“Can they motivate enough people to force the army off the streets as in people power revolutions in other countries? ”
If you are making an analogy to the Philippines in 1986, it is ridiculous.
Thai society is split. If the red shirts were able to seize power by some means, get ready to enter the cycle of protest again, a cycle that has gone on for well over four years now, all over again.
It is a good thing that you pointed out that PM Abhisit has avoided extremist policy lines. He has well thought out policies (albeit difficult to implement). He is not a one man demagogue show like Thaksin. Unfortunately parts of Thai public opinion seems prone to loud Thaksin demogoguery, the one man cult worship mass hysteria approach.
Signore Nostitz, even though I find myself in the royalist-conservative camp in this conflict, I do pray that you remain safe and sound. I enjoy reading your articles. The work you produce is timely, relevant and informative. Kudos to you and your professionalism. Yet minimize your risk. However, it is imperative that you do document as much of the truth as possible. This government and their handlers are determined to destroy the Red Shirts in Bangkok in the next 48 hours and they will take measures to keep the press away from the scene (particularly foreigners) or to censor reports filed by Thai journalists. Use your network and collect all the still images, video and eyewitness accounts possible. Through my contacts within the Thai military, I can tell you that bodies are disappearing and a counter-narrative has been prepared already.
By the way, it is being said amongst certain Thai military circles that the Red Shirts should be called Red Ants for their ability to swarm and to bounce back from the hits. Will David be able to slay Goliath?
There’s only two PEACEFUL ways I can see out of this crisis :
1) His Majesty’s intervention.
HMK appoints Anand a third time, as PM – to sort out this mess, in a just manner.
Extremely difficult – but not impossible – despite Anand’s advanced age, he remains incredibly sharp.
2) the country agrees to separate into different states, under the common monarchical title Siam.
Why don’t you inform about the ROADMAP that the government gave to RED SHIRT
And why don’t you publish the photo of bottle bombs , the burnt garbage truck , and gas cylinders from the protesters.
Sorry to be repetitive but it can’t be said too many times or in too many ways.
While the article is fairly well reasoned and written, the idea that “faith” has been lost is a bit odd. Surely, having “faith” in a non-functioning system would be rather silly.
The Reds lack faith in the integrity of people like Abhisit. Quite rightly, in my opinion, they doubted that his promise of an election come November had any more meaning than his repeated denials the “government” troops are sniping at people in Bangkok.
I’m sure that they would accept an election result were an election to be held, preferably with foreign supervision. Like me, they also probably think that any result that went against the wishes of the elites would be overturned one way or another.
This is not really indicative of a loss of faith in the electoral process so much as a complete and utter distrust of people with the power and the will to subvert it again and again.
Another two people killed appearing at Rama Hospital- no names yet…And another Nor Por Chor platform has been established in Klong Toey by Prateep Ungsongtham Hata and the Thailand Student Association (not sure which branch? anyone know?)
I actually dont think (reference D.Waites #64) that there is any room for a middle ground or inbetween since a legitimately elected government was overthrown in the eighteenth (?) coup; when the progressive and democratic 1997 Constitution was thrown out the window and rewritten by the military and their puppets, and when Abhisit refused to negotiate on equal terms with pro-democracy Nor Por Chor (not just say one thing and do another -which the now named “Butcher of Bangkok” Abhisit is good at); assuming anything like a middle ground anymore is more wishful thinking than reality.
Nick, you are making the world a better place. I can only pray that you follow through with your witnessing and exposing the truth.
It is now your solemn duty to give light to the victims of this continuing atrocity so they don’t disappear from the attention of the public even if the injured and dead are trucked away into oblivion.
You are a brave man, and I hope you can stand up to a government that lost its spine upon conception.
I live right near Ratchaprarop/Din Daeng/Soi Rangnam and it’s real spooky to see all this happening. I’ve been circulating around all of this but I keep my distance. I can’t imagine getting closer and closer to it like some of these journalists like Nick. You are playing with your life! I just hope that Nick doesn’t get unlucky.
Army shooting at photographers (well loads got shot on April 10th and yesterday).
It seems their tactic is to scare away the media, scare away as many people as possible and then perhaps tonight they will send in “killing squads” based on their “curfew” who are licensed to shoot to kill anyone and anything moving.
At least the rest of the world can see what is going on, sadly the Thai media is under total control of the governments propaganda departments, and only shows soldiers injured and claims all reds have guns and are terrorists.
Perhaps why its only reds killed and no soldiers……. how can they lie so openly and with disregard. A government gone crazy !
