Sad to say, I must agree with most of this article. Thailand’s efforts at democratisation, even the much lauded 1997 constitution, have been a total failure. It is basically rule by “Jhao Pao” outside of Bangkok.
If the local godfather doesn’t like your politics; it’s curtains for you.
Rarely mentioned in any of the current discourse about Thailand is the role of the “third pillar” of the nation; Buddhism. Even the monkhood is no longer respected by thinking Thais and from a reading of the vernacular press this is not surprising. In the eyes of many, the wats seem to have become centres of skulduggery, buggery and thuggery. All together a very sad state of affairs.
There are no red shirt terrorists in Thailand. (I would even suggest that there are no terrorists in the South of the country either, but that’s another story.)
Many here are wasting too much time and effort arguing and disagreeing over the definition, use and application of the word by the current government.
It doesn’t take too much to see this for what it really is:
A contrived liberty taken with the language designed to provoke outrage, anger, fear, even hatred amongst the Thai people against those accused of terrorist acts.
And of course, at a stroke, this simple linguistic convenience also legitimizes anything the government chooses to do to counter and neutralise this perceived threat to Thailand’s internal security.
Of course this is wrong, but that’s not the point. It’s done and that is that.
Also, the global community has no legitimate right to interfer in any of Thailand’s (sovereign) problems, including an internal terrorist threat, no matter how shaky the government’s assertion that one exists may seem to us and others.
I am far more worried about the government propaganda and censorship strategies and programmes that will become more and more apparent in the media and education system.
Look, one week on – watch any free to air TV channel. Mind control for the masses.
Furthermore, by nature and by necessity , counter terrorism operations are covert and subject to complete media censorship.
The disappearances and killings will begin; however, you, we just won’t know about them.
Agree, I well remember the Thaksin era with the outrageous impunity and corruption.
So do I. So do we all. The difference was Thaksin could be unelected. The present regime has foreclosed that option.
…their leadership includes many who called for violence, who clearly turned a blind eye to violence being committed on their behalf…
These thugs attained “leadership” position as Thaksin did, by jumping in front of the parade and waving their arms. Unlike Thaksin they failed to deliver any goods at all. The present regime and its MSM identified anointed them leaders, as you seem to, because it suited their purposes.
Thousands of peaceful protesters have been betrayed not just by a political system that has ignored and harmed them, but also betrayed by leaders and their violent henchmen who brought forth ENTIRELY PREDICTABLE violence from the state in a cynical effort to promote the narrow political goals of those leaders.
No one is to blame for raping the girl who “was asking for it” but the rapist. No one is to blame for these murders but the murderers.
Isaarn wants to break-away and join Laos, Patani wants to break away and join a more Muslim Malaysia.
I agree with Nicholas Farrelly. I don’t think either of these assertions is true. But you can believe anything you want, no problem here.
The state and its leadership are facing a full-blown crisis of legitimacy.
Yeah. The “leadership” is illegitimate and has been since 19 September 2006. Even when an elected government was nominally in power during that time it had no power. There will be no legitimate government in Thailand ’til one is elected. The sooner the better.
Development flourishes in circumstances where something approaching individual and collective potential can be achieved without excessive obstacles or constraints.
Security – at least, the variety that emphasizes the centrality of the person rather than the state or some other referent – has become the flip side of development. It can exist only in the absence of want and fear, which is to say that basic needs are being met without perceived threats to well-being.
Development, then, has largely become the basis for security, especially in the global South.
Sounds like Milton Freedman on Chile to me. Some fancy footwork is expended dancing around “neo-liberal economic prescriptions”, but individual freedom through globalist economic exploitation seems to remain the oxymoronic prescription here.
As regards the equation of “phrai” and “serfs”… does that really go?
I had thought that phrai was more nearly freeman, and that serf’s equivalent was the unvarnished Thai slave in the “good old days”. But I am incompetent to judge such points myself.
