I also think that as long as the monarchy is the H-Bomb of Thai politics, it’s impossible to ever have any real debate or change. This whole monarchy business really does have the Tito effect – getting rid of it will doubtless cause much human suffering, but the longer it it drags on, the more blood will be spilled in the end.
Also, in addition to providing convenient cover / aegis for corrupt generals to do their things, ‘love of the king’ provides a kind of moral blanket for *all* dodgy Thais. A corrupt traffic policeman stands at the roadside saluting a royal motorcade and doubtless quietly absolves himself of any bad joss for what he’s been getting up to as a uniformed street criminal.
Since the king is the be-all and end-all of all Thai virtues, one can do just about anything and then square the karma ledger by ‘loving the king’.
Ian Franklin 31
“operating upon the emotions of the individuals in the masses and avoiding relevant arguments as much as possible.”
A good description of the lese-majeste law then?
The tactics you talk about are not confined to fascists but any extremist ideology. The fascination of this debacle is that both sides accuse each other of double-standards and both sides are guilty of same and both sides cannot compromise and are becomng increasingly polarised.
I personally blame this on fascist indoctrination, militarism and rampant nationalism introduced by Pibulsongkram and refined by Luang Pradhit in the late 30’s and honed and polished by all stakeholders (including Thaksin) ever since.
As can be seen the lese-majeste law card is hurled by both all parties and only serves to tarnish and corrode the institution of monarchy.
Something I suspect HM was well aware of and warned against in cosier times. This law is the duct-tape wrapped around the pressure cooker of public-strife (now there’s an analogy!)
I think it’s now too late for anyone to remove without scalding their fingers. Lets hope things stop short of Pol-Pots Cambodia or Ne-win’s Burma.
Sattahibo – You didn’t realized that Abhisit was elected by members of parties, which were never elected by any Thais, ig. Bhum-jai-tai.
The concern about his action against the constitution on the issue of presenting the government policies in the paliament with the present oppositions and advance notice about the date and time and doccumented policies, so the opposition may have questions on policies.
He never follow that order from the constitution .
And now, your sample about Kevin, as if Kevin ordered the military with war weapons, tanks and real bullet to take over the demonstrators’ site in the dark, which result to 25 death of the Australians……
Could you imagine about the response from the civilians??????
I bet that, there will be so many people asking Kevin for the responsibilities.
I actually like Suthep’s move on arresting Chauvalit yesterday on the anti-monarchy charge, despite his age and somewhat unreliable look, the man graduated at the top of his class and has many soldiers loyal to him, and I’m not talking about those low ranking field officers, but those in the Arm force high command and the cream of the crop from the operational unites, it would be very risky to fight with the guy like Chauvalit.
The plot to overthrow the monarchy by the Red Shirts may not be proved but the intention of that is fait accompli. The so-called comunity radio stations dj’s daily attack the Thai monarchy and political debates by the Red Shirts leaders are evident enough. Please wait and see.
The Abhisit Administration has to maintain law and order. Imagine that some Aussies are gathering in Canberra and telling Kevin Rudd to step down; what would all Australians thinkl about that? Kevin was elected by Australians; why would he step down? Abhisit would have the same answer as Kevin.
“When watching Abhisit, always turn the sound down if you want to get the true picture of what’s happening. The Oxonian Dr Jekyll is in reality Mr Hyde.”
Absolutely. Studies have shown that up to 80% of the content of speech has little to do with the words. With Abhisit, as wit all deceivers, once you have the gist of the words, turn the sound down and watch.
To someone skilled at watching and understanding unconscious modes of communication, watching Abhisit without sound is very instructive. Frankly if I shook hands with him, I would count my fingers shortly after and there is no way I would accept anything he said on its face value. If he said it was raining I would go to the window and check.
He tells the truth when he says he will not call an election, this is clear. Most of the what else he says is a pack of lies and should treated as such. Worse still, it is probably easier to spot than just about any other politician, even if you ignore the strange contortions of his mouth when he wants to smile in public – those are just because he self-conscious about his teeth.
Thailand is ruled by retired and serving military with 700 generals heavily involved in legal and illegal business. Their power is secured by the fiction of protection of the monarchy and massive wealth and influence links with all the important economic structures in Thailand.
For examples, the Thai military own Banks, TV, radio and are represented and control the airlines, construction, manufacturing, agriculture.
The military are active in managing the politics of Thailand and work in many capacities in all regions of Thailand. The military controls legal and illegal labour flows across the borders and the insurgency in the south and are immune from legal and government oversight. The government exists only to provide stories and excuses for their actions.
