OK, Jonny, or whatever name you use in other comments, it is clear you are a pure propagandist. There is no value in engaging with you as you are just looking for an excuse to shout your message.
Our views are not aligned. They are opposed. I am pretty sure I had this exact conversation with you on the Bhumipol cult thread some months ago although you must have been using a different name. But it was the identical approach. You said, actually our views are very similar, then pasted in the same hysterical rant you used last time.
You cannot fervently plead with someone to agree with you. You have to use facts to convince them. If you try this, we can talk. But for now, be assured that you rant is convincing no one of anything.
Hey jonny… your description fits the leaders of the Democrat Party, the Bhumijaithai Party, the ChatThai Pattana Party, the PPT Party, the New Politics Party… which ones are you referring to?
The juxtaposition at the top of the column is Google and lèse majesté. Google’s play with lèse majesté seems regarded as an “aberration”. Google are the neo-liberal “good-guys”.
Check out this Drone Porn site, the “New America Foundation”. They did some “research” and claim that only 30% of the people America’s program of remote controlled, targeted executions in Pakistan are blameless civilians. Even if that were true it would still be a war-crime of truly monstrous dimensions. But its not true. The count on blameless civilians is much higher. The count of those “accused, tried, sentenced, and executed” by a Gameboy on a TV screen is 100%. The Chairman of the Board of the New America Foundation is the Chairman of the Board of Google : Eric Schmidt.
Google is unspeakably evil. Google and authoritarian prosecutions for lèse majesté go together like love and marriage, like a horse and carriage… can’t have one without the other.
Thaksin for all his faults, the problematic consequences of his anti-drug and Southern policies, was for more socially engaged than most Socially Engaged Buddhists who see politics as impure and corrupt but doing nothing…
Please forgive my increasingly long-winded responses. I’m exhausted from posting far more concise and succinct responses on robertamsterdam.com (100% censorship) and HuffingtonPost (85% censorship).
At least you good people don’t go in for that version of “free speech”.
But in appreciation of that fact, I shall endeavour to heavily edit down future responses in gratitude and a desire to achieve ‘readability’…apologies!
@ Albert Park: Did you just attempt to rephrase my correct reporting of the realities on the ground here in Bangkok? But with misattributed and ludicrous hyperbole replacing my balanced, objective statements? In an attempt to frame my valid arguments as nothing but extremist nonsense?
I’m 17 again and in my Politics 101 tutorial! Let’s keep the discussion on an even keel, please?
In response to your ‘question’, no doubt there are a tiny fraction of the Red Shirts who hold Republican sentiments – but at the risk of rudely responding to your non-question with a genuine question, are you genuinely under the mistaken impression that a % greater than (negligible) of the Red Shirts don’t much care for their King? If you are, I assure you that you are very, very incorrect. They adore the King, but they’re conflicted about the ‘elites’ contradiction and they reconcile this contradiction by simply refusing to associate the amataya with the monarchy. It’s almost tragic in a way…a moderate number died in armed conflict fighting something they would gladly die…to defend. Thaksin hijacked their incredibly valid cause, but he pinned the Tail of Injustice onto the incorrect Donkey.
But of course, pinning it onto the correct Donkey would be somewhat counter-productive – he loves injustice and abuses of power…it’s just that he believes he should be one doling the abuses out.
If you choose to ignore this contradiction in their stated positions – as you no doubt will (again) – perhaps you will address the fact that, for all the vaunted rhetoric about the Red Shirts fighting a “class war”, it seems they can’t get enough supporters to stage a peaceful protest that would actually have any impact (which, surprise shock horror omg, is why they resort to armed rioting). If Justin Beiber came to Bangkok, he’d generate a crowd 5-10 times the size of their rioting number of a few months back. This doesn’t exactly impress me as widespread “social upheaval”. Not in a country of 70 million disenfranchised and oppressed proletariats under the heel of a tiny powerful ‘elite’?
Not even with Thaksin-funded ‘allowances’ for attendance….
