MichaelBkk 13. Interesting analysis. Can you also explain China’s shifting rankings?
Est 2002 rank 129 $4,400
Est 2006 rank 109 $7,600
Est 2009 rank 128 $6,600
Goodness. How did China slip also back so much from 2006 to 2009? One had the sense that the communist central planners there were pushing all the right economic buttons, while the Falangist government in Thailand was doing everything completely wrong. Did Thaksin’s departure from the helm in Thailand also have economic reverberations in his ancestral home? Or was there perhaps something similar happening across Asia? Did the fortuitous entry of several new countries into the rankings in 2009, e.g. Montenegro, also have an impact?
BTW Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is an arithmetical model for calculating theoretical exchange rates based on differences in rates of inflation. What you were referring to is GDP per capita. What you were trying to do is data mining.
They are doing this because they now see the real, ever-closer danger that their “Thailand’ is going to break up.
I.e. Lanna and Isaarn are going to break free.
Nich I get the “This website has been blocked by ICT” banner. Is it just a page or pages about the Royal family that’s being blocked? In the current posts I don’t think I’m being blocked.
Censorship isn’t very nice whatever side you support.
Many websites are blocked but not New Mandala (so far 16.00)!! Thanks. I get access to many good articles through your websites. I use Loxinfo, AIS, TTT system. I am in Chiang Mai.
I don’t suggest that Suzie Wong is wrong precisely because I, like other armchair commentators, have absolutely no idea what constitutes the truth in all this murk. And that is exactly my point in critiquing your faith in his/her assertions.
For all his/her ‘accurate information’ (Not the Nation post included), without some hard evidence it seems a little previous to equate conjecture with confirmation. If either s/he or you can provide proof that the sniper who took out Seh Daeng was in the Dusit Thani, and there at the bequest of its proprietor and then by association at the bequest of a significant other then I’ll happily shut up.
I would also add that suggesting to others that my critique of your faith in Suzie Wong’s comments to be ‘clues’ may also be remiss.
Can anyone direct me to an article which offers a decent and balanced analysis of Handley’s book? Handley’s book seems to have become iconised into something of a sacred cow on this forum and I would like to see how it stands up to proper academic analysis. Not because I am against his assertions (many of them seem reasonable), but rather because I would like to read proper academic debate on the topic.
Meeng’s voice is not an uncommon one heard on these matters. He/she is to be commended for airing them on this forum. At the same time, the voice shows that many people’s thoughts are fogged by a combination of high-octane emotions, anecdotal evidence, and anti-foreign bias. Many of the problems in the current turmoil come from non-critical way of thinking. Instead mystical thinking is substituted. Only locals know the truth as if Thailand is a secret Free Mason’s Society. This line of thinking descends into tribalism and belligerence and arrogance.
Such thinking is pervasive in Thailand and is the direct product of an educational system that does not place enough value on teaching rationality, process and evidence finding and evaluation, and distinguishing between speculative hearsay and hard evidence. There are enough foreigners who haven’t gone through the Thai educational system who also engage in this way of thinking. Perhaps it is attitude as well as life experience as well as education that explains why and how mental states arise.
If a grown up could step forward and seek to lead people out of the burnt out emotional valley this would be a start. Instead we are likely to enter a phase of quasi-adolescent posturing, finger pointing and name calling. Should that be the case, the fear is, after a short lull, a renewed protest and violence.
“ Your suggestion that Thai citizens are brainwashed by their upbringing and too baffled to understand what’s going on is rather patronising and ignorant.
Oh come off it Simon, you have to be joking. And I am not being patronising either, Thais are relatively unintelligent it is true (former British Ambassador speaking), but there is no shame in being indoctrinated because it starts as soon as a Thai child is old enough to speak and interpret what they hear. Way too young to apply discrimination, children adopt what they hear from parents pretty much automatically. To suggest that this is not true is remarkable and naive.
“Where are the massacres, coups, media lockdowns, royal interventions and “popular uprisings” predicted by the denizens of this site? They were never on the cards. You can’t judge the mood of the population remotely. Attempts to extrapolate past events and outdated stereotypes will err.”
Say the same in 1 week and I may accept what you say. Come back to us all next Friday. If you are right I will cheerfully say so. But as it happens, I think you are wrong.
“Your implication that the King tossed Thaksin is based on the shaky premise that the King manipulates politics, which an overwhelming majority of citizens would dispute.”
True, because they are peddled the great lie from the cradle to the grave. Whether most people believe it or not has no bearing on its truth or otherwise.