SimonSays, its nice to hear a voice that speaks with clarity and sense on such an admittedly complex situation. Glad there is someone else that isn’t a blind advocate of the proletariat regardless of the politico-business machinations behind it. Neither you nor I condone any use of military force against innocent civilians, but the mere critical stance – informed and argued as opposed to asserted – against the Reds central figure hasn’t elicited a thoughtful and reasoned counter-argument, has it? Just an attempt to slur by false association with the alleged crimes of the current government and all “equivalent” parties to the Democrats. Why can’t people just be honest and say that they support the Reds because of its pro-poor, pro-people ethos, and admit such support is complicated and in fact compromised by the leadership’s driving self-serving political and business interests and by the integral “fringe” of terrorists? SimonSays, you ought to be lucky you have been graced with soo much space on this blog, given its left-of-centre orientation, after all, being “allowed” to have a voice is easily confused for some with having one’s views and arguments being taken seriously and “vigorously” debated. Thanks for the link by the way – very informative. I think this debate, however, ought to have its own thread, though it probably needs several. I’d kindly suggest to AW that there are many important issues cropping up here in this thread that might be lost once this thread has moved down the line and that some of these issues could well do with their own dedicated threads with the key points for discussion delineated in advance to avoid much of the cross-talk that has occurred here.
I am a Thai citizen and I do not hate the US lifestyle. I know that your wife may feel that the US lifestyle is heartless but there are reasons for most of the behavior that the Thai culture has not been exposed to. In the US people work a lot more, 80 to 100 hours a week, and typically will work until 60 or 70 years of age. The reason for having an assisting living home is to actually take care of the family since there is no time or means to do it properly. It does not mean that the family loves them any less; it just means they need help in taking care of their family. Currently Thailand also has assisted living homes to help with their families due to the same fact that many Thai people are now working outside of home more, which is similar to the US.
I remember stories my mother told me about the abuse of power from the Thai government where people could not say anything bad about the King or government for the fear of being killed, jailed or just “disappear”. I never thought I would actually live to see such horrific acts performed in my lifetime. Who would have thought that in the year 2010 everything that my mother told me would reappear again. It seems like Thailand has just gone back in time and de-evolved.
What the Thai people want is a democratic society like the UK or US where they can vote for whom they think will best support their country and not have to worry about being killed or jailed. They want to have a government that is fair and just that they can trust. They do not want the government to change by military coup every time they do not like someone.
Those that want to help Dr. Suthachai Yomprasert please contact the agencies below. Lets join together and put pressure on the Thai governement to help out those being wronged.
I am a Thai citizen and I do not hate the US lifestyle. I know that your wife may feel that the US lifestyle is heartless but there are reasons for most of the behavior that the Thai culture has not been exposed to. In the US people work a lot more, 80 to 100 hours a week, and typically will work until 60 or 70 years of age. The reason for having an assisting living home is to actually take care of the family since there is no time or means to do it properly. It does not mean that the family loves them any less; it just means they need help in taking care of their family. Currently Thailand also has assisted living homes to help with their families due to the same fact that many Thai people are now working outside of home more, which is similar to the US.
I remember stories my mother told me about the abuse of power from the Thai government where people could not say anything bad about the King or government for the fear of being killed, jailed or just “disappear”. I never thought I would actually live to see such horrific acts performed in my lifetime. Who would have thought that in the year 2010 everything that my mother told me would reappear again. It seems like Thailand has just gone back in time and de-evolved.
What the Thai people want is a democratic society like the UK or US where they can vote for whom they think will best support their country and not have to worry about being killed or jailed. They want to have a government that is fair and just that they can trust. They do not want the government to change by military coup every time they do not like someone.
Does the Emergency decree give the CRES the authority to detain anyone without pressing charges? If the answer is ‘yes’, on what ground does this law supported by the constitution? It looks more like the other way around. BTW, does anybody care to mention, who gave birth to this kind of abusive law? Abhisit once relentlessly criticized this law, is now ruthlessly exercising his authority under this very law.