ANd they had their hands in the air and were showing their cameras, they ran back for cover…
about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
Just got call from friend photog who was walking out of Soi Rangnam with another Cameraman and got shot at by nervous soldiers from abt 80 m
about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
@Peter. If you are right, it must only be the medical profession that still likes the King. Last time he appeared on TV I was in a hospital and all the nurses that could spare a minute from their work were huddled round the TV screen in obvious adulation. Perhaps then the real motive for the red shirts’ storming of Chulalongkorn Hospital was to root out closet monarchists to be displayed on the red stage. I disagree that villagers put portraits of the Royal Family in their houses only out of fear of legal prosecution. What nonsense! Anyway, good luck to Giles in leading his Bolshevik revolution from the city of perspiring dreams where the capitalist bourgeousie and the peasants seem to have got decidedly mixed up.
Bless Bangkok and hopefully this ends soon. Stay safe Nick – Your photo brings an alternative perspective to this conflict and hopefully it is seen by the world.
Taylor, since you have failed to understand my post I will clarify it for you. I do not mean to say that all pro-red posts are ‘idiotic’, merely that some of them are, and that they are being rated as ‘quality’ comments by people purely because they agree with the sentiment. There are plenty of people making excellent contributions on all sides – red, yellow and neutral.
It┬┤s still obvious to western main stream media that
Thailand is looked upon by them as a democracy and that they wouldn┬┤t label what┬┤s going on as a massacre of un armed protesters. Interesting…
I said a while back that Thailand would encounter a Ceausescu scenario, and it is working out that way. I also said that the army would get tired and frightened of the consequences of committing brazen murder under orders and would rebel, that a weary and terrified Anupong would probably do a deal and launch a coup for the Reds.
As outrageous as it seems, I still think that this may happen, in which case, Abhisit, Suthep and others will not face a court but an ad-hoc firing squad. I for one will shed no tears. Not now, not after what they have done.
The stables need cleaning, and it has to happen starting from the top.
The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) argue against the Democrat-led coalition government’s legitimacy and protest for the government to step down and call a general election.
That was democracy.
And the UDD had won.
The goals of the UDD from the very start: They wanted a House dissolution. They will have one in September. They wanted a general election. They will have one on Nov 14. All within seven months and PM Abhisit Vejjajiva’s term actually ends in January 2012, a year and a half from now.
They should be dancing in the streets, celebrating victory. Then we can all go to the voting booth in November. Peace and democracy. But no.
The truth has revealed itself. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship is simply using democracy as a front in the interests of dictatorship.
Refusing the peaceful compromise, forsaking the democratic process, continuing to harm the country for the interests of one man, Thaksin Shinawatra, fighting against security forces of the rightful democratic government of Thailand _ that’s an uprising, it’s a rebellion.
It’s criminal. That is not democracy.
If you disagree with me and think the UDD is in the right, then let me simplify it: The next time you’re pulled over by the law in a traffic stop, you should just burn tyres, shoot slingshots at the cop and call him a dictator.
Anyone with an arrest warrant? No need to surrender. Barricade and fortify your home, fire slingshots and fire-crackers and call the law tyrannical.
Buy a lifetime membership to the Association of Anarchists. You don’t belong in a civilisation.
@AndrewHurd Will go out again tonight if possible. Everything is out of Rajviti Hospital which is in a bad area.
5 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd Most strange was driving on Rama IX highway and the city in darkness except for the red aircraft warning lights on rooftops.
7 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd Soldiers have really gone crazy. Inexperienced troops scared to death shooting at anything that moves.
9 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd One ambulance medic was shot at army checkpoint because didn’t get out of ambulance quick enough. Maybe in afternoon.
9 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd Ambulance crews going out in groups. Scared to death of any soldiers. Saw soldiers at a few staging areas and moved immediately.
11 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd Will write it up but very quiet. Passed Vic Monument right after shooting and grenade attack. After that quiet.
12 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@thaifaq From what I can gather, it is Army shooting into crowds to disperse them.
16 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to thaifaq
Thanks, Nick for this report. We, Thais, do not get these kind of stories from Thai TV or Thai mass media–we got only one-side stories, the government’s side. They call the protesters repeatedly over their TV “armed terrorists”!!
And Peter Boyle, thanks for speaking out for me –I feel exactly like that. You can see traces of the injustice and oppression which has run the country for decades out in the streets of Bangkok these few days. This government does not see people as “their” people but “enemies of the state” to be rid of as challenges of their power. How many lives will have to be given up for “true democracy”?? I wonder.
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A Sunday morning look at Bangkok
“Can they motivate enough people to force the army off the streets as in people power revolutions in other countries? ”
If you are making an analogy to the Philippines in 1986, it is ridiculous.
Thai society is split. If the red shirts were able to seize power by some means, get ready to enter the cycle of protest again, a cycle that has gone on for well over four years now, all over again.