What the world needs to understand is that the vast majority of Thais are not represented by the Red Shirts. The vast majority certainly hold sympathetic views towards the more valid of the Red Shirts’ concerns re: injustices and double-standards – sympathies which have been heavily eroded by horrors of seeing children used as human shields, and growing frustrations at the Red Shirts increasingly apparent endgame ‘goal’ earlier this year – namely; hijack Bangkok CBD until the government is forced to move them along (66 days of patience, let the historical record show), at which point they attacked armed soldiers with small arms fire, Molotov cocktails, slingshots and home-made rockets…all whilst hiding behind incredibly effective (and cute) barricades (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/377/redshirtsffs.jpg)…hoping they generate a body count Thaksin and Amsterdam can “work with” (after Thaksin gets back from shopping at Louis Vuitton, of course).
The simple fact is that yes, there are incredibly valid social welfare / justice issues which must be addressed – the exact nature of which the vast majority of Thais (even the ever-burgeoning middle class) are – quite – cognisant of. But if Thaksin is your idea of the “go-to” guy to address those concerns, you should also lobby the Catholic Pope to head the UN taskforce to deal with overpopulation issues and the HIV epidemic in Sub-Saharan Africa. The two men are roughly equally qualified for the respective jobs.
In the sense that they’re equally disruptive when they bring their unique brand of ‘solutions’ to the task at hand….
The article I linked to is exactly what was printed on the flier. The facebook page is just a digital copy. Mark Teufel is a Red Shirt supporter out of Germany. He wrote a massive book detailing the Ratchaprasong Rally and the subsequent crackdown. Unfortunately, it’s written in German. We are in in the process of finding volunteers to translate from German to English.
Mr. Crispin, where have you gone? I noticed that you ignored most of the points in my last comment. The truth hurts, doesn’t it?
For some time The Nation has been the only quotable source on the ThaiVisa forum due to an economic arrangement. It also swings that blog to a certain style of limited establishment viewpoints. I gave up on the Nation and Thaivisa years ago for their blatant biased reporting and distortion of the truth. Add that Thaivisa through its moderators protects pedophilia but that is another rant.
If The Nation have picked up one decent journalist then good, doesn’t change that it is currently a biased rag, but at least there may be hope. Reminds me too that I haven’t read NTN for a while.
Prior to the coup, the Nation criticized the Thaksin government for some of its many failings (although they steered clear most of the time of what I consider its really big failings – the murders in Tak Bai and the war on drugs) and Thaksin who is no democrat tried his best to stifle them and other opposition voices, something else they rightly criticized.
So, to some extent they were playing the proper role of the press in a free society, a watchdog and a defender of freedom of expression.
But to get rid of Thaksin, they hitched their wagon to the PAD, the royalists and the army coupsters and became a lapdog and an advocate for the suppression of freedom of speech.
So Jonny, all red shirts except Thaksin (is he a red shirt?) love the king. No class struggle, no social upheaval. Only you truly understand “their” angst. Remarkable stuff if it hadn’t already been said by the Abhisit government and their yellow-shirted supporters. Aren’t you somewhat behind the wave?
Andrew, I did engage on the very substantive issue about Crispin’s credibility (he has little in mine and many other peoples’ eyes) and you didn’t publish my comment because you deemed it (incorrectly in my view) as personal abuse.
You also didn’t address my question and chose, instead, to attack me.
So I’ll ask it again – What is yours and Nich’s association with Crispin?
I’m going to go out on a limb here – and anyone who doubts my objectivity can refer me to the censors for speaking my mind – and reiterate my previously stated opinion that, from what (limited) understanding I have of the Prachatai case, arresting its director simply has to be a misapplication of lese majeste of the exact kind I fear is not only unreasonable, but seemingly unjust (at least on the face of it), and surely, if nothing else, simply an example of the kind that will be tragically and gleefully seized upon by those who have anything but Thailand’s best interests at heart.
I’ve stated on forums my opposition to those who would claim a political message board has a duty to moderate political discussion. I don’t know all the pertinent facts, but from what I understand of the case, she was expected to be the sharp end of the regulator’s spear in terms of fulfilling a requirement to actively monitor and censor political discussion? If that’s the case, it’s a tragic scenario.
