I, quite frankly, am appalled that you’re all harping on about parties that seem to be mirror images of one another. You can’t possibly believe that the opposition is going to bring anything but the exact same gameplan the government has been employing forever? Have you tried reading PKRs manifesto and what they stand for? I have. Doesn’t sound much different that what BNs main ideas seem to be. Whatever it is you THINK they’re saying, it seems they’re both still holding on to old values that have become quite outdated in this day and age. I believe it’s about time we started looking for other parties that stand for ideals and talk about lawmaking and policies instead of the age old ‘race’ rhetoric.
Why grumble about the course you have attended? It’s your choice. No body imposed it on you. What about the training at Sandhurst and West Point? I don’t think there is any fundamental difference. The only difference is that graduates of the Burmese DSA are usurping the State Power of the people!
I actually agree with your observation. The UDD leaderships refuse to touch on the matter sort of indicated their unwilling to tackle one of the most important core problems of Thailand. This is certainly not a good sign for a movement that is suppose to revolve around social change and democratic revolution.
LesAbbey, you seem intent on conflating legal and legitimate. Others – including myself – see a clear distinction where legitimacy conferred by a genuine popular mandate is concerned. You will no doubt roll out the argument that each MP was elected etc. If that were all that ever mattered, we would not be making comparisons between Gillard, Brown and Abhisit. Why not bring Mubarak into the equation? The Egyptian parliament was packed with 90% pro-Mubarak MPs – who for decades controlled who was allowed to stand against Mubarak in presidential elections. A classic self-perpetuating mechanism. All very legal. Legitimate?
“Where of course which party the prime minister comes from has nothing to do with his legitimacy.”
See what I mean? I doubt you do.
“By the way Steve if I were you I wouldn’t go too deeply into whether Newin was bought by the Democrats or not, as like any good tart it’s unlikely to be his first trick. We could look at the formation of the TRT if you want;-)”
You seem to be confusing me with someone who regards Thaksin’s majority-building machinations as perfectly respectable. Are you trying to imply that my critical view of the current government’s set-up is without precedent? That I would somehow be embarrassed to learn that Newin & Co have whored from the outset. That his track record with other “clients” in any way mitigates Abhisit getting into bed with him?
This questions thing of yours seems to be catching….. I might start to consider a response to your latest all-too-familiar batch after I see you start giving straight answers to the questions and requests for substantiation put to you.
——-
PS> A belated apology to Stuart (c6) who did raise the same-party factor from a “different” angle. My c17 effectively reiterates his point.
Btw, the news has just released something unfortunate to see in the Kerdau by-election in Malaysia.
“DAP is playing a supporting role to PAS in this campaign. Its ceramah will begin tonight and it is planning to bring in its superstar Lim Guan Eng to fire up the mood.
However, its local star, Triang assemblyman Leong Ngah Ngah, will be absent. Leong, who is the Pahang DAP chief, is leaving today for a family holiday in Chiangmai and will be back a day after polling.”
as an opposition movement against the government
as a liberal movement against military rule
as a justice movement against double-standards
why haven’t the mainstream red shirt leaders, financiers included, come out to speak in favor of the ‘freedoms’ that should be awarded to Daranee, Chiranuch, and Surachai while (for political reasons) completely distancing themselves from the held positions?
ie: in our ‘belief’ system, we fully support the freedom of said ppl because we believe in an open and multi-representative society.
Lack of such support only makes me suspicious that the very freedoms curbing speech and free thought are exactly the rules and laws under which they (the opposition phuea thai and mrT) want to use to recement their power and their power bases.
am i so wrong?
again, this is not in defense of the reprehensible movements of the current government, but this post is titled “where to now for the udd” and I really wonder if they will take the harder road (protect all free speech, even the ones they disagree with).
Is there anywhere a world class university? Certainly a university charging rather substantial fees has to market itself. World class university is such a marketing gimmick, and as other “trademarks” copied. The best marketing is through rankings, which don’t say much. To have a university which is “excellent” in all areas would be impossible to find, as there are always certain specifications.
