Does anyone have a legible copy of that infamous chart? All the links I have seen show only a small copy that when expanded is totally unreadable.
Thanks.
[AW: here is a copy.]
It is really strange that the government says “No one can violate the king” and the king has said “I want to be violated.” Now, is this not offensive to the monarchy?
Leah, re. the Constitutional Court, I notice the King’s first speech since the Red Shirt occuptation was given a couple of days ago to the newly appointed judges.
Of course, no connection there to the upcoming case with the Dems. I mean, it’s not like there’s any precident for this sort of thing.
Very interesting piece and I think it gives us all a lot of food for thought, even taking into account that not everything can be substantiated.
I actually feel that Polo’s response probably gets even closer to the truth of the situation, with regard to rival cliques and paths upwards to ultimate command and loyalty. A longer opinion piece from you would be most welcome…
Court to consider Democrat case
Published: 28/04/2010 at 03:34 PM
Online news: Local News
The Constitution Court on Wednesday resolved to accept for consideration an Election Commission’s petition seeking dissolution of the ruling Democrat Party for alleged misuse of the 29 million baht political party development fund, court secretary-general Chaowana Traimas said.
The resolution was made at a meeting of the Constitution Court judges.
Mr Chaowana said the meeting agreed that the EC’s petition was complete in line with Articles 62 and 65 of the 1998 Political Party Act and Articles 82 and 93 of the 2007 Political Party Act.
The Democrat Party is required to submit a defence statement in 15 days of receiving the court’s notice, he said.
Does anyone have any insight into the treatment of the two cases against the Democrats?
I had understood that the evidence in the TPI election funds case was extremely strong, but know little about the party funds case. I believe both involve party leaders and could could be a reason for dissolving the Democrats.
The latter seems to be moving through the system very quickly, while the former has not been passed on.
You are about three years late. Junta apologists have been making this Hitler claim for a long time already.
It’s utterly baseless and could far better be applied to the other side, where there is a fundamentalist ideology, demand for loyalty, subjection of self to leadership, etc.
The only thing in your comment I agree with is that the 2007 constitution prohibits the development of democracy. But you don’t seem to realize that 1) it was put in place by the current leadership (army created it, yellows protect it, Aphisit prevents changes to it), and 2) its purpose was to prevent democracy.
@23 Nobody:
Sure, gossip is gossip, but some gossip are more consistent with facts observed.
The more striking fact at the moment is that armed forces, starting from the commander-in-chief Gen. Anupong show a clear reluctance to heed the governmental authority’s instructions to break the Rajprasong protest.
Anupong did recommend Abhisit to dissolve parliament and continues to push publicly for a political solution instead of relying on the use of force.
Anupong is no red-shirt apologist, so there must be a huge reason behind his stance and this piece provides a very plausible theory on what that reason is.
Notwithstanding the point that the author might have done some speculation and/or might have been given distorted information by some people whom he talked with, overall the article sits very well with what is actually happening (or not happening for that matter).
I am surprised to see the support that the ‘reds’ receive here. To me there is a clear parallel between the way that the mass of reds are being manipulated and the tactics used by Hitler’s national socialist movement in pre war Germany so to me this looks like a ‘fascist’ movement rather than a spontaneous uprising of a downtrodden underclass.
The key to the growth of the national socialist movement was to avoid any ‘argumentation’ and instead to concentrate on emotional manipulation. This approach was clearly outlined in Mein Kampf and was the mass psychology used in Germany. To me, this is a very frightening movement. When I listen to the red leaders, I don’t hear policy, I don’t learn how the underclass will benefit economically and through a system of social justice. Indeed Thailand, with its present constitution and character can not and will not be democratic, even if a snap election were called. Money for votes, privileges for those with good connections and police watching who you vote for – I wouldn’t call that democratic. Bear in mind too that only those with university degrees can stand for election and it adds up to a society that will continue in the same way because, what should be a popular uprising for a fair and democratic society, is really an emotionally charged and manipulated mass who are simply being used to serve the interests of one part of the ruling classes. The PM is doing the best he can and is certainly the first enlightened PM the country has had. he knows what he is up against – that he has lasted so long in this sea of sharks speaks volumes for an intelligent and courageous individual.
I don’t what you people are talking about. The Chart is fairly accurate, the only notable exceptions being the ommission of the Illuminati and the Rand Corporation.
