Finally, competent informed experts in economics and political economy like Doner and Warr who have devoted their lives to studying the economic issues that lie at the heart of Thailand’s crisis.
[…] the original: On mobility and inequality in Thailand and elsewhere Tags: china, crunch-the-numbers, inspire-somebody, numbers, the-first, these-questions […]
Here is a very good article on the current Thai Human Rights Commission. Mike’s comment above that the current head is slightly yellow warrants mockery. The fact is that the entire commission was selected by the junta following the coup and that it is in fact a kangaroo commission – all yellow and all junta stooges.
Thailand’s new rights commission a joke?
Mon, 04/05/2009 – 10:13
Awzar Thi
Hong Kong, China – This week the Asian Human Rights Commission issued three open letters on the selection of candidates for the new National Human Rights Commission of Thailand. The regional body has warned that if the Senate goes ahead and accepts the seven current nominees then the commission may cease to meet international standards, causing it to lose its status before the United Nations.
HR stands for “Here to protect the Regime” They are group of people who have no job. They will go to everywhere to swindle anything they can. In Thailand, this group are full of aristocrats and elites who refuse to change. Thailand will be much better without human rights.
I think that the criticism of institutionalization of Human Rights, of any human undertaking really, is right on the mark :
The HR organizations in countries and internationally become a complex bureaucracy including having their own corporate interests to protect first and foremost. Their operations become bureaucratized. The higher international profiles they enjoy, their operations and priority change accordingly.
The international HR mandarins are products of the papers that have been pushed from tray to tray, table to table, across the globe. There is no transparency, nor accountability of the HR bureaucracy, even when they lend their hands to anti-HR and anti-democracy
Meanwhile, real human without human rights protection have gone into exile or got 6, 10 and18 years in prison.
Secondly, the their own self-image explains the Human Rights institutions’ softness on lèse–majesté persecutions :
For Thai HR mandarins, they may consider themselves and their works as the professions with higher moral authority than other mundane ones; critics should therefore treat them with utmost regard (higher than people in mundane professions), and a harsh criticism on them is inappropriate. This unconscious claim to higher moral authority is ingrained in Thai hierarchical culture.
In fact, they’d like a little protection from the lèse of their very own majesté themselves.
They have blood on their hands now. I hope not more to come.
If all human suffering ends tomorrow, these people would be out of a job. My rather cynical view is that these do-gooders have no interest in lessening suffering, because suffering is the goose that keeps on laying the golden egg.
Not unlike the aid-industrial complex that is being run in Africa to the benefit of NGO’s, western nations (think artificially created demand for their goods – USAID comes to mind) , and in the end, the despots that are in charge in these countries.
As a member of AI-USA I have previously written to member services complaining about the lack of response by Amnesty International to the LM cases here. I am thinking of writing to them again, attach this article, and suggest that they fire Benjamin Zawacki. His most recent press releases on the Red Shirt protests have been, in my opinion, just a rehash of the government propaganda.
This is all rather confusing. Firstly, the author assumes that HR organizations all work in cohesion, when they are just as political and divided as any other sector.
Second, the criticism that Lese majesty is forgotten to these groups. While their advocacy on this may not be great, HRW has been clear in its criticism of lese majesty. AI, because it is a different structure and operating principles, is perhaps less critical but still is not a supporter. Forum Asia, Article 19, reporter without borders all have openly critized the law. The major problem is that Lese majesty laws are in that fuzzy area where it is difficult to prove the law is a violation.
Third, the politicization of HR is perhaps true, but it cuts both ways: with HR commissioners, the current head is perhaps a little yellow though one of the red leaders is an ex HR commissioner. Both reds and yellows have their human rights lobby.
Fourth, the HR movement being dominated by a few czars, who are these people? That only one name was cited, and one position (the ex AI head who made a pro yellow statement and was forced to step down), makes this criticism seem more like a conspiracy theory. To say the entire movement has double standards is simplistic, and bitter
On a similar note, it always amuses me to see the plethora of NGOs and associated gap year volunteer CV padders hanging about in Chiangmai and surrounding environs – which must be the highest (NGO’d / suffering) quotient – my dodgy just invented metric – place on the planet.
Vientiane has its charms, and cafes with good coffee – unsurprisingly swarming with NGO types.
There was a marked tendency to want to stick around in Phuket to ‘help’ long after the Tsunami was history.
