It would seem that the King’s succession plan is to have his son follow him. It would also seem that his son and Mr. T would be able to communicate and cooperate without any major problems. So it would seem unlikely that the threat to the King’s succession plan would be coming from Mr. T and/or his followers.
The real threat to the King’s succession plan would instead be coming from those members of the Privy Council (there are at least three and possibly more in this group) who are opposed to the King’s son following the King. And it would appear that their succession plan would be to wait until after the King passes on, and then connive to somehow eliminate the son and appoint the “good” daughter in his place. With the actual power and control of the 38 billion USD fortune remaining with the mother, at least for the time being.
You’re darned right that the excessive motorcade-related traffic jams caused by minor (and not so minor) royals are an unnecessary and enduring irritant. They are a major pain in the butt. In addition, they occasionally result in real tragedies, such as preventing ambulances from getting critically ill patients to hospitals for emergency medical treatment. Did you know that the police are required to line up in the hot Sun an hour before the motorcades pass by? What a needless waste of human resources!
The lady doth protest too much. I don’t see the 50 million behind you, only behind ASSK. She is honest enough to say she will review the issue of the sanctions. Are you too, to fess up you advocate on behalf of the generals and invoke the citizenry’s name in vain?
Hla Oo,
What is your point exactly about opening up an old wound? Stirring up racial hatred and blood feuds? To what purpose? Just to attack all those other dead people who can no longer defend their name – an unfortunate legacy of Aung San and his extreme-leftwing comrades?
For those who can read Burmese, here is the CPB’s version of the tragic tit for tat events and their critical take on it:
LesAbbey: very boring this question as it has been dealt with several times, by government, in law and in these cables. Of course, palace coups and regicide are not unknown in Thailand, so a wild card is always there.
Yeah… I can’t imagine Yangon General Post Office letting this one through! It also seems strange that the e-book is more expensive than even the hard cover version, although admittedly there’s no postage costs on an e-book. And then there’s the problem that in Myanmar we don’t have credit cards or bank accounts…
Section 22: Subject to Section 23, succession to the throne shall be in accordance with the Palace Law on Succession, B.E. 2467.
Section 23: In the case where the Throne becomes vacant and the King has already appointed his heir to the Throne under the Palace Law on Succession, B.E. 2467, the Council of Ministers shall notify the president of the National Assembly. The president of the National Assembly shall convoke the National Assembly for acknowledgment thereof, and the president of the National Assembly shall invite such heir to ascend the Throne and proclaim such heir as King.
In the case where the Throne becomes vacant and the King has not appointed His heir* under paragraph one, the Privy Council shall submit the name of the successor to the Throne under Section 22 to the Council of Ministers for further submission to the National Assembly for approval. For this purpose, the name of a Princess may be submitted**. Upon the approval of the National Assembly, the president of the National Assembly shall invite such successor to ascend the Throne and proclaim such successor as King.
* On 28 December 1972 the King granted the title “Somdech Phra Boroma Orasadhiraj Chao Fah Maha Vajiralongkorn Sayam Makutrajakuman” – thus appointing him Crown Prince and heir to the throne.
** I’ve seen it suggested that this was brought into the 2007 constitution for the first time. Not true – the same wording is in the 1997 constitution.
I’ll choose my next words very carefully….. While I’m no lawyer, it would seem clear-cut that – unless his titular status were changed (according to the 1924 Palace Law, a prerogative belonging solely to the reigning monarch) or he became unavailable or a coup suspended the current Constitution – then the present Crown Prince is automatically the successor. If a coup happened, then all bets are off anyway – the leaders can replace whatever institutions they choose with a barracks kitchen cabinet concoction of their own. I
“… noting that something as simple as excessive motorcade-related traffic jams caused by minor royals was an unnecessary but enduring irritant. Personal Private Secretary Arsa Sarasin had raised this with the King about eight years ago, according to Siddhi, and the King had agreed, authorizing Arsa to talk to royal family members and to set up new rules limiting entourages and occasions when traffic would be stopped. Nothing had changed…”
It suggests both the intractable nature of the lower royals as well as the impotence of the king in family matters. If we believe Siddi, that is.
And yet Peter the article by Kukrit sticks in my mind even though it must have been published more than twenty years ago.
In very general term and about all monarchies, succession usually takes place after the demise of the previous monarch. I guess then who succeeds can be decided by other than that previous monarch.
