your position of Les Majeste, Thailand does have one of the harshest penalties for that of all European and most Asian countries. But other monarchies also have such Les Majeste laws but they are defined and clear and not arbitrarily used to silence and oppress. And this king himself implied that these laws should be changed and he did not believe that he was above criticism in his 1995 speech.
1932: a coup d’etat
1933: Manopakorn dissolves the National Assembly and rules by decree
1947: Military coup by General Phin Choonhavan
1951: Phibun leads another military coup
1957: a coup by General Sarit Thanarat
1976: An attempted military coup
1977: a military coup
1981: An attempted coup
1985: An attempted coup
1991: a military coup
2006: The armed forces take power, and to some degree still hold it I believe anyway
Where to now for the UDD?
While Taiwan and India are seeing huge influxes of foreign investment and countries setting up shop there Thailand is being left out of this picture.
That’s good for India and Taiwan, and bad for Thailand? I rather take the opposite view.
The internal frontier: Chinese extraterritoriality in northern Laos?
The Chinese are better than|no worse than the French|Americans|Germans is of little interest to anyone but the apologists of present|past imperialism.
This is like the Israeli argument concerning their treatment of the Palestinians vs, say, the US treatment of the ‘native North Americans’.
The imperialists are all no damn good. Lessor|greater degrees of no-goodness make little difference long term to the Lao.
Corruption and media exposure in Laos
The longer I work in Southeast Asia, the more I believe in NGOs, multilaterals and bilaterals withdrawing aid funds until corruption is reduced.
Personally, corruption got so bad for me in Cambodia that it became just about impossible to work. Projects that might have saved whole industries had to be abandoned because I would not hand high officials part of the project funds in the form of ‘salaries’, ‘special payments’, etc.
Currently the abovementioned aid bodies contribute to vast fortunes made by elites unconcerned by the fate of their countrymen & women.
To retire this nation-sapping syndrome, I propose what I call the ‘transfer model’. The idea is to identify the handful of relatively uncorrupt developing world nations, & progressively transfer donor funds from Laos, Cambodia, et al to them – at a rate of, say, 15% per year – until governance improves.
Short-term pain for the poor, for sure – but medium-term gain is also likely. Moreover the latter would likely outweigh the former, as a lower quotient would go to corrupt ends.
Finally, funds so transferred would benefit the poor in the transferee nation – so there would not actually be a nett loss at any stage.
The Sarawak Revolution!
“Last October, a few weeks after he gave us his story, he was found dead in a rare form of suspected suicide with a bag taped around his head in an LA motel room”. An extract from: Film tribute to Ross Boyert, for openly speaking out against Taib.
Where to now for the UDD?
Some brief comments for Anthony (#39): leaving aside your dated (for this site) comments on the monarchy and system of government, better look at this site: http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings
You might notice that Thailand ranks above Taiwan and India.
Last DFI data I could find (2009) shows Thailand behind India (but well ahead per capita).
You say: “What Thailand needs is a leadership that is going to attempt to tackle the almost insurmountable problem of corruption here. And that can only be achieved through better economic policies, not social welfare for the masses, as that type of program is not sustainable. Real democratic changes must occur…”. Corruption is a big issue, but on the next point, couldn’t social welfare be a democratic choice? In fact wasn’t it in 2001 and 2005?
Raja Petra Kamarudin in Canberra – podcast
“But as Najib Razak was being feted at ceremonies, Malaysian civil liberties activist Raja Petra Kamarudin was also meeting politicians in Canberra, urging them to speak out about human rights and state-sponsored racism in Malaysia. Raja Petra has also called on Australia to push to send monitors to Malaysia’s elections. There was no mention of such issues though as Australia’s Julia Gillard hosted her Malaysian counterpart”. An extract from: Linda Mottram, Radio Australia.
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
“Could it be some kind of esoteric intellectual in-joke? Or a quid pro quo for the Najib government’s recent, unprecedented granting of RM1.1 million (A$361,000) in research grants to academic staff of the Monash campus in Sunway, KL?” An extract from: Dean Johns, Malaysiakini
The internal frontier: Chinese extraterritoriality in northern Laos?
Norman Lewis, just another “englishman” yearning for glories long gone… sad.
Where to now for the UDD?
Anthony – 39
Thai people should realize the Thailand is not and has not been a monarchy since about 1932-33. The king though renowned and revered, has no real power and that the power rest with the so called ‘elected officials’ .
I think you simply get your fact wrong there, first of although it is true that Monarchy was pretty much non-existed right after 1932 but then Rama VIII was bought back from oversea by Pridi. After Sarit Thanarat stage the coup to get rid of the last of the People Assembly, Sarit pretty much gave back all the power to the Monarch, the prime example is the increase the severity of the article 112 from 6 months-2 years jail term to 3 – 15 years jail term.
The incident during massacre of 1973, 1976, and 1992 pretty much shows that the Monarch still veil significant influence, and corruption is the last thing Thailand has to worry now.
The internal frontier: Chinese extraterritoriality in northern Laos?
Can’t disagree with Norman Lewis! But can’t help thinking that many Singaporeans and Malaysians might qualify him. And where would places like London be without Soho or its equivalent? I do not feel the Chinese need or want any defence from me, an Englishman, but it would be interesting to get some Chinese and overseas Chinese views on the longer-term effects of ‘crow-like’ vitality. Certainly it qualified ‘may pen rai’ in Thailand. Looking at the SEA region as a whole, the benefits might be seen as outweighing any cultural differences — and let’s remember that cultural effects work in two directions.
