How nice to cross paths again though virtually this time. It has been many years since those two weeks in December 1974, but to me it seems like just yesterday.
Although we have our differences, I commend you for the work you’ve put in to writing this piece.
Talking about Thakin Soe, at one point during our stay in Insein Prison, Bo and I were kept in a house between Thakhin Soe and Lo Sing Han. We did not get a chance to talk to either of them because Thakin Soe’s house was separated from ours by a path and Lo could not speak Burmese. Later, after we all got released, my father invited him to my wedding. He expressed his regrets to my father and apologized for starting the civil war. Although he commanded a smaller force compared to BCP, the Red Flags nonetheless wreaked havoc in the areas they controlled. Remember Hsin Swe Ywar massacre? Though BCP was marching to its own tune or rather to that of the COMINFORM’s, the taunts that Red Flags were hurling at the former, challenging their manhood with slogans such as Thay Ye Da Alan Nee ( they who dare to die are Red Flags) Taik Ye Da Alan Nee (they who dare to fight are Red Flags) did influence the BCP rank and file’s thinking tipping them in the direction of violence. But this is my personal opinion.
As for Thakin Than Tun and U Kyaw Nyein, they knew each other back in Pyinmana before college. My father told me jokingly that Than Tun took to the jungles without paying back the 35 rupees owed to him since their college days. That said, they were implacable foes ideologically. As a Marxist Leninist, Thakin Than Tun was set on establishing a proletarian dictatorship in Burma and U Kyaw Nyein dreamed of turning Burma into Sweden or Denmark one day. So, there in lies the problem. And, of course they and the country soon got swept up by maelstrom of cold war.
Nich #25 :
Thanks for your continuing kind offer :
I’m working on it, and events seem to be increasing the possibility of this scenario eventually eventuating, from totally remote and unconsidered, as was the case before I raised the possibility.
However it is history-in-the-making-as-process – not event.
It also needs to be seen within the wider variations, tensions and conflicts of East Asian security architecture : http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2010/10/asian_defence_ministers_meet_hanoi
Sorry that I didn’t make it clear, he was “shot” in the cheek and then his friend was kill next to him on the 10th of April 2010 as reported by channel 3 so this is no rumors. I think at a point Maticon also report that but I’m not too sure which day. After all that, do you still surprise why the guy wants to take some revenge?
It is clear that clips 3, 4, and 5 were recorded by a court official attending the meeting in the room (from the table that is opposite to Charan’s seat, you can see the serving of juice and moving of a coffee cup so that it does not block the picture, on one clip).
It is also clear how the court view the cases, and very irony that some members mentioned that they wanted to protect the law, in their style.
It is very revealing to see how these “amats” behave.
I think the points made about migration and remittances hit at the heart of how well the rural countryside is doing. The north probably has as many houses built from the proceeds of prostitution as the northeast. And has anyone looked into how dependent poor villagers are from remittances? Note the Khmer populations on the Cambodian border that seem so dependent on remittance from their family members in Bangkok and seasonal labour for all expenses. Maybe they are the forgotten poor, but there are many other people along this border who are often living on the margins. Srisaket is probably the worst, even more so since the border became a war zone.
” . . . but the UDD went there to discuss among themselves, exchange information, and discuss what is possible or simply rumors.” (Tarrin #39).
” . . . but take the red shirt that died from Nonaburi explosion, the guy was shot in the face and his friend die next to him, how do you think a person should response to the government that did that to him?” (Tarrin #42)
Is that the latest ‘rumor’, I mean truth-search, from the UDD meetings Tarrin? Because I would consider that quite a feat by that late Nonthaburi Red bomber Samai Wongsuwan: (1) shoot his friend, then (2) himself through his own face after he accidentally triggered his self-made bomb that had not only killed him but cut of his right shooting arm as well.
Now I could go to sleep peacefully and banish thoughts of petrol-filled bottles, M79 grenade launchers, assault rifle attacks, arsonists on a rampage at Rachaprasong and this most recent –
A classical academic phase that I have heard very often is “The government shouldn’t think that they can monopolized violence” I quote this phase because you made me feels like somehow the Red is obligated to be “peaceful”. I’m not saying that I’m encourage violence though, but take the red shirt that died from Nonaburi explosion, the guy was shot in the face and his friend die next to him, how do you think a person should response to the government that did that to him?
To Homer. Debt in Thailand is NEVER interest free. Perhaps helping immediate family with monetary consideration might be, but the majority of debt that I see is the rural peasants owing money to the Chinese ‘rice mill’ Mafia with enormous interest rates.