But I have to wonder, what is the (NGO’d / suffering) quotient for (say) Roi Et? Let’s not be obtuse and pretend that this is a specious question. It’s a simple fact that there are fewer NGOs in places like Roi Et and your other Isaan Nakhon Nowheres precisely because they *are* Nakhon Nowheres with very little charm / cachet cf. the likes of Chiangmai.
So is it any surprise at all that supposed human rights NGOs in Thailand, including those more international organisations are pussy cats? Of course they are. Bangkok, Chiangmai, and a few other places are hardly hardship postings. Who would want to risk having to move on?
Besides, this is Thailand. Annoy the wrong people and you get to meet the Man from Petchaburi. Posturing and Preening is one thing. Really putting one’s life and limbs on the line is another thing entirely.
I recall going to a Tokyo AI fundraiser in a pub in Ebisu and being similarly amused to find out that AI Japan was studiously uninterested in Japan’s application of the death penalty.
AI (for example) must do *some* good. On the balance the world probably is a better place for its existence. But let’s be adults and realise that it, and all other NGOs and bureaucracies (not to mention university faculties – hi guys :)) are largely populated by time servers rather than passionate believers. We’re all human. Very few saints to be found.
So you are correct to point out the uselessness and hypocrisy of HR NGOs in Thailand. But this is a Dog Bites Man story. News at 10.
I love Aungsan Su Yi comments about Thailand. If this army- backed government survive, things will get worse. Fruit of democracy is now as fresh as ever. Apisit government is now falling apart. Most civil servants have already backed off, they won’t support this government any longer. Most Thai know the the truth about this chaos. They now understand the core of the problem.
[…] here: On mobility and inequality in Thailand and elsewhere Tags: china, crunch-the-numbers, inspire-somebody, numbers, the-first, these-questions […]
I don’t know what society Frank Anderson comes from or what societies he has lived in or the society he is currently living in but I ask him to show anyone a society where some of its people are not motivated by greed, selfishness, intolerance, double standards etc! Sure such ideas exist in Thai society and not just among the “elite” but to imply they are all pervasive is quite ridiculous. This is like saying all or most Australians displayed such ideas at different historical junctures, whether it is in relation to its own indigenous peoples, non-Anglo immigrants, people of “leftist” persuasion, gay people and the list goes on-aand-on.
Perhaps Frank Anderson has come across some “assholes” in Thailand as indeed I have in a country like Austrlaia and to demonstrate my candour “even” some people think I am an “asshole”. So I would suggest from time-to-time all of us can be motivated by greed, selfishness, intolerance, double standards etc except perhaps the exemplary Frank Anderson. Indeed I would think Thai society like any society where everyone is righteous must be a pretty dull and uninteresting society to live in.
There are surely more important issues to debate via-a-vis contemporary Thai society than making glib generalizations that offer little by way of explanatory value.
Have great faith in your country, omg backward?? ur youth culture equals Britain in the 60/70/80s. Democracy is alive and vibrant in Thailand and cannot be reversed. My wife and stepchildren are Thai, we live in Australia. They are studying in the western world. Thailand is moving forward into the new world. I used to think the King was the bedrock of Thai society, but now he is old, sick and silent. Darker forces prevail. Thailand, I wish u well
is it even certain that vajiralongkorn will ever become king?
my bet is on a regency council headed by sirikit and sirindhorn, in trust for the baby prince dipangkorn
One is reminded of Norman Jacobs’ well-known diagnosis of Thailand as showing “modernization without development.” Fourty years later, Richard Doner has rephrased this situation as “development without upgrading.”
“small and dwindling number of local auto parts suppliers.”
Really? What country is he talking about? Surely not Thailand.
All of his concerns has been staple food for Nation’s business section for ages, with one local guru after another talking about vocational education, need to escape “labor intensive” trap and so on.
Actually it was Thaksin himself who popularized the idea of adding value to Thai products to differentiate from new comers like China and Vietnam, Thaksin brought us “kitchen of the world”, “fashion capital” and all kinds of “make Thailand a hub” announcements. Most of those were laughable but the direction was set nevertheless.
Eastern Seaboard was the answer to Bangkok centered development. Next in line is Southern Seaboard but political instability prevents the government(s) from making any substantial moves. Ditto for Bangkok infrastructure and dual track railways that should increase the whole country’s competitiveness (another fashionable term these days).
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Economic strategy and the roots of Thai political turmoil
Finally, competent informed experts in economics and political economy like Doner and Warr who have devoted their lives to studying the economic issues that lie at the heart of Thailand’s crisis.