If she refused to cooperate with a police investigation, that’s a crime. If she withheld or deleted evidence, or protected the identities of those who broke the law (ignoring whether or not one agrees with that law or not), she would be culpable. But merely refusing to censor? I cannot understand how arresting her is in the spirit of lese majeste, or can possibly be in the best interests of Thailand.
Wow, Still Anonymous, you are getting creative now! Crispin not only close to the palace but also being protected by New Mandala. How about you just rework your original comments and engage with issues of substance rather than concocting nonsense like this. AW
Tarrin is right on ITV where Les is wrong. Another correction: many at the Nation were anti-Thaksin before he came to power. The personal hatred of him was fueled by Thaksin’s attacks on some Nation journalists by using AMLO. What was reasonably useful critical commentary deteriorated into a personalized vendetta and, as JFL says, facts went out the window as they have made stuff up at times.
If Thaksin was “consistent [sic] in his contempt for democracy and legal process” what is the Abhisit government? More political prisoners that under Thaksin and a more thorough job of censorship than under Thaksin.
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Sanitising Thai political history
Suthichai and Sonthi Lim share the same character in that they are always good at talking and blaming others but both always fail in business.
Prachatai manager arrested
In Thailand, only the Orwellians prevail.
In ‘double speak’, ‘reconciliation’ means ‘shut the hell up or get busted’.
Sanitising Thai political history
I wrote Thaksin drove Nation TV off the air at ITV while his cronies tried to buy the company to consolidate his contr0l of the press.
Maybe that wasn’t best said. By company I meant the Nation Group itself, not ITV.
Burma in Limbo, Part 3
Aiontay,
That quote was from Sir Reginald Dorman Smith’s writings I read it many years ago and now I couldn’t find the original source again.
Similar arguments by Clive Christie is in the Book “Turbulent Times and Enduring Peoples – Mountain Minorities in the S.E.Asian Massif”.
The whole chapter 4 was devoted to the Karens. Link to the Google Books is below.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=UxpU8_X4omUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Turbulent+times+and+enduring+peoples&hl=en&ei=QrScTJOFC4LovQPXwsz7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Google and Thailand’s lese majeste law
OK, Jonny, or whatever name you use in other comments, it is clear you are a pure propagandist. There is no value in engaging with you as you are just looking for an excuse to shout your message.
Our views are not aligned. They are opposed. I am pretty sure I had this exact conversation with you on the Bhumipol cult thread some months ago although you must have been using a different name. But it was the identical approach. You said, actually our views are very similar, then pasted in the same hysterical rant you used last time.
You cannot fervently plead with someone to agree with you. You have to use facts to convince them. If you try this, we can talk. But for now, be assured that you rant is convincing no one of anything.
Google and Thailand’s lese majeste law
Hey jonny… your description fits the leaders of the Democrat Party, the Bhumijaithai Party, the ChatThai Pattana Party, the PPT Party, the New Politics Party… which ones are you referring to?
The juxtaposition at the top of the column is Google and lèse majesté. Google’s play with lèse majesté seems regarded as an “aberration”. Google are the neo-liberal “good-guys”.
Check out this Drone Porn site, the “New America Foundation”. They did some “research” and claim that only 30% of the people America’s program of remote controlled, targeted executions in Pakistan are blameless civilians. Even if that were true it would still be a war-crime of truly monstrous dimensions. But its not true. The count on blameless civilians is much higher. The count of those “accused, tried, sentenced, and executed” by a Gameboy on a TV screen is 100%. The Chairman of the Board of the New America Foundation is the Chairman of the Board of Google : Eric Schmidt.
Google is unspeakably evil. Google and authoritarian prosecutions for lèse majesté go together like love and marriage, like a horse and carriage… can’t have one without the other.
Sulak on Buddhism and the red shirts
Thaksin for all his faults, the problematic consequences of his anti-drug and Southern policies, was for more socially engaged than most Socially Engaged Buddhists who see politics as impure and corrupt but doing nothing…
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
Please forgive my increasingly long-winded responses. I’m exhausted from posting far more concise and succinct responses on robertamsterdam.com (100% censorship) and HuffingtonPost (85% censorship).