The armed forces put their hand up for that and provided some fairly straightforward and compelling explanations of their motivations.
Oh my goodness, you are very selective in what you believe. 30-day tourist visa was it?
Thailand has had 60 years to judge their King. Result: He is indisputably the most respected person in the country with a street cred second to none. If you seriously attribute this respect to ’social conditioning’ then you seem rather poorly informed to me.
Well Simon, that may be true. If it is true, I would frankly rather be my kind of ill-informed than your kind of informed. There is just too much evidence to the contrary for anyone who is not completely propagandised to take you seriously. Sorry, but you need to read more widely and you need to get out more. Thinking that is shouldn’t be so and that you don’t want it to be so, doesn’t make it not so.
First time I clicked that link, I got the standard ICT message “This website has been blocked by ICT” (in English) plus Thai text in a blue/green-shaded box.
Second click took me through to the article. All subsequent clicks produce the original ICT message.
(TOT ADSL in Chiang Mai)
Tried alternative connection via cellphone (DTAC) – clicked straight through to the article.
Still full access here using TOT ADSL service in Chiang Rai.
Thank you Nick and Andrew for providing us Thais with wonderful insights and analyses. Keep up the good work!
Maybe the ISPs blocking NM posts selectively are the same ISPs that blocked facebook and twitter the first night of the curfew, while other ISPs didn’t. Is there consistency?
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
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Commentary on roots of the Thai crisis
MichaelBkk 13. Interesting analysis. Can you also explain China’s shifting rankings?
Est 2002 rank 129 $4,400
Est 2006 rank 109 $7,600
Est 2009 rank 128 $6,600
Goodness. How did China slip also back so much from 2006 to 2009? One had the sense that the communist central planners there were pushing all the right economic buttons, while the Falangist government in Thailand was doing everything completely wrong. Did Thaksin’s departure from the helm in Thailand also have economic reverberations in his ancestral home? Or was there perhaps something similar happening across Asia? Did the fortuitous entry of several new countries into the rankings in 2009, e.g. Montenegro, also have an impact?
BTW Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is an arithmetical model for calculating theoretical exchange rates based on differences in rates of inflation. What you were referring to is GDP per capita. What you were trying to do is data mining.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
confirmed as censored, plain blocking as a 404 page, there is a variety ob different censorship measures that i could identify.
-silent block that looks like page is not available (404)
-isp level block, i.e. TRUE http://58.97.5.29/court.html
-redirect to cres website http://58.97.5.29/www.capothai.org/
-redirect to mict website http://w3.mict.go.th/
-redirect to “the fern” http://58.97.5.29/ict.html
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
They are doing this because they now see the real, ever-closer danger that their “Thailand’ is going to break up.
I.e. Lanna and Isaarn are going to break free.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Nich – 4
But what happens when you click on this?
Nich I get the “This website has been blocked by ICT” banner. Is it just a page or pages about the Royal family that’s being blocked? In the current posts I don’t think I’m being blocked.
Censorship isn’t very nice whatever side you support.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Many websites are blocked but not New Mandala (so far 16.00)!! Thanks. I get access to many good articles through your websites. I use Loxinfo, AIS, TTT system. I am in Chiang Mai.
London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
re Chris Beale comment #17
I don’t suggest that Suzie Wong is wrong precisely because I, like other armchair commentators, have absolutely no idea what constitutes the truth in all this murk. And that is exactly my point in critiquing your faith in his/her assertions.
For all his/her ‘accurate information’ (Not the Nation post included), without some hard evidence it seems a little previous to equate conjecture with confirmation. If either s/he or you can provide proof that the sniper who took out Seh Daeng was in the Dusit Thani, and there at the bequest of its proprietor and then by association at the bequest of a significant other then I’ll happily shut up.
I would also add that suggesting to others that my critique of your faith in Suzie Wong’s comments to be ‘clues’ may also be remiss.
20 May 1992
Can anyone direct me to an article which offers a decent and balanced analysis of Handley’s book? Handley’s book seems to have become iconised into something of a sacred cow on this forum and I would like to see how it stands up to proper academic analysis. Not because I am against his assertions (many of them seem reasonable), but rather because I would like to read proper academic debate on the topic.
On a separate note, have people see this? Would be interested in your views: http://www.somtow.org/2010/05/dont-blame-dan-rivers.html
Commentary on roots of the Thai crisis
Meeng’s voice is not an uncommon one heard on these matters. He/she is to be commended for airing them on this forum. At the same time, the voice shows that many people’s thoughts are fogged by a combination of high-octane emotions, anecdotal evidence, and anti-foreign bias. Many of the problems in the current turmoil come from non-critical way of thinking. Instead mystical thinking is substituted. Only locals know the truth as if Thailand is a secret Free Mason’s Society. This line of thinking descends into tribalism and belligerence and arrogance.