Thai politicians’ attitude are miles away from what’s called ‘democratic fundamental’. Those who are in power, always forge ‘weapons'(laws included) to serve the best of their interest, unaware that the forged weapons recognise no master. The opposites are actively criticising those in-power, but show no interest in being critical for the flaw of the system or laws. They just wait for their turn to abuse their power.
seems to me secession would be an implosion of the feudalistic city state previously sustained by its agricultural and manufacturing slave population into itself
doubtful if such an introspective self-loving entity could survive very long
Simon Says (#198) – You certainly get a lot of space on a forum that “isn’t a broad minded/democratic forum at all.” Perhaps you also helped define ‘reconciliation’ for the Thai government as meaning ‘silence and surrender.’ I think what you mean is that a lot of people here don’t agree with your opinion. Is that a bad thing?
Stephenson has such little credibility that I am surprised a website with academic pretensions would bother to cite his work at all. He wrote a book on another topic that featured some one I knew personally (but he didn’t) and most of it was pure fiction. Events that he claimed to have taken place were impossible because the protaganists were elsewhere at the time. He earlier claimed the King invited him to write a biography because he admired Stephenson’s book, “A Man Called Intrepid”. Now he is claiming that HMK invited him to Thailand as some sort of security adviser. In his book on the King he even had the map of Thailand drawn completely wrong in the beginning of the book.
Ozorro (#52)- ‘A’ for effort for replying, but ‘F’ (fail) for content since you didn’t make any effort to answer my questions and merely restated your thesis. Let me repeat the questions for you:
Can you please give your definition of terrorism? If mob violence in other countries results in arson (e.g. urban riots in the US), would you call it terrorism? What about cases in Thailand where mob violence does not result in arson (e.g. the PAD invasion of NBT in 2008)?
Perhaps the first question, though very timely, is a bit more conceptual than you would be comfortable dealing with, but the latter two are pretty easy, and could be answered with ‘yes’ or ‘no,’ though it would be helpful and enlightening to have your reasoning as well.
There is no ‘correct’ answer to these questions, so don’t be shy.
The full-blown crisis of legimitacy is how Bangkok can keep its’ – Bangkoks’ – highly centralised construction of “Thailand” as a
unifying influence, now when so much of the country simply wants to break-away. Isaarn wants to break-away and join Laos,
Patani wants to break away and join a more Muslim Malaysia.
I don’t see any solution for these problems.
I think these emerging states will break free.
Khaosod is now being harassed by Abhisit men for carrying that news and other true reports.
Even ordinary blog like http://siamreport.blogspot.com/ is now blocked (at least in Thailand) for carrying a clip of Kamonket’s mother. Kamonket is a 25-year-old Red Cross volunteer nurse who was shot dead inside Wat Patum, a temple designed as safe haven in anticipation of the imminent attack by the military on the 19th of May. Altogether there are six people who were shot dead inside the temple grounds, three of them wearing Red Cross gown.
This is something that Abhisit govt must explain, instead of blaming “terrorists”. Video clips clearly show soldiers taking up position on the skytrain track in front of the temple.
AW: Please don’t thump into my posts. Since I was sent the article as an email without the link, I pasted the entire piece. I don’t really see the point of me pasting the article to then have you paste the link. Aside from the obvious fact you simply don’t ‘agree’ with my post, and therefore want to some how disrupt it.
[Apart from avoiding a lot of space being taken up with the full text of an article that has already been cited and linked to here several times I also thought it important that readers see that this is a genuine article, not just the product of an anonymous emailer (from Australia of all places!). It is an important article and should be cited and linked to properly. AW]
[…] by Hamster I simply look at the facts What facts are those? Have you read this? Interesting: Thailand?s terrorists "Jimmy the Saint from Flatbush. He went to seminary school but lost the calling. But in […]
I just received this from a friend in Australia. I’m going to paste the whole article, because at the end of the day, we’ve all been affected by Thaksin’s terrorist strategies, his Napoleonic urges ‘to return’, his ‘ultimate business plan’ – from his strangling of the commercial district (not ‘red light district’ Michael, commercial) to his extremely close relationship with the recently killed terrorist Seh Daeng and his terrorist underlings, ‘the black shirts.’
