@ John Frances Lee #8
“Wikileaks; sources, like Bradley Manning, are thrown under the bus while wikileaks selectively market this kind of trash to the, no doubt, highest bidder…”
I want to correct the false information that WikiLeaks betrayed Pfc. Bradley Manning. It was an American new reporter who betrayed professional ethics and ratted him out. Furthermore, Manning needs everyone’s financial help for mounting his legal defense, because he is facing more than 50 years in prison: http://www.BradleyManning.org
John Dolves :
re. “until [those] who control Thailand [are] sure that the Democrat will win the election by a large margin.”
The strategy does n’t seem to be for the unrealistic goal of “the Democrats to … . win the election by a large margin”, as for the Democrats to win with large enough margins by their coalition partners. Note especially the wins by Bhumjaithai in (Khmer Isaarn) and Chart Pattana in the recent four by-elections.
I’m still expecting an election result where Lao Isaarn votes massively against the rest of “Thailand” – except with some support from upper Lanna.
I still think there won’t be any election in the near future until [those] who control Thailand [are] sure that the Democrat will win the election by a large margin. But they still don’t know how the democrat can win the next election. So, they will use the same dirty tactic by trying to dissolve the opposition party. Their last option will also be staging a coup d’etat and make Thailand a military state. How long this situation can last, nobody knows? But most Thais believe that the last chapter or the conclusion will come to an end sooner than anyone can imagine.
More from Wikileaks. The Guardian newspaper of the UK says it will release more Thai related cables this week including those concerning the link between the palace and the 2006 coup plotters.
As for the monk – I was in Bangkok at that time, and there were persistent, and widespread rumours of this – but no hard evidence.
Chris I believed at the time that the 2009 bodies were not real and that it was a hoax being used for propaganda purposes by the UDD. I haven’t found any reason to change my mind, but if the Wikileaks cables throw new light on the subject I’m willing to be convinced.
Maybe this is the attitude we should all take with Wikileaks; to have an open mind even if heroes turn out to have feet of clay.
Back to the 2009 bodies, there were two private security men from Bangkapi whose killings may have been connected with anti-red shirt activity but seem more to do with local gangsterism and of course some (two?) anti-red shirt Muslims killed by red shirts.
Dear Ko Hla Oo, You seem to be writing on the side of the junta. Do you think the oppressed people and genuine opposition will remain silent with folded arms to let the junta do as they like? None sense!
As a physician psychologist MBBS ,MD, PhD, FRCSP or whatever you wish yourself to be:
Please honor everyone here @ New Mandala here with which my any statements that I made on the wall of New Mandala that will constitute ‘De-Lu-Tion-NAL’.
Furthermore has “Toady looking” been a characteristic to be abhorred in your book of Criminal-Psychology ?
I am afraid most of 50 million people in Myanmar do not have the chance to experience the magic of Disney Characters yet.
May be about time you visit Myanmar and find the true Burmese villains on the walls of any Pagodas.
Hint: Usually someone standing with a Foreign looking character. Not necessarily Toady mind you.
Indonesia fortunately NEVER enjoy the benefit of such disdain treatment by the West that undeserving Myanmar has endured.
As Kim, Castro and such are forever reminder that the west will conveniently like to deny, so will Myanmar become one of the shame of west written historical anecdote.
Loss among these farces are the unforgivable sufferings of the citizenry induced that will never be mentioned.
Ongoing as in the N. Korean, Cuban and Myanmar.
Les Abbey :
I agree with everything you say @ post 18, not least that NM – if it has the resources – should take up your suggestion to make searching somewhat easier.
As for the monk – I was in Bangkok at that time, and there were persistent, and widespread rumours of this – but no hard evidence.
I just wondered if you – or anyone else – had any ?
So difficult to sift fact from fiction in Thailand !!
Does Kim of DPRK need the support of 24 mill N. Korean to be Kim?
Does Castro need the support of 11 million Cuban to scream “Yankee muerte” to exist since ’62?
