To be honest, I really think you’re well out of there. I’ve looked through Thanong’s blog from time to time and even attempted to post a couple of times (neither was published). But Thanong seems fixated not just by his own fantastical delusions of what he “knows” but also by his need for embarrassingly small-minded and infantile yah-boo sessions with correspondents – to the exclusion of actually conducting a discussion. On the rare occasions when a sensible post is accepted, he conspicuously ignores or at best sidesteps any coherent points raised.
As with comparable individuals who go on splattering their tunnel-vision distortions here and anywhere else they can insert themselves, he’s clearly incapable of separating fact from wishful speculation and, in any case, dismisses out of hand anything that doesn’t dovetail with his dogma. See them for what they are – and don’t feed them.
I don’t have any liking for guns or the men who use them but in this instance the interpretation of what happened on Saturday evening turns on who was armed and what kind of arms they were carrying. The Government’s spokesman are saying that there were weapons being used that were not part of the official armory. To back this up there have been many references to the model of grenade that may or may not have been used. I must say that I am quite impressed that they were able to identify the ordinance in question so quickly. Somebody must have collected shards from the scene?
But the pictures and video on the net of what appears to be a Redshirt guard brandishing an AK 47 are also part of the same spin and I have to point out something. While the units involved from the Thai Royal Army do not use the AK it is a common item amongst the Rangers. According to Michael Connors in Sovereign Myth
“Some of the red guards are thaharn praan or rangers. I meet a group that stands guard outside the police hospital. They are from Pakthonchai, Ratchasima. One tells me that while the government has paid for some rangers to come to Bangkok to guard various sites he and his men are not for hire and have come voluntarily to protect the red-shirts. Asked how this would all end he says, “There must be blood, history is like that.”
It seems to me unlikely that the AK was captured from either the police or the army however from this source’s testimony it would appear that both sides could have fielded this weapon…
W2A! @#101
You seem to be talking about the Crown Prince and Princess here.
“Probably a sensible move in light of the grudges a certain other person has against her. Preparing her bolthole, so to speak.”
What evidence do you have for any “grudges”? Anything more than malicious rumour ?
“What is HE doing? Nothing of course! He should definitely abdicate before he gets a job he won’t enjoy.” This appears to be a reference to the Crown Prince.
1) How can you know he is doing “nothing” ?
He may well have been trying to act as ago-between, moderator of the conflict between Thaksin and anti-Thaksin forces.
2)” He should definitely abdicate before he gets a job he won’t enjoy.”
Yes – being King of Thailand is an extremely difficult job – but how can you know how the Crown Prince will perform as King, until he does it ?
After all, nobody would have guessed Bumiphol would turn out to be the great King he undoubtedly is, at the time he became king.
Everyone doesn’t know. I follow the news and I try to read between the lines but the obfuscation, the censorship, the doubletalk, the coded language is so thick that I have only glimmers of understanding and I’m doubtful about them.
I think I know what you’re saying . At least , I can guess what you’re saying. You may be right. You may be wrong. The problem is the way that political discourse in this country is forced into secretive statements and whispers that speak only to those in the know. Or who think they are in the know. Who is the very very high person?
Kaweeka – good post. The Nation used to be a good newspaper –
but found itself facing bankruptcy, as a result of the global economic crisis and world-wide crisis for print media facing competition from the internet, sharply dropping advertising revenue, etc. It’s interesting that Nation seems to have recovered somewhat financially (i.e. it is still going, when before it faced imminent collapse!).
Now I wonder where the golden coin could be coming from to keep it going. Gold manna from the Gods in heaven.
Nation still does have some journalists willing to post the news, rather than propaganda. And even worse than Thanong on the propaganda front is Onkapa : he’s been doing it for longer.
Of course Prachatai English has a lot more than the articles from the Nation, and occasionally comments other than about selling Viagra.
I will say it again, nothing that appears in English there ever warranted the closure. Their problems with the government come from their Thai section, not English.
Again, those who looked and Prachatai and didn’t find anything offensive – you should have looked at their Thai section, not English, to form an opinion.
BKK Lawyer, please address me as StanG. It might fall on the death ears, though – how much integrity one could possibly expect from a lawyer(!) in Bangkok, of all places?
