I am not at all impressed nor surprised with UDD being “peaceful protest and actually behave”.
I think it would be more correct to say that : one must be impressed by “Blue Shirts” (aka Sutheps & Newin’s thugs), and PAD (disguised as reds) or any other “third hand” (army’s in disguise perhaps? ) showing quite a lot of restrain and NOT arranging some provocation, as was last year – the REAL reason why “Songkran violence” happened.
I wonder – Abhisit & Suthep have decided to gain some face this time and avoid creating the situation which they could use as a reason for another heavy crackdown ? 😉
very much unlike Suthep Thugsuban ! 😀
what’s on his mind, or perhaps he still keeps up sleeve some surprise?
but nevertheless – it is the actual reason why so far it has been peaceful. red-shirts though even last year would not have started to riot – if gov. provocateurs wouldn’t pre-arrange the whole plan for crackdown and baited reds first in Pattaya, then repeatedly in Bangkok.
There’s no sin in inconsistency, but it’s amusing to compare the final paragraphs of Crispin’s article Tuesday and his last big takeout three weeks earlier.
(Thaksin case raises specter of violence, Feb. 20):
But even if Thaksin and his supporters elect to sustain their campaign of resistance in the landmark verdict’s aftermath, some here sense that Thailand’s political conversation has already shifted beyond Thaksin and towards a more genuine and inclusive discussion of the need for political and social reforms.
(Bloody desperation for Thailand’s reds, March 16):
The lines of democratic division are less clear now and Thailand’s grinding political conflict is best understood as a power struggle between competing elite camps with divergent visions for the country’s post-Bhumibol future. Thaksin’s and the UDD’s calls for democracy and social justice mask a game of non-ideological power politics that his side is clearly losing to the conservative forces that have coalesced against him…
there is no any end game. or shall we say – it is a game with0ut any end. although for many peasants it is not any sort of game at all, but a last drop to unbalance their patience.
while to amart and even to middle class – yes, it is sort of a game.
in fact I bet they are even glad for this whole colorful shows (red, yellow, blue, pink, white, – oh, we shouldn’t forget khaki of course!). because it HELPS them to continue plunder the country, suck blood and fatten their wallets and pockets.
and the more public (sheeple) is being distracted by such shows from the actual course of actions and state of affairs (that economy is in bad shape – one may see Thaicrisis blog for more details), the better it is for Abhisit, Korn and their masters-puppeteers. for all these guys politics are a very profitable business.
for Thai Media too – especially so !
so, business as usual. Game is not required to have an End, rather opposite, it is highly desirable for them to have it that way ! 😉
as for UDD / reds – they are either too weak, or already bought by Amart (even if they don’t realize it yet, even if indirectly). in either case, it is very unlikely that they can accomplish much for a long time (or may be ever). They can’t go on copy PAD, or try launch some sort of Gandhi style movement. neither they are able to confront the brutal force of army & fascist elements of elite and middle class (last year events displayed that). and they still continue loosing on an information front.
I am not sure about the power or even the qualification of a “brahmin” who has conducted the whole curse ritual. but to those familiar with occult / mysticism stuff – this sort of blood sacrifice, if properly done by qualified priest or magician – supposedly should be very powerful.
but then, to all those blood-suckers (amart, elite, etc) who run the show in Thailand, probably it doesn’t matter, this pitiful amount of blood spilled – coz comparing to the steady rivers of blood they regularly suck from their fellow countrymen, even some 1mln cc (promised by UDD) is nothing, a drop in the ocean.
I doubt they would even feel shy or anything.
as evident from official statements already.
let’s see what be the result of such supposedly metaphysical act.
Three judges on the Thaksin case have released their individual judgment to the public. Thanks to the Supreme Court and these Justices.
The three are M. L. Ridhithep Devakul (the only judge who delivered “Not Guilty”), Pitak Kongchan (“Guilty”, with 4.6 M seizure), and Kampol Pusudsawang (one of the two who passed “Guilty” verdict with full seizure).
I meant my comment (@ #20) in a good-natured way, and was taken aback by your hostile response. There’s no shame in making an error, but lashing out when it’s brought to your attention — well, shame on you.
Here’s what I was commenting on. You said:
“My (usually rabid) Red Shirt work-place colleague proclaimed dismay that Thaksin had returned home THE DAY AFTER ‘Judgement Day’. Unusually, said colleague didn’t have much to say when he returned to hospital the next day.”
When WHO returned home and then returned to hospital the next day?
Even given the fact Crispin had his own LM problems in the past – and therefore may be being especially careful not to tread on any toes of Thailand’s powers that be – his analysis does seem largely sound.
