No doubt this government is no saint. No doubt that members of the government are far from clean. No doubt there is censorship, propaganda, use of force, misuse of funds, and alignment with military and elite. That could be said of ANY of the previous governments of Thailand.
Questions that need to be answered by Mr. Giles Ji Ungpakorn about the red shirt movement in 2010:
1. You have spread suggestions that the red shirt movement has long move beyond focusing on the return of Thaksin. Yet, the most recent events show that had Thaksin’s assets not been seized, the red shirts would not have occupied Bangkok for ~2 months. Their protests were intently synchronized with the verdict date for Thaksin’s case and they did vow to protest if the verdict was not in his favor. How has the red shirt movement MOVED ON then?
2. The core leaders of the red shirts in Thailand are:
All known loyalists of Thaksin Shinawatra. And this you claim to be a legitimate rural class and urban poor uprising, and a movement which truly represents democracy? Yet you admit that Thaksin was not democratic as a PM, and his loyalists are still standing on the stage of the protests and calling the shots. Mind you, none of them are rural class and urban poor.
3. On the one hand, you say that the rural class and urban poor make up the red shirts, and that they have a legitimate reason to support Thaksin. I agree, he did much for the people of the north and northeast. But then you still believe he was a human rights abuser. And then you say that the people who make up the red shirts are intelligent people who know what democracy is. So I am confused, why aren’t they intelligent enough to know that Thaksin was no friend to democracy? Why don’t they care that he murdered so many people if their interest is returning democracy to Thailand?
4. You claim that red shirts aren’t paid. My girlfriend is from the north of Thailand and had a good laugh at that one knowing how many times her family has been paid. Never mind though. You insist that all the money comes from community fund raising efforts. Tell me then, why not invest this money and energy into developing the north and northeast sustainably, with schools, education for women and children, etc. instead of crying about how brutal this government is (when the one they want was worse)? All this money, can’t it do some good instead?
5. You claim that the rural class and urban poor were supportive of people and governments like Thaksin’s because there is a vacuum in the left. Wait a minute, I thought you said they are intelligent enough not to be bought or manipulated. I am confused.
6. You’re living in “exile”, in a country you already had a passport and nationality to, and in which you spent the greater portion of your life. I don’t agree with the charges laid against you and in general, but I do know that one cannot fault the current government for a law which has existed long before it came to power. If I am not mistaken, you would have faced the same legal challenge under any government in Thailand prior to this one. You have promoted yourself as THE victim, yet you have not spent much energy on those who actually served time.
7. I have no issue with your views and opinions. Democracy is such. I think many red shirts though would take issue with your views – and yet you call the yellows fascist and call the reds true fighters for democracy. Are you sure most reds are interested in what you’re interested in? Are you sure many of them wouldn’t be happy to see you charged as you have? If there are even SOME red shirts who would be offended with your views, then what’s the point to even bring up the issue of lese majeste when talking about the red shirt movement?
8. I don’t see too many left leaning red shirts in Bangkok. I am sure you have put together a nice network of Marxists in the UK who believe the red shirts are the real thing. You said the solution was for the current government to dissolve the house and call elections. Do tell please…
a. What happens if Abhisit wins those elections? Do the reds respect the outcome and go home? Democracy has been served after all.
b. What happens if Peuh Thai wins those elections and appoints one of its notorious ministers as PM? Do you actually believe that democracy in Thailand has been restored? That freedom of speech will flourish? That the elite will bow down to the commoner? Do you believe that Peuh Thai will change anything?
c. In the case of (b), Do the red shirts continue to campaign for the poor, or have they completed their mission?
9. You have been training people to believe that the reds are mainly from the rural and urban poor, but indeed are a wide mix of people, including those who do not support Thaksin. I can accept that, though I would be more inclined to say most support Thaksin still, than do those who don’t. But then you plainly claim that the yellow shirts are middle class fascists. You paint them as a homogeneous group of elites. Tell me please…is that true? I know many red shirts who are elite (including those standing on the stage) but more personally people I have worked with, and I know yellows who are urban poor and even rural poor. How come they didn’t jump on to the red wagon instead, when the red wagon is supposed to represent them?