“It is more likely that the government’s aim in making public this alleged plot to overthrow the monarchy is to create the conditions for the government to justify the use of extreme force in cracking down on the Red Shirts.”
Maybe but I don’t think so. I suspect the Abhisit govermentnet has long realised it is losing the war and has become increasingly shrill and ridiculous trying to up the ante until they get some popular support.
This card is the trump card though, if this doesn’t work there is nothing at all left.
C5. Agree on the generational thing. There are lots of powerful positons opening up making the power struggle quite complicated it would seem. There is also a once in a lifetime opportunity to access a very powerful business group too.
With Suthep and Abhisit dont you just get the feeling that there a more extreme group just busting to get rid of them and really play hardball.
I just love gossip but. There may even be something to it. You never know.
I do hope those praising this article though arent the same people who criticse the Nation for printing unsubstaniated rumours;)
Didnt the unit insignia in one of the photos suggest a certain unit was operating behind red lines? I thought that had led to certain other theories on who was behind the shooting. Still maybe I digress
Agree with Chris and Luecha. Thailand is in a complete vacuum when it comes to strong and honest leadership. Politics drifts from one military government to the next, with intervening periods of different colours – hardly a recipe for a progressive nation and strong economy.
Thai culture seems obsessed with the past, unable to get to grips with the systems (legal, technical, bureaucratic) and practices (transparency, accountability, responsibility) necessary for a functioning democracy.
For now, this country appears to have more and more in common with Burma (fascist state, propaganda, censorship, draconian laws) and it’s leadership seem happy to do so.
The crack down will come, I’m sure of that, they are just waiting for the the moment when the protester got exhausted.
Btw, I saw this interview video in facebook about the mother who happened to join the red and her son who happen to be on the 2nd division during to crack down on the 10th. I dont know whether to call this fate or coincident, the son was shooting at the protester (Didn’t say whether its a rubber or live round) for a while until he saw a pair of eyes on the other side of his line. It was his mother standing right in front of the soldier line trying to push the front line soldiers back. The son burst into tear and run to his mother, about half way before he could get to her, he got shot in the leg.
Watching the interview made me realize that many of the low ranking private are no one but son of those poor farmers, just think of that I’m pretty sure that even among the private the moral isnt too high either.
According to the Red Shirts’ leadership it is because, according to Pi Malakul, “the highest senior person” (р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Гр╕лр╕Нр╣Ир╕кр╕╣р╕Зр╕кр╕╕р╕Ф) has strictly forbidden it.
Obviously this is a reference to the King, since there is no-one “higher” than him, and Pi Malakul is known to be a close friend (р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕кр╕лр╕▓р╕в) of the King.
Whether it is true or not can be debated. But the real significance is that the Red Shirts leadership are now telling their supporters in very clear language that it is the King who is behind Abhisit and the government they are fighting against.
Tench. Their fight against inequality. e.g. Anytime they try to express themselves they are denied. It starts at school they are denied to ask questions. The media deny to allow them to express themselves i.e. media do not show anything that is negative to the elite.
The speech that WAS heard:
I have just watched the P.M’s light toasting on BBC’s “Hard-Talk” I will be writing to suggest they rename it “Soft-Ball”
It was obvious that certain key topics were agreed to be off-limits before the interview began. The one about the unmentionables and any discussion of divisions within the military.
He muddled unintelligibly through the question of not having a political mandate from the people and the realignment of political power groups that undermined the electoral system that bought him (and Thaksin) to power.
He tried to put forward the notion of the red-shirt protest as violent and aggressive and resorted to the terrorist epithet for the convenience of bewildered viewers with a short attention span.
When asked if he would impose Martial Law he explained that that was entirely up to the military and nothing to do with him, a mere Prime Minister.
So at least that’s clear!
“We’re denied the chance to openly declare our fight”
Interesting. What is it they haven’t declared openly? Not the dissolution of parliament, that’s out in the open; not replacing the military-drafted constitution, that’s been mentioned.
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Suthep threatens arrests
Does anyone have a legible copy of that infamous chart? All the links I have seen show only a small copy that when expanded is totally unreadable.
Thanks.
[AW: here is a copy.]
Suthep threatens arrests
It is really strange that the government says “No one can violate the king” and the king has said “I want to be violated.” Now, is this not offensive to the monarchy?