It is a good thing that you pointed out that PM Abhisit has avoided extremist policy lines. He has well thought out policies (albeit difficult to implement). He is not a one man demagogue show like Thaksin. Unfortunately parts of Thai public opinion seems prone to loud Thaksin demogoguery, the one man cult worship mass hysteria approach.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Signore Nostitz, even though I find myself in the royalist-conservative camp in this conflict, I do pray that you remain safe and sound. I enjoy reading your articles. The work you produce is timely, relevant and informative. Kudos to you and your professionalism. Yet minimize your risk. However, it is imperative that you do document as much of the truth as possible. This government and their handlers are determined to destroy the Red Shirts in Bangkok in the next 48 hours and they will take measures to keep the press away from the scene (particularly foreigners) or to censor reports filed by Thai journalists. Use your network and collect all the still images, video and eyewitness accounts possible. Through my contacts within the Thai military, I can tell you that bodies are disappearing and a counter-narrative has been prepared already.
By the way, it is being said amongst certain Thai military circles that the Red Shirts should be called Red Ants for their ability to swarm and to bounce back from the hits. Will David be able to slay Goliath?
A Sunday morning look at Bangkok
There’s only two PEACEFUL ways I can see out of this crisis :
1) His Majesty’s intervention.
HMK appoints Anand a third time, as PM – to sort out this mess, in a just manner.
Extremely difficult – but not impossible – despite Anand’s advanced age, he remains incredibly sharp.
2) the country agrees to separate into different states, under the common monarchical title Siam.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Why don’t you inform about the ROADMAP that the government gave to RED SHIRT
And why don’t you publish the photo of bottle bombs , the burnt garbage truck , and gas cylinders from the protesters.
Reds’ fatal flaw: Thailand’s fatal flaw
Sorry to be repetitive but it can’t be said too many times or in too many ways.
While the article is fairly well reasoned and written, the idea that “faith” has been lost is a bit odd. Surely, having “faith” in a non-functioning system would be rather silly.
The Reds lack faith in the integrity of people like Abhisit. Quite rightly, in my opinion, they doubted that his promise of an election come November had any more meaning than his repeated denials the “government” troops are sniping at people in Bangkok.
I’m sure that they would accept an election result were an election to be held, preferably with foreign supervision. Like me, they also probably think that any result that went against the wishes of the elites would be overturned one way or another.
This is not really indicative of a loss of faith in the electoral process so much as a complete and utter distrust of people with the power and the will to subvert it again and again.
There is a difference.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Nick, Thailand thanks you. Continue to tell the truth to power. But be safe!
Bangkok at war
Another two people killed appearing at Rama Hospital- no names yet…And another Nor Por Chor platform has been established in Klong Toey by Prateep Ungsongtham Hata and the Thailand Student Association (not sure which branch? anyone know?)
I actually dont think (reference D.Waites #64) that there is any room for a middle ground or inbetween since a legitimately elected government was overthrown in the eighteenth (?) coup; when the progressive and democratic 1997 Constitution was thrown out the window and rewritten by the military and their puppets, and when Abhisit refused to negotiate on equal terms with pro-democracy Nor Por Chor (not just say one thing and do another -which the now named “Butcher of Bangkok” Abhisit is good at); assuming anything like a middle ground anymore is more wishful thinking than reality.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Nick, you are making the world a better place. I can only pray that you follow through with your witnessing and exposing the truth.
It is now your solemn duty to give light to the victims of this continuing atrocity so they don’t disappear from the attention of the public even if the injured and dead are trucked away into oblivion.
You are a brave man, and I hope you can stand up to a government that lost its spine upon conception.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
I live right near Ratchaprarop/Din Daeng/Soi Rangnam and it’s real spooky to see all this happening. I’ve been circulating around all of this but I keep my distance. I can’t imagine getting closer and closer to it like some of these journalists like Nick. You are playing with your life! I just hope that Nick doesn’t get unlucky.
Bangkok at war
Army shooting at photographers (well loads got shot on April 10th and yesterday).
It seems their tactic is to scare away the media, scare away as many people as possible and then perhaps tonight they will send in “killing squads” based on their “curfew” who are licensed to shoot to kill anyone and anything moving.
At least the rest of the world can see what is going on, sadly the Thai media is under total control of the governments propaganda departments, and only shows soldiers injured and claims all reds have guns and are terrorists.