Where to now for the UDD?
in the Bangkok Post today:
“Phuea Thai certain to restrict role of Red Shirts”
read the article.
Another piece of evidence I would like to show you Tarinn and Jim.
First I want to thank NM for ‘opening’ my eyes.
Now I ask you to open yours as well.
Tweeting a social scientific revolution?
All flows – Heraclitus
Where to now for the UDD?
Though “The anti-monarchy feeling is very strong now.” the Thai people should realize the Thailand is not and has not been a monarchy since about 1932-33. The king though renowned and revered, has no real power and that the power rest with the so called ‘elected officials’ . Article 112 does not necessarily need to be removed but changed. As it stands now missing from the Code, of article 112 however, is a definition of what actions constitute “defamation” or “insult”, that should be clearly defined so that Lèse majesté can not be used as a personal shield or sword for those in power to incarcerate and silence their opposition.
And for Thaksin certainly or at least hopeful Thai people are not considering putting him into any position of power of influence. He most definitely through his actions and past record is no friend of free speech and human rights. Though he did through some social and economic reforms enact a few pieces of legislation provisions that aided the poor and less well off, does not make him a beacon for Democracy, free speech and true democratic change.
What Thailand needs is a leadership that is going to attempt to tackle the almost insurmountable problem of corruption here. And that can only be achieved through better economic policies, not social welfare for the masses, as that type of program is not sustainable. Real democratic changes must occur and policies need to be enacted that make it more conducive for foreign investors to do business here, not harder. While Taiwan and India are seeing huge influxes of foreign investment and countries setting up shop there Thailand is being left out of this picture. With it’s huge work force and many other benefits Thailand should be a part of this global economic boom, instead it’s policies remain isolationistic and unfriendly to foreign traffic and investment, relying solely on tourism “which of course should not be neglected.”
I am Malaysian, hear me roar…
A limited copy of this book can be obtained during RPK’s visit to Canberra. Please go here (http://www.facebook.com/msafriends#!/photo.php?fbid=131219296946846&set=pu.129453120456797&theater) for event details.
RPK will personally autograph the book. This is a social event and a Photo Op to take that sought after picture with the man
Court win for Da Torpedo
Yes, it’s brutal, barbaric and feudal. I’ve never had any other impression of Thai politics. We’ll probably witness both of your options.
When the cash is on the table for the faction string-pullers (as it always is), all those fine words about democracy will fly out the window and yet another amaat faction will end up with its snout firmly in the exchequer pig trough. Cue the next round of bloodletting to protect their ‘investment’.
At least some of the denial you talk about is actually people facing up to the stark reality that the conditions are right only for a bloodbath that will achieve nothing more than bring on yet another bunch of greed-driven megalomaniacs.
Tweeting a social scientific revolution?
Yes, mining tweets will be as useful as going through Bob Dylan’s garbage or monitoring Citizen Band radio transcripts.
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
If I were the Opposition in Malaysia, who get to rule after the next General Elections in Malaysia, I would condemn Monash University.
I would also de-recognise the University and close down the thriving campus, it has established in Malaysia.
This is what I would definitely do!
For recognizing a murderous scum of a dictator and awarding him a honorable title as well!
Any reasonable government will do so. Dictators and the people and or institutions who support these dictators should be abhorred!
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
Lim Weng Marc
I hope the above posting got you to rethink your priorities about your Prime Minister. This is just one discrepancy in the Altantuya murder investigation and and trial.
There are lots more. In fact heaps more.
Wikileaks cable between Singapore and Canberra, reveals Singapore military inteligence having info on Najib. If anybody who can be trusted in South East Asia, I would put all my money on Singapore.
The cable states that Najib’s neck is on the line, for the Altantuya murder and that he would do anything just to hold on to power, to avoid a murder prosecution. This enough for you?
Do you want info on Malaysia being the central hub of people smuggling and the resultant boat arrivals in Australia? Just ask, I will be more than happy to provide!
Next is with regards to Monash University. Constitutional law is normally read in the first year of any law undergraduate degree and I would think that Monash would not differ.
Within the ambit of Constitutional law, there are two fundamental precepts. they are;-
(1) The Rule of Law and
(2) The Doctrine of the Separation of Powers.
Najib does not subscribe to either. I would really like to know what they really teach at Monash, if they award Najib with a Doctorate in Laws.
Inter Alia (or amongst other things) Najib has a really unresolved murder case hanging over his head and an orchestrated sham of a criminal trial against the Opposition Leader in Malaysia.
Just these two have rocked to the very core, the principle of the Rule Of Law and the Separation of Powers. Lest not forget that there is also ongoing criminal investigation in France on Najib.
Today’s High Court ruling to allow a ‘trial within a trial’ is as I see it, another of Najib’s ‘Whitewash’ to fool the Australian Government and people, on his visit here, that the Opposition Leader is getting a fair trial. Lets see what really happens.
Coming back to Monash University, this esteemed treasure of a learning house and academia, have established a third precept to Constitutional law.
Which is the Doctrine of The Separation of Powers and the Rule of law is also subject to MONEY!
Money in the sense that they get much revenue from Malaysian Students and that everything must be done to promote this. For them it is…….Forget the Rule Of Law and The Separation of Powers.
They have set an unprecedented precedent that their law degree is worth nothing from now on.
Shame on Monash University!