10. You say that the Bangkok elite call the poor, stupid peasants. Many do, I’ll give you that. Don’t the poor engage in discrimination towards each other? And at the same time, don’t many poor people in Thailand prefer a rich politician like Thaksin, than a middle class politician like Chuan Leekpai?
11. You say this government is backed and propped up by the army. Tell me, which government in Thailand did not have at least the military backing, including Thaksin, until he upset the status quo with his meddling in the army ranks?
12. If I recall, you also claim that Thaksin’s downfall was a result of the middle class not being able to accept his policies for the poor via the yellow shirts. Yet, I recall that his downfall came as a result of effective campaigning by Sonthi Limthongkul, Thaksin’s former business associate, who spent great energy in publicizing Thaksin as a brutal killer, corrupt business man and traitor to his country? Did not the sale of Shin Corp while he was PM upset a lot of Thais? I don’t remember the rhetoric against the poor until after the coup.
13. What reward are you seeking in all of this? You claim the left is missing in Thailand, and we know you are far left. We know you have a Marxist political party in Thailand. We know that you know Thaksin was effective at winning elections because he focused on the highest populations of Thailand, the north and northeast, where most red shirts hail from. Are you trying to build up for your own bid as PM of Thailand in the future?
14. If you were PM of Thailand, and a group of 100,000 or so protesters filled up the streets, created check points illegally that prevented people from passing freely, created a barricade on major roads that blocked passage, and had elements of armed protesters among them, what would you do? Resign? You expected Abhisit to resign. Yet, you didn’t think Thaksin should have resigned when hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets protesting he resign.
15. Why hasn’t the red shirt movement taken grip of Thailand’s poorest provinces, which happen to be in the south of Thailand?
I believe you have your own interests, and I have nothing wrong with that. I don’t have a problem with your opinions. What I do have a problem with is how you conjure up an image of who the red shirts are to people living outside of Thailand. I have no problem with people who support the reds and understand what the red mandate is. I have no problem with the fact you don’t support the current government, and that you oppose the yellows. But hey, tell the truth about the reds. Presently, the large majority of reds still aspire to have Thaksin restored to power. That’s a fact which you need to acknowledge at some point.
I noticed those few foreign press are doing Rob Amsterdam’s bidding on the Honest Burglar’s behalf. Mr. Amsterdam is just doing his job in this international smear campaign. It is true the Thai government took down many community radio stations because they violated the broadcasting laws of the country. I studied the hate speeches of many of the Red Shirts leaders. What ought to be said, wasn’t say. It’s sure dangerous if these minds with faulty visions were fed with more half-truths and deliberate lies. When the government had enough recordings as evidence all these propanda machines were shut down. Many of these great orators will have to face the court of law for defamatory remarks and incitement of violence. We were able to hear samples of various core Red Shirts leaders encouraging protesters to burn Bkk and city halls upcoutry.
PM AV is quick to adjust his local and international PR strategies. He can’t possibilly arrested thousands of Reds in the coming rallies.
All is quiet on the UDD front after the arrest of Seh Daeng’s righthand man, Khun Surachai Thewarat/MiB.. We did hear Khun Chalerm Yoobamroong’s signature denial, “Puea Thai Party has nothing to do with the Red Shirts!” How is that for the opposition PR..?? What about his closing statement to boost the all-time low Red Shirts’ morale as the main man of the opposition during the recent no-confidence parliamentary debate?
