Still bemuses me seeing all and sundry getting agitated at the corruption in Thailand, the only thing politicians here are interested in is increasing their wealth. I don’t think they can be ordered by their greed, it is purely that some don’t even bother to be subtle about it.
Then we have the banksters and their paid off politicians engaging in outright fraud, deceit, theft and lying in the US (and elsewhere, Aussie State and Local governmental corruption also comes to mind), destroying economies and the middle classes, Thailand isn’t even in the same league as those despots.
It seems that many westerners expatriated from failing and technically bankrupt socialist nirvanas like to somehow feel morally superior pretending that rampant corruption doesn’t exist in their countries, whereas it is completely out off control, sadly unrecognized by a dumbed down population believing what they see on TV.
As to sufficiency, suspect it’s real message of moderation has been re-interpreted by the Elite as moderation for the masses rather than themselves of course. In other words keep telling the poor they should be happy with their lot in life…nice.
I take issue with Zoe Daniels’s assertion that “little has changed politically in Burma since your detention”.
I know most of the world’s media don’t want to recognise the fact last week’s election took place, but for most Myanmar people a significant change has just occurred, for better or worse.
As Marie Lall wrote in the BBC on Saturday:
What is fast becoming Burma’s greatest fault line is the rift between the anti-regime groups inside and those outside of the country.
They want the same thing but cannot reconcile their positions.
Today this is the biggest challenge for society in Burma – the need for a convergence between the two opposition groups.
“And yet the moment the comparison is made between the Burmese generals and the Thai generals commanding the 2006 coup, the differences so far outweigh the similarities that it no longer makes sense. Again it just becomes propaganda.” (#16)
I may shared a vision with the website owner and of the author, I want to see Cambodian, Thai, Vietnamese, Laos and others, live and prosper together, not prosper at the price of another.
But you know, again this great article just circulate around the scholar, yet not the mass. And given, it translates to local newspaper, how will the busy-to-make-enough-for-living will read this long article? How sure the translator/editor put the initial sense to be enlightened by this article?
Suwhanabhumi-”the fabled golden land”; for the few, it seems- has a very porous border.1
And yet the moment the comparison is made between the Burmese generals and the Thai generals commanding the 2006 coup, the differences so far outweigh the similarities that it no longer makes sense. Again it just becomes propaganda. There are good criticisms UDD supporters could make of Sonthi and Surayud but they show immaturity and lack of effort in those they do make.
There was an article on Burma in the BKK Post yesterday(writer Phil Thornton).
The subline says: “Burma, the fabled golden land of yesterday, is time-locked, pillaged and run down by a military regime obsessed with keeping control of its wealth, land and people.”
Suwhanabhumi-“the fabled golden land”; for the few, it seems- has a very porous border.
Time she broke the vicious circle of defiance and defeat. Confrontation if unavoidable needs to be backed up by force, and whoever can muster it will most likely end up the winner if neither party will back down. Her people are ready and willing more than ever to follow her all the way.
The generals, though always fully prepared for it, do not want confrontation, only capitulation or collaboration. Repeated calls for genuine dialogue have only fallen on deaf ears so far. Chance would be a fine thing even to be able to contemplate and discuss some kind of compromise with the regime. That’s evidently not the kind of politics they do.
Time she reclaimed the Tatmadaw for the people. She must try and level the playing field, so People Power has a fighting chance of winning. No need to split the army, just win them over en masse. If she can’t do it, no one can. Definitely worth trying when it comes to the crunch, and it requires political work beforehand which the NLD is still best placed to carry out. Not only did they see no choice but to free her as they ran out of excuses, interestingly they have not persecuted the NLD for carrying on with political agitation let alone outlaw the oraganisation. They must make hay while the sun shines. It’s not likely to last.
I’m sure it’s not martyrdom she seeks as Justin Wintle has suggested. To leave their mark and make a name in history books as their mission in life is what career politicians like Tony Blair do.
She wants results for her people, but if she remains hamstrung by her total commitment to non-violence, she is looking at a fate like the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala for a half century and counting, or worse. They wouldn’t mind seeing her lobbying and rubbing shoulders with world leaders and statesmen, but they might get desperate enough to make another attempt on her life because she will stay and continue to lead her people in their ‘second struggle for independence’ .
She remains the only person, like her father before her, who can unite all the myriad peoples of Burma and achieve genuine national reconciliation, but it looks increasingly like in the end this will actually need the overthrow of the ‘elected’ military regime as a crucial step. And she needs to be more like her father in having no qualms about the people’s right to armed resistance.
She cannot be sidelined by the generals but come the fire next time she can be left by the wayside if she fails to lead the people to victory.
Khun Vichai,
This is not the Thaksin bashing page – plenty of room elsewhere!
