The problem with Thailand is the educational gap between those who run CRES and Professor Sutachai Yimprasert is rather large.
Professor Sutachai has a doctoral degree from England, while Aphisit only has a general education at master degree level from England. Being a full professor of History at Chulalongkorn University, his academic contribution is profound and with high level of scholarship. Obviously, Aphisit does not have sufficient intellectual background to comprehend the classic work of Prof. Sutachai.
As for the military side, it gets even worst. For example, the spoke person of CRES, р╣Др╕Бр╣Ир╣Ир╣Ир╕нр╕╣р╕╣, has no clues whatsoever in the value of Arts and Humanity. Lack of liberal arts educational background, the military is unable to distinguish between dirt and jewel.
р╣Др╕Бр╣Ир╣Ир╣Ир╕нр╕╣р╕╣ and Aphisit are only interested in being popular among women on the Facebook. Thailand has immature and mediocre run the country. As a result, Aphisit’s regime put good brain and good person in jail.
General Khattiya was no fool. He visited Thaksin Shinawatra several times at Dubai and Thaksin Shinawatra obviously do no believe General Khattiya to be a fool either – because Thaksin hired the General.
I believe General Khattiya was deadly serious about his agenda for a full-blown civil war. The man has a mission from Thaksin to accomplish and the man kept bragging on the foreign press about his civil war mission.
Do you think those M79 grenade/RPG random attacks against Bangkok were ‘overblown bluster and bravado’ JohnH? Those were ‘full-blown’ grenade/RPG attacks, eh?
Burma has long been a target of Western protesters who argue boycotts because of the 1990s epection when the army simply disregarded the election results. However the Burmese democracy leader is a more sympathetic figure than Thailand’s Thaksin. It’s well-documented that Thailand’s king favours the Burmese military regime and opposes the democratic movement. I wonder whether the same people who urge us to boycott Burma because of what happened to democracy in the 1990s will start urging us to boycott Thailand on similar grounds, for all that has happened since 2005. Or should I cynically assume that a billionaire like Thaksin, with all his baggage of corruption, will put off Western protesters for whom such an association would be more than they can stomach?
talking of redshirt “terrorists”, snipers and elite tactics….
the behaviour of the Thai Red Cross and Chulalongkorn Hospital in:
– harbouring military snipers (see Porntips rapidly suppressed report
about evidence found on the 7/8th floors) and
– facilitated the public outcry of interference in their operations and
– who refused to assist redshirt casualties
was despicable and even more horrifying when we look at the royal and high prestige elite figures that are the patrons, board and executive members of the Red Cross organisation. Even our favourite royal princess was involved in visiting the hospital first to discuss moving the Sangharad and second to “encourage the staff”.
this of course at the same time as the military were positioning their
snipers along the overhead rail and tall buildings including at the
hospital for the purpose of “taking out terrorists” as announced by Abhisit.
I am waiting for the CRES or the government to explain what information or rules of engagement they provided their snipers so they could identify the “terrorists” that they were supposed to take out.
Were they told to avoid the medicos, journalists and unarmed red and non-red civilians many of whom that they shot and killed?
Are the CRES and government guilty of giving faulty rules of engagement or were the snipers incompetent or perhaps encouraged during early morning visits by royals or other elites to be excessively brutal in their targetting?
[…] The idea of Muang Thai, “the land of the free,” has for years been expressed in its most extreme form as the freedom to exploit nature, environment, women, children. Yet conventional wisdom had it that a shared sense of identity would keep the social fabric from fraying beyond repair. This, too, has become a highly questionable proposition, particularly with ailing KingBhumibol Adulyadej apparently unable to intervene. It appears that Buddhism, the monarchy and the country’s long history as an independent regional player with a distinct language and culture are no longer enough to contain Thailand’s underlying fissures. ?Via New Mandala […]
Chanchai above. You’re correct, absolutely right, that the red shirts have no ‘terrosrist’ wing…as we all know, it was the army that fired grenades into the BTS Sala Daeng station to discredit and make the red shirts look bad!!In chess, we protect the king, I suggest you do the same!
Yesterday’s press conference with PM Abhisit is being broadcast on Channel 11 in English at this moment. There is also a Thai translation.
After Abhisit’s opening summary and comments, ambassadors are now questioning him about the various aspects of the recent crisis.
Abhisit and the government are certainly going to great lengths to establish their transparency and legitimacy over the events in question.
I do think that for this debate to continue here, we must see the transcript or video – if there is one – before NM loses any claim to
legitimacy for this particular thread, and suffers yet another crisis of confidence from its readers.