Seriously, if you read all the Thai dailies’ headlines, one can’t help but believe Thai people are free to express. Cynism goes down well with a Thai breakfast of potonggo (Thai donut) and coffee. UDD orators had me addicted months on end. They were really upset with the ammart, Khun Abhisit Vejajiva, Privy Council President Prem Tinasulanond, Khun Sondhi Limthongkun. No parts of their bodies were spared. The most extreme cynic was no other than Khun Jatuporn Phromphun/Ai Too. He got prime time every single day. I could help but to give him the honour from the quote: Someone who found there wasn’t any Santa Claus when he was ten, and is still upset about it. (JG Cozzens)
If Khun Thaksin Shinawatra had truly sacrificed for Thailand and our beloved King, he will be in our History book as PM par excellence. Sadly, he is considered the infamous PM of Thailand/ 2001 – 2006.
“The very words ‘state of emergency,’ therefore, have become misleading. It would probably be accurate to say that by becoming continuous, the state of emergency has ceased to exist… The State of Emergency is Peace.”
Frank G.A. #3: “that Thailand turns into a communist-style state (some say it is already)”, are you kidding? I can’t imagine the Amart adopting communism as a political ideology. Perhaps you meant ‘totalitarian’. If so, I’d agree. It’s already well on the way to developing into a totalitarian fascist state. We have at present not only the suppression of all free expression that is not in accord with the state, but also the the absurd spectacle of a political candidate for an election next weekend locked up so that he can’t campaign! And the perpetrators of this miserable state of affairs call themselves The Democratic Party.
Why do Americans always limit their understanding of totalitarianism to the communists? Surely they’ve heard of Franco, Peron, Pinochet, Idi Amin, etc., etc.
Don’t fool yourselves, God will judge and it is clear that people stubburnly practicing homosexuality will not enter His kingdom. Those of us who belong to Him also have a responsibility from our side to eliminate what stands between us and Him. In the Bible God tells us that if it is an eye, we must plug it out, if an arm, chop it off. It is better to get crippled in heaven than to die forever – the second death.
P.s.
1) I only tell what God already revealed in His Word.
2) I am suffering from SSA and heavily so that I still have nasty encounters with homosexuality, but I’m turning away and reach out for something of everlasting value. I didn’t earn everlasting life by avoiding homosexuality (or any other sin for that matter), Jesus Christ gave it to me and to all of you who belong to Him and with this faith He gave to us, we have the power to turn away from any sin.
You are still trying to have a reasonable discourse with a PAD man… I have given up long ago. They seem to think anything NOT PAD as an SEP (Somebody Else’s Problem) Facts and figures? What is that?
I would go further than you: Thailand has been a dictatorship for 6-7 decades (maybe even more, but my historic knowledge stops there), just see how everybody has to think the same, worship the same, absolutely conform and submit to the model of ‘Thainess’ that is enforced to all.
No dissention is allowed, no thinking differently, and the culture of smiles reminds me of the culture of smiles in stalinist sovietic times propaganda.
Democracy starts with debate, that is people freely discussing different views to find an acceptable compromise to live together.
Does this has a probability of happening in Thailand?
Without the backing of fascistic elements in the Thai elite, big business and military the PAD would be nothing.
But they do have this backing and so became the extra-parliamentary vehicle of the fascistic world view that permeates powerful elements in the Thai military-elite complex.
And the links of this military-elite complex to fascism are as explicit as they are historical.
The PAD were just the most recent manifestation of this.
Also your frankly ridiculous assumption that because the Reds are a large group with a single aim implies they are fascistic is straight out of a 5 year’s old grasp of political realities.
By your same rationale Martin Luther King’s Civil Rights movement would’ve been fascist in that they wouldn’t tolerate racism.
Really StanG, you’ve made a fool of yourself on many occasions but this time you’ve even surpassed your own rather peculiarly asinine limits.
I fear worse than what has already taken place, and not just from any violence-based continued repression or counter-reactions to it. Unfortunately Thailand has demonstrated over decades that democracy will not be allowed to flourish, only raise its head from time to time to get shot at.
What is sadly possible in the not too distant future is that Thailand turns into a communist-style state (some say it is already) where permanent fixtures are erected in the political sphere so that the people will never be given a true democratic voice.