Charles F
The question is:
“How much of the policy of the west contributed to the sufferings BEYOND which you can rightfully claimed, are solely caused by SPDC?”
The dead due to the COMPOUNDED DEPRIVATION by SPDC and The West useless careless policy, of health care and Education on Myanmar.
That otherwise will have prevented some 9 year old from unnecessarily dying from malaria at Mae Tho clinics.
A 2 year old from becoming the statistic of Charles F.’s “1o% of Myanmar Children never see their 5th birthday”?
Worst the HIV sufferers that can be prevented that Daw Aung San Suu Kyi is using to be relevant again!
As the creator and the cause of the rise of Nazism is THE bygone European/Westerners’ stupidity, in punishing Germany in the most ridiculous ways.
So is the entity of SPDC as we know it today due to ridiculously careless useless ways that THE west treated Myanmar.
plan B,
You’re completely delusional if you truly believe that fifty million people support the SPDC.
Just for starters, do you honestly think that the millions of hill tribe people hold the SPDC near and dear to their hearts? The various minorities account for perhaps twenty million souls, which translates into forty percent of the population.
Even Than Shwe’s fellow Burmans can’t stand the sight of him. And his toady generals come in a very close second.
Burma today is a country run by gangsters. All the talk about nationalism, three kings, loyalty to country is just that – talk. They’re gangsters. Killers, thieves, rapists, sociopaths.
Continue to defend them if you want, but you’re on the wrong side of history.
#17 raises an interesting point. How does the Thai royal family fund itself? A great story for an investigative Thai media organisation. If one existed…
We know that CPB is one source of revenue. Donations to royal projects are another. The Privy Purse is fairly modest. Is there a line in the RTG budget for royal expenses?
The claim for Thaksin/CP is that he paid off gambling debts. It’s hard to solicit donations for such a cause, except from politicians/businessmen seeking future favours. So it’s not surprising that CP turned to Thaksin. Did CP keep up his end of the bargain? Perhaps it’s too soon to say.
Chris, I have never had much joy searching old posts in New Mandala and I haven’t found an easy way of looking in the archives. If you have some free time you could click back to the 2009 red shirt protest and you will find mention of the monk’s eye-witness account of bodies being loaded into vans or ambulances.
Myself, being very suspicious of claims of bodies with no mobile phone pictures at least, was quite unpopular at the time for suggesting that maybe they didn’t exist, but then again what’s new in that? Maybe the US embassy knows better.
Nich and Andrew would it be hard to put some indexing, possibly by year and month, in the right side column?
Another question surrounds future relations between the highest-ranking officers of the Tatmadaw – the rising generation of generals Myint Aung, Ko Ko, Min Aung Hlaing and Kyaw Swe, all in their 50s – and the old guard: ex-generals Thein Sein, Thura Shwe Mann, (Thiha Thura) Tin Maung Myint Oo and Maung Oo have all retired (willingly or not) to take part in the new parliamentary game, and have all been elected as representatives.
Impressive article! Renaud Egreteau can rightfully claim he is a Burma Expert. Only one crucial thing he doesn’t seem to know is the emergence or existence of a tight-knit group of army officers and ex-army officers forming the inner circle of Than Shwe.
They are pure army blood as their fathers also were army officers and they belong to a group called Hla Thaung Graduates. Than shwe trusts them with his own life and most of these officers also served as junior officers under Than Shwe when he was the divisional CO of LID 88.
These officers are the young graduates of Cadet Battalion called Aungsan Thuria Hla Thaung (now abolished) in Mingaladon cantonment near Rangoon Airport. The battalion was formed in late 1950s to train and educate the miscreant sons of army officers.
Once they finished matriculation (Year 10) they were sent straight to DSA (Defense Services Academy). The stupid ones who couldn’t pass year 10 did join the army as privates and almost all of them were sent to OTS (Officer Training School) once they gained a stripe or two on the battlefields.
Abolished in mid 1970s the cadet battalion had about 600 graduates and almost half of them were killed in actions during the late 1970s and early 1980s and the 300 odd officers survived are now controlling the army and government.