Suthep threatens arrests
Leah, re. the Constitutional Court, I notice the King’s first speech since the Red Shirt occuptation was given a couple of days ago to the newly appointed judges.
Of course, no connection there to the upcoming case with the Dems. I mean, it’s not like there’s any precident for this sort of thing.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
Very interesting piece and I think it gives us all a lot of food for thought, even taking into account that not everything can be substantiated.
I actually feel that Polo’s response probably gets even closer to the truth of the situation, with regard to rival cliques and paths upwards to ultimate command and loyalty. A longer opinion piece from you would be most welcome…
Suthep threatens arrests
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/176139/court-to-consider-democrat-case
Court to consider Democrat case
Published: 28/04/2010 at 03:34 PM
Online news: Local News
The Constitution Court on Wednesday resolved to accept for consideration an Election Commission’s petition seeking dissolution of the ruling Democrat Party for alleged misuse of the 29 million baht political party development fund, court secretary-general Chaowana Traimas said.
The resolution was made at a meeting of the Constitution Court judges.
Mr Chaowana said the meeting agreed that the EC’s petition was complete in line with Articles 62 and 65 of the 1998 Political Party Act and Articles 82 and 93 of the 2007 Political Party Act.
The Democrat Party is required to submit a defence statement in 15 days of receiving the court’s notice, he said.
Suthep threatens arrests
Does anyone have any insight into the treatment of the two cases against the Democrats?
I had understood that the evidence in the TPI election funds case was extremely strong, but know little about the party funds case. I believe both involve party leaders and could could be a reason for dissolving the Democrats.
The latter seems to be moving through the system very quickly, while the former has not been passed on.
Any interpretation?
Suthep threatens arrests
Ian,
You are about three years late. Junta apologists have been making this Hitler claim for a long time already.
It’s utterly baseless and could far better be applied to the other side, where there is a fundamentalist ideology, demand for loyalty, subjection of self to leadership, etc.
The only thing in your comment I agree with is that the 2007 constitution prohibits the development of democracy. But you don’t seem to realize that 1) it was put in place by the current leadership (army created it, yellows protect it, Aphisit prevents changes to it), and 2) its purpose was to prevent democracy.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
@23 Nobody:
Sure, gossip is gossip, but some gossip are more consistent with facts observed.
The more striking fact at the moment is that armed forces, starting from the commander-in-chief Gen. Anupong show a clear reluctance to heed the governmental authority’s instructions to break the Rajprasong protest.
Anupong did recommend Abhisit to dissolve parliament and continues to push publicly for a political solution instead of relying on the use of force.
Anupong is no red-shirt apologist, so there must be a huge reason behind his stance and this piece provides a very plausible theory on what that reason is.
Notwithstanding the point that the author might have done some speculation and/or might have been given distorted information by some people whom he talked with, overall the article sits very well with what is actually happening (or not happening for that matter).
Suthep threatens arrests
I am surprised to see the support that the ‘reds’ receive here. To me there is a clear parallel between the way that the mass of reds are being manipulated and the tactics used by Hitler’s national socialist movement in pre war Germany so to me this looks like a ‘fascist’ movement rather than a spontaneous uprising of a downtrodden underclass.
The key to the growth of the national socialist movement was to avoid any ‘argumentation’ and instead to concentrate on emotional manipulation. This approach was clearly outlined in Mein Kampf and was the mass psychology used in Germany. To me, this is a very frightening movement. When I listen to the red leaders, I don’t hear policy, I don’t learn how the underclass will benefit economically and through a system of social justice. Indeed Thailand, with its present constitution and character can not and will not be democratic, even if a snap election were called. Money for votes, privileges for those with good connections and police watching who you vote for – I wouldn’t call that democratic. Bear in mind too that only those with university degrees can stand for election and it adds up to a society that will continue in the same way because, what should be a popular uprising for a fair and democratic society, is really an emotionally charged and manipulated mass who are simply being used to serve the interests of one part of the ruling classes. The PM is doing the best he can and is certainly the first enlightened PM the country has had. he knows what he is up against – that he has lasted so long in this sea of sharks speaks volumes for an intelligent and courageous individual.
Suthep threatens arrests
I don’t what you people are talking about. The Chart is fairly accurate, the only notable exceptions being the ommission of the Illuminati and the Rand Corporation.