If this works, it usually leads to eventual bloodshed, but in the interim to injustice and misery for millions.
“After achieving their victory over Thaksin PAD has practically disappeared”
I hope you know a political party named “New Politic Party” where most of the party executives are from the PAD and the party policy all reflect the PAD demand and condition, such as 70% select and 30% elect representative. The PAD didn’t go anywhere, they just transformed.
The date of this clip is 18 July 2010 (or yesterday from the time I’m writing this) the location is at Ratchaprasong intersection around noon. I will try to give a rough translation to what everyone was saying, please excuse me if I did any mistake, anyway.
The police was initially said “…. per Emergency decree we would like everyone who participate in this event to gather in peace, if anyone not follow (the emergency decree), or create any disturbance, or cause any violence. The officers would have to do their duty. Everyone is under the same law and under the same practice of law.” Then he continued “At this point, all the shops around Ratchaprasong area has been greatly affect (by the protest). We would like all the business people to be able to recuperate so everyone can live happily together again.” Then Mr. Natee start yelling from the back, and one officer was pointing at him around 1:01 min into the clip.
About 1:08 Mr. Natee said something about “Murder” and “I saw” but I couldn’t understand his would sentence. Anyway Mr. Natee start speaking again at 1:14, he said “I saw this place got burn down, and I saw people being shot at” some people in the crowd yell “yes” as he said. Then he continued “My voice is real” as he finished saying that the police officer start repeating what he said earlier so Mr. Natee then said “HELLO, HELLO, I would like your corporation as well, if you want to reconcile with us, want to hear what we have to say then let us speak let us express (our thought)” Then he continue “Don’t close our mouth, don’t close our mouth, let us speak, let us express” after he finish a group of undercover polices (or soldiers?) surrounded him and carry him away. As they approaching the prisoner bus some one ask “Is he armed?” then Mr. Natee said “Me? Sure I got one” (with sarcastic tone).
As they approached the side of Intercontinental Hotel, Mr. Natee continued “Everyone look, I’ve come alone, I didn’t do anything wrong. ” As the officers are looking for a place to put him he said “I’ve come alone, I didn’t break any law, I did not coming with 5 people, I did not come with 6 people, I came alone. This is out of the line ( from 3:20-3:25 not sure how to translate this part and I didn’t understand what he was saying)”. Anyway most of the later part all he said was “I’ve come lone”. Hope this help you a bit.
Michael – 7,
I just check the link, I can access the picture normally, maybe you should try again.
The guy who was arrested is Nathee Sornwaree, a leading NGO/activist working on the homeless issue around Sanamluang (Issarachon foundation). Shortly after he was arrested, he was brought to the police station, apparently the police didn’t want to make a further scene so he was merely charged for public nuisance (for making too loud noise) with 100 baht fine, and then let go.
According to recent source in FB, the Ratchaprasong sign is said to having been removed this morning!
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Reconciliation, Thai style
Tarrin #10, I just did…same thing. Maybe it’s just my ISP? Mai pen rai…
Reconciliation, Thai style
# 7 michael: can’t access the FB from europe as well.
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the inside
No doubt this government is no saint. No doubt that members of the government are far from clean. No doubt there is censorship, propaganda, use of force, misuse of funds, and alignment with military and elite. That could be said of ANY of the previous governments of Thailand.
Questions that need to be answered by Mr. Giles Ji Ungpakorn about the red shirt movement in 2010:
1. You have spread suggestions that the red shirt movement has long move beyond focusing on the return of Thaksin. Yet, the most recent events show that had Thaksin’s assets not been seized, the red shirts would not have occupied Bangkok for ~2 months. Their protests were intently synchronized with the verdict date for Thaksin’s case and they did vow to protest if the verdict was not in his favor. How has the red shirt movement MOVED ON then?
