Few days after King Vajiruvudh’s accession to the throne in 1910, he appointed his brother Prince Chakrabongse as heir apparent, on the condition that Prince Chula Chakrabongse had no right to the throne.
You can see details in King Vajiravudh’s personal diary (р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕Хр╣Йр╕Щр╕гр╕▒р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕ер╕Чр╕╡р╣И 6), recently published in Thai by Matichon Publishing House.
Well by the finger pointing by Mr ‘Smith’ if these were ‘extrajudicial killings’ what or who killed the civilians, the soldiers and who burned Thailand?
All the ‘unjustified detentions’ and so forth in the article are really a CNN/BBC perspective (opinion) and like those mentioned, are ill informed and truth has been misappropriated but as per the Paretto Principle, 80% from (yes) the terrorist camp and 20% from the Government.
Either way, blind Freddy can see this is not at an end but to have all the do gooders stand by and blame army and government is a travesty of truth. If you lived here you would know. After 10 years in BKK there are many things one learns and not the least of which is the Jekkyl and Hide syndrome of the Thai.
all what I have seen since two weeks is very disturbing as it draws an evident parallell with Burma:
– shutdown of most if not all independent and critical media,
– arrest of monks, desacralization of temples by the army,
– deliberate shooting of unarmed civilians, journalists and medics with the intent to kill,
– unsubstantiated accusations of ‘terrorism’, arrest and detention of activists and now academics without charges.
– all ‘legal’ media focus on the buildings destructions and have completely forgotten that a hundred civilians have been shot by the army. (yes, there is enough evidence to assert that thai soldiers are responsible for most of the deaths)
– slandering of ‘foreign’ media and interference
I’m afraid the UDD is becoming the NLD of Thailand. The thais that woke up from their fairy tale Thailand woke up too late. Who, now, can prevent those who took power through the CRES to hold on indefinitely?
I think all of this has been planned since the day the junta saw the massive red shirt caravan marching through bangkok gaining widespread support and realised the majority of the population wants political change. (they must have freaked out completely).
I also ask myself what went wrong for the UDD, how did they slip from a massive popular movement to a few thousand people entranched behind barricades? The red shirt leaders bear their share of responsibility for this failure.
talking of snipers and elite tactics….
the behaviour the Thai Red Cross and Chulalongkorn Hospital in:
– harbouring military snipers (see Porntips rapidly suppressed report about evidence found on the 7/8th floors) and
– facilitated the public outcry of interference in their operations and
– who refused to assist redshirt casualties
was despicable and even more horrifying when we look at the royal and high prestige elite figures that are the patrons, board and executive members of the Red Cross organisation. Even our favourite royal princess was involved in visiting the hospital first to discuss moving the Sangharad and second to “encourage the staff”.
this of course at the same time as the military were positioning their snipers along the overhead rail and tall buildings including at the hospital for the purpose of “taking out terrorists” as announced by Abhisit.
I am waiting for the CRES or the government to explain what information or rules of engagement they provided their snipers so they could identify the “terrorists” that they were supposed to take out.
Were they told to avoid the medicos, journalists and unarmed red and non-red civilians many of whom that they shot and killed?
Are the CRES and government guilty of giving faulty rules of engagement or were the snipers incompetent or perhaps encouraged during early morning visits by royals or other elites to be excessively brutal in their targetting?
IMHO the real issue in Thailand is that the right wing elites and governments have boosted the power of the military so they can call on them to solve their problems instead of relying on normal police for crime and crowd control and democratic processes that are appropriate when dealing with citizens rather than external enemies.
control the military, ban them from any involvement in business and
politics in the country so no Thais will be able to shortcut democratic negotiations and processes.