Perhaps why its only reds killed and no soldiers……. how can they lie so openly and with disregard. A government gone crazy !
http://twitter.com/bretonbkk
ANd they had their hands in the air and were showing their cameras, they ran back for cover…
about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
Just got call from friend photog who was walking out of Soi Rangnam with another Cameraman and got shot at by nervous soldiers from abt 80 m
about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
Bangkok at war
@Peter. If you are right, it must only be the medical profession that still likes the King. Last time he appeared on TV I was in a hospital and all the nurses that could spare a minute from their work were huddled round the TV screen in obvious adulation. Perhaps then the real motive for the red shirts’ storming of Chulalongkorn Hospital was to root out closet monarchists to be displayed on the red stage. I disagree that villagers put portraits of the Royal Family in their houses only out of fear of legal prosecution. What nonsense! Anyway, good luck to Giles in leading his Bolshevik revolution from the city of perspiring dreams where the capitalist bourgeousie and the peasants seem to have got decidedly mixed up.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Bless Bangkok and hopefully this ends soon. Stay safe Nick – Your photo brings an alternative perspective to this conflict and hopefully it is seen by the world.
Abhisit needs to payfor this.
Bangkok at war
Taylor, since you have failed to understand my post I will clarify it for you. I do not mean to say that all pro-red posts are ‘idiotic’, merely that some of them are, and that they are being rated as ‘quality’ comments by people purely because they agree with the sentiment. There are plenty of people making excellent contributions on all sides – red, yellow and neutral.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Nick!
It┬┤s still obvious to western main stream media that
Thailand is looked upon by them as a democracy and that they wouldn┬┤t label what┬┤s going on as a massacre of un armed protesters. Interesting…
ThC, Sweden
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
I said a while back that Thailand would encounter a Ceausescu scenario, and it is working out that way. I also said that the army would get tired and frightened of the consequences of committing brazen murder under orders and would rebel, that a weary and terrified Anupong would probably do a deal and launch a coup for the Reds.
As outrageous as it seems, I still think that this may happen, in which case, Abhisit, Suthep and others will not face a court but an ad-hoc firing squad. I for one will shed no tears. Not now, not after what they have done.
The stables need cleaning, and it has to happen starting from the top.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Excerpt from Bangkok Post opinion
The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) argue against the Democrat-led coalition government’s legitimacy and protest for the government to step down and call a general election.
That was democracy.
And the UDD had won.
The goals of the UDD from the very start: They wanted a House dissolution. They will have one in September. They wanted a general election. They will have one on Nov 14. All within seven months and PM Abhisit Vejjajiva’s term actually ends in January 2012, a year and a half from now.
They should be dancing in the streets, celebrating victory. Then we can all go to the voting booth in November. Peace and democracy. But no.
The truth has revealed itself. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship is simply using democracy as a front in the interests of dictatorship.
Refusing the peaceful compromise, forsaking the democratic process, continuing to harm the country for the interests of one man, Thaksin Shinawatra, fighting against security forces of the rightful democratic government of Thailand _ that’s an uprising, it’s a rebellion.
It’s criminal. That is not democracy.
If you disagree with me and think the UDD is in the right, then let me simplify it: The next time you’re pulled over by the law in a traffic stop, you should just burn tyres, shoot slingshots at the cop and call him a dictator.
Anyone with an arrest warrant? No need to surrender. Barricade and fortify your home, fire slingshots and fire-crackers and call the law tyrannical.
Buy a lifetime membership to the Association of Anarchists. You don’t belong in a civilisation.
Bangkok at war
Army shooting at medics and civilians and anybody moving :
http://twitter.com/bkkbase
@AndrewHurd Will go out again tonight if possible. Everything is out of Rajviti Hospital which is in a bad area.
5 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd Most strange was driving on Rama IX highway and the city in darkness except for the red aircraft warning lights on rooftops.
7 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd Soldiers have really gone crazy. Inexperienced troops scared to death shooting at anything that moves.
9 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd One ambulance medic was shot at army checkpoint because didn’t get out of ambulance quick enough. Maybe in afternoon.
9 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd Ambulance crews going out in groups. Scared to death of any soldiers. Saw soldiers at a few staging areas and moved immediately.
11 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@AndrewHurd Will write it up but very quiet. Passed Vic Monument right after shooting and grenade attack. After that quiet.
12 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to AndrewHurd
@thaifaq From what I can gather, it is Army shooting into crowds to disperse them.
16 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to thaifaq
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
I’m lost for words. Incredible story, Nick.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Thanks, Nick for this report. We, Thais, do not get these kind of stories from Thai TV or Thai mass media–we got only one-side stories, the government’s side. They call the protesters repeatedly over their TV “armed terrorists”!!
And Peter Boyle, thanks for speaking out for me –I feel exactly like that. You can see traces of the injustice and oppression which has run the country for decades out in the streets of Bangkok these few days. This government does not see people as “their” people but “enemies of the state” to be rid of as challenges of their power. How many lives will have to be given up for “true democracy”?? I wonder.
Bangkok at war
HRW demands “revoke the live fire zones”
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/05/15/thailand-revoke-live-fire-zones-bangkok
=