It’s gone rather quiet. I think the numbers being quoted by the DSI about the amount of money changing hands during the protest has put some into a state of shock.
I especially like some of the Puea Thai MPs who had more in than what went out. I wonder what they told Thaksin?
Nobody – What financial “revelations” are you referring to? The figures released by the DSI and published in the BKK Post today? How would you expect one to perform “detailed analysis” with the information given?
StanG #48 :
Re – “Not long time ago Prem suggested that they created a new division, based in Korat, if I’m not mistaken.”
I’m pretty certain this new division was to be stationed at Khon Kaen, Korat already having two huge military bases staffed over decades with rock-solid Prem loyalists.
The new division was to be a cavalry (i.e. tank) division like that within which Prem himself long ago served.
Prem was reported as saying that he wanted to see this new division established before the end of his life, and to be an important part of his legacy.
What surprised me, was that such a division had not been established years ago, given the very long tradition of Isaarn rebellion, and the crucial role of Thailand’s two other tank divisions in numerous coups.
Cant see the red movement being de-Thaksinified. The financial revelations make it seem he is more in control of everything than anybody thought or maybe that should read more than many people like to spin. Quite staggering really. I look forward to some detailed analysis.
Still it is good to see the leaders of the people’s movement being well paid for their “sacrifices”.
One good that could come of it would be that the poor learn they need to find their own leaders from among their own rather than rely on a bunch of parachuted in mercenaries who have not exactly fessed up to being paid what a rural farmer would view as a fortune and for not a very good job at that, or at least not avery good job for the poor althopugh the verdict must remain out on what the person remunerating them would think of the job done
It’s unfortunate that worldwide trade unions are in a very weak state. With what looks like a long lasting recession they are needed more than ever. Maybe this will be the impetus for a resurgence in union growth. In the meantime the state sector unions in Thailand need support especially when the politicians have been dividing up all the goodies as with the airport link railway.
When Surayud was the army chief he planned to reduce the army size.
Not long time ago Prem suggested that they created a new division, based in Korat, if I’m not mistaken.
In both cases they didn’t even consult the civilians in the Cabinet though technically they probably need the Cabinet consent, for funding issues if nothing else.
Apart from major moves like that, I don’t think Cabinet oversees their “lucky draws” and so they can recruit more or less soldiers each year as needed.
because he was and may again be capable of organising a real threat to the wealth and power of the military/amart?
but any move toward democracy will also pose such a threat, so why single out Thaksin?
if democratic processes are in place, free and fair elections scheduled on a regular basis with everyone accepting the results and the military/amart subservient to the government, why is Thaksin any different from any other person that may aspire to party and government leadership?
Titinan, why cling to the ideas popularised by Sondki Lim?
When did I say the Army chief has no control over the army? I think you just want to argue until you can’t read properly anymore, I said the Army chief has no control over the “size” of the army. If the Army chief have the control on the issue then damn if I am the chief of army I would have enlisted every able man in Thailand and make the largest army in the world.
The history of the last coup is that even after taking power the generals need democracy, and they have no desire to run the country themselves.
You mean the democracy that all the opposing political parties that the army doesn’t support can be ban on spot if they dare to challenge the establishment power?? that is not democracy, that fascism. Even if they have no desire to run the country but they had suck a good portion of the tax payers money into their own pocket, where do you think Sondhi, a C10 level civil servant get the money to buy his Rolex or setting up his own political party from???
Peter, I am not disputing the existence of the World Bank funded dams from the 1960s – I’m sorry if my article obscured that. My point was historical – those dams were first proposed in 1902 by Van Der Heide. The benefits were as clear then as they were for your team. They were rejected by the Chulalongkorn government in favour of irrigating the Rangsit area, because irrigating Rangsit enabled the increased rent of the irrigated fields to be captured by various aristocratic landowning factions at court (I am principally drawing on the historical and economic analytical work of David Feeny here). The gap between 1902 and 1960 represents a massive foregone opportunity for Thai farmers, who were effectively impoverished in favour of the landlord class. That it took a World Bank developmental program as part of a general 1960s anticommunist effort to bring about a project that Thailand could well have afforded itself at the turn of the century is a clear indication of the long term priorities of the Bangkok elite.
I wish to correct the impression given in this article regarding agricultural development of the Cenral Plains.
The World Bank funded the Yanhee Dam on the Ping River and the Chainat Diversion Dam on the Chao Phya River both of which were completed in the early 1960’s. Following that an Australian Colombo Plan Team commenced work at Chainat conducting important research for the Central Plains together with the Thai Ministry of Agriculture counterparts. This agricultural reseach provided recommendations for multiple cropping on the whole of the Central Plains which had previously been a rice monoculture using low yielding native varieties. The Colombo Plan Team comprised of four Australian experts and I worked there for four years as one of these team members. The extensive irrigation network extended over the whole of the Central Plains and was not concentrated on Rangsit. This project turned out to be one of the most beneficial agricultural project in Thailand at the time – affecting all farmers on the whole of the Central Plain (both large and small farmers) including those in the lowland areas closer to Bangkok.