I believe that most deaths and many injuries during the army push into Rajaprasong were the result of indiscriminate sniper shots
it seems that the government has been strenuously trying to distance
itself from the snipers, perhaps because they got out of control and it
seems because the government said their “rules of engagement” were as Abhisit said “to take out terrorists” amongst the redshirts…. but they forgot to tell the snipers how to identify “terrorists”
so the snipers shot at everyone they could with terrible results:
– many medics, nurses injured and killed
– many local and foreign journalists injured and killed
– many innocent civilians not involved in the redshirt rally but caught
in the open under the overhead railways or tall buildings
– many unarmed redshirt protesters and independent medics, including 6 dead in Wat Pathum royal nominated “safe refuge” for women and children
– the so-called “rogue solder” General Seh Deang shot dead while he was standing being interviewed by New York Times journalist Thomas Fuller
– an airforce officer (the only solder killed,case of “friendly” fire)
someone claimed the snipers were offered 5,000Baht kill bonus (instead of clear instructions?)
the Abhisit government and CRES are running really scared of this
because they bear heavy culpability for outright uncontrolled murder on the streets
I agree with Peter Boyles sentiment, also the initial argument, but I disagree with the conclusion. True democracy is not the favoured method of government for most of the world. It might be the ideal since USA is fighting its cause (historically speaking, not always true, but in most cases it is), but most people live under a government that use democracy as a facade. The emergence of China as a megapower to rival USA will only ensure that repressive governments can stay in power for this generation. And most likely the next.
Its perfectly possible to govern a country on fear and power alone. Look at Myanmar. Or North Korea. Or China. Once a government stop caring about its real international and internal image they can keep it going until foreign powers intervene. The question here is how far will the ruling elite of Thailand be willing to go to keep ruling? We’re seeing signs now, they lie even if they get caught lying, and then repeat it over and over. Its a very Thai reaction, but its also steps down the road to absolute power and abuse to keep it.
I have a feeling that even if the redshirts rise 30 times, the point of breaking for the elite is so extreme it will not be worth it. Even in the name of Democracy.
Guys . . . relax I live in Thailand and I read all the news.
But the desperation of the Red sympathizers at New Mandala to cling to some saving grace about their violent bomb-throwing, M79 grenade launching and arson-bent torching violent Red movement leaves me gasping in wonderment about the magic, or should I should, the voodoo charm of their patron Thaksin Shinawatra.
After the Black May 2010 is the beginning of the end of the Red Shirts movement. Maybe only a few NM hardliners will remain Red-Til-Dead.
Ricky, there’s a time factor for the other side. Remember their age?
That’s why the clock is running out on them. Newer, younger parts of the PAD has never been given the chance to shine. The elites has never been good at power sharing.
Neptunian Cosmos 208 – then further evidence of militant red-shirt terrorism. It must havebeen them who planted the car bomb outside Poseidon, since the Bhumjaithai Party, or ‘blue shirts’ – are anti-UDD.
Michael 209 – What do you mean ‘Thai commerce’ is a euphemism for ‘prostitution’??
There are other forms of commerce here in Thailand outside the prostitution ‘industry’ you know. Or are you just being PC liberal clever/snide once again??
Irritated at this post which has wasted quite a lot of people’s time.
Perhaps we could have a thumbs down on the post itself to short circuit the process.
michael, Chrs Baker wrote “Stevenson is hilarious… After Rama 7 abdicated, the succession was decided according to the current law and procedure, but Stevenson has Ananda summoned by “politicians” to “restore” the throne. ”
To me, Baker’s opinion implies that R8’s rise to the thrown was legally and politically straight forward and without debate.
Sad to disagree with :
Peter Boyles “The red shirt can lose ten times or twenty times but the legacy will drag on and on. But the other side cannot afford to lose even once. ”
The other side lost in 1932 and eventually re-grouped and took over with the help of the USA after the Japs were defeated in 1945.
Sililarly the 1st French Republic was replaced in time by the Napoleonic Empire.
We have a Fascist regime now and if Franco could last for decades I would not be sure the present setup will pass quickly.