One factor he does n’t mention – nor anyone else posted on NM –
is Thailand’s global economic context. At the moment we don’t know if the world economy will continue recovering, go into a double-dip recession, or even a depression.
Given that the 1930’s Depression was a major spur to Thailand’s 1932 overthrow of absolute monarchy, future victory by the Red Shirts is still very much on the cards.
GeGee@#11 – re.”your crusade to form a new Lao “nation”.
I’m not CAMPAIGNING for anything – merely trying to stir up debate on issues or angles which I found neglected on this web-site.
The idea of me – a lone farang – being able to “campaign” on
something like that is ridiculous : no Thai or Lao would seriously listen to me, and that’s certainly not what I’ve done when in either country.
God know it’s a difficult enough struggle to be taken seriously even on this web-site, by the likes of Ralph.
The first sentence I agree with. The second one is silly (“non-ideological … conservative”). The third one is a horrible example of weaselry (“perhaps”).
The blood spilling today was an act of effrontery, cultures aside. Blood is not thrown way because of this triviality (it’s trivial at this stage .. nothing really changes until the big thing happens.).
Horrible mistake. The Aussies who run this website know what I mean.
Am I right in assuming you would prefer he used the word ‘justice’ rather than “righteousness”?
Are the terms really much different though, given the context that this is a predominantly buddhist country and “right” precepts are a core Buddhist teaching?
Could it be that the point people are making is that this shouldn’t happen at all in a modern, non-draconian society? That Thaksin, Suchinda, Chamlong and the whole host of others did it is more fuel to the fire that it shouldn’t happen now – and that the prostration keeps on happening perhaps makes a good motif for these cyclical political dramas.
Par. 13: Cuts in education spending do not always translate to setbacks or stalling of government’s plans. The implementation of Thailand’s 2009 national education reform demonstrates the country’s intention to reinforce its efforts achieving quality education. (emphasis added)
Par. 14: “The most worrying of all is education quality,” Prime Minister Abhisit Vejajiva said at the May 200 seminar on the direction of Thailand’s educational reform. Despite remaining education issues, Thailand has made notable progress, says the 2010 report. (emphasis added).
GeGee: After wasting 75 years, at last Thailand has a PM who is serious about education reform and doing something about it.
The next election could be very interesting if Abhisit & his conservative forces are really doing so well – lets hope all parties accept the results – that would be a pleaseant change 🙂
To Tarrin at 36:
Sure, but don’t forget Thaksin’s ‘bag man’ i.e. Suriya (Mr. CTX scandal) Jungrungroongreangkit – fromer Thai Rak Thai Secretary General. He seems to have enough money to buy EVERYONE off – including the media.
It’s not what I see in my travels around Thailand.
I see people in need.
Gegee
Yes, in Srisaket this is what I see
I see the postive influence of Thaksin in some areas
but other are not touched by his populist policies
Khmer populations who predominate along the border are generally the worst off – so who is coming up with social policies in an almost middle income country to change this situation
no red or yellow shirts, no conservatives, no-one!
In Marc’s well trodden areas of the south, admittedly a democrat stronghold, where are the social policies, Thailand is a failed state in terms of equity and disparities. Thaksin was not going to change this.
Today’s voodoo blood rites (to honor Thaksin) according to The Nation: ” . . .The red-shirts then marched from Phan Fa bridge, leaving about 4pm – with the blood in twelve 5-litre bottles, two large buckets, and 50 syringes – and arrived at the Government House shortly before 5pm for the ritual.
At 4.50pm, Jatuporn Prompan, a UDD leader, a man dressed in white as a Brahman, and another man holding a Buddha statue in his arms, walked to Gate No 2 where a religious rite was performed. The brahman cited spells and incantations and poured an amount of blood in front of the gate.
After that the brahman took some of the blood from the ground to write letters on the concrete posts of the gate. . .”
Yes Nicholas Farrelly, Lord Buddha has so far been unavailable for comment. How could he? The Lord Buddha still could not control himself with laughter at Thailand’s bloody insane political theater!
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A red show of strength, but then what?
I am not at all impressed nor surprised with UDD being “peaceful protest and actually behave”.
I think it would be more correct to say that : one must be impressed by “Blue Shirts” (aka Sutheps & Newin’s thugs), and PAD (disguised as reds) or any other “third hand” (army’s in disguise perhaps? ) showing quite a lot of restrain and NOT arranging some provocation, as was last year – the REAL reason why “Songkran violence” happened.
I wonder – Abhisit & Suthep have decided to gain some face this time and avoid creating the situation which they could use as a reason for another heavy crackdown ? 😉
very much unlike Suthep Thugsuban ! 😀
what’s on his mind, or perhaps he still keeps up sleeve some surprise?
but nevertheless – it is the actual reason why so far it has been peaceful. red-shirts though even last year would not have started to riot – if gov. provocateurs wouldn’t pre-arrange the whole plan for crackdown and baited reds first in Pattaya, then repeatedly in Bangkok.