Like to add my congratulations and appreciation of your efforts in starting, and keeping going, New Mandala.
Whilst I’ve found myself disagreeing with some of the postings (and many as of the comments, especially during the recent red rally), I still find myself drawn to the site, as you guys at least try to provide deeper insights and get a more vigourous debate going.
Keep up the good work and looking forward to the next year! Let’s hope both Thailand and Myanmar can take some steps towards a better future for their people…
Following up on the observations in 6 and 7… apparently Natthakarn Sakoondarachart was run out of Thailand by Assoc Prof Dr. Pinmanee Promsutthirakat at Silpakorn and the Yellow fascists.
I learned that she was awarded a scholarship in another country in this posting linked by PPT : Why I don’t love the King?.
This essay is a calm and seriously reflective piece by a mature Thai woman, a graduate of Silpakorn herself, in 1989 or 1990, I believe, and I recommend it to all.
It did my heart good to read it. I recommend it not as an antidote, but as a palliative to the (in)actions of Silpakorn’s present, pusillanimous “occupants”.
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Thitinan on Thailand’s “Dead-End”
Nobody – 3
It’s gone rather quiet. I think the numbers being quoted by the DSI about the amount of money changing hands during the protest has put some into a state of shock.
I especially like some of the Puea Thai MPs who had more in than what went out. I wonder what they told Thaksin?
Thitinan on Thailand’s “Dead-End”
Nobody – What financial “revelations” are you referring to? The figures released by the DSI and published in the BKK Post today? How would you expect one to perform “detailed analysis” with the information given?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
UPDATE:
With the help of two Nation journalists I have managed to identify the man with the gut shot. His name was Channarong Polsrila, 45 years old. He died.
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
StanG #48 :
Re – “Not long time ago Prem suggested that they created a new division, based in Korat, if I’m not mistaken.”
I’m pretty certain this new division was to be stationed at Khon Kaen, Korat already having two huge military bases staffed over decades with rock-solid Prem loyalists.
The new division was to be a cavalry (i.e. tank) division like that within which Prem himself long ago served.
Prem was reported as saying that he wanted to see this new division established before the end of his life, and to be an important part of his legacy.
What surprised me, was that such a division had not been established years ago, given the very long tradition of Isaarn rebellion, and the crucial role of Thailand’s two other tank divisions in numerous coups.
New Mandala turns four
Many happy returns
Thitinan on Thailand’s “Dead-End”
Cant see the red movement being de-Thaksinified. The financial revelations make it seem he is more in control of everything than anybody thought or maybe that should read more than many people like to spin. Quite staggering really. I look forward to some detailed analysis.
Still it is good to see the leaders of the people’s movement being well paid for their “sacrifices”.
One good that could come of it would be that the poor learn they need to find their own leaders from among their own rather than rely on a bunch of parachuted in mercenaries who have not exactly fessed up to being paid what a rural farmer would view as a fortune and for not a very good job at that, or at least not avery good job for the poor althopugh the verdict must remain out on what the person remunerating them would think of the job done
Thitinan on Thailand’s “Dead-End”
Yes, why reject Thaksin?
To me, those of his rivals always say Thaksin is the problem to the nation. But in fact, it is the problem to the Democrat, and those elites.
After kicking him out by using force, they always say “stay out of politics then things will get better”.
I think the current crisis has proven for 4 years, that is the real problem is those elites. Not Thaksin himself.
Thai institutions: Unions
It’s unfortunate that worldwide trade unions are in a very weak state. With what looks like a long lasting recession they are needed more than ever. Maybe this will be the impetus for a resurgence in union growth. In the meantime the state sector unions in Thailand need support especially when the politicians have been dividing up all the goodies as with the airport link railway.
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
When Surayud was the army chief he planned to reduce the army size.
Not long time ago Prem suggested that they created a new division, based in Korat, if I’m not mistaken.
In both cases they didn’t even consult the civilians in the Cabinet though technically they probably need the Cabinet consent, for funding issues if nothing else.
Apart from major moves like that, I don’t think Cabinet oversees their “lucky draws” and so they can recruit more or less soldiers each year as needed.
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Just ask Al Capone, it’s always the money trail that does you in.