“Well, the game was not over and its conclusion was in doubt (consider for example the court decision on Supinya’s case), but the army decided to turn off the stadium lights and kick out everybody. Why? Because they had the guns. (#52) Why would “A coup … have been impossible if a significant percentage of the population were not of the opinion that their democratic rights had already been abused?” And what qualifies as a “significant percentage?” Whose bidding was the army actually doing?”
I think it is probably safe to say that practically all of the 40% of the electorate who voted for the Dems in the post coup election were convinced that Thaksin was criminally abusing his position and getting away with it long before the coup took place. If such a large number of people had already lost faith in the democratic process surely the game was already over regardless of whether one court case out of dozens hadn’t gone Thaksin’s way?
The army moved in because there was a consensus among various power brokers that Thaksin’s behaviour had become a common danger to their various interests and to the national inrerest. As he had already kicked the legs out from under the new infant democracy the pro-democratic ‘doves’ in the establishment were not in a strong position to oppose the more hawkish elements. Yes you are right “because they had the guns”; democracy failed and the guy with biggest stick grabbed power.
I may have been wrong to say that a coup would have been ‘impossible’ if a significant percentage of the population had not already lost faith in the democratic process. It would just have been very unlikely, and would have met with overwhelming opposition from the entire civilian population not merely a fraction of it. It was never the case that many people supported the coup. They just didn’t give a damn anymore.
It’s clear that the 2006 coup has compounded Thailands problems and caused further division and disallusionment wth the system. Anyway the military are no less unsavoury than Thaksin. So what should have happened in 2006 to set Thailand back on the road to democracy and the rule of law after Thaksin betrayed the nation? I don’t know the answer. It’s like the old joke about the tourist asking directions from the local bumpkin, “well, I wouldn’t start from here if I were you!”
Thank you, Elizabeth, for such a thought-provoking article.
It has been our experience with the OIC, in fact, the FOI bodies in all the countries we’ve tested, that govt agencies simply don’t respond and so the public never receives satisfaction. All the protections of law are in place but no penalties are assigned for non-compliance.
FOI law, in Thailand as elsewhere, seems designed to give the appearance, but not the substance, of democracy.
Neptunian #208, she was also the manager for some time. This was widely talked about, even in the press, & led me to comment that it was now official that ‘Thai Commerce’ is a euphemism for ‘prostitution’.
JFL #46, while not usually a great fan of ‘conspiracy theories’ I can’t help wondering about this one. You’re not alone. In fact, MR Nattakorn Devakula (Kh Pleum), a political commentator & cousin of the King, tweeted the following:
“[5/19/10]
Suthikiart Jirathiwat [Chirathivat] and Pracha Maleenont are quite close to Thaksin Shinawatra.
[The Chirathivat family owns Central Group, which includes Central World mall, Central department stores (which were closed nationwide on Wednesday), part of Big C (which was also set on fire at Rajadamri on Wednesday), Zen (which was destroyed by the fire at Central World on Friday), and Centara Hotels (the hotel at CW). Suthikiart Chirathivat is a major shareholder in Post Publishing, publisher of the Bangkok Post and Post Today.
[Pracha Maleenont is head of a family media conglomerate, BEC-TERO Entertainment Public Co. Ltd. (BEC) that includes Channel 3, which was singled out for attack on Wednesday. Channel 3 airs a popular Thaksin-sympathetic talk show. Pracha was a minister in Thaksin’s cabinet (the one who led the crackdown on nude/sex clubs in 2003). He was the producer of the movie Bangkok Dangerous (1999).]
They are still on good terms. If the reds set the blaze it would not make sense at all.
Places burnt down are symbolic of regime/system and representation of success. However the perpetrators are sparing many business locations.
Dusit, MBK [run by Dusit Thani PCL], ASTV [owned by PAD’s Sonthi], Nation, SisaoTewes [Prem’s residence], Pullman Kingpower [Newin Chidchob has strong ties to Pullman Hotel and KingPower], all left untouched. Those would’ve been the reds’ targets.