In short, we’ve all been in ‘the killing zone’ here in Thailand in one way or another.
I’m perpetually surprised that, perhaps with the exception of Lee – who sharply mentioned: “Some were no doubt disappointed within the Reds for this decision by their leaders but the leadership were certainly holding out for even earlier elections not because an earlier date would somehow be more principled but because it would have allowed Thaksin – who you, contra any serious analyst, naively deny any significant role in this conflict – to have some influence over the military reshuffle in September and stand a better chance of winning back his stolen fortunes.” (#189)
– everyone on this forum is so eager to criticize the Abhisit government and yet are so willing to turn a blind eye to the deliberately disruptive and terrorist strategies of the red shirt movement. It’s leadership and militant wing. Both of which were/are wholeheartedly supported by the rank and file of the red shirts – celebrated as ‘saviours of the people’ – especially after they gunned down military officers during the battle of Phan Fa bridge. The ‘Ronin’ emergence during Pan Fa precipitated the military’s rightful use of live ammunition, prior to which they were using tear gas, rubber bullets, and/or firing live rounds in the air to disperse the reds.
I would go one step further than Lee here, and clearly state that it seems clear to me, from the first day of the UDD’s arrival in Bangkok to their financial sustenance coming from abroad, this certainly was a cleverly orchestrated strategy coming from Thaksin himself in close communication with the UDD leadership, in order to:
1. Cripple Bangkok into submission – get an election before the September military re-shuffle.
2. Use terror tactics to frighten (all of the bombs that went off during their two month stay) at the same time to enforce ‘point 1’
3. Use a para-military wing to ‘defend’ the rank and file and terrorise.
4. If/when all else fails, to attempt to cause maximum damage on Bangkok as possible. Burn and loot it! Please note a molotov coctail thrown at Central World in anger and frustration will not burn it down!! All of these arson attacks, must have been planned prior to them taking place. To burn a building down of that size is ‘an operation’ that most certainly requires a strategy.
5. Contingency plan B would be to create an underground resistance, an insurgency not dissimilar to the one(s) in Yala and Pattani, and to continue ‘the resistance’ by employing terror tactics…car bombs, motorbike bombs, assassinations, & the further destruction of government related buildings. In short, from point 1 – 5 is ‘to terrorise.’
Here’s the article I want you to read concerning your evident ambiguity concerning ‘the black shirts’.
There are enough utube video clips going around to trash your nonsensical poster about the ‘burning’ preconditioned on a ‘coup’.
Jeff Savage, a Brit 9-year resident of Thailand, joined the Reds rampage for the ‘fun of the arson-and-looting’ . . surely you’ve seen this clip?
Or Nattawut saying ‘he’ll take responsbility’ if the Reds followers start the burning, if the government started dispersing them from Rachaprasong.
Or Arisman, now a fugitive too like his master Thaksin, for urging the Reds, before their march to Bangkok, to bring one liter of petrol each gloating that with their target of 1.0 million marchers, that would be equivalent to 1.0 million liters enough ‘to burn’ in their path.
I really could NOT understand why NM readers could NOT just admit to the bombing-arson-looting dimension of the Reds movement, after having been infiltrated by the violent radicals.
(btw the violent radicals were under General Khattiya who reported directly to Thaksin Shinawatra)
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Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
Sad to say, I must agree with most of this article. Thailand’s efforts at democratisation, even the much lauded 1997 constitution, have been a total failure. It is basically rule by “Jhao Pao” outside of Bangkok.
If the local godfather doesn’t like your politics; it’s curtains for you.