I noticed another aspect related to world class universities that charge high fees. Several times I met someone who got a higher degree (MA, Ph.D.) from a reknown “world class” university using englisch as language of instruction. While talking with the person I was rather surprised about the language skills. Can it be that someone might prepare a Ph.D. but is more or less unable to have a conversation in the language the thesis was written in? It seems that for quite a few the degree exhibited in the “hall of frames” provides “symbolic power” unrelated to any scientific interest or competence.
There will definitely be 5 more arrests on LM charge.
Unfortunately, I have to use this post again to announce news of upcoming arrests on LM charge. This time the court, according to the DSI Director, has already granted arrest warrants for 5 more persons (yet unnamed). And more arrest warrants are on the ways. See breaking news here (sorry, in Thai): http://breakingnews.nationchannel.com/read.php?newsid=497104
It now appears that the state is using a “two-prong” strategy: on the one hand, making some “concession” to the mainstream Red Shirt, the UDD, on the other hand, attacking minor Red Shirt tendencies deemed threatening to the monarchy. See further the discussion at this Jim Taylor post: http://www.newmandala.org/2011/02/25/where-to-now-for-the-udd/
Q “Ji says he is a “chalatan” and seems to infer that he/Ji is the only pure “leftist” remaining. The rest are simply fake Socialists. There is nothing fake about Surachai – I spent time with him in January and I have nothing but admiration. But he doesn’t actually claim to be “left” – just someone sincere in seeking justice and fairness in Thai society.” UQ
So, Ji is the only leftist left in the villages? Or rather, in exile. Can’t say I blame him. No one has really listened to him much in his entire career.
It doesn’t look like we will be seeing an electable named socialist party anytime soon. Presumably that is why we only ever hear talk about colors. In full knowledge that say 50% of the electorate would never be able to accept such a name – not even those who are prepared to wear red, yellow or farm out all their social responsibilities to despots and their amaat kith & kin. In such a pathetic situation, it surely can’t be too difficult for intellectuals to realize that we have all been going down a very long cul-de-sac for decades. Presumably in the hope that someone will have bulldozed a way through just before we reach the end. Some hope.
So what were the tactical reasons for those left groups that joined the red-shirt UDD movement? Do/did they see a means of increasing their own organizations strength in numbers by joining the pro-Thaksin and Thakisn financed movement?
There is nothing new in this. Even in the UK groups ranging from the old Stalinists to post-war Trotskyists have argued about the tactic of ‘entryism’, mainly in relation to the British Labour Party. There are three ‘get-out’ points as far as I know. First expulsion – as when the the Militant Group was expelled from the British Labour Party in the 80s. Second would be when the group thought it had achieved as much increased membership as it possibly could. Third would be when it took over the entire movement it had entered, rather than exiting.
Is the third option achievable? Some accounts have that Surachai’s group has already been the victim of option one. How long is Giles in the red-shirt movement for? Does he see an exit point?
Myself, as I have made clear in the past, I see joining a Thaksin controlled movement as unprincipled. The UDD was never a Thai equivalent of a pro-democracy movement anywhere else in the world and neither is it a social democrat grouping.
Only the most cynical could see the problems associated with the return of Thaksin as an opportunity to carry forward their own group’s aspirations. Again I will remind people that in Iran the mullahs murderously turned very quickly on the Iranian left that helped them to power. I suspect there is a lesson in that.
The dilemma facing Andrew and other scholars is really a reflection of a larger issue related to the ICTS: almost from its inception there has been an elephant, or rather several elephants, in the auditorium of the ICTS related to the question of whether it is a conference on studies of Thailand/Thai people or T’ai studies. To academic institutions in Thailand, probably owing to the need to gain funding approval for holding the ICTS, it has meant the former, with the focus strongly on Thailand and reflecting Thai interests. When held in international contexts, however, the focus has generally been been much broader, with greater room for content related to T’ai (and other) peoples in other countries, and reflecting the specific interests and politics of the host country. This was seen most dramatically in the case of the highly politicised Kunming ICTS, as Doug Miles has alluded to in his response, and is also reflected in the fact that the ICTS has yet to be held in Laos or Vietnam (the other elephants in the ICTS).