Remember who was feuding with Central and BEC before all of this? Who was the biggest enemy of the Central Group and Ch. 3 in the past 3 years? The direct beneficiary of the fire is not reds or Thaksin…it’s the man who feuded …
The fire kills 5 birds in one-stone: Channel 3, Central, Thaksin, Reds, Anti-Monarchists. Pongpat was used.
Game over for Thaksin as he and reds are delegitimized, while opponents of Central/Bangkok Bank/BEC benefit.
Cogitate this for a minute and you’ll realize the missing jigsaw of this puzzle.
The men behind the blaze are the men who wanted to drive BEC/Central/BBL out of business… and blame it on protestors.
The fires irrevocably ends the reds shirts movement..for now, while Thaksin cannot conceivably ever return to politics or even to Thai soil.
The victims of the fire are not Thaksin/Reds’s enemies. They are the enemies of Thaksin’s enemies.
Ultra-hardcore-right-winged conservative types stand to benefit from this chaos. Watch the aftermath display closely and you’ll see.
Those who are desperate about clinging on to power are required to create an element of fear in the hearts of its population.
The incentive is way greater than those aspiring to attain power. Students of political science would know what I am talking about.
One will go to great length to protect remaining interests while the threat is eliminated to foster a rally-round-the-regime type of feeling.
I wish I could say all these things to every person in this country so they’d know what’s going on but I can’t.
Please tell your friends/relatives to follow my twitter as we unravel the clues–together–leading to the evolutionary trail of democratic dispensation.
Politics 101: Make them so afraid they’ll love you forever. Put your mind in the head of the person governing the apparatus.
Thaksin/Red is for Thai regime as BinLaden/AlQaeda is for US.
It’s the simplest formula in governing a state. The average person is not aware of this because they can’t imagine how vicious one has to be.
The goal of the movement to eliminate Thaksin forever from the system was not accomplished until today. It is end-game for him. We lose. Regime wins.
May I stress not coincidence ASTV, Nation, PullmanKingPower, Dusit remain untouched. This battle is deeper than what meets the eyes.
And SiSao [Prem’s residence] is untouched.
What’s RedSiam’s involvement in all this. They just had another announcement today immediately after the crowd was told to go home.
Another theory altogether is that this is the work of hardline-anti-monarchists or anarchists….all still theories.
Or it may just be…simply red.
Whatever it is this will go down as one of the darkest moments in the history of the Kingdom…I though believe that we do have even darker days ahead.
[5/20/10 –
Do not misunderstood my insinuations last nights. There were merely theories as to who could have been behind the move to destroy Central, Bangkok Bank, Channel 3. We have no idea who the real mastermind behind the incidents were. It could’ve been the work of extremists.
Ultra-right-wing and left-wing opportunists to strike a sword in the heart of Bangkok and its establishment. It could have also been Thaksin.
…And or reds working under his belt. Whoever was the mastermind must pay dearly so as to return the Kingdom to its previous standing.
Sometimes things are not as they seem…but sometimes they also are. I want to believe that all of society is able to come to capture which.
If Thaksin ordered the fire then he is nearly as evil as Bin Laden. I want to come to conclusions on this as to who was behind the fire.
But as for now let’s wait till the evidence surface, I’ll let the truth be the judge.
Apologize if I offended anyone. I understand the seriousness of this predicament.
And will not comment on this issue for the time being till the ultimate truth is revealed.
These are bad times indeed for our nation and my condolences go out to every businesses who fell victim to these horrific acts of sabotage.”
The fact that he seems to back-track next day may be due to any one of a number of reasons, including covering his behind. The point is that he did put out his theory, and it is now in circulation.
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Thailand’s terrorists
So much discontent the country split in two.
Perhaps its time for another round of anthem singing
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Anonymous 21
Few days after King Vajiruvudh’s accession to the throne in 1910, he appointed his brother Prince Chakrabongse as heir apparent, on the condition that Prince Chula Chakrabongse had no right to the throne.