Information Minster Kyaw San and PSB (Public Services Board) Chairman Kyaw Thu (son of late President Dr. Maung Maung) are the well-known public faces of that group which is basically chaired by Tin Aung Myint Oo.
The rising star Lt General Min Aung Hlaing (only 52 years old) is their leading uniformed-man in the army now and with Than Shwe’s encouragement Kyaw San has been heavily promoting Min Aung Hlaing in his media outlets.
Since they grew up together as young boy cadets and later as the officer cadets they have had a special bond among them. Because of their unique position in Burmese army their actions will decide the near future of Burma.
As a powerful group they will never let go the complete control of Burma and they will gradually transform Burma into a Indonesia-style democracy by transforming one or two of them into the likes of President General Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
I don’t understand why the DSI doesn’t have the cojones to conclude that all 6 of the 6 people killed at the temple were killed by the Thai military. After all, they were all killed by the same high velocity bullets. Isn’t this indisputable evidence that the murders were all perpetrated by the same agents? It appears they are relying upon angle of impact of the bullets from the forensics, not the large number of eyewitnesses who all point the finger at the soldiers in camouflage on the skytrain tracks as the shooters. What additional standard of proof do they need? The mere fact that they won’t release the forensics suggests they are hiding the evidence that would make the conclusions clearcut.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
@ John Frances Lee #8
“Wikileaks; sources, like Bradley Manning, are thrown under the bus while wikileaks selectively market this kind of trash to the, no doubt, highest bidder…”
I want to correct the false information that WikiLeaks betrayed Pfc. Bradley Manning. It was an American new reporter who betrayed professional ethics and ratted him out. Furthermore, Manning needs everyone’s financial help for mounting his legal defense, because he is facing more than 50 years in prison: http://www.BradleyManning.org
When will Thailand go to the polls?
John Dolves :
re. “until [those] who control Thailand [are] sure that the Democrat will win the election by a large margin.”
The strategy does n’t seem to be for the unrealistic goal of “the Democrats to … . win the election by a large margin”, as for the Democrats to win with large enough margins by their coalition partners. Note especially the wins by Bhumjaithai in (Khmer Isaarn) and Chart Pattana in the recent four by-elections.
I’m still expecting an election result where Lao Isaarn votes massively against the rest of “Thailand” – except with some support from upper Lanna.
When will Thailand go to the polls?
I still think there won’t be any election in the near future until [those] who control Thailand [are] sure that the Democrat will win the election by a large margin. But they still don’t know how the democrat can win the next election. So, they will use the same dirty tactic by trying to dissolve the opposition party. Their last option will also be staging a coup d’etat and make Thailand a military state. How long this situation can last, nobody knows? But most Thais believe that the last chapter or the conclusion will come to an end sooner than anyone can imagine.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
More from Wikileaks. The Guardian newspaper of the UK says it will release more Thai related cables this week including those concerning the link between the palace and the 2006 coup plotters.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Chris Beale – 22
As for the monk – I was in Bangkok at that time, and there were persistent, and widespread rumours of this – but no hard evidence.
Chris I believed at the time that the 2009 bodies were not real and that it was a hoax being used for propaganda purposes by the UDD. I haven’t found any reason to change my mind, but if the Wikileaks cables throw new light on the subject I’m willing to be convinced.
Maybe this is the attitude we should all take with Wikileaks; to have an open mind even if heroes turn out to have feet of clay.
Back to the 2009 bodies, there were two private security men from Bangkapi whose killings may have been connected with anti-red shirt activity but seem more to do with local gangsterism and of course some (two?) anti-red shirt Muslims killed by red shirts.
Gradual political change in Burma
Dear Ko Hla Oo, You seem to be writing on the side of the junta. Do you think the oppressed people and genuine opposition will remain silent with folded arms to let the junta do as they like? None sense!
Surveillance in Burma
Charle F.
As a physician psychologist MBBS ,MD, PhD, FRCSP or whatever you wish yourself to be:
Please honor everyone here @ New Mandala here with which my any statements that I made on the wall of New Mandala that will constitute ‘De-Lu-Tion-NAL’.