So the government burnt down Central World to get rid of the hundreds of bodies they didn’t want added to the running body count. Is that right Jim? Would 188 make that much difference to the government than 88 do you think? It was you who said he was a teacher at Chula with Giles wasn’t it? Something doesn’t sound right there to me. Were you a foreign student at Chula perhaps?
Now I ran into the boys trying to set fire to the SET building on Rachada Pisek the other week. I saw them also trying to break the CCTV cameras on the MRT station entrances. What I didn’t see was them throwing any bodies into that building. I guess also what I didn’t see was any army looking fellows leading them. What I did see was a bunch of cops parked outside the Queen Sirikit Exhibition building not feeling brave enough to take on the motorbike boys. Don’t really blame them. Jim do you think I missed something? What really happened there that I didn’t see?
Just out of interest, how many bodies do you think the government disappeared during last year’s Songkram? That’s a bit of a test in my way of thinking of seeing what’s propaganda and what’s genuine comment.
Don’t you think it very strange that despite Major General Khattiya’s specialist military background and, I imagine, close insight into the workings and machinations of the Thai army, he still chose to openly parade around the red shirt encampment, apparently oblivious to any idea that he might be a target for assassination?
Equally, as a military man he knew that ”…to turn the marathon antigovernment protest on the streets of Bangkok into a full-blown civil war.” would require more than a ”ragtag militia.”
Either he was a an arrogant fool for ignoring basic military practice i.e don’t make yourself a target for the enemy, or he genuinely thought he was safe.
I personally put his ‘civil war’ comments down to simple overblown ego-centred bluster and bravado.
Please click below to hear what a Thai rescue worker said on the shootings at Wat Patum, where the 25-year-old Red Cross volunteer nurse Ms Kamonket was shot dead by snipers:
I found your comment interesting but unconvincing, and in my experience, although the primary fact behind the uprising was the illegal ousting of their elected representative, one needs to bear in mind they elected him precisely because he was prepared to address the economic disparity which just about everyone in Isaan and the North of Thailand knows about and resent like hell.
This is embedded in your own post when you note “What pissed them off was that they were told that Thailand was a democracy, they voted for the candidate that was willing to throw them some bones and who used the media to create an image that appealed to a rural voter, and then that elected man, Thaksin, was unceremoniously tossed out by the old guard. ”
Which is true of course, however the issues of how Thaksin was ousted (repeatedly, either in person or in proxy), and the reason he was so enthusiastically voted in in the first place are inextricably linked and cannot be usefully isolated.
“He (General Khattiya) says he raised his ragtag militia for one last mission: to turn the marathon antigovernment protest on the streets of Bangkok into a full-blown civil war.”
“I won’t leave until Mr. Thaksin tells me to” – rogue commander says he has his own authority stemming directly from Mr. Thaksin.
. . .On the front lines of the active center of the protest, Maj. Gen. Khattiya’s word is law. Suspected infiltrators are escorted out of the encampment with a nod of his head, and barricades are erected or moved at his say-so. He struts around his personal redoubt inside the larger Red Shirt camp, wearing military fatigues in open view of police and soldiers, even though he was recently freed on bail after being charged for illegally possessing firearms. He sometimes ventures further into public areas, especially when television crews are around, and makes a performance of inspecting the sharpened bamboo stakes and kerosene-soaked tires that fortify the protesters’ camp. . .
Before and during the Reds protests/rebellion in Apr-May 2010, Thaksin Shinawatra never publicly disowned General Khattiya.
Seems that some PAD thinks Seh Daeng was actually a double agent planted by the army in the Redshirts movement.
Imagine my surprise when I found that @vihok had defended the man against accusations. That he was 100% loyal to the Monarchy and is the same color as his PAD daughter.
Ozorro obviously has never view any PAD facebook groups/doesn’t remember the government house lengthy siege/Mysterious death of Jaab’s car-bomb on Oct7/never listen to any PAD radio station/Etc.
May I remind Ozorro that the PAD never face Live bullets/APCs/Tanks in all of their protest since their conception at the hand of Sondhi.
PADs are aggressors, they never had to take what they dish out before. Not now, not ever if their backers has anything to say about it.
Ozorro, you do know that there is a hideous PAD Facebook group centered on ‘fantasizing’ over Red shirts corpse, right?
If not, then you’re sorely lacking in information.
When I read all of comment I’ve got realized something about what’s going on and what is the fact for your idea.