You can see details in King Vajiravudh’s personal diary (р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕Хр╣Йр╕Щр╕гр╕▒р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕ер╕Чр╕╡р╣И 6), recently published in Thai by Matichon Publishing House.
Thailand’s terrorists
Well by the finger pointing by Mr ‘Smith’ if these were ‘extrajudicial killings’ what or who killed the civilians, the soldiers and who burned Thailand?
All the ‘unjustified detentions’ and so forth in the article are really a CNN/BBC perspective (opinion) and like those mentioned, are ill informed and truth has been misappropriated but as per the Paretto Principle, 80% from (yes) the terrorist camp and 20% from the Government.
Either way, blind Freddy can see this is not at an end but to have all the do gooders stand by and blame army and government is a travesty of truth. If you lived here you would know. After 10 years in BKK there are many things one learns and not the least of which is the Jekkyl and Hide syndrome of the Thai.
Sutachai on hunger strike
all what I have seen since two weeks is very disturbing as it draws an evident parallell with Burma:
– shutdown of most if not all independent and critical media,
– arrest of monks, desacralization of temples by the army,
– deliberate shooting of unarmed civilians, journalists and medics with the intent to kill,
– unsubstantiated accusations of ‘terrorism’, arrest and detention of activists and now academics without charges.
– all ‘legal’ media focus on the buildings destructions and have completely forgotten that a hundred civilians have been shot by the army. (yes, there is enough evidence to assert that thai soldiers are responsible for most of the deaths)
– slandering of ‘foreign’ media and interference
I’m afraid the UDD is becoming the NLD of Thailand. The thais that woke up from their fairy tale Thailand woke up too late. Who, now, can prevent those who took power through the CRES to hold on indefinitely?
I think all of this has been planned since the day the junta saw the massive red shirt caravan marching through bangkok gaining widespread support and realised the majority of the population wants political change. (they must have freaked out completely).
I also ask myself what went wrong for the UDD, how did they slip from a massive popular movement to a few thousand people entranched behind barricades? The red shirt leaders bear their share of responsibility for this failure.
Thailand’s terrorists
talking of snipers and elite tactics….
the behaviour the Thai Red Cross and Chulalongkorn Hospital in:
– harbouring military snipers (see Porntips rapidly suppressed report about evidence found on the 7/8th floors) and
– facilitated the public outcry of interference in their operations and
– who refused to assist redshirt casualties
was despicable and even more horrifying when we look at the royal and high prestige elite figures that are the patrons, board and executive members of the Red Cross organisation. Even our favourite royal princess was involved in visiting the hospital first to discuss moving the Sangharad and second to “encourage the staff”.
this of course at the same time as the military were positioning their snipers along the overhead rail and tall buildings including at the hospital for the purpose of “taking out terrorists” as announced by Abhisit.
I am waiting for the CRES or the government to explain what information or rules of engagement they provided their snipers so they could identify the “terrorists” that they were supposed to take out.
Were they told to avoid the medicos, journalists and unarmed red and non-red civilians many of whom that they shot and killed?
Are the CRES and government guilty of giving faulty rules of engagement or were the snipers incompetent or perhaps encouraged during early morning visits by royals or other elites to be excessively brutal in their targetting?
Thailand’s terrorists
IMHO the real issue in Thailand is that the right wing elites and governments have boosted the power of the military so they can call on them to solve their problems instead of relying on normal police for crime and crowd control and democratic processes that are appropriate when dealing with citizens rather than external enemies.
control the military, ban them from any involvement in business and
politics in the country so no Thais will be able to shortcut democratic negotiations and processes.