Furthermore has “Toady looking” been a characteristic to be abhorred in your book of Criminal-Psychology ?
I am afraid most of 50 million people in Myanmar do not have the chance to experience the magic of Disney Characters yet.
May be about time you visit Myanmar and find the true Burmese villains on the walls of any Pagodas.
Hint: Usually someone standing with a Foreign looking character. Not necessarily Toady mind you.
Gradual political change in Burma
Ko Hla Oo
I am not as optimistic as you are.
Indonesia fortunately NEVER enjoy the benefit of such disdain treatment by the West that undeserving Myanmar has endured.
As Kim, Castro and such are forever reminder that the west will conveniently like to deny, so will Myanmar become one of the shame of west written historical anecdote.
Loss among these farces are the unforgivable sufferings of the citizenry induced that will never be mentioned.
Ongoing as in the N. Korean, Cuban and Myanmar.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Les Abbey :
I agree with everything you say @ post 18, not least that NM – if it has the resources – should take up your suggestion to make searching somewhat easier.
As for the monk – I was in Bangkok at that time, and there were persistent, and widespread rumours of this – but no hard evidence.
I just wondered if you – or anyone else – had any ?
So difficult to sift fact from fiction in Thailand !!
Surveillance in Burma
“Even Than Shwe’s fellow Burmans can’t stand the sight of him. And his toady generals come in a very close second.”
Will a better looking SPDC change your mind then?
I truly can not claim my Burmese parents looking better than your xxxx parents.
Does that make your sentiments here more valid?
“Burmans” тЙа Charles F.’s opinion, mind you.
Surveillance in Burma
Does Kim of DPRK need the support of 24 mill N. Korean to be Kim?
Does Castro need the support of 11 million Cuban to scream “Yankee muerte” to exist since ’62?
Charles F
The question is:
“How much of the policy of the west contributed to the sufferings BEYOND which you can rightfully claimed, are solely caused by SPDC?”
The dead due to the COMPOUNDED DEPRIVATION by SPDC and The West useless careless policy, of health care and Education on Myanmar.
That otherwise will have prevented some 9 year old from unnecessarily dying from malaria at Mae Tho clinics.
A 2 year old from becoming the statistic of Charles F.’s “1o% of Myanmar Children never see their 5th birthday”?
Worst the HIV sufferers that can be prevented that Daw Aung San Suu Kyi is using to be relevant again!
Surveillance in Burma
Hmm…The enviable parody of Lord Law Law!
As always a twisted way of admitting that:
As the creator and the cause of the rise of Nazism is THE bygone European/Westerners’ stupidity, in punishing Germany in the most ridiculous ways.
So is the entity of SPDC as we know it today due to ridiculously careless useless ways that THE west treated Myanmar.
Ko Moe Aung
Thanks but no thanks.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Reporter,
Bangkok Pundit has done some good pieces on the royal budget, starting here you can follow links:
http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/2008/03/expenditure.html
Here’s one on the royal airplanes.
http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/2009/09/sufficiency-planes-part-deux.html
Modest isn’t the word that springs to mind.
Surveillance in Burma
plan B,
You’re completely delusional if you truly believe that fifty million people support the SPDC.
Just for starters, do you honestly think that the millions of hill tribe people hold the SPDC near and dear to their hearts? The various minorities account for perhaps twenty million souls, which translates into forty percent of the population.
Even Than Shwe’s fellow Burmans can’t stand the sight of him. And his toady generals come in a very close second.
Burma today is a country run by gangsters. All the talk about nationalism, three kings, loyalty to country is just that – talk. They’re gangsters. Killers, thieves, rapists, sociopaths.
Continue to defend them if you want, but you’re on the wrong side of history.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
#17 raises an interesting point. How does the Thai royal family fund itself? A great story for an investigative Thai media organisation. If one existed…
We know that CPB is one source of revenue. Donations to royal projects are another. The Privy Purse is fairly modest. Is there a line in the RTG budget for royal expenses?