Such thinking is pervasive in Thailand and is the direct product of an educational system that does not place enough value on teaching rationality, process and evidence finding and evaluation, and distinguishing between speculative hearsay and hard evidence. There are enough foreigners who haven’t gone through the Thai educational system who also engage in this way of thinking. Perhaps it is attitude as well as life experience as well as education that explains why and how mental states arise.
If a grown up could step forward and seek to lead people out of the burnt out emotional valley this would be a start. Instead we are likely to enter a phase of quasi-adolescent posturing, finger pointing and name calling. Should that be the case, the fear is, after a short lull, a renewed protest and violence.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
In Firefox: blank page here (in Bkk) on true network. On Safari: Error message request to sent bug report to apple report
Too many eggs in the royal basket
Nuomi – very good history on vote buying, one more counter argument for me.
20 May 1992
@Simon:
“ Your suggestion that Thai citizens are brainwashed by their upbringing and too baffled to understand what’s going on is rather patronising and ignorant.
Oh come off it Simon, you have to be joking. And I am not being patronising either, Thais are relatively unintelligent it is true (former British Ambassador speaking), but there is no shame in being indoctrinated because it starts as soon as a Thai child is old enough to speak and interpret what they hear. Way too young to apply discrimination, children adopt what they hear from parents pretty much automatically. To suggest that this is not true is remarkable and naive.
“Where are the massacres, coups, media lockdowns, royal interventions and “popular uprisings” predicted by the denizens of this site? They were never on the cards. You can’t judge the mood of the population remotely. Attempts to extrapolate past events and outdated stereotypes will err.”
Say the same in 1 week and I may accept what you say. Come back to us all next Friday. If you are right I will cheerfully say so. But as it happens, I think you are wrong.
“Your implication that the King tossed Thaksin is based on the shaky premise that the King manipulates politics, which an overwhelming majority of citizens would dispute.”
True, because they are peddled the great lie from the cradle to the grave. Whether most people believe it or not has no bearing on its truth or otherwise.
The armed forces put their hand up for that and provided some fairly straightforward and compelling explanations of their motivations.
Oh my goodness, you are very selective in what you believe. 30-day tourist visa was it?
Thailand has had 60 years to judge their King. Result: He is indisputably the most respected person in the country with a street cred second to none. If you seriously attribute this respect to ’social conditioning’ then you seem rather poorly informed to me.
Well Simon, that may be true. If it is true, I would frankly rather be my kind of ill-informed than your kind of informed. There is just too much evidence to the contrary for anyone who is not completely propagandised to take you seriously. Sorry, but you need to read more widely and you need to get out more. Thinking that is shouldn’t be so and that you don’t want it to be so, doesn’t make it not so.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
I’m using 3B, works fine
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Nich (c4)
First time I clicked that link, I got the standard ICT message “This website has been blocked by ICT” (in English) plus Thai text in a blue/green-shaded box.
Second click took me through to the article. All subsequent clicks produce the original ICT message.
(TOT ADSL in Chiang Mai)
Tried alternative connection via cellphone (DTAC) – clicked straight through to the article.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Still full access here using TOT ADSL service in Chiang Rai.
Thank you Nick and Andrew for providing us Thais with wonderful insights and analyses. Keep up the good work!
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Maybe the ISPs blocking NM posts selectively are the same ISPs that blocked facebook and twitter the first night of the curfew, while other ISPs didn’t. Is there consistency?
Are there ISPs that defy the government?
London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
Chris Beale/Jim Taylor: Jim’s link about the Wallons was just a jpg of part of the article. I found the article here:
http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/belgique/2010-05-18/suspension-des-ventes-d-armes-wallonnes-vers-la-thailande-770822.php
It’s in French.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Blocked by CRES via True at 2:55 BKK Time.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
I can no longer access the article linked without using an IP-mask here in Bangkok. All other articles seem accessible.
At least New Mandala gets the CRES url rather than what Spring News TV gets, i.e. the Houseplant of State Censorship: http://58.97.5.29/ict.html
Many thanks for your hard work on the site.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
If I try to access the provided Link to the article of the Prince I get the normal ToT blocked msg.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
I am in Italy and could not see any new content on your website from May 16 to May 19. Yesterday new content became visible again.