Crispin on Thailand’s bloody feud
There’s no sin in inconsistency, but it’s amusing to compare the final paragraphs of Crispin’s article Tuesday and his last big takeout three weeks earlier.
(Thaksin case raises specter of violence, Feb. 20):
But even if Thaksin and his supporters elect to sustain their campaign of resistance in the landmark verdict’s aftermath, some here sense that Thailand’s political conversation has already shifted beyond Thaksin and towards a more genuine and inclusive discussion of the need for political and social reforms.
(Bloody desperation for Thailand’s reds, March 16):
The lines of democratic division are less clear now and Thailand’s grinding political conflict is best understood as a power struggle between competing elite camps with divergent visions for the country’s post-Bhumibol future. Thaksin’s and the UDD’s calls for democracy and social justice mask a game of non-ideological power politics that his side is clearly losing to the conservative forces that have coalesced against him…
Red soi, Red city: A brief commentary from the streets
there is no any end game. or shall we say – it is a game with0ut any end. although for many peasants it is not any sort of game at all, but a last drop to unbalance their patience.
while to amart and even to middle class – yes, it is sort of a game.
in fact I bet they are even glad for this whole colorful shows (red, yellow, blue, pink, white, – oh, we shouldn’t forget khaki of course!). because it HELPS them to continue plunder the country, suck blood and fatten their wallets and pockets.
and the more public (sheeple) is being distracted by such shows from the actual course of actions and state of affairs (that economy is in bad shape – one may see Thaicrisis blog for more details), the better it is for Abhisit, Korn and their masters-puppeteers. for all these guys politics are a very profitable business.
for Thai Media too – especially so !
so, business as usual. Game is not required to have an End, rather opposite, it is highly desirable for them to have it that way ! 😉
as for UDD / reds – they are either too weak, or already bought by Amart (even if they don’t realize it yet, even if indirectly). in either case, it is very unlikely that they can accomplish much for a long time (or may be ever). They can’t go on copy PAD, or try launch some sort of Gandhi style movement. neither they are able to confront the brutal force of army & fascist elements of elite and middle class (last year events displayed that). and they still continue loosing on an information front.
all this doesn’t look so promising for them.
Crispin on Thailand’s bloody feud
I am not sure about the power or even the qualification of a “brahmin” who has conducted the whole curse ritual. but to those familiar with occult / mysticism stuff – this sort of blood sacrifice, if properly done by qualified priest or magician – supposedly should be very powerful.
but then, to all those blood-suckers (amart, elite, etc) who run the show in Thailand, probably it doesn’t matter, this pitiful amount of blood spilled – coz comparing to the steady rivers of blood they regularly suck from their fellow countrymen, even some 1mln cc (promised by UDD) is nothing, a drop in the ocean.
I doubt they would even feel shy or anything.
as evident from official statements already.
let’s see what be the result of such supposedly metaphysical act.
Open thread on red protests
Bravo!!!, WLH.
A red show of strength, but then what?
Submarine, it sounds like you’re wearing “red underwear” (Thaksin’s analogy for people who’re secretly suporting the red shirts).
Making sense of the verdict
Patiwat
Three judges on the Thaksin case have released their individual judgment to the public. Thanks to the Supreme Court and these Justices.
The three are M. L. Ridhithep Devakul (the only judge who delivered “Not Guilty”), Pitak Kongchan (“Guilty”, with 4.6 M seizure), and Kampol Pusudsawang (one of the two who passed “Guilty” verdict with full seizure).
You can download their full judgments at http://www.bangkokbiznews.com
In Thai only.
Thai style democracy?
Frank Lee at #23:
I meant my comment (@ #20) in a good-natured way, and was taken aback by your hostile response. There’s no shame in making an error, but lashing out when it’s brought to your attention — well, shame on you.
Here’s what I was commenting on. You said:
“My (usually rabid) Red Shirt work-place colleague proclaimed dismay that Thaksin had returned home THE DAY AFTER ‘Judgement Day’. Unusually, said colleague didn’t have much to say when he returned to hospital the next day.”
When WHO returned home and then returned to hospital the next day?
Crispin on Thailand’s bloody feud
Even given the fact Crispin had his own LM problems in the past – and therefore may be being especially careful not to tread on any toes of Thailand’s powers that be – his analysis does seem largely sound.
One factor he does n’t mention – nor anyone else posted on NM –
is Thailand’s global economic context. At the moment we don’t know if the world economy will continue recovering, go into a double-dip recession, or even a depression.