2. The core leaders of the red shirts in Thailand are:
Veera Musikapong
Nattawut Siakhuea
Arisman Pongruangrong
All known loyalists of Thaksin Shinawatra. And this you claim to be a legitimate rural class and urban poor uprising, and a movement which truly represents democracy? Yet you admit that Thaksin was not democratic as a PM, and his loyalists are still standing on the stage of the protests and calling the shots. Mind you, none of them are rural class and urban poor.
3. On the one hand, you say that the rural class and urban poor make up the red shirts, and that they have a legitimate reason to support Thaksin. I agree, he did much for the people of the north and northeast. But then you still believe he was a human rights abuser. And then you say that the people who make up the red shirts are intelligent people who know what democracy is. So I am confused, why aren’t they intelligent enough to know that Thaksin was no friend to democracy? Why don’t they care that he murdered so many people if their interest is returning democracy to Thailand?
4. You claim that red shirts aren’t paid. My girlfriend is from the north of Thailand and had a good laugh at that one knowing how many times her family has been paid. Never mind though. You insist that all the money comes from community fund raising efforts. Tell me then, why not invest this money and energy into developing the north and northeast sustainably, with schools, education for women and children, etc. instead of crying about how brutal this government is (when the one they want was worse)? All this money, can’t it do some good instead?
5. You claim that the rural class and urban poor were supportive of people and governments like Thaksin’s because there is a vacuum in the left. Wait a minute, I thought you said they are intelligent enough not to be bought or manipulated. I am confused.
6. You’re living in “exile”, in a country you already had a passport and nationality to, and in which you spent the greater portion of your life. I don’t agree with the charges laid against you and in general, but I do know that one cannot fault the current government for a law which has existed long before it came to power. If I am not mistaken, you would have faced the same legal challenge under any government in Thailand prior to this one. You have promoted yourself as THE victim, yet you have not spent much energy on those who actually served time.
7. I have no issue with your views and opinions. Democracy is such. I think many red shirts though would take issue with your views – and yet you call the yellows fascist and call the reds true fighters for democracy. Are you sure most reds are interested in what you’re interested in? Are you sure many of them wouldn’t be happy to see you charged as you have? If there are even SOME red shirts who would be offended with your views, then what’s the point to even bring up the issue of lese majeste when talking about the red shirt movement?
8. I don’t see too many left leaning red shirts in Bangkok. I am sure you have put together a nice network of Marxists in the UK who believe the red shirts are the real thing. You said the solution was for the current government to dissolve the house and call elections. Do tell please…
a. What happens if Abhisit wins those elections? Do the reds respect the outcome and go home? Democracy has been served after all.
b. What happens if Peuh Thai wins those elections and appoints one of its notorious ministers as PM? Do you actually believe that democracy in Thailand has been restored? That freedom of speech will flourish? That the elite will bow down to the commoner? Do you believe that Peuh Thai will change anything?
c. In the case of (b), Do the red shirts continue to campaign for the poor, or have they completed their mission?
9. You have been training people to believe that the reds are mainly from the rural and urban poor, but indeed are a wide mix of people, including those who do not support Thaksin. I can accept that, though I would be more inclined to say most support Thaksin still, than do those who don’t. But then you plainly claim that the yellow shirts are middle class fascists. You paint them as a homogeneous group of elites. Tell me please…is that true? I know many red shirts who are elite (including those standing on the stage) but more personally people I have worked with, and I know yellows who are urban poor and even rural poor. How come they didn’t jump on to the red wagon instead, when the red wagon is supposed to represent them?
10. You say that the Bangkok elite call the poor, stupid peasants. Many do, I’ll give you that. Don’t the poor engage in discrimination towards each other? And at the same time, don’t many poor people in Thailand prefer a rich politician like Thaksin, than a middle class politician like Chuan Leekpai?
11. You say this government is backed and propped up by the army. Tell me, which government in Thailand did not have at least the military backing, including Thaksin, until he upset the status quo with his meddling in the army ranks?