I believe that most deaths and many injuries during the army push into Rajaprasong were the result of indiscriminate sniper shots
it seems that the government has been strenuously trying to distance
itself from the snipers, perhaps because they got out of control and it
seems because the government said their “rules of engagement” were as Abhisit said “to take out terrorists” amongst the redshirts…. but they forgot to tell the snipers how to identify “terrorists”
so the snipers shot at everyone they could with terrible results:
– many medics, nurses injured and killed
– many local and foreign journalists injured and killed
– many innocent civilians not involved in the redshirt rally but caught
in the open under the overhead railways or tall buildings
– many unarmed redshirt protesters and independent medics, including 6 dead in Wat Pathum royal nominated “safe refuge” for women and children
– the so-called “rogue solder” General Seh Deang shot dead while he was standing being interviewed by New York Times journalist Thomas Fuller
– an airforce officer (the only solder killed,case of “friendly” fire)
someone claimed the snipers were offered 5,000Baht kill bonus (instead of clear instructions?)
the Abhisit government and CRES are running really scared of this
because they bear heavy culpability for outright uncontrolled murder on the streets
Thailand’s terrorists
[…] […]
Thailand’s terrorists
I agree with Peter Boyles sentiment, also the initial argument, but I disagree with the conclusion. True democracy is not the favoured method of government for most of the world. It might be the ideal since USA is fighting its cause (historically speaking, not always true, but in most cases it is), but most people live under a government that use democracy as a facade. The emergence of China as a megapower to rival USA will only ensure that repressive governments can stay in power for this generation. And most likely the next.
Its perfectly possible to govern a country on fear and power alone. Look at Myanmar. Or North Korea. Or China. Once a government stop caring about its real international and internal image they can keep it going until foreign powers intervene. The question here is how far will the ruling elite of Thailand be willing to go to keep ruling? We’re seeing signs now, they lie even if they get caught lying, and then repeat it over and over. Its a very Thai reaction, but its also steps down the road to absolute power and abuse to keep it.
I have a feeling that even if the redshirts rise 30 times, the point of breaking for the elite is so extreme it will not be worth it. Even in the name of Democracy.
Thailand’s terrorists
Guys . . . relax I live in Thailand and I read all the news.
But the desperation of the Red sympathizers at New Mandala to cling to some saving grace about their violent bomb-throwing, M79 grenade launching and arson-bent torching violent Red movement leaves me gasping in wonderment about the magic, or should I should, the voodoo charm of their patron Thaksin Shinawatra.
After the Black May 2010 is the beginning of the end of the Red Shirts movement. Maybe only a few NM hardliners will remain Red-Til-Dead.
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Anon #23, BOLLOCKS! What Baker says is absolutely true, & sufficient in order to make his point.
Thailand’s terrorists
Ricky, there’s a time factor for the other side. Remember their age?
That’s why the clock is running out on them. Newer, younger parts of the PAD has never been given the chance to shine. The elites has never been good at power sharing.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Neptunian Cosmos 208 – then further evidence of militant red-shirt terrorism. It must havebeen them who planted the car bomb outside Poseidon, since the Bhumjaithai Party, or ‘blue shirts’ – are anti-UDD.
Michael 209 – What do you mean ‘Thai commerce’ is a euphemism for ‘prostitution’??
There are other forms of commerce here in Thailand outside the prostitution ‘industry’ you know. Or are you just being PC liberal clever/snide once again??
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Irritated at this post which has wasted quite a lot of people’s time.
Perhaps we could have a thumbs down on the post itself to short circuit the process.
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
michael, Chrs Baker wrote “Stevenson is hilarious… After Rama 7 abdicated, the succession was decided according to the current law and procedure, but Stevenson has Ananda summoned by “politicians” to “restore” the throne. ”
To me, Baker’s opinion implies that R8’s rise to the thrown was legally and politically straight forward and without debate.
Thailand’s terrorists
Sad to disagree with :
Peter Boyles “The red shirt can lose ten times or twenty times but the legacy will drag on and on. But the other side cannot afford to lose even once. ”
The other side lost in 1932 and eventually re-grouped and took over with the help of the USA after the Japs were defeated in 1945.
Sililarly the 1st French Republic was replaced in time by the Napoleonic Empire.