An informant has kindly sent updates which I would like to share with NM readers; the recent WikiLeaks about Thailand, exciting as they seem, may not of course ever appear in the Thai media (unless they happen to “slip through” in part or whole unnoticed for a day or so and then removed when the overworked state censors notice): but at least these confirm internal anti-monarchy stories…
Director of DSI states the charges against Red Shirts who are still on the run will be changed from violating SOE to committing criminal acts according to the penal code (if SOE is lifted). Now it is also suggested (elsewhere) that certain staff within DSI are to be removed because their unethical tasks in the past few years have been achieved (*under the amaat regime people are removed when they have served a particular purpose for the elites)
Suthep [generously!] states that he is quite willing to testify on the Bangkok crackdown anywhere, even in the ICC (International Criminal Court; Cour Pénale Internationale; Bob Amsterdam will be happy to hear that!)
Jatuporn, who exposed admission from the five soldiers from Lopburi regiment that they were ordered to kill people inside Wat Pathum states that more information of a leaked document will be disclosed on Dec 23.
Japanese diplomat meets and discusses with Police Chief, Pol. Gen. Vichian (р╕Юр╕е.р╕Х.р╕н.р╕зр╕┤р╣Ар╕Кр╕╡р╕вр╕г р╕Юр╕Ир╕Щр╣Мр╣Вр╕Юр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╕ир╕гр╕╡) regarding the death of Japanese camera; Vichian tells the journalists after the meeting that the Japanese diplomat also brings and shows him the leaked document handed to the Japanese by Jatuporn…
After the govt is given the nickname “fried large noodles in black soy-sauce” (“р╣Ар╕кр╣Йр╕Щр╣Гр╕лр╕Нр╣Ир╕Ьр╕▒р╕Фр╕Лр╕╡р╕нр╕┤р╣Кр╕з”) by Kasetsart University students (seemingly it is a Thai tradition that the govt and each politician will be given nicknames at the end of each year), Suthep, always ready to defend the indefensible, responds that those students simply misunderstand about the govt being backed by the army! (the nickname implies that the govt is backed by powerful groups and the army)
On 16 December 2010, Royal Thai Police Lt. Samaporn of the Phaholyothin police station called Frank G Anderson to set up a date for Anderson to appear at the station to be accompanied to the prosecutor’s office. The visit is necessitated by Thai pol. Col. Wattanasak, friend of UK national Akbar khan who also filed criminal defamation charges against Anderson, who claims to have been insulted by remarks Anderson posted on his website http://www.thekoratpost.com
The meeting with the prosecutor is set for 13:00 hrs. on 22 December 2010.
According to the other prosecutor involved in the Akbar Khan case against Anderson, a decision will be made by 13 January 2011 whether to file formal charges against Anderson in court on Khan’s behalf.
Anderson has extended an open invitation to any supporters to be at the police station.
The cable says that “Anand suggested only the King would be in a position to change succession, and acknowledged a low likelihood of that happening.” So its not the Privy Council.
It’s so much fun to read the cables. Please we need a Bradley Manning 2.0 because i want to read the cables from April/May/Jun 2010 too
So these are the papers that came out of the 2009 ANU Myanmar/Burma update, right? Its a shame that they are not published on ANU E-press cost-free anymore… sort of limits the ability of people inside Myanmar to have access to the important research and opinions presented…
I smiled that someone got ThaiVisa Forum to send a breaking news with subject:
“AFP: Thailand’s Queen Sirikit accused of backing 2006 military coup”
to all its 40,000 members and then – like BKK Post – removed the article immediately.
Was this an accident or done on purpose?
And i think we can see a lot of empty walls in many homes pretty soon.
Smart vendors should now order a lot of Chulalongkorn pictures for the replacement.
This is all very interesting and the Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn Anthropology Centre is a useful resource.
However, after reading the original post, one cannot help wondering how much is left unsaid in the Festival.
For example we are told that “The fifth and final sub-theme of the festival focuses on New Siam’s ethnic and cultural diversity.” Why then is it even now the case that modern day Thailand refers to its people as e.g. a mixture of “Native Thais”, “Thais of Mon Descent”, “Muslim Thais” and “Thais of Chinese Descent.”
(This example taken from a display in Nonthaburi where each group of Thais is represented stereotypically, e.g. the Native Thai is a monk.)
We hear again about the abolition of slavery, but as Niels Mulder points out in Thai Images there was perhaps more than meets the eye. He talks (page 138) of the “commoners’ habit of fleeing from corvee obligations”, such as military service, which led to the formation of a standing army.
What else might local people have wanted to be exhibited? How easy was it for ordinary folk to have their voices heard?
A little truth lots of lies. Just like the SPDC spin!