I provide the links here in good faith with the understanding that the authenticity of the clip has not been extablished, hence the clip is still technically legal – it could be just a fake. However, if and when it’s esblished that the clip is authentic, there could be legal issue arising from secret taping of conversation, and charge could be laid for distribution. If that becomes the case, I’d certainly be obliged to stop drawing attention to it in public. (As I’m writing these lines, Matichon online is still providing link to the clip on YouTube http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1287228593&grpid=00&catid= )
I personally haven’t had time to study the whole clip in details, but what struck me most, as an acdemic, is the second part. The persons in that clip are shown discussing how to create ‘public opinion’ in favor of the Democrat Party’s escaping dissolution by having four or five academics coming out and speaking in public against the dissolution, without of course informing the public that these academics are prompted or asked to do so by the Democrats themselves.
” . . . but the UDD went there to discuss among themselves, exchange information, and discuss what is possible or simply rumors.” (Tarrin #39).
That Red shirts described by Tarrin absolutely stun by their peaceful and truth-searching demeanor . . .
Now I could go to sleep peacefully and banish thoughts of petrol-filled bottles, M79 grenade launchers, assault rifle attacks, arsonists on a rampage at Rachaprasong and this most recent – could a tenant in an apartment block adjacent to my house be assembling the next bomb?
I think Pluem miss the point, these clip is not to pressure the court to dissolve the democrat party but to show that the Thai courts are not independent and heavily politicized.
Many thanks for your lengthy and thoughtful comment. I have great respects for you two brothers since I have met you and Ko Bo Kyaw Nyein inside the RASU Convocation hall during the weeks-long U Thant Uprising in December 1974.
I have to say that this episode is the saddest one for me to write, and I almost cried after reading it again and again so many times.
The sad story of two very close friends who worked together, risked their lives together, and sacrificed their lifetimes for their noble dreams finally turned against each other for the reasons I still could not figure it out clearly, yet, and the worst is our Burma has been suffering for that sin.
First, for your assertion of counting Thakhin Soe’s rebellion, I still think Thakhin Soe as just a cruel joke on us Burmese even though he was influential and personally responsible for recruiting many famous figures like Bo Kyaw Zaw into the Communism.
He felt so guilty about what he had done to Burma he even begged the people of Burma for their forgiveness just before he died.
Second, for your assertion of me ignoring the global and regional context in which unfolding events were prodding BCP and its fraternal Asian Communist parties on the path to civil war, I have to reply that I intentionally emphasized your father’s own writing about Zadanov’s policy and Goshal’s article to balance Bo Kyaw Zaw’s accusation.
Kyaw Nyein had honestly believed that the CPB was already too deep into their war schedule and to prevent the civil war he had to act decisively while he and his Socialists still had the advantage of surprise attack and the government power in hands to do just that. So he sent in the dogs to abort the civil war baby well before it was born. But the baby was still born and it wasn’t a stillborn.
Finally, the only possible answer I have for your invitation to ponder what might have happened if the arrest orders were stayed on that fateful day of March 28, 1948, is that I wouldn’t even be born to speculate as I was born in a thick jungle near Pyimanar while my parents were the Communist guerrillas fighting for their Utopian dream, the Dictatorship of Proletariat.
Despite what David Streckfuss says about his not being reasonably open to charges of LM, it has to be borne in mind that all reason seems to have gone out the window in Thailand :
every charge seems now to rest on politics, not rule / logic of law. Long has it been so, on many levels – but not for a long time, to this degree : http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/201763/flip-flop-policy
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Burma in Limbo, part 4
Dear Ko Hla Oo,
How nice to cross paths again though virtually this time. It has been many years since those two weeks in December 1974, but to me it seems like just yesterday.
Although we have our differences, I commend you for the work you’ve put in to writing this piece.
Talking about Thakin Soe, at one point during our stay in Insein Prison, Bo and I were kept in a house between Thakhin Soe and Lo Sing Han. We did not get a chance to talk to either of them because Thakin Soe’s house was separated from ours by a path and Lo could not speak Burmese. Later, after we all got released, my father invited him to my wedding. He expressed his regrets to my father and apologized for starting the civil war. Although he commanded a smaller force compared to BCP, the Red Flags nonetheless wreaked havoc in the areas they controlled. Remember Hsin Swe Ywar massacre? Though BCP was marching to its own tune or rather to that of the COMINFORM’s, the taunts that Red Flags were hurling at the former, challenging their manhood with slogans such as Thay Ye Da Alan Nee ( they who dare to die are Red Flags) Taik Ye Da Alan Nee (they who dare to fight are Red Flags) did influence the BCP rank and file’s thinking tipping them in the direction of violence. But this is my personal opinion.
