The article speaks of “ill-founded investigations, unjustified detentions, unsound accusations of terrorism”.
What is the basis for these allegations? People have been killed. People have been charged. People will be tried before the courts and acquitted – or not.
This is a rather presumptuous case of ‘trial by media’ considering the number of shootings, bombings and arson involved. Worst of all, on Thaksin: “He is not a terrorist”. Well, ok so his lawyer says that too, and he should know, he’s defended war criminals before 🙂
This reads like a remotely-written propaganda piece with an ideological axe to grind and no actual grounding in reality.
thanks for this, important topic, will be with us for a long time into the future
I for one would like to be alerted if some more detail is translated to english, thanks to anyone that will do it
one thing I would like to see is if there are any others items that will end up in military pockets, eg you mention 1.1 which sounds like (most of) it will supplement 2.2
in fact 1.1 sounds like a whole lot of repression
Athita thanks for your comment sounds right on…
the big challenge for democracy is to persist in trimming the military, not just their budget but their involvement in business and politics entirely. (did I just scrape through under the “hot topic” prime directive barrier?)
Thanks for re-posting this. Freedom of speech and the free exchange of ideas by free thinking people. Whatever next?
I have some questions:
”But powerful military men and politicians found it useful to cultivate the royal charisma.”
Why?
Why did first Phibun, then (Pote?) Sarit and Thanom choose to rehabilitate the king? Certainly, Sarit and Thanom were powerful enough not to need his visible presence to support their regimes.
Did the US ‘suggest’ this as part of its military financial support/ anti communist package?
Didn’t the circle of people that Sondhi is talking about, the palace-linked types, get a chance at administering things from September 2006 through December 2007, much in the fashion suggested? I don’t recall many people patting them on the back for a job well done — why would next time be any different?
I can’t speak directly for Central World as it was in the distance, but as far as the fires around Rama IV and Klong Toey are concerned, I know this is fiction, because I watched them burn, and my wife works in one of the buildings that was attacked.
The fires on Rama IV / Klong Toey started about 20 minutes after the red leaders surrendered at Ratchaprasong. That area was not under the control of the army at the time, the outlying mobs went berserk after they heard the news.
It’s probably pretty obvious that I feel frustrated and appalled at such stories. But to people elsewhere – how do you know what’s true and what’s not? I guess that’s the value of propaganda. People that don’t see things firsthand will always doubt.
I’m happy to send a few photos to the email address on your site or to anyone else that wants them. If you are interested, please post another comment here or perhaps the admin will be kind enough to relay it.
remember
Abhisit stated, Ithink to the Oxford union, that he entered politics to try and prevent what happened in 1992 and that itshould never ever again happen.
Nothing this man says can be believed or effectively the opposite is always true.
Please, please can the west wake up and deal withthese tyrants. Cut of the aid money. They siphon off 30%! We have to stop thinking of this state as a democracy. It’s like Iran it’s a theocracy. A theocracy for the rich.
A rather technical way to check if you are blocked is to look at the Thai internet map and see if your service either doesn’t go through the main servers, or has a direct connection to a server outside of thailand:
Excellent point you’ve made. I think I’m a big fan of NM now.
Let me get some background here so NM readers could get better understanding about Thai government annual budget policy.
The budget is like an ice cream stick, it has been licked by those politicians again and again and the rest is for tax payers.
The current government coalition parties led by the Democrat, and new-born Bhumjai Thai Party, have been provided good stake of budget.
I just want to focus on the Defense, they give huge budget for the army, for what? To buy hi-tech weapons to murder innocent people?
During Thaksin’s era, he had made a mistake. He changed policy of buying those weapons, tanks, fighter jets, etc. Instead of by having some broker to make the deal, he used G2G, barter trade policy, i.e., frozen chicken in exchange of tanks.
The commission’s gone. Who got commission? Well, not too hard to imagine.
That’s why, it is a reason to topple him.
What happened after the coup? The Defense got budget increased. Even in the Samak’s Administration. Samak did not want to have problem with the army, so he gave them “enough”.
Gen. Chavalit, while was Chief of the Army, planned to downsize the army, enhancing the efficiency. What happened to him? He is suspected for not loyal to the monarchy.
As I said, the Thai budget is from banks loan, (though Abhisit sought foreign loans but no one gave credit, so he loaned from his allied local banks. Of course, the tax payer, eventually, pay back the loan even if his party would be no longer in position).
A reason he gave during the talk to the Red Shirt, he wanted to stay in power for a while in order to pass the budget bill. Well, we all know why.
David Brown # 263.
You say: ‘my comment above effectively says that Thailand is under a military/elites dictatorship with parliament providing a “play of Democracy” ‘
Are you trying to tell everyone it’s ever been ever different – give or take (or replace) a few manifestations of the same thing??
I suppose you’re now going to try and tell us under Thaksin it was a democracy as opposed to the cleptocracy/plutocracy it really was (??)
The BPost this morning ran a headline, PM: Red shirts set the fires, leading to an article of near=zero information content.