Given that the 1930’s Depression was a major spur to Thailand’s 1932 overthrow of absolute monarchy, future victory by the Red Shirts is still very much on the cards.
Red soi, Red city: A brief commentary from the streets
GeGee@#11 – re.”your crusade to form a new Lao “nation”.
I’m not CAMPAIGNING for anything – merely trying to stir up debate on issues or angles which I found neglected on this web-site.
The idea of me – a lone farang – being able to “campaign” on
something like that is ridiculous : no Thai or Lao would seriously listen to me, and that’s certainly not what I’ve done when in either country.
God know it’s a difficult enough struggle to be taken seriously even on this web-site, by the likes of Ralph.
Thai style democracy?
George@#40 – in 1992 there was no dog present when they prostrated before HMK !
Crispin on Thailand’s bloody feud
The first sentence I agree with. The second one is silly (“non-ideological … conservative”). The third one is a horrible example of weaselry (“perhaps”).
The blood spilling today was an act of effrontery, cultures aside. Blood is not thrown way because of this triviality (it’s trivial at this stage .. nothing really changes until the big thing happens.).
Horrible mistake. The Aussies who run this website know what I mean.
Crispin on Thailand’s bloody feud
Cogent and very timely: Thankyou.
Am I right in assuming you would prefer he used the word ‘justice’ rather than “righteousness”?
Are the terms really much different though, given the context that this is a predominantly buddhist country and “right” precepts are a core Buddhist teaching?
Thai style democracy?
Hi Dad,
Could it be that the point people are making is that this shouldn’t happen at all in a modern, non-draconian society? That Thaksin, Suchinda, Chamlong and the whole host of others did it is more fuel to the fire that it shouldn’t happen now – and that the prostration keeps on happening perhaps makes a good motif for these cyclical political dramas.
best wishes,
Elroy
Red soi, Red city: A brief commentary from the streets
To GeGee at 36:
UNESCO Report: ‘Coping with the crisis’ ,
Bangkok Post/Education Section, 9.3.2010
Par. 13: Cuts in education spending do not always translate to setbacks or stalling of government’s plans. The implementation of Thailand’s 2009 national education reform demonstrates the country’s intention to reinforce its efforts achieving quality education. (emphasis added)
Par. 14: “The most worrying of all is education quality,” Prime Minister Abhisit Vejajiva said at the May 200 seminar on the direction of Thailand’s educational reform. Despite remaining education issues, Thailand has made notable progress, says the 2010 report. (emphasis added).
GeGee: After wasting 75 years, at last Thailand has a PM who is serious about education reform and doing something about it.
Crispin on Thailand’s bloody feud
You hit the nail on the head, Shawn. Great article.
Crispin on Thailand’s bloody feud
The next election could be very interesting if Abhisit & his conservative forces are really doing so well – lets hope all parties accept the results – that would be a pleaseant change 🙂
Thai style democracy?
To Tarrin at 36:
Sure, but don’t forget Thaksin’s ‘bag man’ i.e. Suriya (Mr. CTX scandal) Jungrungroongreangkit – fromer Thai Rak Thai Secretary General. He seems to have enough money to buy EVERYONE off – including the media.
Red soi, Red city: A brief commentary from the streets
It’s not what I see in my travels around Thailand.
I see people in need.
Gegee
Yes, in Srisaket this is what I see
I see the postive influence of Thaksin in some areas
but other are not touched by his populist policies
Khmer populations who predominate along the border are generally the worst off – so who is coming up with social policies in an almost middle income country to change this situation
no red or yellow shirts, no conservatives, no-one!
In Marc’s well trodden areas of the south, admittedly a democrat stronghold, where are the social policies, Thailand is a failed state in terms of equity and disparities. Thaksin was not going to change this.
Crispin on Thailand’s bloody feud
Today’s voodoo blood rites (to honor Thaksin) according to The Nation: ” . . .The red-shirts then marched from Phan Fa bridge, leaving about 4pm – with the blood in twelve 5-litre bottles, two large buckets, and 50 syringes – and arrived at the Government House shortly before 5pm for the ritual.
At 4.50pm, Jatuporn Prompan, a UDD leader, a man dressed in white as a Brahman, and another man holding a Buddha statue in his arms, walked to Gate No 2 where a religious rite was performed. The brahman cited spells and incantations and poured an amount of blood in front of the gate.
After that the brahman took some of the blood from the ground to write letters on the concrete posts of the gate. . .”
Yes Nicholas Farrelly, Lord Buddha has so far been unavailable for comment. How could he? The Lord Buddha still could not control himself with laughter at Thailand’s bloody insane political theater!