The problem with a focus on Thai interests is that, given the structure of the education system in Thailand, where universities lack the degree of autonomy enjoyed by similar institutions in Europe, the US and Australia, together with laws and policies, such as LM and censorship (including self-censorship) in many areas, that are “unsupportive” to rigorous academic discussion, whenever the ICTS is held in Thailand the content tends to be uncontroversial and strongly driven by conservative Thai agendas. Of course there are some exceptions – the session on the monarchy at the 2008 conference in Bangkok is one – but Andrew’s report that he has been advised that he would not be welcome at the 2011 ICTS suggests that this conference will be no different.
As with so many “difficult” questions in Thailand the answer seems to have been to ignore these elephants, persisting with the cumbersome “one in Thailand, one international” formula that resolves nothing and ensures debates such as the present one re-surface regularly. However, unless some serious attempt is made to review the objectives and guidelines of the ICTS, then we will have to resign ourselves to a situation where, when it is held in Thailand the ICTS will defer to the prevailing political climate, and where the most frank discussion of Thai institutions, politics and society takes place outside the country
Ji #14 (Andrew Walker) I never said that the “deal” was a swap for Surachai’s scalp- though conjectually it may have appeared to many to be the case. UDD would not do that for reasons Ji states. This was part of the regime’s cunning/the arrest warrant was in the pocket of the police for months and they were waiting for the right time to exacerbate a division they could see was already becoming more evident in the movement…
The masses at bimonthly demonstrations were talking about different concerns to those talking on the stage. This is precisely the problem of disjuncture in UDD leadership.
Perhaps Giles ought be a little more circumspect in his “analysis” of Surachai.
Surachai is undergoing what Giles himself is transparently unwilling to
experience. I suppose showing even a fraction of uncertainty in the purity of our ideals
is a sign of weakness but rather that than be damned a fool.
LesAbbey, well, to me it all depends on how you define “left” and without trying to obfuscate it is complex and goes back to beginning of 1980s, CPT granted amnesty under Prem gaze; two sections emerged depending on their network alliances: CPT now aligned with red shirts/pro-electoral democracy and yellow shirts/ those former CPT now working with palace/old regime- and lobbied by military in helping them stage coups (I call this group members of the “thai falange”). And the schism is deep. The “left” Red and “left” Yellow divisions are reflected in the CPT leadership…As we know the core group disbanded in 2009 (officially at least) when its then Secretary General of the central committee Thong jamsii (a Marxist) quit. The new Secretary General Vinai Permpoonsap, is pro-yellow-shirt/falangist/ and probably aligned with the reactionary elements of the Labour Movement and has gained some influence.
Interestingly, PAD earlier included Weng and Tida on their ticket. They first became “politicised” in May 1992 and went on to for a pro-democracy group with Prateep Ungsongtham Hata. Weng was known by “comrades” as somewhat ambitious and seemingly upset the organisation when in the forest. What Ji did not mention was that both Weng and Tida were among the earliest groups to come out of the forest at the invitation of the amaat regime. Surachai did not surrender and was tricked to come out of the forest in the south of Thailand much later and spent the next 16 years in jail…His life story is tragic since childhood and to me it is full of folk heroism. Ji says he is a “chalatan” and seems to infer that he/Ji is the only pure “leftist” remaining. The rest are simply fake Socialists. There is nothing fake about Surachai – I spent time with him in January and I have nothing but admiration. But he doesn’t actually claim to be “left” – just someone sincere in seeking justice and fairness in Thai society.
What interests me now is how and from which source did Karim Raslan get his info about Abhisit ? Certainly not from ASTV because Sonthi’s print and electronic media are now blasting Abhisit day in day out. The only source possible for Karim is certainly from the two useless English newspapers, namely the Nation and Bkk Post, which have also been praising Mark on a regular basis.
Karim should have learned the situation in Thailand from his fellow columnist at The Star, Philip Golingai, who was earlier based in Bangkok and understood the ground better. Unfortunately, Philip already left and returned home:
There’s a very simple issue of cross-border criticism here.
I would note that the international conference of Lao studies is held in Thailand because (in general) Thai authorities permit criticisms of the Lao government. The Thai authorities (formal and informal) are not so permissive of criticism of their own government. Is that surprising? Hardly.
If you wanted to perpetuate the pattern of cross-border criticism, you could convene the conference of Thai studies in Cambodia, for the same reasons that they hold the conference of Lao studies in Thailand. I think that you might have a very lively forum for debate of Thai politics in Battambang, not so far beyond the border.