I’m so confused about what is going on with Simonsay or another people I just want you to think on this situation on Nick report that Civilian has got shot from Military and they don’t have any weapon, this thing we try to find who will made responsibility about this situation they got shot you understand about this? please do not think from the past what happen from the past becuase of you don’t know the truth absolutely sure you just got this information from news and report , that’s right? please do not think everything from yourself open your mind and please focus on what’s happen with me and what’s happen with who have got shot and died.
You’ll think every situation that you give example this from Thaksin gov. But if you think from other side who can control Military, absolutely sure Thanksin can not. He got no power from this, cuase military don’t want to be under Thanksin hands.
PS> from my comment #190 If Red Shirt have this Black shirt or a lot of Weapon and Ammo in this mob, Why do they use when Military storm to they protest area?
I want to say Why don’t they use (just only one single word meaning is change)
Andrew and Nich: Will you be providing a translation to English? Just kidding! Your Aussie accents are charming. A very interesting presentation. Looking forward to more.
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Sutachai on hunger strike
The problem with Thailand is the educational gap between those who run CRES and Professor Sutachai Yimprasert is rather large.
Professor Sutachai has a doctoral degree from England, while Aphisit only has a general education at master degree level from England. Being a full professor of History at Chulalongkorn University, his academic contribution is profound and with high level of scholarship. Obviously, Aphisit does not have sufficient intellectual background to comprehend the classic work of Prof. Sutachai.
As for the military side, it gets even worst. For example, the spoke person of CRES, р╣Др╕Бр╣Ир╣Ир╣Ир╕нр╕╣р╕╣, has no clues whatsoever in the value of Arts and Humanity. Lack of liberal arts educational background, the military is unable to distinguish between dirt and jewel.
р╣Др╕Бр╣Ир╣Ир╣Ир╕нр╕╣р╕╣ and Aphisit are only interested in being popular among women on the Facebook. Thailand has immature and mediocre run the country. As a result, Aphisit’s regime put good brain and good person in jail.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
General Khattiya was no fool. He visited Thaksin Shinawatra several times at Dubai and Thaksin Shinawatra obviously do no believe General Khattiya to be a fool either – because Thaksin hired the General.
I believe General Khattiya was deadly serious about his agenda for a full-blown civil war. The man has a mission from Thaksin to accomplish and the man kept bragging on the foreign press about his civil war mission.
Do you think those M79 grenade/RPG random attacks against Bangkok were ‘overblown bluster and bravado’ JohnH? Those were ‘full-blown’ grenade/RPG attacks, eh?
Water shortages in Burma
Burma has long been a target of Western protesters who argue boycotts because of the 1990s epection when the army simply disregarded the election results. However the Burmese democracy leader is a more sympathetic figure than Thailand’s Thaksin. It’s well-documented that Thailand’s king favours the Burmese military regime and opposes the democratic movement. I wonder whether the same people who urge us to boycott Burma because of what happened to democracy in the 1990s will start urging us to boycott Thailand on similar grounds, for all that has happened since 2005. Or should I cynically assume that a billionaire like Thaksin, with all his baggage of corruption, will put off Western protesters for whom such an association would be more than they can stomach?
Thailand’s terrorists
talking of redshirt “terrorists”, snipers and elite tactics….
the behaviour of the Thai Red Cross and Chulalongkorn Hospital in:
– harbouring military snipers (see Porntips rapidly suppressed report
about evidence found on the 7/8th floors) and
– facilitated the public outcry of interference in their operations and
– who refused to assist redshirt casualties
was despicable and even more horrifying when we look at the royal and high prestige elite figures that are the patrons, board and executive members of the Red Cross organisation. Even our favourite royal princess was involved in visiting the hospital first to discuss moving the Sangharad and second to “encourage the staff”.
this of course at the same time as the military were positioning their
snipers along the overhead rail and tall buildings including at the
hospital for the purpose of “taking out terrorists” as announced by Abhisit.
I am waiting for the CRES or the government to explain what information or rules of engagement they provided their snipers so they could identify the “terrorists” that they were supposed to take out.
Were they told to avoid the medicos, journalists and unarmed red and non-red civilians many of whom that they shot and killed?
Are the CRES and government guilty of giving faulty rules of engagement or were the snipers incompetent or perhaps encouraged during early morning visits by royals or other elites to be excessively brutal in their targetting?
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
[…] The idea of Muang Thai, “the land of the free,” has for years been expressed in its most extreme form as the freedom to exploit nature, environment, women, children. Yet conventional wisdom had it that a shared sense of identity would keep the social fabric from fraying beyond repair. This, too, has become a highly questionable proposition, particularly with ailing KingBhumibol Adulyadej apparently unable to intervene. It appears that Buddhism, the monarchy and the country’s long history as an independent regional player with a distinct language and culture are no longer enough to contain Thailand’s underlying fissures. ?Via New Mandala […]
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Chanchai above. You’re correct, absolutely right, that the red shirts have no ‘terrosrist’ wing…as we all know, it was the army that fired grenades into the BTS Sala Daeng station to discredit and make the red shirts look bad!!In chess, we protect the king, I suggest you do the same!