[…] reader sent this email to New Mandala. This report describes the impact of the clash between soldiers and protesters. Walking toward the protest, I noticed that there was a feeling of […]
Re video of a protester shot in the head – a sniper fire from a higher ground is the easiest explanation, given how far he was from the frontline and how many people were between him and the soldiers.
I’m not a forensic expert, of course, but if there was indeed a “third hand” picking up targets to provoke indiscriminate shooting and blame it on the government, he was a likely victim.
The government can put up a very convincing presentation here and it would go a long way to easing tensions, considering how this man’s body was brought onto the red stage to incite hatred towards the army, among other things.
I think both sides will eagerly accept the third hand scapegoat that absolves them from any responsibility and allows to move forward politically.
“Maj-Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol said Sunday that the so-called ‘Ronin’ warriors or underground warriors helped red-shirt protesters battle troops on Saturday.
He admitted that the “unknown force” or “Ronin warriors” fired M79 grenades at troops and one M79 grenades landed at the tent of the commander of the operation, causing the troops to have no commander.
“This caused the troops to have no commander and caused them to lose the battle,” Khattiya said.
“The Army commander [Prayuth] thought the red shirts were easy to be crushed but there are not,” Khattiya said.
The Nation”
so, as I said earlier, these are not some golf-playing fattening on public money p*ssies, but combat trained & tried fellas.
more details (in Thai) here with photos & videos here – although many argue many things there as speculations. like that those guards clad in black on photos were the actual shooters. Al Jazeera video (at 2:25) briefly shows one guy walking with rifle (looks like a sniper rifle), then another one holding AK47. these fellas look differently than those “men in black” (notice entirely black, although man on video has brown color pants)
these materials were up on internet last night (18.55 ), and Nation’s boss Yoon apparently was already aware of that – and I guess those this article was published on Nation today. I doubt it very much that “Ronin” themselves have made a statement or a press-release ! 🙂
although words used in article are : “said” and “admitted” – as if he called Yoon himself and claimed responsibility, ala some Bin Laden.
Nation doesn’t provide more details, like how they got this info (taken an interview from him? he called them himself?).
BUT ….
if really he “admitted“, as if gave press conf. or something – then perhaps this is quite a significant and calculated step.
There are hundreds of photos of 1000s of soldiers carrying a huge amount of M16s and more.
You state one Red was carrying an AK47 and yet you argue the Army was outgunned.
Make your mind up.
I’m also in agreement with Media War – without you fully revealing your personal details I’m convinced you are likely a Thai govt plant or someone with business interests in Thailand.
Great piece of writing, Justin! I wish I could have been with you.
@Kaweeka: my pseudonym, Khamala, was also banned from the Nation forum and all that while the fascists in there are calling for blood…
Walking past Thammasat U this afternoon around 5pm there was a brief touch of a siren to clear some jumped up phrai driving a car (no less) out of the way and what do I see but the familiar silver be-decaled royal bodyguards car + one of their yellow/cream S-classes behind going past in the direction of the Grand Palace. Could see a guy in front passenger seat holding a large bouquet. Could not see who was in the back.
Judging by lack of outriders, no following heavies in the red cars, no ambulance or port-a-potty, I’d say this was actually not a real royal, but a royal representative going somewhere – perhaps to deliver a wreath to a wat? Who knows.
Anyway, did not appear to elicit any kind of response from the various red shirts in the vicinity.
Yellow shirts, (I hate them as well) never carried guns and grenades. During their long extended protests, there were never bombs around the city. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.
LOL. You got to be kidding right?┬и
I got movies where the yellow thugs does everything you just said they didnt do. And i also saw it with my own 2 eyes.
….. And get some real policies. Even if you have to actually pay Jai or Thongchai to write them. No, not Jakkrapob. He’s too full of the pretentious shite he puffed himself out with as the ex-PM’s PR man. In other words, nothing more than hollow spin and weasel words.
I can’t remember hearing anything solid other than the useless stuff like the 30 baht health scheme that was bankrupt before it even started. Or the OTOP scheme where every one ends up making the same horrible wines for a hi-so market that doesn’t even exist. Or the ELITE Card, ditto. Life is, unfortunately, not about Thaksin fixing Bangkok’s traffic problems in 6 weeks, or Chavalit’s 1996 schemes for High Speed Trains that never arrived.