There were reports that fire fighters had tried to put out the blazes at Siam Square and CentralWorld but they came under fire from a group of armed men at the Siam Paragon shopping centre, he said.
Puea Thai Party MP for Bangkok Vicharn Meenchainant yesterday said the burned buildings were in areas where the military was in control.
Checkpoints had been set up in the area to keep people from entering, the opposition MP said.
Mr Vicharn said not even MPs were allowed into the restricted areas.
I deduce from the headline that someone else has alleged that the Thai military set the fires. That was my first reaction when I heard of their scale.
Does anyone have any more information on allegations that if was the Thai Military and/or the owners of the buildings themselves in Consumerland who torched them?
I live in Khon Kaen and first noticed a problem this morning when I could still open Nick’s photo essay on NM, but not the subsequent comments. This afternoon I cannot open any of the thread.
I have always found the Government’s censureship of news and information related to the latest political protest abhorrent. However, for this practice not only to be continued, but actually to be broadened during what the PM declares to be a period of nation reconciliation is profoundly disturbing.
The timing of the censorship of Nick’s photo essay during the Parliamentary ‘no-confidence’ debate also increases my belief that CRES and the military are truly stuck to find a credible excuse for the event described by Nick.
More and more I keep being reminded of that famous quote attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller.
I wouldn’t take it personally. You well know the law and the predictable manner in which the Thai authorities will react to criticism of the monarchy. I’m just surprised they didn’t go for the whole domain.
ISP implementation of bans is half-hearted and poorly coordinated now that CAT is no longer the sole gateway.
Sutachai has now been released, according to a journalist friend of mine on F/B.
Just checked on B Post breaking news – nothing, as far as I can see – & Nation, which says he was released 20:30 Mon. “He said no charges were filed against him and that he was detained as a precaution to stop him from violating the emergency rule even though he had no involvement nor linkage to the protest.”
for “р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ” or “р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М”
can we just say “monarchy”?
“the institution”, or the (uggh) “monarchical institution” are just so unnecessary when you already have a perfectly good shorter word.
And, you have the added bonus: if you write about it every day, as we all should, this translation may even help delay the onset of RSI in your fingers.
Don’t let the р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ cause us any more misery than they already are!
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Thailand’s terrorists
The article speaks of “ill-founded investigations, unjustified detentions, unsound accusations of terrorism”.
What is the basis for these allegations? People have been killed. People have been charged. People will be tried before the courts and acquitted – or not.
This is a rather presumptuous case of ‘trial by media’ considering the number of shootings, bombings and arson involved. Worst of all, on Thaksin: “He is not a terrorist”. Well, ok so his lawyer says that too, and he should know, he’s defended war criminals before 🙂
This reads like a remotely-written propaganda piece with an ideological axe to grind and no actual grounding in reality.
Is 2 trillion baht populist enough?
thanks for this, important topic, will be with us for a long time into the future
I for one would like to be alerted if some more detail is translated to english, thanks to anyone that will do it
one thing I would like to see is if there are any others items that will end up in military pockets, eg you mention 1.1 which sounds like (most of) it will supplement 2.2
in fact 1.1 sounds like a whole lot of repression
Athita thanks for your comment sounds right on…
the big challenge for democracy is to persist in trimming the military, not just their budget but their involvement in business and politics entirely. (did I just scrape through under the “hot topic” prime directive barrier?)
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy (re-post)
Andrew,
Thanks for re-posting this. Freedom of speech and the free exchange of ideas by free thinking people. Whatever next?
I have some questions:
”But powerful military men and politicians found it useful to cultivate the royal charisma.”
Why?
Why did first Phibun, then (Pote?) Sarit and Thanom choose to rehabilitate the king? Certainly, Sarit and Thanom were powerful enough not to need his visible presence to support their regimes.
Did the US ‘suggest’ this as part of its military financial support/ anti communist package?
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
Didn’t the circle of people that Sondhi is talking about, the palace-linked types, get a chance at administering things from September 2006 through December 2007, much in the fashion suggested? I don’t recall many people patting them on the back for a job well done — why would next time be any different?
Is 2 trillion baht populist enough?
One man’s ‘populist policy’ is another man’s right to an education.
Strategic alignment: Thailand and the US
John
I can’t speak directly for Central World as it was in the distance, but as far as the fires around Rama IV and Klong Toey are concerned, I know this is fiction, because I watched them burn, and my wife works in one of the buildings that was attacked.
The fires on Rama IV / Klong Toey started about 20 minutes after the red leaders surrendered at Ratchaprasong. That area was not under the control of the army at the time, the outlying mobs went berserk after they heard the news.
It’s probably pretty obvious that I feel frustrated and appalled at such stories. But to people elsewhere – how do you know what’s true and what’s not? I guess that’s the value of propaganda. People that don’t see things firsthand will always doubt.
I’m happy to send a few photos to the email address on your site or to anyone else that wants them. If you are interested, please post another comment here or perhaps the admin will be kind enough to relay it.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Nick
sorry. fantastic job as ever.