As for Thakin Than Tun and U Kyaw Nyein, they knew each other back in Pyinmana before college. My father told me jokingly that Than Tun took to the jungles without paying back the 35 rupees owed to him since their college days. That said, they were implacable foes ideologically. As a Marxist Leninist, Thakin Than Tun was set on establishing a proletarian dictatorship in Burma and U Kyaw Nyein dreamed of turning Burma into Sweden or Denmark one day. So, there in lies the problem. And, of course they and the country soon got swept up by maelstrom of cold war.
Democrat dissolution videos
@sid, BP has translated both the youtube description and summary from matichon here: http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/what-are-the-five-leaked-videos-about
Democrat dissolution videos
Can somebody explain more about the contentof the videos or point us to a English transcript?
Topics for future discussion on New Mandala
Nich #25 :
Thanks for your continuing kind offer :
I’m working on it, and events seem to be increasing the possibility of this scenario eventually eventuating, from totally remote and unconsidered, as was the case before I raised the possibility.
However it is history-in-the-making-as-process – not event.
It also needs to be seen within the wider variations, tensions and conflicts of East Asian security architecture :
http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2010/10/asian_defence_ministers_meet_hanoi
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
MattB – 44
Sorry that I didn’t make it clear, he was “shot” in the cheek and then his friend was kill next to him on the 10th of April 2010 as reported by channel 3 so this is no rumors. I think at a point Maticon also report that but I’m not too sure which day. After all that, do you still surprise why the guy wants to take some revenge?
More on King Bhumibol’s health
Another sighting of hospital-bound HMK is in the offing :
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/09/28/national/Royals-to-attend-concert-honouring-His-Majesty-30138868.html
Note this appearance is in memory of HMK’s last performance
in front of a student audience, on 29th September 1976.
We all know how the music played during the next month : October.
Democrat dissolution videos
It is clear that clips 3, 4, and 5 were recorded by a court official attending the meeting in the room (from the table that is opposite to Charan’s seat, you can see the serving of juice and moving of a coffee cup so that it does not block the picture, on one clip).
It is also clear how the court view the cases, and very irony that some members mentioned that they wanted to protect the law, in their style.
It is very revealing to see how these “amats” behave.
The dominance of the middle-income peasants
I think the points made about migration and remittances hit at the heart of how well the rural countryside is doing. The north probably has as many houses built from the proceeds of prostitution as the northeast. And has anyone looked into how dependent poor villagers are from remittances? Note the Khmer populations on the Cambodian border that seem so dependent on remittance from their family members in Bangkok and seasonal labour for all expenses. Maybe they are the forgotten poor, but there are many other people along this border who are often living on the margins. Srisaket is probably the worst, even more so since the border became a war zone.
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
” . . . but the UDD went there to discuss among themselves, exchange information, and discuss what is possible or simply rumors.” (Tarrin #39).
” . . . but take the red shirt that died from Nonaburi explosion, the guy was shot in the face and his friend die next to him, how do you think a person should response to the government that did that to him?” (Tarrin #42)
Is that the latest ‘rumor’, I mean truth-search, from the UDD meetings Tarrin? Because I would consider that quite a feat by that late Nonthaburi Red bomber Samai Wongsuwan: (1) shoot his friend, then (2) himself through his own face after he accidentally triggered his self-made bomb that had not only killed him but cut of his right shooting arm as well.
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
Footwear with political portraits as sold by the PAD and the Red Shirts can be compared at:
http://facthai.wordpress.com
under the post titled “Lèse majesté charge for alleged bomb hoax-PPT
09-10-10”
Typing “alleged bomb hoax” into the search box should get you there.
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
MattB – 41
Now I could go to sleep peacefully and banish thoughts of petrol-filled bottles, M79 grenade launchers, assault rifle attacks, arsonists on a rampage at Rachaprasong and this most recent –
A classical academic phase that I have heard very often is “The government shouldn’t think that they can monopolized violence” I quote this phase because you made me feels like somehow the Red is obligated to be “peaceful”. I’m not saying that I’m encourage violence though, but take the red shirt that died from Nonaburi explosion, the guy was shot in the face and his friend die next to him, how do you think a person should response to the government that did that to him?
How much of a burden is rural debt in Thailand?