Full franchise democratic elections are a direct threat to the military because they take the power of choice of MPs from them and worse, elected governments can claim the authority of the people and introduce controls on the military.
After he was elected Thaksin was foolish and brave enough to introduce some controls, there were calls that he was “interfering with the military promotions and reshuffle” (which a democratic government has a duty to do) and “threatening the monarchy” which he wasnt, but the military always falls back on this to secure their power.
It is the challenge for every government to try to bring the military under control. Abhisit cannnot because he cannot claim the mandate of the people.
The redshirts want free and fair elections so their government can claim the authority to rule Thailand and at least try to control the military.
The delta Karens have been gradually swallowed by the Burmese and slowly becoming Burmese like the now-extinct delta Mons before them many centuries ago.
The Karen rebellion based on just handful of Christian Karens is now struggling just to survive on the border thanks only to some elements of Thai army and the sympathetic foreign missionaries.
I don’t know where to begin with that map… other than to sigh. Or laugh. Or both at the same time. This leads to a peaceful ‘ohm’ and imagining the brutal crackdown being made with guns that fire apple toffee and fairy floss.
Michael – thanks for the diagram info. Downloaded and I am going to use it as a Ph.D. dissertation on what idle minds can come up with if given 18 opportunities.
As said before, government in Thailand is merely a custodian for the guys behind the scenes using the monarchy to stay at the top. Not a single government in the entire history of Thailand has really governed the people – they just follow directions.
The emperor’s clothes were only on for those who believed the fable.
Mungo Gubbins, I think the authors of the ‘Idiots Guide to Brutal Crackdowns’ have the most to gain from removing red-shirt fodder because it will improve their sales. The list of acknowledgments from Abhisit, Suthep, Anupong and Sansern could be made in the form of a map of those responsible (the current elite) like the plot map to overthrow the monarchy. Yes, even though I wont be in the acknowledgment map, I am wringing my hands with glee vicariously thinking of all the profit they’ll make from sales of the book. Am I not allowed to be happy for them?!
There are plenty of “single issue” movements that are similar to the Redshirts. I could name dozens of them but would think most people commenting here would be familiar with them.
According to your analysis and analogy pretty much all of them would would be tarred with the same utterly ludicrous Nazi brush. This is as disingenuous as it is absurd.
The original Nazi movement sprang out of a nexus of ex-soldiers – the SA – and an amalgamation of weirdos, nationalists and petit bourgeoisie. It was very militaristic and so was quite regimented and staged. It was focused on racial purity and national advancement.
The Redshirts are largely the Thai underclass wishing to have their electoral choices respected.
Yes, they hold meetings, rallies, have speakers, repeat messages.
But I’ve witnessed the same at CND rallies, free Nelson Mandela concerts in the 1980s and even, to a small degree, at the Women’s Institute.
Your eulogy of Abhisit is also redundant. His enlightenment has only added to the huge pile of corpses the Thai elite have had to trample on to hang onto their outdated, outmoded, redundant, ahistorical, backward, oppressive privilege.
Or could you be one of the poor unfortunates who actually believes that Eton creates human beings?
Dan,
The Karens are anti-drug, so your statement on that point is ridiculous.
Insofar as the logistical tail that you mention – the KNLA has a far easier time getting supplies into its operational areas than the SPDC does. They’re right on the border, with access to paved roads, excellent medical care (for that part of the world) and sophisticated population centers.
What will defeat the Karen is the worlds demand for cheap fuel, and the accompanying indifference to the suffering of the Burmese people – all its people, not just the Karen.
#1 “Brutal Crackdowns’ by Abhisit, Suthep, Anupong and Sansern.” Wringing your hands with glee at the prospect of more martyrs for the great cause? Who has the most to gain from the killing of red-shirt foot-soldiers? The current elite, or the wannabe’s?
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Clash at National Monument
Of course Abhisit was elected as an MP, but as a PM ?
Let us ask this question to Newin and wait for his answer.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
Well said, Mister Brown. All correct.
I also think that as long as the monarchy is the H-Bomb of Thai politics, it’s impossible to ever have any real debate or change. This whole monarchy business really does have the Tito effect – getting rid of it will doubtless cause much human suffering, but the longer it it drags on, the more blood will be spilled in the end.