Rarely mentioned in any of the current discourse about Thailand is the role of the “third pillar” of the nation; Buddhism. Even the monkhood is no longer respected by thinking Thais and from a reading of the vernacular press this is not surprising. In the eyes of many, the wats seem to have become centres of skulduggery, buggery and thuggery. All together a very sad state of affairs.
Thailand’s terrorists
The dangerous game is certainly up and running.
There are no red shirt terrorists in Thailand. (I would even suggest that there are no terrorists in the South of the country either, but that’s another story.)
Many here are wasting too much time and effort arguing and disagreeing over the definition, use and application of the word by the current government.
It doesn’t take too much to see this for what it really is:
A contrived liberty taken with the language designed to provoke outrage, anger, fear, even hatred amongst the Thai people against those accused of terrorist acts.
And of course, at a stroke, this simple linguistic convenience also legitimizes anything the government chooses to do to counter and neutralise this perceived threat to Thailand’s internal security.
Of course this is wrong, but that’s not the point. It’s done and that is that.
Also, the global community has no legitimate right to interfer in any of Thailand’s (sovereign) problems, including an internal terrorist threat, no matter how shaky the government’s assertion that one exists may seem to us and others.
I am far more worried about the government propaganda and censorship strategies and programmes that will become more and more apparent in the media and education system.
Look, one week on – watch any free to air TV channel. Mind control for the masses.
Furthermore, by nature and by necessity , counter terrorism operations are covert and subject to complete media censorship.
The disappearances and killings will begin; however, you, we just won’t know about them.
Be scared, very scared.
Thailand’s terrorists
Agree, I well remember the Thaksin era with the outrageous impunity and corruption.
So do I. So do we all. The difference was Thaksin could be unelected. The present regime has foreclosed that option.
…their leadership includes many who called for violence, who clearly turned a blind eye to violence being committed on their behalf…
These thugs attained “leadership” position as Thaksin did, by jumping in front of the parade and waving their arms. Unlike Thaksin they failed to deliver any goods at all. The present regime and its MSM identified anointed them leaders, as you seem to, because it suited their purposes.
Thousands of peaceful protesters have been betrayed not just by a political system that has ignored and harmed them, but also betrayed by leaders and their violent henchmen who brought forth ENTIRELY PREDICTABLE violence from the state in a cynical effort to promote the narrow political goals of those leaders.
No one is to blame for raping the girl who “was asking for it” but the rapist. No one is to blame for these murders but the murderers.
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
Isaarn wants to break-away and join Laos, Patani wants to break away and join a more Muslim Malaysia.
I agree with Nicholas Farrelly. I don’t think either of these assertions is true. But you can believe anything you want, no problem here.
The state and its leadership are facing a full-blown crisis of legitimacy.
Yeah. The “leadership” is illegitimate and has been since 19 September 2006. Even when an elected government was nominally in power during that time it had no power. There will be no legitimate government in Thailand ’til one is elected. The sooner the better.
Development flourishes in circumstances where something approaching individual and collective potential can be achieved without excessive obstacles or constraints.
Security – at least, the variety that emphasizes the centrality of the person rather than the state or some other referent – has become the flip side of development. It can exist only in the absence of want and fear, which is to say that basic needs are being met without perceived threats to well-being.
Development, then, has largely become the basis for security, especially in the global South.
Sounds like Milton Freedman on Chile to me. Some fancy footwork is expended dancing around “neo-liberal economic prescriptions”, but individual freedom through globalist economic exploitation seems to remain the oxymoronic prescription here.
As regards the equation of “phrai” and “serfs”… does that really go?