12. If I recall, you also claim that Thaksin’s downfall was a result of the middle class not being able to accept his policies for the poor via the yellow shirts. Yet, I recall that his downfall came as a result of effective campaigning by Sonthi Limthongkul, Thaksin’s former business associate, who spent great energy in publicizing Thaksin as a brutal killer, corrupt business man and traitor to his country? Did not the sale of Shin Corp while he was PM upset a lot of Thais? I don’t remember the rhetoric against the poor until after the coup.
13. What reward are you seeking in all of this? You claim the left is missing in Thailand, and we know you are far left. We know you have a Marxist political party in Thailand. We know that you know Thaksin was effective at winning elections because he focused on the highest populations of Thailand, the north and northeast, where most red shirts hail from. Are you trying to build up for your own bid as PM of Thailand in the future?
14. If you were PM of Thailand, and a group of 100,000 or so protesters filled up the streets, created check points illegally that prevented people from passing freely, created a barricade on major roads that blocked passage, and had elements of armed protesters among them, what would you do? Resign? You expected Abhisit to resign. Yet, you didn’t think Thaksin should have resigned when hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets protesting he resign.
15. Why hasn’t the red shirt movement taken grip of Thailand’s poorest provinces, which happen to be in the south of Thailand?
I believe you have your own interests, and I have nothing wrong with that. I don’t have a problem with your opinions. What I do have a problem with is how you conjure up an image of who the red shirts are to people living outside of Thailand. I have no problem with people who support the reds and understand what the red mandate is. I have no problem with the fact you don’t support the current government, and that you oppose the yellows. But hey, tell the truth about the reds. Presently, the large majority of reds still aspire to have Thaksin restored to power. That’s a fact which you need to acknowledge at some point.
Freedom of expression in Thailand
I noticed those few foreign press are doing Rob Amsterdam’s bidding on the Honest Burglar’s behalf. Mr. Amsterdam is just doing his job in this international smear campaign. It is true the Thai government took down many community radio stations because they violated the broadcasting laws of the country. I studied the hate speeches of many of the Red Shirts leaders. What ought to be said, wasn’t say. It’s sure dangerous if these minds with faulty visions were fed with more half-truths and deliberate lies. When the government had enough recordings as evidence all these propanda machines were shut down. Many of these great orators will have to face the court of law for defamatory remarks and incitement of violence. We were able to hear samples of various core Red Shirts leaders encouraging protesters to burn Bkk and city halls upcoutry.
PM AV is quick to adjust his local and international PR strategies. He can’t possibilly arrested thousands of Reds in the coming rallies.
All is quiet on the UDD front after the arrest of Seh Daeng’s righthand man, Khun Surachai Thewarat/MiB.. We did hear Khun Chalerm Yoobamroong’s signature denial, “Puea Thai Party has nothing to do with the Red Shirts!” How is that for the opposition PR..?? What about his closing statement to boost the all-time low Red Shirts’ morale as the main man of the opposition during the recent no-confidence parliamentary debate?
Seriously, if you read all the Thai dailies’ headlines, one can’t help but believe Thai people are free to express. Cynism goes down well with a Thai breakfast of potonggo (Thai donut) and coffee. UDD orators had me addicted months on end. They were really upset with the ammart, Khun Abhisit Vejajiva, Privy Council President Prem Tinasulanond, Khun Sondhi Limthongkun. No parts of their bodies were spared. The most extreme cynic was no other than Khun Jatuporn Phromphun/Ai Too. He got prime time every single day. I could help but to give him the honour from the quote: Someone who found there wasn’t any Santa Claus when he was ten, and is still upset about it. (JG Cozzens)
If Khun Thaksin Shinawatra had truly sacrificed for Thailand and our beloved King, he will be in our History book as PM par excellence. Sadly, he is considered the infamous PM of Thailand/ 2001 – 2006.
Freedom of expression in Thailand
“The very words ‘state of emergency,’ therefore, have become misleading. It would probably be accurate to say that by becoming continuous, the state of emergency has ceased to exist… The State of Emergency is Peace.”