We have a Fascist regime now and if Franco could last for decades I would not be sure the present setup will pass quickly.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
superanonymous#61
“Well, the game was not over and its conclusion was in doubt (consider for example the court decision on Supinya’s case), but the army decided to turn off the stadium lights and kick out everybody. Why? Because they had the guns. (#52) Why would “A coup … have been impossible if a significant percentage of the population were not of the opinion that their democratic rights had already been abused?” And what qualifies as a “significant percentage?” Whose bidding was the army actually doing?”
I think it is probably safe to say that practically all of the 40% of the electorate who voted for the Dems in the post coup election were convinced that Thaksin was criminally abusing his position and getting away with it long before the coup took place. If such a large number of people had already lost faith in the democratic process surely the game was already over regardless of whether one court case out of dozens hadn’t gone Thaksin’s way?
The army moved in because there was a consensus among various power brokers that Thaksin’s behaviour had become a common danger to their various interests and to the national inrerest. As he had already kicked the legs out from under the new infant democracy the pro-democratic ‘doves’ in the establishment were not in a strong position to oppose the more hawkish elements. Yes you are right “because they had the guns”; democracy failed and the guy with biggest stick grabbed power.
I may have been wrong to say that a coup would have been ‘impossible’ if a significant percentage of the population had not already lost faith in the democratic process. It would just have been very unlikely, and would have met with overwhelming opposition from the entire civilian population not merely a fraction of it. It was never the case that many people supported the coup. They just didn’t give a damn anymore.
It’s clear that the 2006 coup has compounded Thailands problems and caused further division and disallusionment wth the system. Anyway the military are no less unsavoury than Thaksin. So what should have happened in 2006 to set Thailand back on the road to democracy and the rule of law after Thaksin betrayed the nation? I don’t know the answer. It’s like the old joke about the tourist asking directions from the local bumpkin, “well, I wouldn’t start from here if I were you!”
neptuniam # 60
?!
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Anonymous #21, where did Chris Baker imply “that R8’s rise to the throne was without debate” ?
Thai institutions: Archives
Thank you, Elizabeth, for such a thought-provoking article.
It has been our experience with the OIC, in fact, the FOI bodies in all the countries we’ve tested, that govt agencies simply don’t respond and so the public never receives satisfaction. All the protections of law are in place but no penalties are assigned for non-compliance.
FOI law, in Thailand as elsewhere, seems designed to give the appearance, but not the substance, of democracy.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Neptunian #208, she was also the manager for some time. This was widely talked about, even in the press, & led me to comment that it was now official that ‘Thai Commerce’ is a euphemism for ‘prostitution’.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
JFL #46, while not usually a great fan of ‘conspiracy theories’ I can’t help wondering about this one. You’re not alone. In fact, MR Nattakorn Devakula (Kh Pleum), a political commentator & cousin of the King, tweeted the following:
“[5/19/10]
Suthikiart Jirathiwat [Chirathivat] and Pracha Maleenont are quite close to Thaksin Shinawatra.
[The Chirathivat family owns Central Group, which includes Central World mall, Central department stores (which were closed nationwide on Wednesday), part of Big C (which was also set on fire at Rajadamri on Wednesday), Zen (which was destroyed by the fire at Central World on Friday), and Centara Hotels (the hotel at CW). Suthikiart Chirathivat is a major shareholder in Post Publishing, publisher of the Bangkok Post and Post Today.
[Pracha Maleenont is head of a family media conglomerate, BEC-TERO Entertainment Public Co. Ltd. (BEC) that includes Channel 3, which was singled out for attack on Wednesday. Channel 3 airs a popular Thaksin-sympathetic talk show. Pracha was a minister in Thaksin’s cabinet (the one who led the crackdown on nude/sex clubs in 2003). He was the producer of the movie Bangkok Dangerous (1999).]
They are still on good terms. If the reds set the blaze it would not make sense at all.
Places burnt down are symbolic of regime/system and representation of success. However the perpetrators are sparing many business locations.