Suthep threatens arrests
“It is more likely that the government’s aim in making public this alleged plot to overthrow the monarchy is to create the conditions for the government to justify the use of extreme force in cracking down on the Red Shirts.”
Maybe but I don’t think so. I suspect the Abhisit govermentnet has long realised it is losing the war and has become increasingly shrill and ridiculous trying to up the ante until they get some popular support.
This card is the trump card though, if this doesn’t work there is nothing at all left.
Suthep threatens arrests
C5. Agree on the generational thing. There are lots of powerful positons opening up making the power struggle quite complicated it would seem. There is also a once in a lifetime opportunity to access a very powerful business group too.
With Suthep and Abhisit dont you just get the feeling that there a more extreme group just busting to get rid of them and really play hardball.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
I just love gossip but. There may even be something to it. You never know.
I do hope those praising this article though arent the same people who criticse the Nation for printing unsubstaniated rumours;)
Didnt the unit insignia in one of the photos suggest a certain unit was operating behind red lines? I thought that had led to certain other theories on who was behind the shooting. Still maybe I digress
Suthep threatens arrests
Agree with Chris and Luecha. Thailand is in a complete vacuum when it comes to strong and honest leadership. Politics drifts from one military government to the next, with intervening periods of different colours – hardly a recipe for a progressive nation and strong economy.
Thai culture seems obsessed with the past, unable to get to grips with the systems (legal, technical, bureaucratic) and practices (transparency, accountability, responsibility) necessary for a functioning democracy.
For now, this country appears to have more and more in common with Burma (fascist state, propaganda, censorship, draconian laws) and it’s leadership seem happy to do so.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
The crack down will come, I’m sure of that, they are just waiting for the the moment when the protester got exhausted.
Btw, I saw this interview video in facebook about the mother who happened to join the red and her son who happen to be on the 2nd division during to crack down on the 10th. I dont know whether to call this fate or coincident, the son was shooting at the protester (Didn’t say whether its a rubber or live round) for a while until he saw a pair of eyes on the other side of his line. It was his mother standing right in front of the soldier line trying to push the front line soldiers back. The son burst into tear and run to his mother, about half way before he could get to her, he got shot in the leg.
Watching the interview made me realize that many of the low ranking private are no one but son of those poor farmers, just think of that I’m pretty sure that even among the private the moral isnt too high either.
Suthep threatens arrests
Why doesn’t Abhisit dissolve parliament?
According to the Red Shirts’ leadership it is because, according to Pi Malakul, “the highest senior person” (р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Гр╕лр╕Нр╣Ир╕кр╕╣р╕Зр╕кр╕╕р╕Ф) has strictly forbidden it.
See: http://www.pochnews.com/news/political/8188.htm
Obviously this is a reference to the King, since there is no-one “higher” than him, and Pi Malakul is known to be a close friend (р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕кр╕лр╕▓р╕в) of the King.
Whether it is true or not can be debated. But the real significance is that the Red Shirts leadership are now telling their supporters in very clear language that it is the King who is behind Abhisit and the government they are fighting against.
The speech that wasn’t televised
An impressive remake of the speech on Youtube with moving background music – Aesthetis- OST Team Medical Dragon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKeA9if3vL4
The speech that wasn’t televised
Tench. Their fight against inequality. e.g. Anytime they try to express themselves they are denied. It starts at school they are denied to ask questions. The media deny to allow them to express themselves i.e. media do not show anything that is negative to the elite.
The speech that wasn’t televised
The speech that WAS heard:
I have just watched the P.M’s light toasting on BBC’s “Hard-Talk” I will be writing to suggest they rename it “Soft-Ball”
It was obvious that certain key topics were agreed to be off-limits before the interview began. The one about the unmentionables and any discussion of divisions within the military.
He muddled unintelligibly through the question of not having a political mandate from the people and the realignment of political power groups that undermined the electoral system that bought him (and Thaksin) to power.
He tried to put forward the notion of the red-shirt protest as violent and aggressive and resorted to the terrorist epithet for the convenience of bewildered viewers with a short attention span.
When asked if he would impose Martial Law he explained that that was entirely up to the military and nothing to do with him, a mere Prime Minister.
So at least that’s clear!
The speech that wasn’t televised
“We’re denied the chance to openly declare our fight”
Interesting. What is it they haven’t declared openly? Not the dissolution of parliament, that’s out in the open; not replacing the military-drafted constitution, that’s been mentioned.
Which leaves …