The nations of the decadent west are not exempt from this pattern.
First Nations (i.e., indigenous peoples) of western Canada (predominantly Cree) organized a series of colloquia in protest against their own government(s) in London, England (in 2009-2010, see, e.g., http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/aug/23/london-tar-sands-climate-protest). The British may have regarded the Cree with incomprehension, but, apparently, this was less prejudicial and repressive than conditions in Canada.
If you’d like to convene the next conference of Thai studies at a safe distance from the censors, I hope you’ll consider the advantages of the Echo Valley Conference Centre, in Cree and Saulteaux territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_San,_Saskatchewan).
Chula a “world class” university?……..has anyone from Chula ever spent any time at a real world class university like MIT?
Where not one single student is there because he is from a rich family, from a family with a “royal” connection, or from a family with a “name”…….
Where over 50 percent of the students (and/or their parents) were not even born in the U.S. but are cultural “newcomers/outsiders”, in residence at MIT purely on the basis of their hardwork, focus, amibition and intelligence……..
Where students are accepted from every country on earth regardless of their financial means, solely on the basis of their prior academic and other performance, ie., full and partial scholarships offered to any student who passes the rigorous “needs blind” admission process, with the necessary funds provided regardless of what country the student might be a citizen of, regardless of gender, skin tone, economic station, etc.
20 or 30 Nobel Prize laureates on the faculty, endless research labs, libraries, facilities, fiercely competitive courses, every student challenged and expected to perform, otherwise no graduation/degree.
Chula a “world class” university?…..only in the Thai world of “pretend”……
You asked:
“So are those from the left that supported the UDD beginning to break away from the UDD leadership. Jim says yes while Giles says no.”
Definitely not, as you cannot see “the left” as a cohesive group. This is not the 70’s anymore, and there will most likely not be a re-awakening of a large 70’s style communist/socialist revolutionary movement. There are people with a leftist background in all Red Shirt factions – in the UDD, in Daeng Siam, in the 24th of June Group, and also in Sombat’s Red Sunday (don’t forget that also in the PAD are many leftists as well).
On ground level there is much overlap – many, if not most protesters at Daeng Siam will also be present at UDD events. Yesterday, for example, many of the protesters at the Daeng Siam stage, i have seen at Wat Patum in the morning. I found that many protesters listen to the positions of all different stages, and form their own views then.
It is far too early to make any statements over Daeng Siam. So far, on average Daeng Siam and their affiliated groups such as the student group, draw on average several hundred to 2000 people at their rallies. Will the differences between them and the UDD widen, or will it come to some form of co-existence remains to be seen.
Many of the speeches at Daeng Siam stages are very emotional (Surachai is not the only speaker there), and stretch the limitations of what can legally be said here in Thailand. This is a position the UDD as a mass movement tries to avoid, given the sensitivity of the issues, and the possible counter reaction by the state.
I don’t think that describing the UDD’s position as simply looking towards elections is an accurate description. I believe, judging from many conversations i have had with many of its leaders, that the UDD aspires far more, but tries to avoid further violent confrontations as best as they can, and is not willing to have any more of their protesters killed.
Things are in a flux, and positions are redrawn according to recent developments. Much can, and will change within the Red Shirt movement and their different factions (as it has since they began 4 1/2 years ago).
Btw, I am a true product of the Malaysian education system. I have not change the learning style that I am thought during my high school days and have carried it on to my tiertiary education and have successfully graduated with good results. I am able to survive on my own and am independent in handling my own matters. Again, it is always up to you to believe it or not because I have nothing to lose.
And why I am still talking about all these here is purely due to one reason: it is more important to make people understand your message rather than to simply write them off. Everyone deserves a chance to be educated and no one should be deprived of that. 🙂
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Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
I, quite frankly, am appalled that you’re all harping on about parties that seem to be mirror images of one another. You can’t possibly believe that the opposition is going to bring anything but the exact same gameplan the government has been employing forever? Have you tried reading PKRs manifesto and what they stand for? I have. Doesn’t sound much different that what BNs main ideas seem to be. Whatever it is you THINK they’re saying, it seems they’re both still holding on to old values that have become quite outdated in this day and age. I believe it’s about time we started looking for other parties that stand for ideals and talk about lawmaking and policies instead of the age old ‘race’ rhetoric.