“Resistance is futile says Hla Oo.
Engage with no strings attached says plan B.”
Please tell us :
Which part of my repeated “West careless useless policy” of 3 decades against Myanmar that “Hurt the citizenry more especially the most vulnerable one” fit that characterization?
Any statement you can find that I made here or anywhere.
As I have read Ko Hla Oo writing multiple times where exactly did he even imply “futility” of opposing SPDC beyond present approach ?
I can and will again quote all your inconsistencies, and falsehood here on these walls of New Mandala as well as on the wall of The Irrawaddy if permitted.
What ever your intent is definitely, without factual base, prove well not to be for the sake of the 50 million.
Well, I wonder how that is going to help the oposition to the BN Federal Govt. Judiciary, police etc still under BN’s control.
AND now, the BN owned Utusan Malaysia “newspaper” is insinuating that “Master Race Malay” (ketuanan Melayu) is Islamic. Any questioning of that concept is heretical.
I can only hope that I am as lucid as Prem and Siddhi when I am in my nineties!
Given their points of view, the privy councillors’ analyses seem pretty perceptive and straightforward to me. IMHO, there is little in there that could embarrass them — one could even imagine this leak helping their cause, by putting the contentious issues on the table.
The most telling revelation, after all, is this (semi-) admission by Anand: “After another pause, Anand added that someone really should raise the matter with the King, before adding with regret that there really was no one who could raise such a delicate topic…”
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Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
It would seem that the King’s succession plan is to have his son follow him. It would also seem that his son and Mr. T would be able to communicate and cooperate without any major problems. So it would seem unlikely that the threat to the King’s succession plan would be coming from Mr. T and/or his followers.
The real threat to the King’s succession plan would instead be coming from those members of the Privy Council (there are at least three and possibly more in this group) who are opposed to the King’s son following the King. And it would appear that their succession plan would be to wait until after the King passes on, and then connive to somehow eliminate the son and appoint the “good” daughter in his place. With the actual power and control of the 38 billion USD fortune remaining with the mother, at least for the time being.
Prelude to the bridge tragedy
[…] Mandala сЮШсЯТсЮУсЮ╢сЮАсЯЛтАЛ сЮСсЮ╢сЮЩтАЛсЮФсЯЙсЮ╗сЮУсЯТсЮШсЮ╢сЮУтАЛсЮРсЯТсЮДсЯГтАЛсЮШсЮ╗сЮУтАЛсЮРсЮ╢тАЛ […]
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
You’re darned right that the excessive motorcade-related traffic jams caused by minor (and not so minor) royals are an unnecessary and enduring irritant. They are a major pain in the butt. In addition, they occasionally result in real tragedies, such as preventing ambulances from getting critically ill patients to hospitals for emergency medical treatment. Did you know that the police are required to line up in the hot Sun an hour before the motorcades pass by? What a needless waste of human resources!
Gradual political change in Burma
plan B my dear,
The lady doth protest too much. I don’t see the 50 million behind you, only behind ASSK. She is honest enough to say she will review the issue of the sanctions. Are you too, to fess up you advocate on behalf of the generals and invoke the citizenry’s name in vain?
Hla Oo,
What is your point exactly about opening up an old wound? Stirring up racial hatred and blood feuds? To what purpose? Just to attack all those other dead people who can no longer defend their name – an unfortunate legacy of Aung San and his extreme-leftwing comrades?
For those who can read Burmese, here is the CPB’s version of the tragic tit for tat events and their critical take on it:
http://www.nguyinpyin.net/2006/PY.swf pp3-4
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
LesAbbey: very boring this question as it has been dealt with several times, by government, in law and in these cables. Of course, palace coups and regicide are not unknown in Thailand, so a wild card is always there.
New Book on Burma: “Ruling Myanmar”
Yeah… I can’t imagine Yangon General Post Office letting this one through! It also seems strange that the e-book is more expensive than even the hard cover version, although admittedly there’s no postage costs on an e-book. And then there’s the problem that in Myanmar we don’t have credit cards or bank accounts…
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
From the 2007 Constitution:
Section 22: Subject to Section 23, succession to the throne shall be in accordance with the Palace Law on Succession, B.E. 2467.
Section 23: In the case where the Throne becomes vacant and the King has already appointed his heir to the Throne under the Palace Law on Succession, B.E. 2467, the Council of Ministers shall notify the president of the National Assembly. The president of the National Assembly shall convoke the National Assembly for acknowledgment thereof, and the president of the National Assembly shall invite such heir to ascend the Throne and proclaim such heir as King.