Also, in addition to providing convenient cover / aegis for corrupt generals to do their things, ‘love of the king’ provides a kind of moral blanket for *all* dodgy Thais. A corrupt traffic policeman stands at the roadside saluting a royal motorcade and doubtless quietly absolves himself of any bad joss for what he’s been getting up to as a uniformed street criminal.
Since the king is the be-all and end-all of all Thai virtues, one can do just about anything and then square the karma ledger by ‘loving the king’.
Suthep threatens arrests
Ian Franklin 31
“operating upon the emotions of the individuals in the masses and avoiding relevant arguments as much as possible.”
A good description of the lese-majeste law then?
The tactics you talk about are not confined to fascists but any extremist ideology. The fascination of this debacle is that both sides accuse each other of double-standards and both sides are guilty of same and both sides cannot compromise and are becomng increasingly polarised.
I personally blame this on fascist indoctrination, militarism and rampant nationalism introduced by Pibulsongkram and refined by Luang Pradhit in the late 30’s and honed and polished by all stakeholders (including Thaksin) ever since.
As can be seen the lese-majeste law card is hurled by both all parties and only serves to tarnish and corrode the institution of monarchy.
Something I suspect HM was well aware of and warned against in cosier times. This law is the duct-tape wrapped around the pressure cooker of public-strife (now there’s an analogy!)
I think it’s now too late for anyone to remove without scalding their fingers. Lets hope things stop short of Pol-Pots Cambodia or Ne-win’s Burma.
Newins Thailand perhaps??
Clash at National Monument
Sattahibo – You didn’t realized that Abhisit was elected by members of parties, which were never elected by any Thais, ig. Bhum-jai-tai.
The concern about his action against the constitution on the issue of presenting the government policies in the paliament with the present oppositions and advance notice about the date and time and doccumented policies, so the opposition may have questions on policies.
He never follow that order from the constitution .
And now, your sample about Kevin, as if Kevin ordered the military with war weapons, tanks and real bullet to take over the demonstrators’ site in the dark, which result to 25 death of the Australians……
Could you imagine about the response from the civilians??????
I bet that, there will be so many people asking Kevin for the responsibilities.
Suthep threatens arrests
I actually like Suthep’s move on arresting Chauvalit yesterday on the anti-monarchy charge, despite his age and somewhat unreliable look, the man graduated at the top of his class and has many soldiers loyal to him, and I’m not talking about those low ranking field officers, but those in the Arm force high command and the cream of the crop from the operational unites, it would be very risky to fight with the guy like Chauvalit.
Clash at National Monument
Sattahibo – now the question is, did Abhisit get elected? now that’s quite hard to answer isnt it?
Suthep threatens arrests
The plot to overthrow the monarchy by the Red Shirts may not be proved but the intention of that is fait accompli. The so-called comunity radio stations dj’s daily attack the Thai monarchy and political debates by the Red Shirts leaders are evident enough. Please wait and see.
Clash at National Monument
The Abhisit Administration has to maintain law and order. Imagine that some Aussies are gathering in Canberra and telling Kevin Rudd to step down; what would all Australians thinkl about that? Kevin was elected by Australians; why would he step down? Abhisit would have the same answer as Kevin.
Clash at National Monument
@JFL:
“When watching Abhisit, always turn the sound down if you want to get the true picture of what’s happening. The Oxonian Dr Jekyll is in reality Mr Hyde.”
Absolutely. Studies have shown that up to 80% of the content of speech has little to do with the words. With Abhisit, as wit all deceivers, once you have the gist of the words, turn the sound down and watch.
To someone skilled at watching and understanding unconscious modes of communication, watching Abhisit without sound is very instructive. Frankly if I shook hands with him, I would count my fingers shortly after and there is no way I would accept anything he said on its face value. If he said it was raining I would go to the window and check.
He tells the truth when he says he will not call an election, this is clear. Most of the what else he says is a pack of lies and should treated as such. Worse still, it is probably easier to spot than just about any other politician, even if you ignore the strange contortions of his mouth when he wants to smile in public – those are just because he self-conscious about his teeth.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
Thailand is ruled by retired and serving military with 700 generals heavily involved in legal and illegal business. Their power is secured by the fiction of protection of the monarchy and massive wealth and influence links with all the important economic structures in Thailand.
For examples, the Thai military own Banks, TV, radio and are represented and control the airlines, construction, manufacturing, agriculture.
The military are active in managing the politics of Thailand and work in many capacities in all regions of Thailand. The military controls legal and illegal labour flows across the borders and the insurgency in the south and are immune from legal and government oversight. The government exists only to provide stories and excuses for their actions.