Life at Burma’s Defence Services Academy
Why grumble about the course you have attended? It’s your choice. No body imposed it on you. What about the training at Sandhurst and West Point? I don’t think there is any fundamental difference. The only difference is that graduates of the Burmese DSA are usurping the State Power of the people!
Where to now for the UDD?
Dickie Simpkins – 26
I actually agree with your observation. The UDD leaderships refuse to touch on the matter sort of indicated their unwilling to tackle one of the most important core problems of Thailand. This is certainly not a good sign for a movement that is suppose to revolve around social change and democratic revolution.
Abhisit at history’s juncture
LesAbbey, you seem intent on conflating legal and legitimate. Others – including myself – see a clear distinction where legitimacy conferred by a genuine popular mandate is concerned. You will no doubt roll out the argument that each MP was elected etc. If that were all that ever mattered, we would not be making comparisons between Gillard, Brown and Abhisit. Why not bring Mubarak into the equation? The Egyptian parliament was packed with 90% pro-Mubarak MPs – who for decades controlled who was allowed to stand against Mubarak in presidential elections. A classic self-perpetuating mechanism. All very legal. Legitimate?
“Where of course which party the prime minister comes from has nothing to do with his legitimacy.”
See what I mean? I doubt you do.
“By the way Steve if I were you I wouldn’t go too deeply into whether Newin was bought by the Democrats or not, as like any good tart it’s unlikely to be his first trick. We could look at the formation of the TRT if you want;-)”
You seem to be confusing me with someone who regards Thaksin’s majority-building machinations as perfectly respectable. Are you trying to imply that my critical view of the current government’s set-up is without precedent? That I would somehow be embarrassed to learn that Newin & Co have whored from the outset. That his track record with other “clients” in any way mitigates Abhisit getting into bed with him?
This questions thing of yours seems to be catching….. I might start to consider a response to your latest all-too-familiar batch after I see you start giving straight answers to the questions and requests for substantiation put to you.
——-
PS> A belated apology to Stuart (c6) who did raise the same-party factor from a “different” angle. My c17 effectively reiterates his point.
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
Btw, the news has just released something unfortunate to see in the Kerdau by-election in Malaysia.
“DAP is playing a supporting role to PAS in this campaign. Its ceramah will begin tonight and it is planning to bring in its superstar Lim Guan Eng to fire up the mood.
However, its local star, Triang assemblyman Leong Ngah Ngah, will be absent. Leong, who is the Pahang DAP chief, is leaving today for a family holiday in Chiangmai and will be back a day after polling.”
Where to now for the UDD?
My only wonder is
as an opposition movement against the government
as a liberal movement against military rule
as a justice movement against double-standards
why haven’t the mainstream red shirt leaders, financiers included, come out to speak in favor of the ‘freedoms’ that should be awarded to Daranee, Chiranuch, and Surachai while (for political reasons) completely distancing themselves from the held positions?
ie: in our ‘belief’ system, we fully support the freedom of said ppl because we believe in an open and multi-representative society.
Lack of such support only makes me suspicious that the very freedoms curbing speech and free thought are exactly the rules and laws under which they (the opposition phuea thai and mrT) want to use to recement their power and their power bases.
am i so wrong?
again, this is not in defense of the reprehensible movements of the current government, but this post is titled “where to now for the udd” and I really wonder if they will take the harder road (protect all free speech, even the ones they disagree with).
Malaysian Indians: A sad story
UMNO racist – the video of the arrest of HINDRAF coordinator. No reason given for his arrest.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
Is there anywhere a world class university? Certainly a university charging rather substantial fees has to market itself. World class university is such a marketing gimmick, and as other “trademarks” copied. The best marketing is through rankings, which don’t say much. To have a university which is “excellent” in all areas would be impossible to find, as there are always certain specifications.
I noticed another aspect related to world class universities that charge high fees. Several times I met someone who got a higher degree (MA, Ph.D.) from a reknown “world class” university using englisch as language of instruction. While talking with the person I was rather surprised about the language skills. Can it be that someone might prepare a Ph.D. but is more or less unable to have a conversation in the language the thesis was written in? It seems that for quite a few the degree exhibited in the “hall of frames” provides “symbolic power” unrelated to any scientific interest or competence.