Adapted from George Orwell’s “1984”
Freedom of expression in Thailand
Frank G.A. #3: “that Thailand turns into a communist-style state (some say it is already)”, are you kidding? I can’t imagine the Amart adopting communism as a political ideology. Perhaps you meant ‘totalitarian’. If so, I’d agree. It’s already well on the way to developing into a totalitarian fascist state. We have at present not only the suppression of all free expression that is not in accord with the state, but also the the absurd spectacle of a political candidate for an election next weekend locked up so that he can’t campaign! And the perpetrators of this miserable state of affairs call themselves The Democratic Party.
Why do Americans always limit their understanding of totalitarianism to the communists? Surely they’ve heard of Franco, Peron, Pinochet, Idi Amin, etc., etc.
Confronting Karen homophobia in Burma
Don’t fool yourselves, God will judge and it is clear that people stubburnly practicing homosexuality will not enter His kingdom. Those of us who belong to Him also have a responsibility from our side to eliminate what stands between us and Him. In the Bible God tells us that if it is an eye, we must plug it out, if an arm, chop it off. It is better to get crippled in heaven than to die forever – the second death.
P.s.
1) I only tell what God already revealed in His Word.
2) I am suffering from SSA and heavily so that I still have nasty encounters with homosexuality, but I’m turning away and reach out for something of everlasting value. I didn’t earn everlasting life by avoiding homosexuality (or any other sin for that matter), Jesus Christ gave it to me and to all of you who belong to Him and with this faith He gave to us, we have the power to turn away from any sin.
Big questions for Thailand
Hai Tarrin,
You are still trying to have a reasonable discourse with a PAD man… I have given up long ago. They seem to think anything NOT PAD as an SEP (Somebody Else’s Problem) Facts and figures? What is that?
Freedom of expression in Thailand
Exactly, Frank.
I would go further than you: Thailand has been a dictatorship for 6-7 decades (maybe even more, but my historic knowledge stops there), just see how everybody has to think the same, worship the same, absolutely conform and submit to the model of ‘Thainess’ that is enforced to all.
No dissention is allowed, no thinking differently, and the culture of smiles reminds me of the culture of smiles in stalinist sovietic times propaganda.
Democracy starts with debate, that is people freely discussing different views to find an acceptable compromise to live together.
Does this has a probability of happening in Thailand?
doesn’t look so…
Outrageous restrictions on free campaigning
The Dems don’t have a say in letting Korkaew out to campaign. That’s the province of the courts, incredible as it may seem.
Big questions for Thailand
StanG
Without the backing of fascistic elements in the Thai elite, big business and military the PAD would be nothing.
But they do have this backing and so became the extra-parliamentary vehicle of the fascistic world view that permeates powerful elements in the Thai military-elite complex.
And the links of this military-elite complex to fascism are as explicit as they are historical.
The PAD were just the most recent manifestation of this.
Also your frankly ridiculous assumption that because the Reds are a large group with a single aim implies they are fascistic is straight out of a 5 year’s old grasp of political realities.
By your same rationale Martin Luther King’s Civil Rights movement would’ve been fascist in that they wouldn’t tolerate racism.
Really StanG, you’ve made a fool of yourself on many occasions but this time you’ve even surpassed your own rather peculiarly asinine limits.
Freedom of expression in Thailand
A communist-style state? Are you one of those who calls the neoliberal/neocon Obama a socialist as well, Frank?
Or are you just, as the Thais so often do, using “communist” like “Khmer”… an all-purpose word with no real meaning to demonize opponents with?
You mean totalitarian, right?
Freedom of expression in Thailand
I fear worse than what has already taken place, and not just from any violence-based continued repression or counter-reactions to it. Unfortunately Thailand has demonstrated over decades that democracy will not be allowed to flourish, only raise its head from time to time to get shot at.
What is sadly possible in the not too distant future is that Thailand turns into a communist-style state (some say it is already) where permanent fixtures are erected in the political sphere so that the people will never be given a true democratic voice.