Full franchise democratic elections are a direct threat to the military because they take the power of choice of MPs from them and worse, elected governments can claim the authority of the people and introduce controls on the military.
After he was elected Thaksin was foolish and brave enough to introduce some controls, there were calls that he was “interfering with the military promotions and reshuffle” (which a democratic government has a duty to do) and “threatening the monarchy” which he wasnt, but the military always falls back on this to secure their power.
It is the challenge for every government to try to bring the military under control. Abhisit cannnot because he cannot claim the mandate of the people.
The redshirts want free and fair elections so their government can claim the authority to rule Thailand and at least try to control the military.
The Republic of Kawthoolei and Thomas Bleming
The delta Karens have been gradually swallowed by the Burmese and slowly becoming Burmese like the now-extinct delta Mons before them many centuries ago.
The Karen rebellion based on just handful of Christian Karens is now struggling just to survive on the border thanks only to some elements of Thai army and the sympathetic foreign missionaries.
Suthep threatens arrests
I saw a photograph of Chavalit on Thai news last night.
He was wearing a hat…I think.
Anyway, this attrociously blurred masterpiece reminded me of Colonel Sanders more than a kingpin of conspiracy.
Clash at National Monument
Didn’t have to wait long, did you, Colum?
Suthep threatens arrests
I don’t know where to begin with that map… other than to sigh. Or laugh. Or both at the same time. This leads to a peaceful ‘ohm’ and imagining the brutal crackdown being made with guns that fire apple toffee and fairy floss.
Suthep threatens arrests
Michael – thanks for the diagram info. Downloaded and I am going to use it as a Ph.D. dissertation on what idle minds can come up with if given 18 opportunities.
As said before, government in Thailand is merely a custodian for the guys behind the scenes using the monarchy to stay at the top. Not a single government in the entire history of Thailand has really governed the people – they just follow directions.
The emperor’s clothes were only on for those who believed the fable.
Clash at National Monument
Mungo Gubbins, I think the authors of the ‘Idiots Guide to Brutal Crackdowns’ have the most to gain from removing red-shirt fodder because it will improve their sales. The list of acknowledgments from Abhisit, Suthep, Anupong and Sansern could be made in the form of a map of those responsible (the current elite) like the plot map to overthrow the monarchy. Yes, even though I wont be in the acknowledgment map, I am wringing my hands with glee vicariously thinking of all the profit they’ll make from sales of the book. Am I not allowed to be happy for them?!
Suthep threatens arrests
Ian Franklin
There are plenty of “single issue” movements that are similar to the Redshirts. I could name dozens of them but would think most people commenting here would be familiar with them.
According to your analysis and analogy pretty much all of them would would be tarred with the same utterly ludicrous Nazi brush. This is as disingenuous as it is absurd.
The original Nazi movement sprang out of a nexus of ex-soldiers – the SA – and an amalgamation of weirdos, nationalists and petit bourgeoisie. It was very militaristic and so was quite regimented and staged. It was focused on racial purity and national advancement.
The Redshirts are largely the Thai underclass wishing to have their electoral choices respected.
Yes, they hold meetings, rallies, have speakers, repeat messages.
But I’ve witnessed the same at CND rallies, free Nelson Mandela concerts in the 1980s and even, to a small degree, at the Women’s Institute.
Your eulogy of Abhisit is also redundant. His enlightenment has only added to the huge pile of corpses the Thai elite have had to trample on to hang onto their outdated, outmoded, redundant, ahistorical, backward, oppressive privilege.
Or could you be one of the poor unfortunates who actually believes that Eton creates human beings?
The Republic of Kawthoolei and Thomas Bleming
Dan,
The Karens are anti-drug, so your statement on that point is ridiculous.
Insofar as the logistical tail that you mention – the KNLA has a far easier time getting supplies into its operational areas than the SPDC does. They’re right on the border, with access to paved roads, excellent medical care (for that part of the world) and sophisticated population centers.
What will defeat the Karen is the worlds demand for cheap fuel, and the accompanying indifference to the suffering of the Burmese people – all its people, not just the Karen.
Clash at National Monument
#1 “Brutal Crackdowns’ by Abhisit, Suthep, Anupong and Sansern.” Wringing your hands with glee at the prospect of more martyrs for the great cause? Who has the most to gain from the killing of red-shirt foot-soldiers? The current elite, or the wannabe’s?
Suthep threatens arrests
Ji Ungpakorn has come up with his own diagram describing the Ammarts. I’m not gonna say what’s on it…