Comments

chris beale 5
Lest we forget the current dynasty is descended from a military general who removed the previous incumbent.
Kings throughout history are expected to exhibit all the qualities of generalship and martial prowess. The current monarch is no exception and these attributes were promulgated during the not so cold war in SE Asia in the 60’s and 70’s.

When reading on Thai history I am often reminded of the cautionary tale of Rex Nemorensis recalled in “The Golden Bough” (which I am sure must have been familiar to the Princes Damrong and Rangsit).
The nation has a long and proud history of military usurpers and historical revisionism. Some become monarchs, some generals, some dictators and some Prime Minister. The cult of Thaksin is a modern addition to an ancient tale and the story’s not over until the diva sings….
One thing I am quite certain of is whoever is left enthroned when the dust settles it will be an individual personality with a sufficient store of acceptable “barami” (or cojones)- not any kind of collective of peoples representatives.
A people get the government they deserve and this culture thrives on respect for the hard man. T’was ever thus…
Hence why the current P.M is seen as a caretaker at best or puppet at worst.
Unfortunately Newin fits the bill in many respects….You don’t need to be loved, only feared sufficiently.

Tom Hoy – 13

No problem in changing one’s mind Tom, but there are different reasons one’s analysis could change. For some, and I hope it includes you, it may have been on matters of personal principle. For others it may just have been good old-fashioned political opportunism.

For myself I am lucky that I have had a consistent view on both Thaksin and the Nation. Those views may be more gray than black and white, but at least I haven’t had to take part in the mental gymnastics that some have.

Jonny: “Please forgive my increasingly long-winded responses. I’m exhausted from posting far more concise and succinct responses on robertamsterdam.com (100% censorship) and HuffingtonPost (85% censorship).” No. If that were true, your posts here would be shorter; you are already exhausted. Go for succinct here, too.

Jim Taylor #11 re :
“Thaksin reasonably replaced journalists who continued the slandering and propaganda & who were not prepared to cooperate with the new owners…sounds reasonable to me/”.
I’ve long respected your many admirable comments on NM, but this one is outrageous.
Especially coming from an academic who is supposed to respect academic independence !!
Ever heard of journalistic independence ?
Whether the journalists were slandering or propagandising should have been tested through the courts, and public opinion – not the diktat of Herr Thaksin.
Jim, with these comments you sound as fascist as those you correctly criticise.

Hla Oo,

Do you really believe the regime will go unchecked and isolated? It may seem so outwardly, but it ain’t. They might as well press the self-destruct button if they are about to get hold of any sort of WMDs. It’s a downright dangerous and deadly game if they want to play it that way, and they sure won’t get away with it.

Their forefathers have come to grief before with their rampant militarism and wars of invasion and expansion in the region. Remember 1824, 1852 and 1885. Crazy doesn’t cut it, cunning does.

jonny at 47 talks of getting debate on an even keel and “correct reporting of the realities on the ground”. Nonsense. There are no facts in a discussion of what he thinks red shirts – all of them! – think about the monarchy. It is conjecture, so why the pretense that jonny is doing anything other than using and re-using state propaganda. There is certainly enough evidence that “some” red shirts hate the monarchy and what they have done. We see that in publications, web sites, recent graffiti and so on. But to even think of putting a % figure on this shows a lack of perspective and good sense.

I can’t speak for Jim. But I can tell you this , Les Abbey, my view did flip-flop at that pivotal point because it became quite clear to me that my analysis prior to the coup was completely wrong.

There was fresh, compelling evidence of what was happening so I changed my mind.

Jonny, you should be careful about endorsing ” Liberty, equality, fraternity” as your political creed.

Don’t you remember where that one led? 1793?

Jonny,

This statement is pure, bold faced junta talking points:

“universal cult-like adoration of their benefactor, Thaksin.”

I dislike Thaksin and wish he would vanish from the Thai political scene (and there are a bunch of others I wish he would take with him). He does clearly still play a significant, although unclear, role in in the red movement.

But your statement is an intentional repetition of state propaganda that was created for the purpose of discrediting a democratic movement that you disagree with.

I wish you had the knowledge and the courage to be able to discuss this logically with facts and evidence rather than just putting Manager Media talking points in bold font, but it seems this is the extent of your abilities.

The Crown Property Bureau is worth some $40bn. Thaksin is #23 of the list of wealthiest Thais according to Forbes. There methodology can only track wealth associated with public activities such as stock market listed companies like AIS, so many of the richest aren’t even on the list.

Thaksin does not have anywhere near the money to destabilize Thailand on his own.

Again, I have no objection to discussing the good and bads of Thaksin, but this is well trodden ground. We have heard “Thaksin is the devil” shouted enough times already, their is nothing gained by shouting it more.

We would obviously gain a lot more by putting out some facts on about the goods and bads of others, but the security apparatus already knows this as Jiranut and others have found out.

And one guess: You are an American, who has lived in Thailand less than three years and doesn’t speak much Thai.

@ Nobody:

Your points are well made. Except you appear to exclude one unifying “tie that binds” all the Red factions together. And it’s that single odious binder that I – and anyone who believes in “liberty, fraternity, equality” should also – flatly refuse to accept as ‘valid’ or ‘legitimate’.

It’s that unifying binder which causes contradictions to appear in what would otherwise be legitimate beefs worth voicing (voicing…not violent rioting). The contradictions which negate the many otherwise-valid issues which – ostensibly – form the basis of their ‘disenfranchisement’. And, perhaps most importantly, a unifying binder that unites the factions, directs strategy via orders to his various Red lieutenants, and one which provides them with extensive funding.

The unifying variable is – of course – their almost universal cult-like adoration of their benefactor, Thaksin. And his illegitimately-acquired billions. It’s a unifying ribbon which many believe has tied together a non-existent ‘movement’, by harnessing a range of valid concerns and issues in ironically hypocritical fashion…uniting them with a common strategy…and supplying them with a generous budget.

They are a mix of many sure…united by their love of, and united by their funding by, and until they decide they want nothing to do with Thaksin, they’ll be united in their being dismissed by those with a memory longer than 5 years duration.