Dusit, MBK [run by Dusit Thani PCL], ASTV [owned by PAD’s Sonthi], Nation, SisaoTewes [Prem’s residence], Pullman Kingpower [Newin Chidchob has strong ties to Pullman Hotel and KingPower], all left untouched. Those would’ve been the reds’ targets.
Remember who was feuding with Central and BEC before all of this? Who was the biggest enemy of the Central Group and Ch. 3 in the past 3 years? The direct beneficiary of the fire is not reds or Thaksin…it’s the man who feuded …
The fire kills 5 birds in one-stone: Channel 3, Central, Thaksin, Reds, Anti-Monarchists. Pongpat was used.
Game over for Thaksin as he and reds are delegitimized, while opponents of Central/Bangkok Bank/BEC benefit.
Cogitate this for a minute and you’ll realize the missing jigsaw of this puzzle.
The men behind the blaze are the men who wanted to drive BEC/Central/BBL out of business… and blame it on protestors.
The fires irrevocably ends the reds shirts movement..for now, while Thaksin cannot conceivably ever return to politics or even to Thai soil.
The victims of the fire are not Thaksin/Reds’s enemies. They are the enemies of Thaksin’s enemies.
Ultra-hardcore-right-winged conservative types stand to benefit from this chaos. Watch the aftermath display closely and you’ll see.
Those who are desperate about clinging on to power are required to create an element of fear in the hearts of its population.
The incentive is way greater than those aspiring to attain power. Students of political science would know what I am talking about.
One will go to great length to protect remaining interests while the threat is eliminated to foster a rally-round-the-regime type of feeling.
I wish I could say all these things to every person in this country so they’d know what’s going on but I can’t.
Please tell your friends/relatives to follow my twitter as we unravel the clues–together–leading to the evolutionary trail of democratic dispensation.
Politics 101: Make them so afraid they’ll love you forever. Put your mind in the head of the person governing the apparatus.
Thaksin/Red is for Thai regime as BinLaden/AlQaeda is for US.
It’s the simplest formula in governing a state. The average person is not aware of this because they can’t imagine how vicious one has to be.
The goal of the movement to eliminate Thaksin forever from the system was not accomplished until today. It is end-game for him. We lose. Regime wins.
May I stress not coincidence ASTV, Nation, PullmanKingPower, Dusit remain untouched. This battle is deeper than what meets the eyes.
And SiSao [Prem’s residence] is untouched.
What’s RedSiam’s involvement in all this. They just had another announcement today immediately after the crowd was told to go home.
Another theory altogether is that this is the work of hardline-anti-monarchists or anarchists….all still theories.
Or it may just be…simply red.
Whatever it is this will go down as one of the darkest moments in the history of the Kingdom…I though believe that we do have even darker days ahead.
[5/20/10 –
Do not misunderstood my insinuations last nights. There were merely theories as to who could have been behind the move to destroy Central, Bangkok Bank, Channel 3. We have no idea who the real mastermind behind the incidents were. It could’ve been the work of extremists.
Ultra-right-wing and left-wing opportunists to strike a sword in the heart of Bangkok and its establishment. It could have also been Thaksin.
…And or reds working under his belt. Whoever was the mastermind must pay dearly so as to return the Kingdom to its previous standing.
Sometimes things are not as they seem…but sometimes they also are. I want to believe that all of society is able to come to capture which.
If Thaksin ordered the fire then he is nearly as evil as Bin Laden. I want to come to conclusions on this as to who was behind the fire.
But as for now let’s wait till the evidence surface, I’ll let the truth be the judge.
Apologize if I offended anyone. I understand the seriousness of this predicament.
And will not comment on this issue for the time being till the ultimate truth is revealed.
These are bad times indeed for our nation and my condolences go out to every businesses who fell victim to these horrific acts of sabotage.”
The fact that he seems to back-track next day may be due to any one of a number of reasons, including covering his behind. The point is that he did put out his theory, and it is now in circulation.