The claim for Thaksin/CP is that he paid off gambling debts. It’s hard to solicit donations for such a cause, except from politicians/businessmen seeking future favours. So it’s not surprising that CP turned to Thaksin. Did CP keep up his end of the bargain? Perhaps it’s too soon to say.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
“The slow drip of information will, hopefully, be excruciating for some and have a far more profound effect”
Thanks Laoguy – makes the waiting easier to handle 🙂
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Chris Beale – 15
Which monk ? Could you cite a source please ?
Chris, I have never had much joy searching old posts in New Mandala and I haven’t found an easy way of looking in the archives. If you have some free time you could click back to the 2009 red shirt protest and you will find mention of the monk’s eye-witness account of bodies being loaded into vans or ambulances.
Myself, being very suspicious of claims of bodies with no mobile phone pictures at least, was quite unpopular at the time for suggesting that maybe they didn’t exist, but then again what’s new in that? Maybe the US embassy knows better.
Nich and Andrew would it be hard to put some indexing, possibly by year and month, in the right side column?
Gradual political change in Burma
Another question surrounds future relations between the highest-ranking officers of the Tatmadaw – the rising generation of generals Myint Aung, Ko Ko, Min Aung Hlaing and Kyaw Swe, all in their 50s – and the old guard: ex-generals Thein Sein, Thura Shwe Mann, (Thiha Thura) Tin Maung Myint Oo and Maung Oo have all retired (willingly or not) to take part in the new parliamentary game, and have all been elected as representatives.
Impressive article! Renaud Egreteau can rightfully claim he is a Burma Expert. Only one crucial thing he doesn’t seem to know is the emergence or existence of a tight-knit group of army officers and ex-army officers forming the inner circle of Than Shwe.
They are pure army blood as their fathers also were army officers and they belong to a group called Hla Thaung Graduates. Than shwe trusts them with his own life and most of these officers also served as junior officers under Than Shwe when he was the divisional CO of LID 88.
These officers are the young graduates of Cadet Battalion called Aungsan Thuria Hla Thaung (now abolished) in Mingaladon cantonment near Rangoon Airport. The battalion was formed in late 1950s to train and educate the miscreant sons of army officers.
Once they finished matriculation (Year 10) they were sent straight to DSA (Defense Services Academy). The stupid ones who couldn’t pass year 10 did join the army as privates and almost all of them were sent to OTS (Officer Training School) once they gained a stripe or two on the battlefields.
Abolished in mid 1970s the cadet battalion had about 600 graduates and almost half of them were killed in actions during the late 1970s and early 1980s and the 300 odd officers survived are now controlling the army and government.
Information Minster Kyaw San and PSB (Public Services Board) Chairman Kyaw Thu (son of late President Dr. Maung Maung) are the well-known public faces of that group which is basically chaired by Tin Aung Myint Oo.
The rising star Lt General Min Aung Hlaing (only 52 years old) is their leading uniformed-man in the army now and with Than Shwe’s encouragement Kyaw San has been heavily promoting Min Aung Hlaing in his media outlets.
Since they grew up together as young boy cadets and later as the officer cadets they have had a special bond among them. Because of their unique position in Burmese army their actions will decide the near future of Burma.
As a powerful group they will never let go the complete control of Burma and they will gradually transform Burma into a Indonesia-style democracy by transforming one or two of them into the likes of President General Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
Reuters on red shirt deaths
I don’t understand why the DSI doesn’t have the cojones to conclude that all 6 of the 6 people killed at the temple were killed by the Thai military. After all, they were all killed by the same high velocity bullets. Isn’t this indisputable evidence that the murders were all perpetrated by the same agents? It appears they are relying upon angle of impact of the bullets from the forensics, not the large number of eyewitnesses who all point the finger at the soldiers in camouflage on the skytrain tracks as the shooters. What additional standard of proof do they need? The mere fact that they won’t release the forensics suggests they are hiding the evidence that would make the conclusions clearcut.
Gradual political change in Burma
Nich
A timely quote. Beat me to it, again!
Thanks