I had thought that phrai was more nearly freeman, and that serf’s equivalent was the unvarnished Thai slave in the “good old days”. But I am incompetent to judge such points myself.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
SimonSays, its nice to hear a voice that speaks with clarity and sense on such an admittedly complex situation. Glad there is someone else that isn’t a blind advocate of the proletariat regardless of the politico-business machinations behind it. Neither you nor I condone any use of military force against innocent civilians, but the mere critical stance – informed and argued as opposed to asserted – against the Reds central figure hasn’t elicited a thoughtful and reasoned counter-argument, has it? Just an attempt to slur by false association with the alleged crimes of the current government and all “equivalent” parties to the Democrats. Why can’t people just be honest and say that they support the Reds because of its pro-poor, pro-people ethos, and admit such support is complicated and in fact compromised by the leadership’s driving self-serving political and business interests and by the integral “fringe” of terrorists? SimonSays, you ought to be lucky you have been graced with soo much space on this blog, given its left-of-centre orientation, after all, being “allowed” to have a voice is easily confused for some with having one’s views and arguments being taken seriously and “vigorously” debated. Thanks for the link by the way – very informative. I think this debate, however, ought to have its own thread, though it probably needs several. I’d kindly suggest to AW that there are many important issues cropping up here in this thread that might be lost once this thread has moved down the line and that some of these issues could well do with their own dedicated threads with the key points for discussion delineated in advance to avoid much of the cross-talk that has occurred here.
Thailand’s terrorists
In response to 230volts.
I am a Thai citizen and I do not hate the US lifestyle. I know that your wife may feel that the US lifestyle is heartless but there are reasons for most of the behavior that the Thai culture has not been exposed to. In the US people work a lot more, 80 to 100 hours a week, and typically will work until 60 or 70 years of age. The reason for having an assisting living home is to actually take care of the family since there is no time or means to do it properly. It does not mean that the family loves them any less; it just means they need help in taking care of their family. Currently Thailand also has assisted living homes to help with their families due to the same fact that many Thai people are now working outside of home more, which is similar to the US.
I remember stories my mother told me about the abuse of power from the Thai government where people could not say anything bad about the King or government for the fear of being killed, jailed or just “disappear”. I never thought I would actually live to see such horrific acts performed in my lifetime. Who would have thought that in the year 2010 everything that my mother told me would reappear again. It seems like Thailand has just gone back in time and de-evolved.
What the Thai people want is a democratic society like the UK or US where they can vote for whom they think will best support their country and not have to worry about being killed or jailed. They want to have a government that is fair and just that they can trust. They do not want the government to change by military coup every time they do not like someone.
Sutachai on hunger strike
Those that want to help Dr. Suthachai Yomprasert please contact the agencies below. Lets join together and put pressure on the Thai governement to help out those being wronged.
Amnesty International
1-212-807-8400
http://www.amnesty.org/en/contact
Human Rights
1-212-290-4700
Sutachai on hunger strike
In response to 230volts.
I am a Thai citizen and I do not hate the US lifestyle. I know that your wife may feel that the US lifestyle is heartless but there are reasons for most of the behavior that the Thai culture has not been exposed to. In the US people work a lot more, 80 to 100 hours a week, and typically will work until 60 or 70 years of age. The reason for having an assisting living home is to actually take care of the family since there is no time or means to do it properly. It does not mean that the family loves them any less; it just means they need help in taking care of their family. Currently Thailand also has assisted living homes to help with their families due to the same fact that many Thai people are now working outside of home more, which is similar to the US.
I remember stories my mother told me about the abuse of power from the Thai government where people could not say anything bad about the King or government for the fear of being killed, jailed or just “disappear”. I never thought I would actually live to see such horrific acts performed in my lifetime. Who would have thought that in the year 2010 everything that my mother told me would reappear again. It seems like Thailand has just gone back in time and de-evolved.
What the Thai people want is a democratic society like the UK or US where they can vote for whom they think will best support their country and not have to worry about being killed or jailed. They want to have a government that is fair and just that they can trust. They do not want the government to change by military coup every time they do not like someone.
Sutachai on hunger strike
Does the Emergency decree give the CRES the authority to detain anyone without pressing charges? If the answer is ‘yes’, on what ground does this law supported by the constitution? It looks more like the other way around. BTW, does anybody care to mention, who gave birth to this kind of abusive law? Abhisit once relentlessly criticized this law, is now ruthlessly exercising his authority under this very law.