Justice on Trial: Darunee Charnchoengsilpakul and the Thai Constitutional Court
There will definitely be 5 more arrests on LM charge.
Unfortunately, I have to use this post again to announce news of upcoming arrests on LM charge. This time the court, according to the DSI Director, has already granted arrest warrants for 5 more persons (yet unnamed). And more arrest warrants are on the ways. See breaking news here (sorry, in Thai):
http://breakingnews.nationchannel.com/read.php?newsid=497104
It now appears that the state is using a “two-prong” strategy: on the one hand, making some “concession” to the mainstream Red Shirt, the UDD, on the other hand, attacking minor Red Shirt tendencies deemed threatening to the monarchy. See further the discussion at this Jim Taylor post:
http://www.newmandala.org/2011/02/25/where-to-now-for-the-udd/
Where to now for the UDD?
Q “Ji says he is a “chalatan” and seems to infer that he/Ji is the only pure “leftist” remaining. The rest are simply fake Socialists. There is nothing fake about Surachai – I spent time with him in January and I have nothing but admiration. But he doesn’t actually claim to be “left” – just someone sincere in seeking justice and fairness in Thai society.” UQ
So, Ji is the only leftist left in the villages? Or rather, in exile. Can’t say I blame him. No one has really listened to him much in his entire career.
It doesn’t look like we will be seeing an electable named socialist party anytime soon. Presumably that is why we only ever hear talk about colors. In full knowledge that say 50% of the electorate would never be able to accept such a name – not even those who are prepared to wear red, yellow or farm out all their social responsibilities to despots and their amaat kith & kin. In such a pathetic situation, it surely can’t be too difficult for intellectuals to realize that we have all been going down a very long cul-de-sac for decades. Presumably in the hope that someone will have bulldozed a way through just before we reach the end. Some hope.
Where to now for the UDD?
So what were the tactical reasons for those left groups that joined the red-shirt UDD movement? Do/did they see a means of increasing their own organizations strength in numbers by joining the pro-Thaksin and Thakisn financed movement?
There is nothing new in this. Even in the UK groups ranging from the old Stalinists to post-war Trotskyists have argued about the tactic of ‘entryism’, mainly in relation to the British Labour Party. There are three ‘get-out’ points as far as I know. First expulsion – as when the the Militant Group was expelled from the British Labour Party in the 80s. Second would be when the group thought it had achieved as much increased membership as it possibly could. Third would be when it took over the entire movement it had entered, rather than exiting.
Is the third option achievable? Some accounts have that Surachai’s group has already been the victim of option one. How long is Giles in the red-shirt movement for? Does he see an exit point?
Myself, as I have made clear in the past, I see joining a Thaksin controlled movement as unprincipled. The UDD was never a Thai equivalent of a pro-democracy movement anywhere else in the world and neither is it a social democrat grouping.
Only the most cynical could see the problems associated with the return of Thaksin as an opportunity to carry forward their own group’s aspirations. Again I will remind people that in Iran the mullahs murderously turned very quickly on the Iranian left that helped them to power. I suspect there is a lesson in that.
Should the International Conference on Thai Studies be held in Thailand?
The dilemma facing Andrew and other scholars is really a reflection of a larger issue related to the ICTS: almost from its inception there has been an elephant, or rather several elephants, in the auditorium of the ICTS related to the question of whether it is a conference on studies of Thailand/Thai people or T’ai studies. To academic institutions in Thailand, probably owing to the need to gain funding approval for holding the ICTS, it has meant the former, with the focus strongly on Thailand and reflecting Thai interests. When held in international contexts, however, the focus has generally been been much broader, with greater room for content related to T’ai (and other) peoples in other countries, and reflecting the specific interests and politics of the host country. This was seen most dramatically in the case of the highly politicised Kunming ICTS, as Doug Miles has alluded to in his response, and is also reflected in the fact that the ICTS has yet to be held in Laos or Vietnam (the other elephants in the ICTS).