Mr Lee,
Of course “The Lady” has international status, an honourable CV and charisma, why begrudge this? The Burmese people you root for certainly don’t. If she is their last, best hope on the international stage – that’s where their needs are best served. If you are cynical of the peace movement approach then you’ll have to await the next insurrection and bloody crack down to sate your appetite.
I see today she is prepared for open discussions with her elders and betters. Don’t see them going there unless it’s for a new era photo-op but lets see first eh? There may be bigger wheels in motion we are unaware of…
I don’t think they are desperate enough to martyr her at the moment with their shiny new democratic suits on – and such fears have not and would not stop her following her own chosen path anyway.
I understand that her youngest son Kim, who hasn’t seen her for 10 years, has been waiting in Bangkok for a Burma visa for almost a week now. Will he get one? We don’t know yet.
Daw Suu has been invited to attend the Nobel laureates’ congress, she has a grandchild overseas she’s never seen, people are suggesting she meet people overseas. Will she go? I guess she still fears that if she leaves the country she may be barred from going back. That was the case when her husband was dying.
She has been put through insufferable pain by the low-life junta and her grace though it all is a shining example to all human beings. We just don’t know what they will do next, Than Shwe is an uncaring, unpredictable paranoiac and we can only hope for the best.
Vichai N @13: How about the government’s daily repression of free expression and other human rights, which threaten no one while Abhisit claims the government is only suppressing acts that incite violence?
While the junta says it has imposed no restrictions on her movements, Suu Kyi will still have to watch her step, said Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.
“She has to be careful not to cross the line of the military regime,” he said.
“Nobody can read the regime’s mind, but I am sure there is a line. She is not allowed to do whatever she would like to do. She has to be careful not to jeopardise her freedom, otherwise she will end up in house arrest again.”
Burma’s new political landscape also means that Suu Kyi might have to “compromise a little bit and work with the new government,” added Pavin.
That’s about the same line he takes with Thai democrats and the Thai military, isn’t it?
They just have to “compromise a little bit and work with the new government”?
Yes, Sri – It is a statement in the tradition of a utopian normative democracy theory but also based on practical ideas.
In the economic literature (the field that I am in) – its about incentives. Groups that have more to loose or more to gain – tend to spend more resources to achieve these objectives (e.g. Abishit in Thailand and UMNO in Malaysia).
Citizens – as they are dispersed and thus the benefits & costs too- tend to have limited incentive to take action (individually or collectively).
However, if someone can demonstrate the costs and the benefits (notice that this video provides numerous examples of the deterioration of the quality of life (cost) & not on utopian ideals), then the citizens can be galvanised.
Pragmatic ideas, I believe, is often motivated by people with utopian ideals .
Yes, wonderful news…up to a point. And very moving. But, how free is she, and for how long?
Watching the coverage on the Beeb last night, I was struck by a statement Sue Lloyd – Roberts made: the Burmese military get 40% of total budget, while Education gets 1%. I’m wondering how this compares with Thailand. Anyone know?
“The opposition icon of Burma (Aung San Suu Kyi) was honoured (with a Nobel laureate honors) in 1991 for her non- violent struggle for democracy and human rights, but was unable to travel to Scandinavia because she was under house arrest. She also feared she would not be allowed to return to Burma, and asked her husband, who has since died, to accept the prize on her behalf.”
Aung San Suu Kyi feared she would NOT be allowed to return to Burma, while Thailand’s self-proclaimed hero of Thai democracy, feared being forcibly repatriated back to Thailand. The contrast of heroes is astounding!
Pigs may fly! Abhiset might listen. Thaksin might practice what he spins. Singapore might become more democratic. Malaysia might stop putting all its blame on its minorities. Hun Sen might learn to live within his own means instead of robbing it from the rest of the population. New Mandala might figure that it earnest intellectuallism is a total waste of effort in a region that continues to prefer tinpot dictators, blowhards and out-&-out crooks. Like it or not, this region is stuck with silly old fools in ridiculous uniforms for decades to come. And the world and this forum really doesn’t have the slightest idea how to deal with such riff-raff.
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Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
Still bemuses me seeing all and sundry getting agitated at the corruption in Thailand, the only thing politicians here are interested in is increasing their wealth. I don’t think they can be ordered by their greed, it is purely that some don’t even bother to be subtle about it.
Then we have the banksters and their paid off politicians engaging in outright fraud, deceit, theft and lying in the US (and elsewhere, Aussie State and Local governmental corruption also comes to mind), destroying economies and the middle classes, Thailand isn’t even in the same league as those despots.
It seems that many westerners expatriated from failing and technically bankrupt socialist nirvanas like to somehow feel morally superior pretending that rampant corruption doesn’t exist in their countries, whereas it is completely out off control, sadly unrecognized by a dumbed down population believing what they see on TV.