Thai politicians’ attitude are miles away from what’s called ‘democratic fundamental’. Those who are in power, always forge ‘weapons'(laws included) to serve the best of their interest, unaware that the forged weapons recognise no master. The opposites are actively criticising those in-power, but show no interest in being critical for the flaw of the system or laws. They just wait for their turn to abuse their power.
Are Thais aware of this?
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
seems to me secession would be an implosion of the feudalistic city state previously sustained by its agricultural and manufacturing slave population into itself
doubtful if such an introspective self-loving entity could survive very long
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Simon Says (#198) – You certainly get a lot of space on a forum that “isn’t a broad minded/democratic forum at all.” Perhaps you also helped define ‘reconciliation’ for the Thai government as meaning ‘silence and surrender.’ I think what you mean is that a lot of people here don’t agree with your opinion. Is that a bad thing?
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Stephenson has such little credibility that I am surprised a website with academic pretensions would bother to cite his work at all. He wrote a book on another topic that featured some one I knew personally (but he didn’t) and most of it was pure fiction. Events that he claimed to have taken place were impossible because the protaganists were elsewhere at the time. He earlier claimed the King invited him to write a biography because he admired Stephenson’s book, “A Man Called Intrepid”. Now he is claiming that HMK invited him to Thailand as some sort of security adviser. In his book on the King he even had the map of Thailand drawn completely wrong in the beginning of the book.
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
Hi Chris,
Surely the time is right for you to take me up on this offer?
As I suggested:
Look forward to your contribution.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Ozorro (#52)- ‘A’ for effort for replying, but ‘F’ (fail) for content since you didn’t make any effort to answer my questions and merely restated your thesis. Let me repeat the questions for you:
Can you please give your definition of terrorism? If mob violence in other countries results in arson (e.g. urban riots in the US), would you call it terrorism? What about cases in Thailand where mob violence does not result in arson (e.g. the PAD invasion of NBT in 2008)?
Perhaps the first question, though very timely, is a bit more conceptual than you would be comfortable dealing with, but the latter two are pretty easy, and could be answered with ‘yes’ or ‘no,’ though it would be helpful and enlightening to have your reasoning as well.
There is no ‘correct’ answer to these questions, so don’t be shy.
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
The full-blown crisis of legimitacy is how Bangkok can keep its’ – Bangkoks’ – highly centralised construction of “Thailand” as a
unifying influence, now when so much of the country simply wants to break-away. Isaarn wants to break-away and join Laos,
Patani wants to break away and join a more Muslim Malaysia.
I don’t see any solution for these problems.
I think these emerging states will break free.
Sutachai on hunger strike
Suzie, # 9
Khaosod is now being harassed by Abhisit men for carrying that news and other true reports.
Even ordinary blog like http://siamreport.blogspot.com/ is now blocked (at least in Thailand) for carrying a clip of Kamonket’s mother. Kamonket is a 25-year-old Red Cross volunteer nurse who was shot dead inside Wat Patum, a temple designed as safe haven in anticipation of the imminent attack by the military on the 19th of May. Altogether there are six people who were shot dead inside the temple grounds, three of them wearing Red Cross gown.
This is something that Abhisit govt must explain, instead of blaming “terrorists”. Video clips clearly show soldiers taking up position on the skytrain track in front of the temple.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
AW: Please don’t thump into my posts. Since I was sent the article as an email without the link, I pasted the entire piece. I don’t really see the point of me pasting the article to then have you paste the link. Aside from the obvious fact you simply don’t ‘agree’ with my post, and therefore want to some how disrupt it.