Worth having a look at what the DSI is leaking today.
http://bangkokpost.com/news/politics/38876/rally-billions-uncovered
Thitinan on Thailand’s “Dead-End”
hmmm… why reject Thaksin?
because he was and may again be capable of organising a real threat to the wealth and power of the military/amart?
but any move toward democracy will also pose such a threat, so why single out Thaksin?
if democratic processes are in place, free and fair elections scheduled on a regular basis with everyone accepting the results and the military/amart subservient to the government, why is Thaksin any different from any other person that may aspire to party and government leadership?
Titinan, why cling to the ideas popularised by Sondki Lim?
New Mandala turns four
Felicitations! All you efforts are much appreciated Nich and Andrew and also all of those who contribute comments to NM.
Highlights of year four:
Photo journalism, Book reviews (Craig Reynolds’ and the TLC series), Greg Lopez’s Malaysia reviews, the vodcast/podcast series.
Hoping to see in year 5:
More of the same, plus… vodcast series on Burma/Myanmar in the lead up to the elections.
New Mandala turns four
Four songs to cheer
Four roses for the years
And a toast for the next forty
Happy happy birthday.
New Mandala turns four
Happy Birthday New Mandala, you are the last beacon of hope for alternative media in English in this troubled land.
Keep up the good works.
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
StanG – 45
When did I say the Army chief has no control over the army? I think you just want to argue until you can’t read properly anymore, I said the Army chief has no control over the “size” of the army. If the Army chief have the control on the issue then damn if I am the chief of army I would have enlisted every able man in Thailand and make the largest army in the world.
The history of the last coup is that even after taking power the generals need democracy, and they have no desire to run the country themselves.
You mean the democracy that all the opposing political parties that the army doesn’t support can be ban on spot if they dare to challenge the establishment power?? that is not democracy, that fascism. Even if they have no desire to run the country but they had suck a good portion of the tax payers money into their own pocket, where do you think Sondhi, a C10 level civil servant get the money to buy his Rolex or setting up his own political party from???
Here lies a toppled god – Bangkok
Peter, I am not disputing the existence of the World Bank funded dams from the 1960s – I’m sorry if my article obscured that. My point was historical – those dams were first proposed in 1902 by Van Der Heide. The benefits were as clear then as they were for your team. They were rejected by the Chulalongkorn government in favour of irrigating the Rangsit area, because irrigating Rangsit enabled the increased rent of the irrigated fields to be captured by various aristocratic landowning factions at court (I am principally drawing on the historical and economic analytical work of David Feeny here). The gap between 1902 and 1960 represents a massive foregone opportunity for Thai farmers, who were effectively impoverished in favour of the landlord class. That it took a World Bank developmental program as part of a general 1960s anticommunist effort to bring about a project that Thailand could well have afforded itself at the turn of the century is a clear indication of the long term priorities of the Bangkok elite.
Here lies a toppled god – Bangkok
I wish to correct the impression given in this article regarding agricultural development of the Cenral Plains.
The World Bank funded the Yanhee Dam on the Ping River and the Chainat Diversion Dam on the Chao Phya River both of which were completed in the early 1960’s. Following that an Australian Colombo Plan Team commenced work at Chainat conducting important research for the Central Plains together with the Thai Ministry of Agriculture counterparts. This agricultural reseach provided recommendations for multiple cropping on the whole of the Central Plains which had previously been a rice monoculture using low yielding native varieties. The Colombo Plan Team comprised of four Australian experts and I worked there for four years as one of these team members. The extensive irrigation network extended over the whole of the Central Plains and was not concentrated on Rangsit. This project turned out to be one of the most beneficial agricultural project in Thailand at the time – affecting all farmers on the whole of the Central Plain (both large and small farmers) including those in the lowland areas closer to Bangkok.
New Mandala turns four
Like to add my congratulations and appreciation of your efforts in starting, and keeping going, New Mandala.
Whilst I’ve found myself disagreeing with some of the postings (and many as of the comments, especially during the recent red rally), I still find myself drawn to the site, as you guys at least try to provide deeper insights and get a more vigourous debate going.
Keep up the good work and looking forward to the next year! Let’s hope both Thailand and Myanmar can take some steps towards a better future for their people…
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
Following up on the observations in 6 and 7… apparently Natthakarn Sakoondarachart was run out of Thailand by Assoc Prof Dr. Pinmanee Promsutthirakat at Silpakorn and the Yellow fascists.
I learned that she was awarded a scholarship in another country in this posting linked by PPT : Why I don’t love the King?.
This essay is a calm and seriously reflective piece by a mature Thai woman, a graduate of Silpakorn herself, in 1989 or 1990, I believe, and I recommend it to all.
It did my heart good to read it. I recommend it not as an antidote, but as a palliative to the (in)actions of Silpakorn’s present, pusillanimous “occupants”.
New Mandala turns four
Well done Andrew and Nich. I hope you can, and expect you will, keep it open to all shades of opinion.