The problem with a focus on Thai interests is that, given the structure of the education system in Thailand, where universities lack the degree of autonomy enjoyed by similar institutions in Europe, the US and Australia, together with laws and policies, such as LM and censorship (including self-censorship) in many areas, that are “unsupportive” to rigorous academic discussion, whenever the ICTS is held in Thailand the content tends to be uncontroversial and strongly driven by conservative Thai agendas. Of course there are some exceptions – the session on the monarchy at the 2008 conference in Bangkok is one – but Andrew’s report that he has been advised that he would not be welcome at the 2011 ICTS suggests that this conference will be no different.
As with so many “difficult” questions in Thailand the answer seems to have been to ignore these elephants, persisting with the cumbersome “one in Thailand, one international” formula that resolves nothing and ensures debates such as the present one re-surface regularly. However, unless some serious attempt is made to review the objectives and guidelines of the ICTS, then we will have to resign ourselves to a situation where, when it is held in Thailand the ICTS will defer to the prevailing political climate, and where the most frank discussion of Thai institutions, politics and society takes place outside the country
Where to now for the UDD?
Ji #14 (Andrew Walker) I never said that the “deal” was a swap for Surachai’s scalp- though conjectually it may have appeared to many to be the case. UDD would not do that for reasons Ji states. This was part of the regime’s cunning/the arrest warrant was in the pocket of the police for months and they were waiting for the right time to exacerbate a division they could see was already becoming more evident in the movement…
The masses at bimonthly demonstrations were talking about different concerns to those talking on the stage. This is precisely the problem of disjuncture in UDD leadership.
Where to now for the UDD?
Perhaps Giles ought be a little more circumspect in his “analysis” of Surachai.
Surachai is undergoing what Giles himself is transparently unwilling to
experience. I suppose showing even a fraction of uncertainty in the purity of our ideals
is a sign of weakness but rather that than be damned a fool.
Where to now for the UDD?
LesAbbey, well, to me it all depends on how you define “left” and without trying to obfuscate it is complex and goes back to beginning of 1980s, CPT granted amnesty under Prem gaze; two sections emerged depending on their network alliances: CPT now aligned with red shirts/pro-electoral democracy and yellow shirts/ those former CPT now working with palace/old regime- and lobbied by military in helping them stage coups (I call this group members of the “thai falange”). And the schism is deep. The “left” Red and “left” Yellow divisions are reflected in the CPT leadership…As we know the core group disbanded in 2009 (officially at least) when its then Secretary General of the central committee Thong jamsii (a Marxist) quit. The new Secretary General Vinai Permpoonsap, is pro-yellow-shirt/falangist/ and probably aligned with the reactionary elements of the Labour Movement and has gained some influence.
Interestingly, PAD earlier included Weng and Tida on their ticket. They first became “politicised” in May 1992 and went on to for a pro-democracy group with Prateep Ungsongtham Hata. Weng was known by “comrades” as somewhat ambitious and seemingly upset the organisation when in the forest. What Ji did not mention was that both Weng and Tida were among the earliest groups to come out of the forest at the invitation of the amaat regime. Surachai did not surrender and was tricked to come out of the forest in the south of Thailand much later and spent the next 16 years in jail…His life story is tragic since childhood and to me it is full of folk heroism. Ji says he is a “chalatan” and seems to infer that he/Ji is the only pure “leftist” remaining. The rest are simply fake Socialists. There is nothing fake about Surachai – I spent time with him in January and I have nothing but admiration. But he doesn’t actually claim to be “left” – just someone sincere in seeking justice and fairness in Thai society.
Abhisit at history’s juncture
What interests me now is how and from which source did Karim Raslan get his info about Abhisit ? Certainly not from ASTV because Sonthi’s print and electronic media are now blasting Abhisit day in day out. The only source possible for Karim is certainly from the two useless English newspapers, namely the Nation and Bkk Post, which have also been praising Mark on a regular basis.
Karim should have learned the situation in Thailand from his fellow columnist at The Star, Philip Golingai, who was earlier based in Bangkok and understood the ground better. Unfortunately, Philip already left and returned home:
http://philipgolingai.blogspot.com/2008/12/planning-coup-heres-how.html
Should the International Conference on Thai Studies be held in Thailand?
There’s a very simple issue of cross-border criticism here.