To Homer. Debt in Thailand is NEVER interest free. Perhaps helping immediate family with monetary consideration might be, but the majority of debt that I see is the rural peasants owing money to the Chinese ‘rice mill’ Mafia with enormous interest rates.
Burma in Limbo, part 4
I like to said Thank you U Hla Oo.
I’m relay appreciate to read this.
Democrat dissolution videos
You can download the full video clip here (all five parts in one single file):
http://www.4shared.com/video/3VyGPGve/topsecret_democrat_to_be_disso.html
and here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?178d9jvnd0wdn60
I provide the links here in good faith with the understanding that the authenticity of the clip has not been extablished, hence the clip is still technically legal – it could be just a fake. However, if and when it’s esblished that the clip is authentic, there could be legal issue arising from secret taping of conversation, and charge could be laid for distribution. If that becomes the case, I’d certainly be obliged to stop drawing attention to it in public. (As I’m writing these lines, Matichon online is still providing link to the clip on YouTube http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1287228593&grpid=00&catid= )
I personally haven’t had time to study the whole clip in details, but what struck me most, as an acdemic, is the second part. The persons in that clip are shown discussing how to create ‘public opinion’ in favor of the Democrat Party’s escaping dissolution by having four or five academics coming out and speaking in public against the dissolution, without of course informing the public that these academics are prompted or asked to do so by the Democrats themselves.
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
” . . . but the UDD went there to discuss among themselves, exchange information, and discuss what is possible or simply rumors.” (Tarrin #39).
That Red shirts described by Tarrin absolutely stun by their peaceful and truth-searching demeanor . . .
Now I could go to sleep peacefully and banish thoughts of petrol-filled bottles, M79 grenade launchers, assault rifle attacks, arsonists on a rampage at Rachaprasong and this most recent – could a tenant in an apartment block adjacent to my house be assembling the next bomb?
Democrat dissolution videos
I think Pluem miss the point, these clip is not to pressure the court to dissolve the democrat party but to show that the Thai courts are not independent and heavily politicized.
Democrat dissolution videos
AW can agree with Khun Pleum, but if the tapes are real, then there is more at stake than the dissolution of parties.
Burma in Limbo, part 4
Ko Tun Kyaw Nyein,
Many thanks for your lengthy and thoughtful comment. I have great respects for you two brothers since I have met you and Ko Bo Kyaw Nyein inside the RASU Convocation hall during the weeks-long U Thant Uprising in December 1974.
I have to say that this episode is the saddest one for me to write, and I almost cried after reading it again and again so many times.
The sad story of two very close friends who worked together, risked their lives together, and sacrificed their lifetimes for their noble dreams finally turned against each other for the reasons I still could not figure it out clearly, yet, and the worst is our Burma has been suffering for that sin.
First, for your assertion of counting Thakhin Soe’s rebellion, I still think Thakhin Soe as just a cruel joke on us Burmese even though he was influential and personally responsible for recruiting many famous figures like Bo Kyaw Zaw into the Communism.
He felt so guilty about what he had done to Burma he even begged the people of Burma for their forgiveness just before he died.
Second, for your assertion of me ignoring the global and regional context in which unfolding events were prodding BCP and its fraternal Asian Communist parties on the path to civil war, I have to reply that I intentionally emphasized your father’s own writing about Zadanov’s policy and Goshal’s article to balance Bo Kyaw Zaw’s accusation.
Kyaw Nyein had honestly believed that the CPB was already too deep into their war schedule and to prevent the civil war he had to act decisively while he and his Socialists still had the advantage of surprise attack and the government power in hands to do just that. So he sent in the dogs to abort the civil war baby well before it was born. But the baby was still born and it wasn’t a stillborn.
Finally, the only possible answer I have for your invitation to ponder what might have happened if the arrest orders were stayed on that fateful day of March 28, 1948, is that I wouldn’t even be born to speculate as I was born in a thick jungle near Pyimanar while my parents were the Communist guerrillas fighting for their Utopian dream, the Dictatorship of Proletariat.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Hi Nick,
Just see one video from Youtube the moment you took the picture of Mr.Channarong Polsrila at Gas station’s toilet. Might be helpful to you
Starting from 0.52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux1-eGp287g&feature=related
Review of Streckfuss on lese majeste
Despite what David Streckfuss says about his not being reasonably open to charges of LM, it has to be borne in mind that all reason seems to have gone out the window in Thailand :
every charge seems now to rest on politics, not rule / logic of law. Long has it been so, on many levels – but not for a long time, to this degree :
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/201763/flip-flop-policy