All we ever get from the redshirts are worn-out slapstick show versions of things the yellow shirts already did to death.
To many of you it is well known that the mainstream media in Thailand is rather tilted to the right, often sympathising if not downright owned by the so called yellows.
Anyway, the online edition of this paper (www.nationmultimedia.com) has a weblog section in which its Managing Editor, Thanong Khanthong is its principal contributor.
Apparently he is also in charge of censorship, in the most biased way possible, and far from any journalistic principles he is uphold to keep. While allowing certain bloggers to call for the mass murder of all the demonstrators with impunity – which in itself is against the law in Thailand – he has now started to ban the voices of opposition and dissent within this blog environment.
My pseudonym, Kaweeka, is now effectively banned, unable to login into the site. Before he would just delete many of my comments, especially when they were critical of the newspaper’s bias and distortions of the news.
It is clear to me that The Nation epitomises the double standards that the reds complain about, as it lack journalistic integrity. I am sure that there are many nationalists and elites that will defend them, but any centrist, middle of the road and fair minded person has and continues to criticise this paper for its slanderous bias towards anything that is midly critical of the yellow agenda.
By censoring bloggers that disagree with their ideology puts them in my Red Alert list and I hope it joins yours.
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Inappropriate website
I’ve just make a vigorous complaint about that awful man, “StopLeseMajeste”. Last week he said Sirikit should go on a diet because she’s too fat.
Honestly, there’s no respect.
The scene at Phan Fa
Kaweeka (#28)…..
To be honest, I really think you’re well out of there. I’ve looked through Thanong’s blog from time to time and even attempted to post a couple of times (neither was published). But Thanong seems fixated not just by his own fantastical delusions of what he “knows” but also by his need for embarrassingly small-minded and infantile yah-boo sessions with correspondents – to the exclusion of actually conducting a discussion. On the rare occasions when a sensible post is accepted, he conspicuously ignores or at best sidesteps any coherent points raised.
As with comparable individuals who go on splattering their tunnel-vision distortions here and anywhere else they can insert themselves, he’s clearly incapable of separating fact from wishful speculation and, in any case, dismisses out of hand anything that doesn’t dovetail with his dogma. See them for what they are – and don’t feed them.
War at Khao San
NYtimes photo of 1 armed man
http://twitpic.com/1ewkgv
War at Khao San
I don’t have any liking for guns or the men who use them but in this instance the interpretation of what happened on Saturday evening turns on who was armed and what kind of arms they were carrying. The Government’s spokesman are saying that there were weapons being used that were not part of the official armory. To back this up there have been many references to the model of grenade that may or may not have been used. I must say that I am quite impressed that they were able to identify the ordinance in question so quickly. Somebody must have collected shards from the scene?
But the pictures and video on the net of what appears to be a Redshirt guard brandishing an AK 47 are also part of the same spin and I have to point out something. While the units involved from the Thai Royal Army do not use the AK it is a common item amongst the Rangers. According to Michael Connors in Sovereign Myth
“Some of the red guards are thaharn praan or rangers. I meet a group that stands guard outside the police hospital. They are from Pakthonchai, Ratchasima. One tells me that while the government has paid for some rangers to come to Bangkok to guard various sites he and his men are not for hire and have come voluntarily to protect the red-shirts. Asked how this would all end he says, “There must be blood, history is like that.”
It seems to me unlikely that the AK was captured from either the police or the army however from this source’s testimony it would appear that both sides could have fielded this weapon…
War at Khao San
“Graphic images and video links to last nights military action (Hiro, “flagman”. etc)
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
W2A! @#101
You seem to be talking about the Crown Prince and Princess here.
“Probably a sensible move in light of the grudges a certain other person has against her. Preparing her bolthole, so to speak.”
What evidence do you have for any “grudges”? Anything more than malicious rumour ?
“What is HE doing? Nothing of course! He should definitely abdicate before he gets a job he won’t enjoy.” This appears to be a reference to the Crown Prince.
1) How can you know he is doing “nothing” ?