At least you good people don’t go in for that version of “free speech”.
But in appreciation of that fact, I shall endeavour to heavily edit down future responses in gratitude and a desire to achieve ‘readability’…apologies!
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
@ Albert Park: Did you just attempt to rephrase my correct reporting of the realities on the ground here in Bangkok? But with misattributed and ludicrous hyperbole replacing my balanced, objective statements? In an attempt to frame my valid arguments as nothing but extremist nonsense?
I’m 17 again and in my Politics 101 tutorial! Let’s keep the discussion on an even keel, please?
In response to your ‘question’, no doubt there are a tiny fraction of the Red Shirts who hold Republican sentiments – but at the risk of rudely responding to your non-question with a genuine question, are you genuinely under the mistaken impression that a % greater than (negligible) of the Red Shirts don’t much care for their King? If you are, I assure you that you are very, very incorrect. They adore the King, but they’re conflicted about the ‘elites’ contradiction and they reconcile this contradiction by simply refusing to associate the amataya with the monarchy. It’s almost tragic in a way…a moderate number died in armed conflict fighting something they would gladly die…to defend. Thaksin hijacked their incredibly valid cause, but he pinned the Tail of Injustice onto the incorrect Donkey.
But of course, pinning it onto the correct Donkey would be somewhat counter-productive – he loves injustice and abuses of power…it’s just that he believes he should be one doling the abuses out.
If you choose to ignore this contradiction in their stated positions – as you no doubt will (again) – perhaps you will address the fact that, for all the vaunted rhetoric about the Red Shirts fighting a “class war”, it seems they can’t get enough supporters to stage a peaceful protest that would actually have any impact (which, surprise shock horror omg, is why they resort to armed rioting). If Justin Beiber came to Bangkok, he’d generate a crowd 5-10 times the size of their rioting number of a few months back. This doesn’t exactly impress me as widespread “social upheaval”. Not in a country of 70 million disenfranchised and oppressed proletariats under the heel of a tiny powerful ‘elite’?
Not even with Thaksin-funded ‘allowances’ for attendance….
What the world needs to understand is that the vast majority of Thais are not represented by the Red Shirts. The vast majority certainly hold sympathetic views towards the more valid of the Red Shirts’ concerns re: injustices and double-standards – sympathies which have been heavily eroded by horrors of seeing children used as human shields, and growing frustrations at the Red Shirts increasingly apparent endgame ‘goal’ earlier this year – namely; hijack Bangkok CBD until the government is forced to move them along (66 days of patience, let the historical record show), at which point they attacked armed soldiers with small arms fire, Molotov cocktails, slingshots and home-made rockets…all whilst hiding behind incredibly effective (and cute) barricades (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/377/redshirtsffs.jpg)…hoping they generate a body count Thaksin and Amsterdam can “work with” (after Thaksin gets back from shopping at Louis Vuitton, of course).
The simple fact is that yes, there are incredibly valid social welfare / justice issues which must be addressed – the exact nature of which the vast majority of Thais (even the ever-burgeoning middle class) are – quite – cognisant of. But if Thaksin is your idea of the “go-to” guy to address those concerns, you should also lobby the Catholic Pope to head the UN taskforce to deal with overpopulation issues and the HIV epidemic in Sub-Saharan Africa. The two men are roughly equally qualified for the respective jobs.
In the sense that they’re equally disruptive when they bring their unique brand of ‘solutions’ to the task at hand….
Prachatai manager arrested
For some background on Jiew and Pratchatai, watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajEqGEg-rHU&sns=em by Digital Democracy.
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
Hello Leah Hoyt,
The article I linked to is exactly what was printed on the flier. The facebook page is just a digital copy. Mark Teufel is a Red Shirt supporter out of Germany. He wrote a massive book detailing the Ratchaprasong Rally and the subsequent crackdown. Unfortunately, it’s written in German. We are in in the process of finding volunteers to translate from German to English.