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
Yesterday’s press conference with PM Abhisit is being broadcast on Channel 11 in English at this moment. There is also a Thai translation.
After Abhisit’s opening summary and comments, ambassadors are now questioning him about the various aspects of the recent crisis.
Abhisit and the government are certainly going to great lengths to establish their transparency and legitimacy over the events in question.
I do think that for this debate to continue here, we must see the transcript or video – if there is one – before NM loses any claim to
legitimacy for this particular thread, and suffers yet another crisis of confidence from its readers.
Sutachai on hunger strike
UPDATE:
According to Khao-sod, the CRES has promised to return textbooks to Suthachai today. However, his lawyer said that he was unable to confirm whether it’s true, since the CRES doesn’t allow visiting on weekend. He will have to wait until tomorrow, Monday 31 May, to see Suthachai.
http://www.khaosod.co.th/view_news.php?newsid=TUROd01ERXdNVE13TURVMU13PT0=§ionid=TURNd01RPT0=&day=TWpBeE1DMHdOUzB6TUE9PQ==
Thailand’s terrorists
Disillusioned Observer asks, “And what is the response from the privileged of Thailand?” Hold a fire sale! http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255305280020
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
Jim Taylor – 10
So the government burnt down Central World to get rid of the hundreds of bodies they didn’t want added to the running body count. Is that right Jim? Would 188 make that much difference to the government than 88 do you think? It was you who said he was a teacher at Chula with Giles wasn’t it? Something doesn’t sound right there to me. Were you a foreign student at Chula perhaps?
Now I ran into the boys trying to set fire to the SET building on Rachada Pisek the other week. I saw them also trying to break the CCTV cameras on the MRT station entrances. What I didn’t see was them throwing any bodies into that building. I guess also what I didn’t see was any army looking fellows leading them. What I did see was a bunch of cops parked outside the Queen Sirikit Exhibition building not feeling brave enough to take on the motorbike boys. Don’t really blame them. Jim do you think I missed something? What really happened there that I didn’t see?
Just out of interest, how many bodies do you think the government disappeared during last year’s Songkram? That’s a bit of a test in my way of thinking of seeing what’s propaganda and what’s genuine comment.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Ozzoro:
Don’t you think it very strange that despite Major General Khattiya’s specialist military background and, I imagine, close insight into the workings and machinations of the Thai army, he still chose to openly parade around the red shirt encampment, apparently oblivious to any idea that he might be a target for assassination?
Equally, as a military man he knew that ”…to turn the marathon antigovernment protest on the streets of Bangkok into a full-blown civil war.” would require more than a ”ragtag militia.”
Either he was a an arrogant fool for ignoring basic military practice i.e don’t make yourself a target for the enemy, or he genuinely thought he was safe.
I personally put his ‘civil war’ comments down to simple overblown ego-centred bluster and bravado.
Sutachai on hunger strike
Please click below to hear what a Thai rescue worker said on the shootings at Wat Patum, where the 25-year-old Red Cross volunteer nurse Ms Kamonket was shot dead by snipers:
http://www.prachatai2.info/journal/2010/05/29680
Also, a report by a journalist, who was himself shot and injured, on her funeral services:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/shocked-family-bids-farewell-to-medic-killed-in-red-shirt-sanctuary-1983922.html
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
@Johpa Deumlaokeng (12):
I found your comment interesting but unconvincing, and in my experience, although the primary fact behind the uprising was the illegal ousting of their elected representative, one needs to bear in mind they elected him precisely because he was prepared to address the economic disparity which just about everyone in Isaan and the North of Thailand knows about and resent like hell.
This is embedded in your own post when you note “What pissed them off was that they were told that Thailand was a democracy, they voted for the candidate that was willing to throw them some bones and who used the media to create an image that appealed to a rural voter, and then that elected man, Thaksin, was unceremoniously tossed out by the old guard. ”
Which is true of course, however the issues of how Thaksin was ousted (repeatedly, either in person or in proxy), and the reason he was so enthusiastically voted in in the first place are inextricably linked and cannot be usefully isolated.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Gen. Khattiya, a Red leader hardliner, gave an interview with Asian Wall Street Journal in May2010.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870386670457522377218163460…
“He (General Khattiya) says he raised his ragtag militia for one last mission: to turn the marathon antigovernment protest on the streets of Bangkok into a full-blown civil war.”