Hope there is more of this at New Mandala.
Government crackdown on “incisive messages”
As much as I dislike the current attitude of the Foreign Affairs Ministry, I suspect this case is a typo, not an admission of truth suppression.
Surely they meant to say they would prevent “incitive” messages?
On mobility and inequality in Thailand and elsewhere
[…] the original: On mobility and inequality in Thailand and elsewhere Tags: china, crunch-the-numbers, inspire-somebody, numbers, the-first, these-questions […]
The betrayal of human rights mandarins
Here is a very good article on the current Thai Human Rights Commission. Mike’s comment above that the current head is slightly yellow warrants mockery. The fact is that the entire commission was selected by the junta following the coup and that it is in fact a kangaroo commission – all yellow and all junta stooges.
Thailand’s new rights commission a joke?
Mon, 04/05/2009 – 10:13
Awzar Thi
Hong Kong, China – This week the Asian Human Rights Commission issued three open letters on the selection of candidates for the new National Human Rights Commission of Thailand. The regional body has warned that if the Senate goes ahead and accepts the seven current nominees then the commission may cease to meet international standards, causing it to lose its status before the United Nations.
http://www.prachatai.org/english/node/1192
The betrayal of human rights mandarins
HR stands for “Here to protect the Regime” They are group of people who have no job. They will go to everywhere to swindle anything they can. In Thailand, this group are full of aristocrats and elites who refuse to change. Thailand will be much better without human rights.
The betrayal of human rights mandarins
I think that the criticism of institutionalization of Human Rights, of any human undertaking really, is right on the mark :
Secondly, the their own self-image explains the Human Rights institutions’ softness on lèse–majesté persecutions :
In fact, they’d like a little protection from the lèse of their very own majesté themselves.
They have blood on their hands now. I hope not more to come.
The betrayal of human rights mandarins
If all human suffering ends tomorrow, these people would be out of a job. My rather cynical view is that these do-gooders have no interest in lessening suffering, because suffering is the goose that keeps on laying the golden egg.
Not unlike the aid-industrial complex that is being run in Africa to the benefit of NGO’s, western nations (think artificially created demand for their goods – USAID comes to mind) , and in the end, the despots that are in charge in these countries.
Burma election: “a poor set of options”
Well said Ashely.
The betrayal of human rights mandarins
As a member of AI-USA I have previously written to member services complaining about the lack of response by Amnesty International to the LM cases here. I am thinking of writing to them again, attach this article, and suggest that they fire Benjamin Zawacki. His most recent press releases on the Red Shirt protests have been, in my opinion, just a rehash of the government propaganda.
The betrayal of human rights mandarins
This is all rather confusing. Firstly, the author assumes that HR organizations all work in cohesion, when they are just as political and divided as any other sector.
Second, the criticism that Lese majesty is forgotten to these groups. While their advocacy on this may not be great, HRW has been clear in its criticism of lese majesty. AI, because it is a different structure and operating principles, is perhaps less critical but still is not a supporter. Forum Asia, Article 19, reporter without borders all have openly critized the law. The major problem is that Lese majesty laws are in that fuzzy area where it is difficult to prove the law is a violation.
Third, the politicization of HR is perhaps true, but it cuts both ways: with HR commissioners, the current head is perhaps a little yellow though one of the red leaders is an ex HR commissioner. Both reds and yellows have their human rights lobby.
Fourth, the HR movement being dominated by a few czars, who are these people? That only one name was cited, and one position (the ex AI head who made a pro yellow statement and was forced to step down), makes this criticism seem more like a conspiracy theory. To say the entire movement has double standards is simplistic, and bitter
The betrayal of human rights mandarins
No surprises here.
On a similar note, it always amuses me to see the plethora of NGOs and associated gap year volunteer CV padders hanging about in Chiangmai and surrounding environs – which must be the highest (NGO’d / suffering) quotient – my dodgy just invented metric – place on the planet.
Vientiane has its charms, and cafes with good coffee – unsurprisingly swarming with NGO types.
There was a marked tendency to want to stick around in Phuket to ‘help’ long after the Tsunami was history.
But I have to wonder, what is the (NGO’d / suffering) quotient for (say) Roi Et? Let’s not be obtuse and pretend that this is a specious question. It’s a simple fact that there are fewer NGOs in places like Roi Et and your other Isaan Nakhon Nowheres precisely because they *are* Nakhon Nowheres with very little charm / cachet cf. the likes of Chiangmai.