If this works, it usually leads to eventual bloodshed, but in the interim to injustice and misery for millions.
Big questions for Thailand
StanG – 36
“After achieving their victory over Thaksin PAD has practically disappeared”
I hope you know a political party named “New Politic Party” where most of the party executives are from the PAD and the party policy all reflect the PAD demand and condition, such as 70% select and 30% elect representative. The PAD didn’t go anywhere, they just transformed.
Reconciliation, Thai style
Arthurian – 4
The date of this clip is 18 July 2010 (or yesterday from the time I’m writing this) the location is at Ratchaprasong intersection around noon. I will try to give a rough translation to what everyone was saying, please excuse me if I did any mistake, anyway.
The police was initially said “…. per Emergency decree we would like everyone who participate in this event to gather in peace, if anyone not follow (the emergency decree), or create any disturbance, or cause any violence. The officers would have to do their duty. Everyone is under the same law and under the same practice of law.” Then he continued “At this point, all the shops around Ratchaprasong area has been greatly affect (by the protest). We would like all the business people to be able to recuperate so everyone can live happily together again.” Then Mr. Natee start yelling from the back, and one officer was pointing at him around 1:01 min into the clip.
About 1:08 Mr. Natee said something about “Murder” and “I saw” but I couldn’t understand his would sentence. Anyway Mr. Natee start speaking again at 1:14, he said “I saw this place got burn down, and I saw people being shot at” some people in the crowd yell “yes” as he said. Then he continued “My voice is real” as he finished saying that the police officer start repeating what he said earlier so Mr. Natee then said “HELLO, HELLO, I would like your corporation as well, if you want to reconcile with us, want to hear what we have to say then let us speak let us express (our thought)” Then he continue “Don’t close our mouth, don’t close our mouth, let us speak, let us express” after he finish a group of undercover polices (or soldiers?) surrounded him and carry him away. As they approaching the prisoner bus some one ask “Is he armed?” then Mr. Natee said “Me? Sure I got one” (with sarcastic tone).
As they approached the side of Intercontinental Hotel, Mr. Natee continued “Everyone look, I’ve come alone, I didn’t do anything wrong. ” As the officers are looking for a place to put him he said “I’ve come alone, I didn’t break any law, I did not coming with 5 people, I did not come with 6 people, I came alone. This is out of the line ( from 3:20-3:25 not sure how to translate this part and I didn’t understand what he was saying)”. Anyway most of the later part all he said was “I’ve come lone”. Hope this help you a bit.
Michael – 7,
I just check the link, I can access the picture normally, maybe you should try again.
Reconciliation, Thai style
The guy who was arrested is Nathee Sornwaree, a leading NGO/activist working on the homeless issue around Sanamluang (Issarachon foundation). Shortly after he was arrested, he was brought to the police station, apparently the police didn’t want to make a further scene so he was merely charged for public nuisance (for making too loud noise) with 100 baht fine, and then let go.
According to recent source in FB, the Ratchaprasong sign is said to having been removed this morning!
Reconciliation, Thai style
This picture, sent by a reader, is probaby also relevant here. As the reader put it, “the most well guarded piece of real estate in Thailand”.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Reconciliation, Thai style
Tarrin #6, re. your F/B link: “This content is currently unavailable.” Further evidence of Thai-style reconciliation!
Big questions for Thailand
After achieving their victory over Thaksin PAD has practically disappeared instead of imposing their “fascist” order on the country.
To be fair, in case or red victory I don’t think they would impose any kind of special democracy either, just enough to give Thaksin what he wants.
But even that is going to be brutal considering the opposition to any lenience towards Thaksin.
Thai Institutions: Judiciary
Meanwhile in Singapore they’ve arrested a British author for a book about death penalty
“attorney general’s office says the book casts doubt on the impartiality, integrity and independence of Singapore’s judiciary.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10680143
They’d have jailed half of NM commentariat if it was here.