“I won’t leave until Mr. Thaksin tells me to” – rogue commander says he has his own authority stemming directly from Mr. Thaksin.
. . .On the front lines of the active center of the protest, Maj. Gen. Khattiya’s word is law. Suspected infiltrators are escorted out of the encampment with a nod of his head, and barricades are erected or moved at his say-so. He struts around his personal redoubt inside the larger Red Shirt camp, wearing military fatigues in open view of police and soldiers, even though he was recently freed on bail after being charged for illegally possessing firearms. He sometimes ventures further into public areas, especially when television crews are around, and makes a performance of inspecting the sharpened bamboo stakes and kerosene-soaked tires that fortify the protesters’ camp. . .
Before and during the Reds protests/rebellion in Apr-May 2010, Thaksin Shinawatra never publicly disowned General Khattiya.
Sutachai on hunger strike
Today, Khaosod news has an article.
It said, “Thai people demand “The Truth.”
There should be an investigation upon what’s the fact.
Who gave order? Who shot? Whose responsibility?
However, in time of crisis and with an abnormal and digress regime like this, Thai people cannot expect to know “The Truth.”
р╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 29 р╕Юр╕др╕йр╕ар╕▓р╕Др╕б р╕Ю.р╕и. 2553 р╕Ыр╕╡р╕Чр╕╡р╣И 20 р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣И 7121 р╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕кр╕Фр╕гр╕▓р╕вр╕зр╕▒р╕Щ
р╕Вр╕нр╕Др╕╖р╕Щ”р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З”
р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕Ър╕кр╕зр╕Щр╕кр╕нр╕Ър╕кр╕зр╕Щр╕Щр╕│р╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕нр╕нр╕Бр╕бр╕▓р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Ыр╕гр╕▓р╕Бр╕П
р╣Гр╕Др╕гр╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕З р╣Гр╕Др╕гр╕вр╕┤р╕З р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕бр╕╡р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ьр╕┤р╕Фр╕Кр╕нр╕Ъ?
р╣Гр╕Щр╕вр╕▓р╕бр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╕зр╕┤р╕Бр╕др╕Х р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ыр╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕нр╕Зр╕зр╕┤р╕Ыр╕гр╕┤р╕Х р╕Бр╕ер╣Др╕Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Ж р╕Юр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣И
р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕лр╕зр╕▒р╕Зр╣Др╕Фр╣Й р╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щ “р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З”!?
Thai style democracy?
-Tarrin
Thank you for your elaboration on this… I understand your thinking now.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Seems that some PAD thinks Seh Daeng was actually a double agent planted by the army in the Redshirts movement.
Imagine my surprise when I found that @vihok had defended the man against accusations. That he was 100% loyal to the Monarchy and is the same color as his PAD daughter.
I wonder how Ozorro thinks of Seh Daeng now?
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Ozorro obviously has never view any PAD facebook groups/doesn’t remember the government house lengthy siege/Mysterious death of Jaab’s car-bomb on Oct7/never listen to any PAD radio station/Etc.
May I remind Ozorro that the PAD never face Live bullets/APCs/Tanks in all of their protest since their conception at the hand of Sondhi.
PADs are aggressors, they never had to take what they dish out before. Not now, not ever if their backers has anything to say about it.
Ozorro, you do know that there is a hideous PAD Facebook group centered on ‘fantasizing’ over Red shirts corpse, right?
If not, then you’re sorely lacking in information.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
When I read all of comment I’ve got realized something about what’s going on and what is the fact for your idea.
I’m so confused about what is going on with Simonsay or another people I just want you to think on this situation on Nick report that Civilian has got shot from Military and they don’t have any weapon, this thing we try to find who will made responsibility about this situation they got shot you understand about this? please do not think from the past what happen from the past becuase of you don’t know the truth absolutely sure you just got this information from news and report , that’s right? please do not think everything from yourself open your mind and please focus on what’s happen with me and what’s happen with who have got shot and died.
You’ll think every situation that you give example this from Thaksin gov. But if you think from other side who can control Military, absolutely sure Thanksin can not. He got no power from this, cuase military don’t want to be under Thanksin hands.
PS> from my comment #190 If Red Shirt have this Black shirt or a lot of Weapon and Ammo in this mob, Why do they use when Military storm to they protest area?
I want to say Why don’t they use (just only one single word meaning is change)
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
Andrew and Nich: Will you be providing a translation to English? Just kidding! Your Aussie accents are charming. A very interesting presentation. Looking forward to more.