As to sufficiency, suspect it’s real message of moderation has been re-interpreted by the Elite as moderation for the masses rather than themselves of course. In other words keep telling the poor they should be happy with their lot in life…nice.
Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
RN England – 17
I had a good laugh at LesAbbey’s fatwa (16) against comparing the Burmese and Thai generals.
OK, just to keep it extremely simple so as not tax anyone’s brain too much, let’s start with the very obvious difference.
In 1962 the Burmese generals toppled a civilian government and have never given up power since. That’s 48 years by my calculation.
In 2006 Sonthi toppled Thaksin and within a year and half handed power back to the politicians.
Does that look similar RN?
Aung San Suu Kyi on engagement
Aung San Suu Kyi thanks Australia
That’s ABC’s title for the piece. I thought it was about Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and Burma, but apparently its about Australia.
Could someone refresh my mind as to what Australia has done to help either Daw Aung San Suu Kyi or Burma?
Aung San Suu Kyi on engagement
I take issue with Zoe Daniels’s assertion that “little has changed politically in Burma since your detention”.
I know most of the world’s media don’t want to recognise the fact last week’s election took place, but for most Myanmar people a significant change has just occurred, for better or worse.
As Marie Lall wrote in the BBC on Saturday:
What is fast becoming Burma’s greatest fault line is the rift between the anti-regime groups inside and those outside of the country.
They want the same thing but cannot reconcile their positions.
Today this is the biggest challenge for society in Burma – the need for a convergence between the two opposition groups.
Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
“And yet the moment the comparison is made between the Burmese generals and the Thai generals commanding the 2006 coup, the differences so far outweigh the similarities that it no longer makes sense. Again it just becomes propaganda.” (#16)
It is indeed propaganda Les and ignorance.
Cambodia is not a province of Thailand
Thanks for the article. It is really interesting.
I may shared a vision with the website owner and of the author, I want to see Cambodian, Thai, Vietnamese, Laos and others, live and prosper together, not prosper at the price of another.
But you know, again this great article just circulate around the scholar, yet not the mass. And given, it translates to local newspaper, how will the busy-to-make-enough-for-living will read this long article? How sure the translator/editor put the initial sense to be enlightened by this article?
Let’s hope for the best.
Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
I had a good laugh at LesAbbey’s fatwa (16) against comparing the Burmese and Thai generals. Too bad it’s on everybody’s mind.
Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
Polyphemus – 15
Suwhanabhumi-”the fabled golden land”; for the few, it seems- has a very porous border.1
And yet the moment the comparison is made between the Burmese generals and the Thai generals commanding the 2006 coup, the differences so far outweigh the similarities that it no longer makes sense. Again it just becomes propaganda. There are good criticisms UDD supporters could make of Sonthi and Surayud but they show immaturity and lack of effort in those they do make.
Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
There was an article on Burma in the BKK Post yesterday(writer Phil Thornton).
The subline says: “Burma, the fabled golden land of yesterday, is time-locked, pillaged and run down by a military regime obsessed with keeping control of its wealth, land and people.”
Suwhanabhumi-“the fabled golden land”; for the few, it seems- has a very porous border.
Aung San Suu Kyi released
Time she broke the vicious circle of defiance and defeat. Confrontation if unavoidable needs to be backed up by force, and whoever can muster it will most likely end up the winner if neither party will back down. Her people are ready and willing more than ever to follow her all the way.
The generals, though always fully prepared for it, do not want confrontation, only capitulation or collaboration. Repeated calls for genuine dialogue have only fallen on deaf ears so far. Chance would be a fine thing even to be able to contemplate and discuss some kind of compromise with the regime. That’s evidently not the kind of politics they do.
Time she reclaimed the Tatmadaw for the people. She must try and level the playing field, so People Power has a fighting chance of winning. No need to split the army, just win them over en masse. If she can’t do it, no one can. Definitely worth trying when it comes to the crunch, and it requires political work beforehand which the NLD is still best placed to carry out. Not only did they see no choice but to free her as they ran out of excuses, interestingly they have not persecuted the NLD for carrying on with political agitation let alone outlaw the oraganisation. They must make hay while the sun shines. It’s not likely to last.
I’m sure it’s not martyrdom she seeks as Justin Wintle has suggested. To leave their mark and make a name in history books as their mission in life is what career politicians like Tony Blair do.
She wants results for her people, but if she remains hamstrung by her total commitment to non-violence, she is looking at a fate like the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala for a half century and counting, or worse. They wouldn’t mind seeing her lobbying and rubbing shoulders with world leaders and statesmen, but they might get desperate enough to make another attempt on her life because she will stay and continue to lead her people in their ‘second struggle for independence’ .