I would note that the international conference of Lao studies is held in Thailand because (in general) Thai authorities permit criticisms of the Lao government. The Thai authorities (formal and informal) are not so permissive of criticism of their own government. Is that surprising? Hardly.
If you wanted to perpetuate the pattern of cross-border criticism, you could convene the conference of Thai studies in Cambodia, for the same reasons that they hold the conference of Lao studies in Thailand. I think that you might have a very lively forum for debate of Thai politics in Battambang, not so far beyond the border.
The nations of the decadent west are not exempt from this pattern.
First Nations (i.e., indigenous peoples) of western Canada (predominantly Cree) organized a series of colloquia in protest against their own government(s) in London, England (in 2009-2010, see, e.g., http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/aug/23/london-tar-sands-climate-protest). The British may have regarded the Cree with incomprehension, but, apparently, this was less prejudicial and repressive than conditions in Canada.
If you’d like to convene the next conference of Thai studies at a safe distance from the censors, I hope you’ll consider the advantages of the Echo Valley Conference Centre, in Cree and Saulteaux territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_San,_Saskatchewan).
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
Chula a “world class” university?……..has anyone from Chula ever spent any time at a real world class university like MIT?
Where not one single student is there because he is from a rich family, from a family with a “royal” connection, or from a family with a “name”…….
Where over 50 percent of the students (and/or their parents) were not even born in the U.S. but are cultural “newcomers/outsiders”, in residence at MIT purely on the basis of their hardwork, focus, amibition and intelligence……..
Where students are accepted from every country on earth regardless of their financial means, solely on the basis of their prior academic and other performance, ie., full and partial scholarships offered to any student who passes the rigorous “needs blind” admission process, with the necessary funds provided regardless of what country the student might be a citizen of, regardless of gender, skin tone, economic station, etc.
20 or 30 Nobel Prize laureates on the faculty, endless research labs, libraries, facilities, fiercely competitive courses, every student challenged and expected to perform, otherwise no graduation/degree.
Chula a “world class” university?…..only in the Thai world of “pretend”……
Where to now for the UDD?
“LesAbbey”:
You asked:
“So are those from the left that supported the UDD beginning to break away from the UDD leadership. Jim says yes while Giles says no.”
Definitely not, as you cannot see “the left” as a cohesive group. This is not the 70’s anymore, and there will most likely not be a re-awakening of a large 70’s style communist/socialist revolutionary movement. There are people with a leftist background in all Red Shirt factions – in the UDD, in Daeng Siam, in the 24th of June Group, and also in Sombat’s Red Sunday (don’t forget that also in the PAD are many leftists as well).
On ground level there is much overlap – many, if not most protesters at Daeng Siam will also be present at UDD events. Yesterday, for example, many of the protesters at the Daeng Siam stage, i have seen at Wat Patum in the morning. I found that many protesters listen to the positions of all different stages, and form their own views then.
It is far too early to make any statements over Daeng Siam. So far, on average Daeng Siam and their affiliated groups such as the student group, draw on average several hundred to 2000 people at their rallies. Will the differences between them and the UDD widen, or will it come to some form of co-existence remains to be seen.
Many of the speeches at Daeng Siam stages are very emotional (Surachai is not the only speaker there), and stretch the limitations of what can legally be said here in Thailand. This is a position the UDD as a mass movement tries to avoid, given the sensitivity of the issues, and the possible counter reaction by the state.
I don’t think that describing the UDD’s position as simply looking towards elections is an accurate description. I believe, judging from many conversations i have had with many of its leaders, that the UDD aspires far more, but tries to avoid further violent confrontations as best as they can, and is not willing to have any more of their protesters killed.
Things are in a flux, and positions are redrawn according to recent developments. Much can, and will change within the Red Shirt movement and their different factions (as it has since they began 4 1/2 years ago).
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
Btw, I am a true product of the Malaysian education system. I have not change the learning style that I am thought during my high school days and have carried it on to my tiertiary education and have successfully graduated with good results. I am able to survive on my own and am independent in handling my own matters. Again, it is always up to you to believe it or not because I have nothing to lose.
And why I am still talking about all these here is purely due to one reason: it is more important to make people understand your message rather than to simply write them off. Everyone deserves a chance to be educated and no one should be deprived of that. 🙂