Mr. Crispin, where have you gone? I noticed that you ignored most of the points in my last comment. The truth hurts, doesn’t it?
Sanitising Thai political history
For some time The Nation has been the only quotable source on the ThaiVisa forum due to an economic arrangement. It also swings that blog to a certain style of limited establishment viewpoints. I gave up on the Nation and Thaivisa years ago for their blatant biased reporting and distortion of the truth. Add that Thaivisa through its moderators protects pedophilia but that is another rant.
If The Nation have picked up one decent journalist then good, doesn’t change that it is currently a biased rag, but at least there may be hope. Reminds me too that I haven’t read NTN for a while.
The power of art and symbols against authoritarianism
There’s just a few I think, Nich, so I’ll get them to you shortly
Sanitising Thai political history
Les Abbey,
Prior to the coup, the Nation criticized the Thaksin government for some of its many failings (although they steered clear most of the time of what I consider its really big failings – the murders in Tak Bai and the war on drugs) and Thaksin who is no democrat tried his best to stifle them and other opposition voices, something else they rightly criticized.
So, to some extent they were playing the proper role of the press in a free society, a watchdog and a defender of freedom of expression.
But to get rid of Thaksin, they hitched their wagon to the PAD, the royalists and the army coupsters and became a lapdog and an advocate for the suppression of freedom of speech.
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
So Jonny, all red shirts except Thaksin (is he a red shirt?) love the king. No class struggle, no social upheaval. Only you truly understand “their” angst. Remarkable stuff if it hadn’t already been said by the Abhisit government and their yellow-shirted supporters. Aren’t you somewhat behind the wave?
Burma in Limbo, Part 3
Leaving the British Commonwealth was the main trigger for the Karen rebellion? Care to expand on that point?
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
Andrew, I did engage on the very substantive issue about Crispin’s credibility (he has little in mine and many other peoples’ eyes) and you didn’t publish my comment because you deemed it (incorrectly in my view) as personal abuse.
You also didn’t address my question and chose, instead, to attack me.
So I’ll ask it again – What is yours and Nich’s association with Crispin?
Thanks.
Prachatai manager arrested
I’m going to go out on a limb here – and anyone who doubts my objectivity can refer me to the censors for speaking my mind – and reiterate my previously stated opinion that, from what (limited) understanding I have of the Prachatai case, arresting its director simply has to be a misapplication of lese majeste of the exact kind I fear is not only unreasonable, but seemingly unjust (at least on the face of it), and surely, if nothing else, simply an example of the kind that will be tragically and gleefully seized upon by those who have anything but Thailand’s best interests at heart.
I’ve stated on forums my opposition to those who would claim a political message board has a duty to moderate political discussion. I don’t know all the pertinent facts, but from what I understand of the case, she was expected to be the sharp end of the regulator’s spear in terms of fulfilling a requirement to actively monitor and censor political discussion? If that’s the case, it’s a tragic scenario.
If she refused to cooperate with a police investigation, that’s a crime. If she withheld or deleted evidence, or protected the identities of those who broke the law (ignoring whether or not one agrees with that law or not), she would be culpable. But merely refusing to censor? I cannot understand how arresting her is in the spirit of lese majeste, or can possibly be in the best interests of Thailand.
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
Wow, Still Anonymous, you are getting creative now! Crispin not only close to the palace but also being protected by New Mandala. How about you just rework your original comments and engage with issues of substance rather than concocting nonsense like this. AW
Sanitising Thai political history
Tarrin is right on ITV where Les is wrong. Another correction: many at the Nation were anti-Thaksin before he came to power. The personal hatred of him was fueled by Thaksin’s attacks on some Nation journalists by using AMLO. What was reasonably useful critical commentary deteriorated into a personalized vendetta and, as JFL says, facts went out the window as they have made stuff up at times.
If Thaksin was “consistent [sic] in his contempt for democracy and legal process” what is the Abhisit government? More political prisoners that under Thaksin and a more thorough job of censorship than under Thaksin.