In the case where the Throne becomes vacant and the King has not appointed His heir* under paragraph one, the Privy Council shall submit the name of the successor to the Throne under Section 22 to the Council of Ministers for further submission to the National Assembly for approval. For this purpose, the name of a Princess may be submitted**. Upon the approval of the National Assembly, the president of the National Assembly shall invite such successor to ascend the Throne and proclaim such successor as King.
http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html#C02
* On 28 December 1972 the King granted the title “Somdech Phra Boroma Orasadhiraj Chao Fah Maha Vajiralongkorn Sayam Makutrajakuman” – thus appointing him Crown Prince and heir to the throne.
** I’ve seen it suggested that this was brought into the 2007 constitution for the first time. Not true – the same wording is in the 1997 constitution.
I’ll choose my next words very carefully….. While I’m no lawyer, it would seem clear-cut that – unless his titular status were changed (according to the 1924 Palace Law, a prerogative belonging solely to the reigning monarch) or he became unavailable or a coup suspended the current Constitution – then the present Crown Prince is automatically the successor. If a coup happened, then all bets are off anyway – the leaders can replace whatever institutions they choose with a barracks kitchen cabinet concoction of their own. I
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
I like the part about traffic:
“… noting that something as simple as excessive motorcade-related traffic jams caused by minor royals was an unnecessary but enduring irritant. Personal Private Secretary Arsa Sarasin had raised this with the King about eight years ago, according to Siddhi, and the King had agreed, authorizing Arsa to talk to royal family members and to set up new rules limiting entourages and occasions when traffic would be stopped. Nothing had changed…”
It suggests both the intractable nature of the lower royals as well as the impotence of the king in family matters. If we believe Siddi, that is.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Peter – 6
So its not the Privy Council.
And yet Peter the article by Kukrit sticks in my mind even though it must have been published more than twenty years ago.
In very general term and about all monarchies, succession usually takes place after the demise of the previous monarch. I guess then who succeeds can be decided by other than that previous monarch.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
An informant has kindly sent updates which I would like to share with NM readers; the recent WikiLeaks about Thailand, exciting as they seem, may not of course ever appear in the Thai media (unless they happen to “slip through” in part or whole unnoticed for a day or so and then removed when the overworked state censors notice): but at least these confirm internal anti-monarchy stories…
Here are some Thai media headlines,
http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/134408
Director of DSI states the charges against Red Shirts who are still on the run will be changed from violating SOE to committing criminal acts according to the penal code (if SOE is lifted). Now it is also suggested (elsewhere) that certain staff within DSI are to be removed because their unethical tasks in the past few years have been achieved (*under the amaat regime people are removed when they have served a particular purpose for the elites)
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1292482474&grpid=00&catid=&subcatid=
Suthep [generously!] states that he is quite willing to testify on the Bangkok crackdown anywhere, even in the ICC (International Criminal Court; Cour Pénale Internationale; Bob Amsterdam will be happy to hear that!)
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1292417519&grpid=00&catid=&subcatid=
Jatuporn, who exposed admission from the five soldiers from Lopburi regiment that they were ordered to kill people inside Wat Pathum states that more information of a leaked document will be disclosed on Dec 23.
http://www.khaosod.co.th/view_news.php?newsid=TUROd01ERXdPREUyTVRJMU13PT0=§ionid=TURNd01RPT0=&day=TWpBeE1DMHhNaTB4Tmc9PQ==
Japanese diplomat meets and discusses with Police Chief, Pol. Gen. Vichian (р╕Юр╕е.р╕Х.р╕н.р╕зр╕┤р╣Ар╕Кр╕╡р╕вр╕г р╕Юр╕Ир╕Щр╣Мр╣Вр╕Юр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╕ир╕гр╕╡) regarding the death of Japanese camera; Vichian tells the journalists after the meeting that the Japanese diplomat also brings and shows him the leaked document handed to the Japanese by Jatuporn…
http://www.dailynews.co.th/newstartpage/index.cfm?page=content&categoryID=8&contentID=110285
After the govt is given the nickname “fried large noodles in black soy-sauce” (“р╣Ар╕кр╣Йр╕Щр╣Гр╕лр╕Нр╣Ир╕Ьр╕▒р╕Фр╕Лр╕╡р╕нр╕┤р╣Кр╕з”) by Kasetsart University students (seemingly it is a Thai tradition that the govt and each politician will be given nicknames at the end of each year), Suthep, always ready to defend the indefensible, responds that those students simply misunderstand about the govt being backed by the army! (the nickname implies that the govt is backed by powerful groups and the army)
Streckfuss on reform of the institution
16 December 2010
On 16 December 2010, Royal Thai Police Lt. Samaporn of the Phaholyothin police station called Frank G Anderson to set up a date for Anderson to appear at the station to be accompanied to the prosecutor’s office. The visit is necessitated by Thai pol. Col. Wattanasak, friend of UK national Akbar khan who also filed criminal defamation charges against Anderson, who claims to have been insulted by remarks Anderson posted on his website http://www.thekoratpost.com
The meeting with the prosecutor is set for 13:00 hrs. on 22 December 2010.