He may well have been trying to act as ago-between, moderator of the conflict between Thaksin and anti-Thaksin forces.
2)” He should definitely abdicate before he gets a job he won’t enjoy.”
Yes – being King of Thailand is an extremely difficult job – but how can you know how the Crown Prince will perform as King, until he does it ?
After all, nobody would have guessed Bumiphol would turn out to be the great King he undoubtedly is, at the time he became king.
The scene at Phan Fa
Peter,
Everyone doesn’t know. I follow the news and I try to read between the lines but the obfuscation, the censorship, the doubletalk, the coded language is so thick that I have only glimmers of understanding and I’m doubtful about them.
I think I know what you’re saying . At least , I can guess what you’re saying. You may be right. You may be wrong. The problem is the way that political discourse in this country is forced into secretive statements and whispers that speak only to those in the know. Or who think they are in the know. Who is the very very high person?
I don’t know.
The scene at Phan Fa
Kaweeka – good post. The Nation used to be a good newspaper –
but found itself facing bankruptcy, as a result of the global economic crisis and world-wide crisis for print media facing competition from the internet, sharply dropping advertising revenue, etc. It’s interesting that Nation seems to have recovered somewhat financially (i.e. it is still going, when before it faced imminent collapse!).
Now I wonder where the golden coin could be coming from to keep it going. Gold manna from the Gods in heaven.
Nation still does have some journalists willing to post the news, rather than propaganda. And even worse than Thanong on the propaganda front is Onkapa : he’s been doing it for longer.
State of Emergency in Bangkok
Of course Prachatai English has a lot more than the articles from the Nation, and occasionally comments other than about selling Viagra.
I will say it again, nothing that appears in English there ever warranted the closure. Their problems with the government come from their Thai section, not English.
Again, those who looked and Prachatai and didn’t find anything offensive – you should have looked at their Thai section, not English, to form an opinion.
BKK Lawyer, please address me as StanG. It might fall on the death ears, though – how much integrity one could possibly expect from a lawyer(!) in Bangkok, of all places?
The scene at Phan Fa
[…] reader sent this email to New Mandala. This report describes the impact of the clash between soldiers and protesters. Walking toward the protest, I noticed that there was a feeling of […]
War at Khao San
Re video of a protester shot in the head – a sniper fire from a higher ground is the easiest explanation, given how far he was from the frontline and how many people were between him and the soldiers.
I’m not a forensic expert, of course, but if there was indeed a “third hand” picking up targets to provoke indiscriminate shooting and blame it on the government, he was a likely victim.
The government can put up a very convincing presentation here and it would go a long way to easing tensions, considering how this man’s body was brought onto the red stage to incite hatred towards the army, among other things.
I think both sides will eagerly accept the third hand scapegoat that absolves them from any responsibility and allows to move forward politically.
War at Khao San
seems it is confirmed. The man had enough balls (unlike some others, as Prayuth) to admit it himself :
so, as I said earlier, these are not some golf-playing fattening on public money p*ssies, but combat trained & tried fellas.
somebody has managed to record this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7oKenp6ZLw
(although from a distance, zoomed)
more details (in Thai) here with photos & videos here – although many argue many things there as speculations. like that those guards clad in black on photos were the actual shooters. Al Jazeera video (at 2:25) briefly shows one guy walking with rifle (looks like a sniper rifle), then another one holding AK47. these fellas look differently than those “men in black” (notice entirely black, although man on video has brown color pants)
these materials were up on internet last night (18.55 ), and Nation’s boss Yoon apparently was already aware of that – and I guess those this article was published on Nation today. I doubt it very much that “Ronin” themselves have made a statement or a press-release ! 🙂
although words used in article are : “said” and “admitted” – as if he called Yoon himself and claimed responsibility, ala some Bin Laden.
Nation doesn’t provide more details, like how they got this info (taken an interview from him? he called them himself?).
BUT ….
if really he “admitted“, as if gave press conf. or something – then perhaps this is quite a significant and calculated step.
War at Khao San
StanG
There are hundreds of photos of 1000s of soldiers carrying a huge amount of M16s and more.
You state one Red was carrying an AK47 and yet you argue the Army was outgunned.
Make your mind up.