So is it any surprise at all that supposed human rights NGOs in Thailand, including those more international organisations are pussy cats? Of course they are. Bangkok, Chiangmai, and a few other places are hardly hardship postings. Who would want to risk having to move on?
Besides, this is Thailand. Annoy the wrong people and you get to meet the Man from Petchaburi. Posturing and Preening is one thing. Really putting one’s life and limbs on the line is another thing entirely.
I recall going to a Tokyo AI fundraiser in a pub in Ebisu and being similarly amused to find out that AI Japan was studiously uninterested in Japan’s application of the death penalty.
AI (for example) must do *some* good. On the balance the world probably is a better place for its existence. But let’s be adults and realise that it, and all other NGOs and bureaucracies (not to mention university faculties – hi guys :)) are largely populated by time servers rather than passionate believers. We’re all human. Very few saints to be found.
So you are correct to point out the uselessness and hypocrisy of HR NGOs in Thailand. But this is a Dog Bites Man story. News at 10.
Burma election: “a poor set of options”
I love Aungsan Su Yi comments about Thailand. If this army- backed government survive, things will get worse. Fruit of democracy is now as fresh as ever. Apisit government is now falling apart. Most civil servants have already backed off, they won’t support this government any longer. Most Thai know the the truth about this chaos. They now understand the core of the problem.
How are the Nam Theun 2 resettlees going?
[…] few weeks ago I featured the World Bank’s blog about the Nam Theun resettlement. A reader has sent me this email […]
On mobility and inequality in Thailand and elsewhere
[…] here: On mobility and inequality in Thailand and elsewhere Tags: china, crunch-the-numbers, inspire-somebody, numbers, the-first, these-questions […]
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
Shane –
If you don’t like what I said, say it outright. This sarcasm stuff does not sit well even with my illustrious self.
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
I don’t know what society Frank Anderson comes from or what societies he has lived in or the society he is currently living in but I ask him to show anyone a society where some of its people are not motivated by greed, selfishness, intolerance, double standards etc! Sure such ideas exist in Thai society and not just among the “elite” but to imply they are all pervasive is quite ridiculous. This is like saying all or most Australians displayed such ideas at different historical junctures, whether it is in relation to its own indigenous peoples, non-Anglo immigrants, people of “leftist” persuasion, gay people and the list goes on-aand-on.
Perhaps Frank Anderson has come across some “assholes” in Thailand as indeed I have in a country like Austrlaia and to demonstrate my candour “even” some people think I am an “asshole”. So I would suggest from time-to-time all of us can be motivated by greed, selfishness, intolerance, double standards etc except perhaps the exemplary Frank Anderson. Indeed I would think Thai society like any society where everyone is righteous must be a pretty dull and uninteresting society to live in.
There are surely more important issues to debate via-a-vis contemporary Thai society than making glib generalizations that offer little by way of explanatory value.
Thai style democracy?
Have great faith in your country, omg backward?? ur youth culture equals Britain in the 60/70/80s. Democracy is alive and vibrant in Thailand and cannot be reversed. My wife and stepchildren are Thai, we live in Australia. They are studying in the western world. Thailand is moving forward into the new world. I used to think the King was the bedrock of Thai society, but now he is old, sick and silent. Darker forces prevail. Thailand, I wish u well
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
is it even certain that vajiralongkorn will ever become king?
my bet is on a regency council headed by sirikit and sirindhorn, in trust for the baby prince dipangkorn
Economic strategy and the roots of Thai political turmoil
One is reminded of Norman Jacobs’ well-known diagnosis of Thailand as showing “modernization without development.” Fourty years later, Richard Doner has rephrased this situation as “development without upgrading.”
Economic strategy and the roots of Thai political turmoil
“small and dwindling number of local auto parts suppliers.”
Really? What country is he talking about? Surely not Thailand.
All of his concerns has been staple food for Nation’s business section for ages, with one local guru after another talking about vocational education, need to escape “labor intensive” trap and so on.
Actually it was Thaksin himself who popularized the idea of adding value to Thai products to differentiate from new comers like China and Vietnam, Thaksin brought us “kitchen of the world”, “fashion capital” and all kinds of “make Thailand a hub” announcements. Most of those were laughable but the direction was set nevertheless.
Eastern Seaboard was the answer to Bangkok centered development. Next in line is Southern Seaboard but political instability prevents the government(s) from making any substantial moves. Ditto for Bangkok infrastructure and dual track railways that should increase the whole country’s competitiveness (another fashionable term these days).