[Apart from avoiding a lot of space being taken up with the full text of an article that has already been cited and linked to here several times I also thought it important that readers see that this is a genuine article, not just the product of an anonymous emailer (from Australia of all places!). It is an important article and should be cited and linked to properly. AW]
Thailand’s terrorists
[…] by Hamster I simply look at the facts What facts are those? Have you read this? Interesting: Thailand?s terrorists "Jimmy the Saint from Flatbush. He went to seminary school but lost the calling. But in […]
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Michael #197:
I just received this from a friend in Australia. I’m going to paste the whole article, because at the end of the day, we’ve all been affected by Thaksin’s terrorist strategies, his Napoleonic urges ‘to return’, his ‘ultimate business plan’ – from his strangling of the commercial district (not ‘red light district’ Michael, commercial) to his extremely close relationship with the recently killed terrorist Seh Daeng and his terrorist underlings, ‘the black shirts.’
In short, we’ve all been in ‘the killing zone’ here in Thailand in one way or another.
I’m perpetually surprised that, perhaps with the exception of Lee – who sharply mentioned: “Some were no doubt disappointed within the Reds for this decision by their leaders but the leadership were certainly holding out for even earlier elections not because an earlier date would somehow be more principled but because it would have allowed Thaksin – who you, contra any serious analyst, naively deny any significant role in this conflict – to have some influence over the military reshuffle in September and stand a better chance of winning back his stolen fortunes.” (#189)
– everyone on this forum is so eager to criticize the Abhisit government and yet are so willing to turn a blind eye to the deliberately disruptive and terrorist strategies of the red shirt movement. It’s leadership and militant wing. Both of which were/are wholeheartedly supported by the rank and file of the red shirts – celebrated as ‘saviours of the people’ – especially after they gunned down military officers during the battle of Phan Fa bridge. The ‘Ronin’ emergence during Pan Fa precipitated the military’s rightful use of live ammunition, prior to which they were using tear gas, rubber bullets, and/or firing live rounds in the air to disperse the reds.
I would go one step further than Lee here, and clearly state that it seems clear to me, from the first day of the UDD’s arrival in Bangkok to their financial sustenance coming from abroad, this certainly was a cleverly orchestrated strategy coming from Thaksin himself in close communication with the UDD leadership, in order to:
1. Cripple Bangkok into submission – get an election before the September military re-shuffle.
2. Use terror tactics to frighten (all of the bombs that went off during their two month stay) at the same time to enforce ‘point 1’
3. Use a para-military wing to ‘defend’ the rank and file and terrorise.
4. If/when all else fails, to attempt to cause maximum damage on Bangkok as possible. Burn and loot it! Please note a molotov coctail thrown at Central World in anger and frustration will not burn it down!! All of these arson attacks, must have been planned prior to them taking place. To burn a building down of that size is ‘an operation’ that most certainly requires a strategy.
5. Contingency plan B would be to create an underground resistance, an insurgency not dissimilar to the one(s) in Yala and Pattani, and to continue ‘the resistance’ by employing terror tactics…car bombs, motorbike bombs, assassinations, & the further destruction of government related buildings. In short, from point 1 – 5 is ‘to terrorise.’
Here’s the article I want you to read concerning your evident ambiguity concerning ‘the black shirts’.
[Here is the link. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE29Ae02.html Please post links, not full articles. AW]
Enemies, foreign and domestic
John Worth you are absolutely worthless.
There are enough utube video clips going around to trash your nonsensical poster about the ‘burning’ preconditioned on a ‘coup’.
Jeff Savage, a Brit 9-year resident of Thailand, joined the Reds rampage for the ‘fun of the arson-and-looting’ . . surely you’ve seen this clip?
Or Nattawut saying ‘he’ll take responsbility’ if the Reds followers start the burning, if the government started dispersing them from Rachaprasong.
Or Arisman, now a fugitive too like his master Thaksin, for urging the Reds, before their march to Bangkok, to bring one liter of petrol each gloating that with their target of 1.0 million marchers, that would be equivalent to 1.0 million liters enough ‘to burn’ in their path.
I really could NOT understand why NM readers could NOT just admit to the bombing-arson-looting dimension of the Reds movement, after having been infiltrated by the violent radicals.
(btw the violent radicals were under General Khattiya who reported directly to Thaksin Shinawatra)