I’m also in agreement with Media War – without you fully revealing your personal details I’m convinced you are likely a Thai govt plant or someone with business interests in Thailand.
The scene at Phan Fa
Great piece of writing, Justin! I wish I could have been with you.
@Kaweeka: my pseudonym, Khamala, was also banned from the Nation forum and all that while the fascists in there are calling for blood…
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
Walking past Thammasat U this afternoon around 5pm there was a brief touch of a siren to clear some jumped up phrai driving a car (no less) out of the way and what do I see but the familiar silver be-decaled royal bodyguards car + one of their yellow/cream S-classes behind going past in the direction of the Grand Palace. Could see a guy in front passenger seat holding a large bouquet. Could not see who was in the back.
Judging by lack of outriders, no following heavies in the red cars, no ambulance or port-a-potty, I’d say this was actually not a real royal, but a royal representative going somewhere – perhaps to deliver a wreath to a wat? Who knows.
Anyway, did not appear to elicit any kind of response from the various red shirts in the vicinity.
War at Khao San
Some interesting observations by Michael Connors here: http://sovereignmyth.blogspot.com/
War at Khao San
To Yoda # 29
Yoda // Apr 11, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Jim Taylor,
Do you understand the parliamentary system? Quit being a smartass. I was respectful in my comments toward you.
……………………………………………………………
Please stop destroying the people right to protest for democracy.
Currently, there are minimum of two parties, especially Bhum-jai-thai party, which was not come to the parliament democratically.
Swing the side and group a coalition cabinet, no one and no one in Thailand has vote for this so-called party.
Yes, Abhisit choose them and step on the Thais majority.
What is so difficult with dissolving this parliament and how many more death bodies needs for Abhisit to decide to dissolve the parliament???
Don’t you remember that he and his colleague are so confidence about the next election that his party will get 240 to 280 seats….
War at Khao San
Yellow shirts, (I hate them as well) never carried guns and grenades. During their long extended protests, there were never bombs around the city. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.
LOL. You got to be kidding right?┬и
I got movies where the yellow thugs does everything you just said they didnt do. And i also saw it with my own 2 eyes.
Wake up Yoda.
War at Khao San
….. And get some real policies. Even if you have to actually pay Jai or Thongchai to write them. No, not Jakkrapob. He’s too full of the pretentious shite he puffed himself out with as the ex-PM’s PR man. In other words, nothing more than hollow spin and weasel words.
I can’t remember hearing anything solid other than the useless stuff like the 30 baht health scheme that was bankrupt before it even started. Or the OTOP scheme where every one ends up making the same horrible wines for a hi-so market that doesn’t even exist. Or the ELITE Card, ditto. Life is, unfortunately, not about Thaksin fixing Bangkok’s traffic problems in 6 weeks, or Chavalit’s 1996 schemes for High Speed Trains that never arrived.
All we ever get from the redshirts are worn-out slapstick show versions of things the yellow shirts already did to death.
The scene at Phan Fa
To many of you it is well known that the mainstream media in Thailand is rather tilted to the right, often sympathising if not downright owned by the so called yellows.
The Nation is one of these media outlets, controlled by Nation Multimedia Group PLC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nation_(Thailand)
Anyway, the online edition of this paper (www.nationmultimedia.com) has a weblog section in which its Managing Editor, Thanong Khanthong is its principal contributor.
Apparently he is also in charge of censorship, in the most biased way possible, and far from any journalistic principles he is uphold to keep. While allowing certain bloggers to call for the mass murder of all the demonstrators with impunity – which in itself is against the law in Thailand – he has now started to ban the voices of opposition and dissent within this blog environment.
My pseudonym, Kaweeka, is now effectively banned, unable to login into the site. Before he would just delete many of my comments, especially when they were critical of the newspaper’s bias and distortions of the news.
It is clear to me that The Nation epitomises the double standards that the reds complain about, as it lack journalistic integrity. I am sure that there are many nationalists and elites that will defend them, but any centrist, middle of the road and fair minded person has and continues to criticise this paper for its slanderous bias towards anything that is midly critical of the yellow agenda.
By censoring bloggers that disagree with their ideology puts them in my Red Alert list and I hope it joins yours.