She remains the only person, like her father before her, who can unite all the myriad peoples of Burma and achieve genuine national reconciliation, but it looks increasingly like in the end this will actually need the overthrow of the ‘elected’ military regime as a crucial step. And she needs to be more like her father in having no qualms about the people’s right to armed resistance.
She cannot be sidelined by the generals but come the fire next time she can be left by the wayside if she fails to lead the people to victory.
Aung San Suu Kyi released
Khun Vichai,
This is not the Thaksin bashing page – plenty of room elsewhere!
Mr Lee,
Of course “The Lady” has international status, an honourable CV and charisma, why begrudge this? The Burmese people you root for certainly don’t. If she is their last, best hope on the international stage – that’s where their needs are best served. If you are cynical of the peace movement approach then you’ll have to await the next insurrection and bloody crack down to sate your appetite.
I see today she is prepared for open discussions with her elders and betters. Don’t see them going there unless it’s for a new era photo-op but lets see first eh? There may be bigger wheels in motion we are unaware of…
I don’t think they are desperate enough to martyr her at the moment with their shiny new democratic suits on – and such fears have not and would not stop her following her own chosen path anyway.
Aung San Suu Kyi released
I understand that her youngest son Kim, who hasn’t seen her for 10 years, has been waiting in Bangkok for a Burma visa for almost a week now. Will he get one? We don’t know yet.
Daw Suu has been invited to attend the Nobel laureates’ congress, she has a grandchild overseas she’s never seen, people are suggesting she meet people overseas. Will she go? I guess she still fears that if she leaves the country she may be barred from going back. That was the case when her husband was dying.
She has been put through insufferable pain by the low-life junta and her grace though it all is a shining example to all human beings. We just don’t know what they will do next, Than Shwe is an uncaring, unpredictable paranoiac and we can only hope for the best.
Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
Vichai N @13: How about the government’s daily repression of free expression and other human rights, which threaten no one while Abhisit claims the government is only suppressing acts that incite violence?
Aung San Suu Kyi released
[…] Nicholas Farrelly at the excellent New Mandala blog puts it: "…many difficult questions remain unanswered and nobody pretends that the future […]
Aung San Suu Kyi released
Pavin Chachavalpongpun on Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and the Burmese
military:
Suu Kyi faces long ‘struggle’
That’s about the same line he takes with Thai democrats and the Thai military, isn’t it?
They just have to “compromise a little bit and work with the new government”?
Public Service Announcement to all Malaysians
@ Srithanonchai #5
Yes, Sri – It is a statement in the tradition of a utopian normative democracy theory but also based on practical ideas.
In the economic literature (the field that I am in) – its about incentives. Groups that have more to loose or more to gain – tend to spend more resources to achieve these objectives (e.g. Abishit in Thailand and UMNO in Malaysia).
Citizens – as they are dispersed and thus the benefits & costs too- tend to have limited incentive to take action (individually or collectively).
However, if someone can demonstrate the costs and the benefits (notice that this video provides numerous examples of the deterioration of the quality of life (cost) & not on utopian ideals), then the citizens can be galvanised.
Pragmatic ideas, I believe, is often motivated by people with utopian ideals .
Bangkok: This is a massacre
[…] The May 2010 massacre in Thailand […]
Aung San Suu Kyi released
Yes, wonderful news…up to a point. And very moving. But, how free is she, and for how long?
Watching the coverage on the Beeb last night, I was struck by a statement Sue Lloyd – Roberts made: the Burmese military get 40% of total budget, while Education gets 1%. I’m wondering how this compares with Thailand. Anyone know?
Aung San Suu Kyi released
“The opposition icon of Burma (Aung San Suu Kyi) was honoured (with a Nobel laureate honors) in 1991 for her non- violent struggle for democracy and human rights, but was unable to travel to Scandinavia because she was under house arrest. She also feared she would not be allowed to return to Burma, and asked her husband, who has since died, to accept the prize on her behalf.”
Aung San Suu Kyi feared she would NOT be allowed to return to Burma, while Thailand’s self-proclaimed hero of Thai democracy, feared being forcibly repatriated back to Thailand. The contrast of heroes is astounding!
Aung San Suu Kyi released
Pigs may fly! Abhiset might listen. Thaksin might practice what he spins. Singapore might become more democratic. Malaysia might stop putting all its blame on its minorities. Hun Sen might learn to live within his own means instead of robbing it from the rest of the population. New Mandala might figure that it earnest intellectuallism is a total waste of effort in a region that continues to prefer tinpot dictators, blowhards and out-&-out crooks. Like it or not, this region is stuck with silly old fools in ridiculous uniforms for decades to come. And the world and this forum really doesn’t have the slightest idea how to deal with such riff-raff.