According to the other prosecutor involved in the Akbar Khan case against Anderson, a decision will be made by 13 January 2011 whether to file formal charges against Anderson in court on Khan’s behalf.
Anderson has extended an open invitation to any supporters to be at the police station.
When will Thailand go to the polls?
Spot on Tarrin #4 – well said !
And this is one of the most important of the many horns of the amaat’s excruciating dilemma.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
@LesAbbey:
The cable says that “Anand suggested only the King would be in a position to change succession, and acknowledged a low likelihood of that happening.” So its not the Privy Council.
It’s so much fun to read the cables. Please we need a Bradley Manning 2.0 because i want to read the cables from April/May/Jun 2010 too
New Book on Burma: “Ruling Myanmar”
So these are the papers that came out of the 2009 ANU Myanmar/Burma update, right? Its a shame that they are not published on ANU E-press cost-free anymore… sort of limits the ability of people inside Myanmar to have access to the important research and opinions presented…
Samak, the Queen and the Bangkok Post
I smiled that someone got ThaiVisa Forum to send a breaking news with subject:
“AFP: Thailand’s Queen Sirikit accused of backing 2006 military coup”
to all its 40,000 members and then – like BKK Post – removed the article immediately.
Was this an accident or done on purpose?
And i think we can see a lot of empty walls in many homes pretty soon.
Smart vendors should now order a lot of Chulalongkorn pictures for the replacement.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
[…] here to see the original: Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn Share and […]
New Siam through local eyes
This is all very interesting and the Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn Anthropology Centre is a useful resource.
However, after reading the original post, one cannot help wondering how much is left unsaid in the Festival.
For example we are told that “The fifth and final sub-theme of the festival focuses on New Siam’s ethnic and cultural diversity.” Why then is it even now the case that modern day Thailand refers to its people as e.g. a mixture of “Native Thais”, “Thais of Mon Descent”, “Muslim Thais” and “Thais of Chinese Descent.”
(This example taken from a display in Nonthaburi where each group of Thais is represented stereotypically, e.g. the Native Thai is a monk.)
We hear again about the abolition of slavery, but as Niels Mulder points out in Thai Images there was perhaps more than meets the eye. He talks (page 138) of the “commoners’ habit of fleeing from corvee obligations”, such as military service, which led to the formation of a standing army.
What else might local people have wanted to be exhibited? How easy was it for ordinary folk to have their voices heard?
Gradual political change in Burma
A little truth lots of lies. Just like the SPDC spin!
“Resistance is futile says Hla Oo.
Engage with no strings attached says plan B.”
Please tell us :
Which part of my repeated “West careless useless policy” of 3 decades against Myanmar that “Hurt the citizenry more especially the most vulnerable one” fit that characterization?
Any statement you can find that I made here or anywhere.
As I have read Ko Hla Oo writing multiple times where exactly did he even imply “futility” of opposing SPDC beyond present approach ?
I can and will again quote all your inconsistencies, and falsehood here on these walls of New Mandala as well as on the wall of The Irrawaddy if permitted.
What ever your intent is definitely, without factual base, prove well not to be for the sake of the 50 million.
Vital new documents on the formation of Malaysia
Well, I wonder how that is going to help the oposition to the BN Federal Govt. Judiciary, police etc still under BN’s control.
AND now, the BN owned Utusan Malaysia “newspaper” is insinuating that “Master Race Malay” (ketuanan Melayu) is Islamic. Any questioning of that concept is heretical.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
I can only hope that I am as lucid as Prem and Siddhi when I am in my nineties!
Given their points of view, the privy councillors’ analyses seem pretty perceptive and straightforward to me. IMHO, there is little in there that could embarrass them — one could even imagine this leak helping their cause, by putting the contentious issues on the table.
The most telling revelation, after all, is this (semi-) admission by Anand: “After another pause, Anand added that someone really should raise the matter with the King, before adding with regret that there really was no one who could raise such a delicate topic…”