Be safe. We need you.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
remember
Abhisit stated, Ithink to the Oxford union, that he entered politics to try and prevent what happened in 1992 and that itshould never ever again happen.
Nothing this man says can be believed or effectively the opposite is always true.
Please, please can the west wake up and deal withthese tyrants. Cut of the aid money. They siphon off 30%! We have to stop thinking of this state as a democracy. It’s like Iran it’s a theocracy. A theocracy for the rich.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
A rather technical way to check if you are blocked is to look at the Thai internet map and see if your service either doesn’t go through the main servers, or has a direct connection to a server outside of thailand:
http://internet.nectec.or.th/webstats/internetmap.current.iir?Sec=internetmap_current
It seems that government universities always get the blocked sites, but some private providers avoid this
Is 2 trillion baht populist enough?
Excellent point you’ve made. I think I’m a big fan of NM now.
Let me get some background here so NM readers could get better understanding about Thai government annual budget policy.
The budget is like an ice cream stick, it has been licked by those politicians again and again and the rest is for tax payers.
The current government coalition parties led by the Democrat, and new-born Bhumjai Thai Party, have been provided good stake of budget.
I just want to focus on the Defense, they give huge budget for the army, for what? To buy hi-tech weapons to murder innocent people?
During Thaksin’s era, he had made a mistake. He changed policy of buying those weapons, tanks, fighter jets, etc. Instead of by having some broker to make the deal, he used G2G, barter trade policy, i.e., frozen chicken in exchange of tanks.
The commission’s gone. Who got commission? Well, not too hard to imagine.
That’s why, it is a reason to topple him.
What happened after the coup? The Defense got budget increased. Even in the Samak’s Administration. Samak did not want to have problem with the army, so he gave them “enough”.
Gen. Chavalit, while was Chief of the Army, planned to downsize the army, enhancing the efficiency. What happened to him? He is suspected for not loyal to the monarchy.
As I said, the Thai budget is from banks loan, (though Abhisit sought foreign loans but no one gave credit, so he loaned from his allied local banks. Of course, the tax payer, eventually, pay back the loan even if his party would be no longer in position).
A reason he gave during the talk to the Red Shirt, he wanted to stay in power for a while in order to pass the budget bill. Well, we all know why.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
David Brown # 263.
You say: ‘my comment above effectively says that Thailand is under a military/elites dictatorship with parliament providing a “play of Democracy” ‘
Are you trying to tell everyone it’s ever been ever different – give or take (or replace) a few manifestations of the same thing??
I suppose you’re now going to try and tell us under Thaksin it was a democracy as opposed to the cleptocracy/plutocracy it really was (??)
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy (re-post)
Ha ha ha ha ha…
Well played. Nice to see it back. Let’s see how long the ICT goons take to twig it’s back up, then block this version.
Truth to power!
Strategic alignment: Thailand and the US
The BPost this morning ran a headline, PM: Red shirts set the fires, leading to an article of near=zero information content.
I deduce from the headline that someone else has alleged that the Thai military set the fires. That was my first reaction when I heard of their scale.
Does anyone have any more information on allegations that if was the Thai Military and/or the owners of the buildings themselves in Consumerland who torched them?
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy (re-post)
[…] […]
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
I live in Khon Kaen and first noticed a problem this morning when I could still open Nick’s photo essay on NM, but not the subsequent comments. This afternoon I cannot open any of the thread.
I have always found the Government’s censureship of news and information related to the latest political protest abhorrent. However, for this practice not only to be continued, but actually to be broadened during what the PM declares to be a period of nation reconciliation is profoundly disturbing.
The timing of the censorship of Nick’s photo essay during the Parliamentary ‘no-confidence’ debate also increases my belief that CRES and the military are truly stuck to find a credible excuse for the event described by Nick.
More and more I keep being reminded of that famous quote attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
I wouldn’t take it personally. You well know the law and the predictable manner in which the Thai authorities will react to criticism of the monarchy. I’m just surprised they didn’t go for the whole domain.
ISP implementation of bans is half-hearted and poorly coordinated now that CAT is no longer the sole gateway.
Sutachai on hunger strike
Sutachai has now been released, according to a journalist friend of mine on F/B.
Just checked on B Post breaking news – nothing, as far as I can see – & Nation, which says he was released 20:30 Mon. “He said no charges were filed against him and that he was detained as a precaution to stop him from violating the emergency rule even though he had no involvement nor linkage to the protest.”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Suthachai-released-from-emergency-detention-30130617.html
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
I’m using loxinfo at my office, both pages got block, however I checked back at home using 3BB they are still accessible.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
Blocked for me too at Mahidol University, Salaya.
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy (re-post)
Minor point, a personal translation irritation:
for “р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ” or “р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М”
can we just say “monarchy”?
“the institution”, or the (uggh) “monarchical institution” are just so unnecessary when you already have a perfectly good shorter word.
And, you have the added bonus: if you write about it every day, as we all should, this translation may even help delay the onset of RSI in your fingers.
Don’t let the р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ cause us any more misery than they already are!